Thanks yoby. I just think it's strange that he's had nothing to say for all of this time. |
So I attended AXPONA 2019 on Friday morning. I visited with Walter in his exhibition room at the show.
CORE POWER TECHNOLOGIES A/V, EMERALD PHYSICS AND LIVING SYSTEMS AUDIO
(Room 478): So this was another treat, largely for the A’gon Forum
members. A production version of the CPT Deep Core product was
showcased, along with the CPT 1800 conditioner. The small LSA monitors
presented an impressive 35 Hz frequency response (shaking the walls)
owing to a patented, double magnet driver design that enables twice the
excursion of a typical driver.
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@celander thanks for the tit-bit. Nice to hear you describe production versions of the products many had issues with. Walter made good. I hope he does well. |
celander, thanks for the EP room update |
I’ll post pics of the Deep=Core spec sheet when I get a chance. Walter is offering AXPONA special discounts.
I thanked Walter for stepping into the void to acquire the CPT assets, citing y’all here on this thread. The new entity is called CPT A/V. |
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@celander ,How does one order Equi=Core 1800? Are they still making them?
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From Walter at Underwood HiFi |
Thank You @jackd. Will reach out to them.
Wondering how the Equi=Core 1800 compares with something from IsoTek or Torus. Any experience folks? |
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@celander
What was the
AXPONA special discount price? |
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Based upon what I heard is the current design of the CPT-1800, I would not recommend it. The duplex outlets remained serially connected (daisy-chained).
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The Keces unit is another option. Their LPS's are getting glowing reviews. |
Guys, need your opinions here - a couple of weeks ago got the latest version of 1800. Got the piece, connected everything, and since it wasn’t able to work sufficiently with my main amp (2400w max) I put my Bat 255se (1500 max) on it.
Everything was ok until yesterday evening - I turned off the amp and there was this loud cracking sound from my left speaker and that was it, the amp died. It still turns on, but I can see from the vent holes that the left side is dead. No lights no anything.
Having said that, could the EQ be the culprit? The amp is just 5 years old.
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@calander, I was told that all of the current 1800's are now series wired and a larger gauge wire is being used. This was done when Walter took over the company.
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@hasmarto By any chance did you have the REL subwoofer that is listed in your system description connected to the 255se at speaker-level? And if so were you connecting the ground (black) wire from the sub to a negative output terminal of the amp?
If so, since the balanced amp has a full amplitude signal on its negative output terminal I’m guessing that the damage might have resulted from the combination of supplying the amp with balanced power via the 1800 and the fact that the full amplitude signal on one of the amp’s negative output terminals would have been connected to AC safety ground via some presumably low impedance in the sub. I can’t fully explain that, but that’s my hunch if the sub was connected as I’ve described.
Good luck. Regards,
-- Al
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Hi Al,
Thanks for your response. The Bat was on the mids/highs, and my new Audio Analogue Donizetti was on the bass, just a regular connection, no active crossovers.
The plan was to get a tube pre for the AA, until that I did that “bi-amping” out of curiosity, I asked both amp manufacturers and the cable manufacturer, and they said if I like the sound then it’s ok. I failed to mention that I have a sub.
About the sub - it was connected to the big AA amp, positives on the amp’s speaker posts positive and negative to the preamp ground. On the sub its speakon cable was on the balanced out, but my tech knowledge stops right there. What do you think?
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@hasmarto
I see that your Donizetti amplifier is the Anniversary Edition, which is described as being fully balanced. So you were correct in not connecting the sub’s ground wire to a negative output terminal of the amp. However the manual for the sub indicates that its balanced input is single-channel, and when a single sub is connected to differential/balanced outputs of a stereo amp the unbalanced input of the sub should be used, with the connections to the amp and preamp being made as you have done. (Or alternatively, with the sub’s ground wire connected to a chassis screw on the amp).
By using the balanced input of the sub in that arrangement the sub would be responding to the difference between the amp’s left and right channel outputs, rather than to their sum as it should be. Which would adversely affect sonics, but I don’t think would cause any damage.
I presume, though, that the AA amp was not being powered via the 1800, and I’m guessing that the sub was not being powered via the 1800 either. While the BAT amp and the rest of the system was being powered via the 1800, and the ground of the sub was connected to the preamp. I’m not sure if the net result of such an arrangement might have been conducive to the BAT being damaged, but having complex ground paths between the components in combination with balanced power being supplied to part but not all of the system, with the system including a sub and two fully balanced amps, suggests to me that it is possible.
If I am correct in assuming, though, that neither the AA amp nor the sub was being powered by the 1800, while the preamp, the BAT amp, and the front end of the system were being powered by the 1800, I’m thinking that connecting the sub’s ground wire to a chassis screw on the AA amp might have been a safer approach than connecting it to the preamp. (As I mentioned, the sub’s manual mentions both alternatives for connecting the ground wire when connecting to a stereo amp having balanced outputs). Although there are a few amp designs for which the result might be a hum problem if the connection is made to a chassis screw.
Regards,
-- Al
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Thanks for your detailed response, Al.
You are right - neither the sub nor the AA were connected to the 1800.
First thing for me at this point is to repair the Bat.
What could be damaged in it in your opinion? |
@hasmarto Perhaps/hopefully all that has failed are the two internal fuses on the affected channel. I see the following statement in the manual:
Two internal fuses are mounted on each of the two amplifier circuit boards. These fuses
have two green LED’s associated with them. Both LED’s should be lit when unit is ON and
operating properly. Failure of either of these LED’s to light indicates that the corresponding
fuse is open.
Beyond that possibility, I'm not sure. Good luck. Regards, -- Al |
I really appreciate your suggestion, Al, the fuses are indeed out.
Can’t wait until the stores are open;-)
Thanks again.
Erik |
Wow, pretty much read this whole thread. It reads like a movie almost. Hopefully, there's a happy ending for all involved. I can say I've purchased a couple of products from Underwood and never had any experiences other than completely positive. I also purchased a couple of used products from Mark (including a CPT EC150) and he has delivered and been very responsive. This sounds like an American story unfolding... small company, successful product, struggling with success and some overpromising plus bad circumstances, possibly some redemption and maybe a happy ending? I hope so as that's good for the hobby and all involved. |
@abd1 and others,
I am still waiting for the Deep Cores, which should be coming soon, according to Underwood Wally.
My CPT 1800's are still working properly, so I can't complain about that, but having to wait so long for the Deep Cores is a bit off putting.
Mark is a good salesman, but he definitely overextended himself, and alienated a good many customers. Had he been more forthcoming/realistic about product offerings, I think he would have made it.
Bob |
Has anyone tested their Equi=Core 1800, its input and output voltages?
My unit outputs 4+ volts higher than the input. i.e. input from wall is 120V output is 124v to 125v. To me that is bad. |
Balanced power tends to do that for some reason which a technically minded person could explain.
My 1800 and my Equi=Tech 2Q does the same.
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Lak, how much difference between input & output of your 1800, thanks. With load it decreases a bit. Increase of voltage will increase sound compression which is not as natural. I prefer sound being spaced out as recorded. |
Has anyone gotten a Deep Core, yet.
Wally emailed me a while back saying they should become available by the end of the month.
B |
Your gear may and should be voltage regulated so you should not hear any difference with a 3-5 vac change. Voltage from our home outlets often vary that much throughout the day and night. . |
Bill (Grannyring), keep in mind that many and probably most power amps provide unregulated DC voltages to their output stages, and in many cases to their small signal stages as well. Also, in the case of some tube power amps filament voltages are unregulated, and in those cases AC voltage variations can have particularly significant effects.
Also, in the case of components having fully regulated DC supplies a lesser effect that I suppose might sometimes be audibly significant is that an increase in AC voltage will increase the temperature of the parts that do the regulation. Which in turn would slightly increase the overall temperature within the component, perhaps with audible albeit subtle sonic consequences.
And perhaps these kinds of effects are factors in the many reports we see of better sonics at night than during the day, in addition to AC power presumably being "cleaner" at night than during the day.
I would be hesitant, though, to generalize as the other poster did in saying that higher voltage = compressed sound. I would expect the effects of higher voltage to be component dependent, with some components sounding better and some sounding worse, and with the differences also depending on the specific voltages that are involved.
Regarding why the reported output voltages of balanced power units apparently tend to be higher than their input voltages, that would of course be a function of the turns ratio between the secondary and primary windings of their transformers. I wouldn’t want to speculate, though, on why the manufacturers have apparently chosen turns ratios that result in outputs being higher than inputs.
Best regards,
-- Al
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Thanks Al. My real point is the outlet’s AC voltage varies that much anyway. At least every home I have
lived in. It varies that much at day and evening. Also, in my past tube builds that have voltage regulated B+ power supplies, they held the VDC ROCK STEADY and that does indeed help the output. The tube filaments are impacted a tiny bit with 3-5 volts swings, but really nothing one would hear the vast majority of the time. At least I have not. I think the AC is simply more “dirty” at peak times and that’s what causes our rigs to sound not quite as good. |
@sundial8, input 124.6 output 129.6, hope this helps.
Personally, I have not detected any sound compression. |
@LAK, thanks for the info. In my case, it is the source that is affected with different voltages. Also with V=IR, higher voltage means less current going to the AMP. I have taken the 1800 out of the system and I like it better. |
Got a phone message from Walter that my Deep Core will be shipping today. |
I got an email from Wally providing Tracking numbers for my Deep Cores, as well.
B |
would be very interested in your thoughts after an appropriate warm up period.. |
@calloway ,
I would be glad to oblige.
The Deep Cores are supposed to be inserted before the Equi Cores.
So, I will do just that, and let you know.
B |
I can't believe it, but I got a Deep Core in the mail from Walter today. I haven't been following the thread the last few months, so this was kind of a shock. I pre-ordered early on, and wrote the Deep Core off as a big mistake. Big thanks to Walter for coming into a very messy situation and taking care of the customers!!! I will put this unit into action and see what happens. Anyone else receive a Deep Core?
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The Deep Core can be used before the Equi Cores, after the Equi Cores, or independently by itself. Your mileage may vary. |
By Monday we have shipped 10 Deep Cores with the last 5 120 volt units shipping within 2 weeks. That will take care of all the buyers who paid and did not get units from the old company. 220/240v units are still a few months away.
The Deep Core is designed to go before the Equi=Core and can be used before any 15 amp or smaller line conditioner. It does not have to be a Core Power unit.
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Oh, by the way, all the Equi=Core 1800’s were previously shipped.
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I am so glad to hear that Walter's company has shipped out the Deep Cores. I had a feeling he would come through. I met him at Axpona a few years ago and he just struck me as a no BS kind of guy who had integrity and would deliver! I cant wait to hear the feedback on the Deep Core. I am a very happy owner of a heavily modified CPT 1800.
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tuffy72561 I agree. Walter is a great guy to do business with. I've completed transactions with him for many years. He is a man of his word.
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Kudos to Walter for shipping out the Deep Cores and the 1800's to make everyone whole. I don't think he was obligated (legally) to do this as he only purchased the Core Power assets and none of the liabilities. I wonder how many of the other potential CP buyers would have done the same? Thank you Walter! |
Hi, just a few initial words on the Deepcore. The unit takes 500hrs to break in (per Walter). I have the control set to max currently, I'll adjust it over time and see if i can find a sweet spot.
I've listened to some music and watched some streaming Amazon (Corner Gas! great show) through the stereo (stereo components & TV plug into knock-off Chinese equicore, then into Deepcore, then AC outlet). I have an easily audible DC offset that comes through the stereo that i hope to resolve one day soon. The addition of the Deepcore to the knock-off equicore has taken hum from the mark Levinson 331 down to 5-10% range, almost gone. I'm sure if i were to put in a dedicated line, the problem would be resolved, this is a great option for folks who need to resolve DC noise. I remember reading through the old threads folks talking about the quality of the picture of their TV improving. I agree I'm noticing an improvement in the picture, but also all the background sound effects of the TV show (people talking in background, birds chirping) comes through very clearly now. Also, one of my mid range drivers has been distorting and is starting to go. over the last few days with the Deepcore in use, I'm noticing almost no distortion from the mid range driver, i'm not sure if that means less nosie, or less power going to the speaker? Having this unit in my system is not subtle, and really helps to kill DC noise, and possibly is attenuating power when the control is maxed out. This weekend I'll spin some records, and put this in front of my really noisy 5 watt class A guitar amp, and try to add a bit more to the conversation. Thanks again to Walter for making this right. Despite everything i hope Mark is well and his health is improving. |
Walter is a class act! I received my Deep Core last week and have just a few hours on it. It feeds a Equi-Core 1800 powering a PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell, two Emerald Physics EP100.2SE, EP 2.7's as well as a few other components. The drop in the noise level is significant (almost non-existent) and I am looking forward to what it does once it is broken in. Thank you Walter. |
I got mine a week ago.
Now, I just need some time to get them incorporated.
B |
Wow 500 hrs of burn in. I got mine a week or two ago and notice it does clean things up while staying natural. Need to give it more time as I'v been changing things around so haven't had it in the loop everyday since I got it. I have the dial all the way to the left as I notice it sounds a little too thin though a little more detailed as I turn it right. |
I only have about 50 hours on my Deep Core and I am very impressed so far! The soundstage has grown quite a bit, depth wise and horizontally, while the bass response has also improved. My system is quieter and low leveling listening has become even more satisfying. Hard to fathom right now what things will sound like at the 500 hour mark. Thus far, I prefer the knob turned furthest to the left, as this gives the best response. This is a keeper! |
Hi t_ramey: I know that you use a lot of Perfect Path Tech products in your setup. Have you noticed any incompatibility issues when using the Deep Core. I know from experience that other tweaks don't play well PPT products. Jeff |
