Grimm MU1 Streamer - Really "The Best"?

For those that own the Grimm MU1, what are your experiences with changes in the power cable?  My findings is that it didn’t make much of a difference in the sound. I currently use the Kubala Sosna Emotion power cord (a slightly warm cable imo). My friend lent me his Nordost Odin 2 and I didn’t hear much of a difference.  Changes in the aes/ebu cable however, resulted in big changes!

@calgarian5355 

My experience is consistent with yours. My aes cable is a 1.5m Shunyata Sigma v2. I have a Final Touch Audio power cable.

Same results here as well.

I've only tested my MU1 with the generic power cable and with my Audioquest Hurricane so my experience is limited.  But I can hear a very big difference going from generic to the Hurricane. 

As an aside, I've read a few initial accounts of the sound of the Innuos Pulsar on WBF, as this product is finally available.  Of interest to me, is that a few have said the sound is dense, "bottom-up", full-bodied. One poster compared it with his Zenith Mk2 + PhoenixUSB and also supported that finding. 

Which I find very interesting as 1) I've found that I don't think I gravitate to that particular profile, based on my preferences, and 2) That is not how I'd characterize the Innuos Zenith Mk 3 + PhoenixUSB at all (light-on-its feet, airy, expansive when compared to others I've had in my system).

@metaldetektor , I’d be interested in your assessment of how the new PBD differs in character from the MU1?  Those would be interesting to compare. But my journey on this front is over….for now!

Hi @nyev - I don’t have anything to add to the Hifi Advice comparison of the Grimm and Playback Designs piece, other than to say it’s consistent with my experience. I’ve been using the Playback with a stock Roon Nucleus and I’ve been very happy with it. Both the Grimm and Playback are excellent, I’m glad to hear you are having a good time!

Hi @nyev - Sorry if this was stated previously, but I am wondering if you were comparing the MU1 (running Roon) to the Innuous Zenith’s native player or Zenith running Roon?

Reason for asking is I find the running Roon (core or end point) to be a bit smeared and narrow sound stage on my Zenith Mk3, and the Zenith native player to be more 3D, wider, deeper and a tad bit of mid range dip with vocals enhanced and out front, which I think you noted in one of your posts, so I assumed you were comparing the MU1 with Roon to the Zenith with native player.

And given your conclusion that the MU1 was the keeper has prompted my interest in testing the MU1 too, as I like Roon for additional music information presented and clicking through for music discovery and would rather be using Roon as my primary player.

Thanks, Neil

Just bought an MU-1.  I've only had it 36 hours so I'm going to refraim from drawing conclusions but initial impression is very, very positive.  

I spent most of the morning reading this thread quickly and there is so much information in it that I had to skip over some of the bunny trails it goes down and will probably go back through it a bit later.  But great info here.  I especially appreciated the discussions by @nyev and @ghasley .

My old streamer is an Innuos Zenith MkIII.  My DAC in a Chord DAVE and with the old streamer I use the Chord M-scaler so count me in the pro-upscaling camp.  I'm not going to sell this gear yet as initial impressions can fade.  I'll put it back in service in a week or so and that should confirm.  Of course with the MU-1 I don't use the Mscaler.  Interestingly I was able to remove the following equipment from my rack:  1.  Innuos streamer.  2  Chord Mscaler.  3  NUC with Roon core running on it.  4.  Farad LPS for M scaler.  5.  LPS for NUC.  

I don't have a good AES cable so I'm listening to a $50 amazon cable I could get overnight.  I decided last Sunday to look at the Grimm.  60 minutes later I decided to try one, and 2 hours later I had bought one used. It shipped Monday, arrived Wed, and I'm posting this on Fri.  I have a better cable from DH Labs coming tomorrow but will look at higher end cables.  But just the step up to DH Labs from amazon should be big.

I pulled the fuse and the Grimm has a 500mA input fuse which is very small (sizing of fuses by OEMs is more Kentucky windage than science).   It is my opinion that this one is sized very tight to the load (even though the load is very small).  That's the long way of saying that I recommend a fuse upgrade.  I upgraded the fuse this morning and the improved detail and dynamics was obvious. 

I'll post more after I've had more time to listen.  I updated my system in my profile this morning so you can see what other gear I'm running if you care.

Jerry

Hi Carlsbad2, now that the MU-1 has a few more hours of use, do you have any follow-on comments or preferences. 

I have the Dave, M-Scaller and Zenith MkIII and even though I prefer user experience with Roon, I prefer the SQ of the Innuos native player. A move to the MU-1 interests me as others have preference the MU-1 with Roon over the Zenith with the native player. Given you were using the Chord Dave, I wonder if that was your conclusion or if you ended-up on a different route. Thanks, Neil

Also just got an MU-1 (replacing a Lumin x1) into a Weiss 501. Just thrilled. 4x over sampling! Who knew? Darling where you been?
My wife came into listen ( second time this month…stop the presses) and without me saying anything asked why it sounded so good. Buy her a drink.

It’s a better Roon box with playback that is more enveloping and all the usual superlatives.

Smoke ‘em if you got ‘em.

@wsrrsw 

Congratulations on acquiring MU1. Do you hear appreciable difference between native and 4x up sampled file? 

@lalitk Yes. When toggling between native and 4x it’s quite obvious. Have the JCat feeding it. I should try it without but nah.
Hope all’s well with you.

@wsrrsw 

Of course you do, I was just curious so I asked. In any case, enjoy! 

@lalitk A public shout out to you. You have been very helpful and I very much appetite it. 

I hate to say this, but Grimm was totally absent in CAF. I looked for it. Zero. I think the fad is dying up pretty quick. I love to be proven wrong. All the OG Grimm enthusiasts I know gave up on it. Admittedly my sample size is small 

Hi Thyname,

The Grimm MU1 was at the CAF in the GTT Audio room. Bill was running it with Mola Mola gear and Vivid speakers. I wasn’t crazy about the sound it was a little bright. Maybe it was the Class D amps?
I have the Grimm MU1 and Mola Mola Tambaqui dac in my setup and the sound is wonderful!
 

Ah… I was at Bill’s room twice. I missed it. Maybe because Bill kept bringing up the Mola Mola only, especially the new amp (or preamp, sorry I don’t quite recall)

There were at least two Grimm MU1's at CAF.  Bill w GTT showed his with the Makua Preamp with onboard Tambaqui DAC.  The amps were the new Percas, using two stereo amps in a vertically biwired configuration.  I did not find the Vivid Giyas bright.

There was a second Mu1 being shown in room 726, M101 cables.  He used it to demonstrate the effectiveness of his ethernet cable.

@mapman my map man…

“There was a second Mu1 being shown in room 726, M101 cables. He used it to demonstrate the effectiveness of his ethernet cable.”
@fastfreight

Now that’s interesting…Isn’t MU1 immune to Audiophile LAN cables?

hello @lalitk my answer is a resounding hmmmm....

@thyname 

I think the fad is dying up pretty quick. I love to be proven wrong. All the OG Grimm enthusiasts I know gave up on it. Admittedly my sample size is small 

Most of the Grimm users with whom I’m acquainted have happily hopped off the merry-go-round (and spent less time on the audio forums) and are just listening to and enjoying their music. I’m thrilled with my Grimm now for around two years. It feeds a DCS Bartok Apex via a Shunyata Sigma v2 AES/EBU cable. Absolutely sublime and natural sounding to my ears.

@lalitk 

Now that’s interesting…Isn’t MU1 immune to Audiophile LAN cables?

I believe the Grimm is less sensitive to ethernet cables than one might assume. I believe it is essentially agnostic if provided a stable and reliable connection and data stream.

@lalitk , When I got my Grimm I had already decided I liked the Muon Pro Filter System.

With the Grimm, I tried it with and without the Muon.  The improvement was more subtle, yet I did hear an improvement with the Muon.  I think this acts similar to a fancy Ethernet cable, no?

@thyname I agree.   The Grimm sounds great, runs Roon core, is very stable and boots quickly.   

Hello @ghasley @thyname @lalitk @snopro @wsrrsw , Happy Holidays!!! 

So somethings about my Grimm MU1.  Interesting how many say it is immune to different ethernet and or power cables.   Also very interesting was in the M101 room at CAF. Lubomir was demonstrating the positive effects  (improvement in sound) of inserting his 1.5m ethernet cable going into the streamer or DAC.  But in his demonstration, he bypassed the Grimm to show off his cable.  Why? Because the mu1 uses a generic internal ethernet cable.  In a sense this generic cable 'undoes' the benefits of using an expensive ethernet cable into it.

So, you are thinking, (at least I was) can we replace the internal ethernet cable in the mu1?  Lubomir liked this question and was already on to it.  So I sent him my unit, and he replaced the stock cable with an identical length of his ethernet cable (M101).

I received it back last night and have only listened for about an hour.  But, it is astonishing!  The soundstage has opened, and I can now pinpoint locations of performers even better than before.  The attack and dynamics are formidable, with great bass and yet still organic and smooth.  For those who said the Grimm was too laid back and polite, say that no more with this modification. The highs are uber crisp.  It is though the music jumps out at you.

The Grimm MU1 is indeed a great component. 

I will wait for fatigue free ten hour listen report…..but promising

Yes I have considered this...I just turned it down a bit.  It honestly seemed louder.

But harshness does not enhance the soundstage as here.  Usually the opposite.

@fastfreight  Now look what you have done! Won't the mod void the warranty? But pease PM me your guy who did the mod. 

I recently had a hiccup w/ the Grimm MU1. It stoped working correctly and all that was needed was an over the web re-set done by the, we’re on it, folks in the Netherlands. I had a delightful call with Eelco Grimm. Love it when the owner is in the store. If needed, Grimm support is topnotch.  All it takes is a single one or a zero to go off and go off it did  Service on both sides of the Ocean was fantastic. John in California did considerable hand holding and presto. Also praise can be said of Lumin service. I had an issue and got high level resolving help. Hint, always ask your dealer for a name.

My network off Agon is absolutely gah gah over the M2. Over the years I have heard a lot of extolling of stuff but the M2 seems to be universally drooled over. Better than the Chord Dave, Esoteric Grandioso D1X w/ bumbled with a high end streamer (just random examples)? That much better?  Smoke 'em if you got 'em. 

Agree overhyped detail usually destroys image depth… as i said hopeful !,,, ;-)

Hey @wsrrsw !  Yes love the customer service.  Mr Eelco just emailed me back personally about the ability to run core on either the MU1 or MU2 and use the other as Roon endpoint.  This is coming soon. (certified Roon endpoint).  Yes if the MU2 is all that people say, it could even replace say my Makua with onboard Tambaqui DAC and a separate streamer (I have two systems).  But being better than Grimm - Tambaqui combo is still to be seen!  I will pm you with who did the mod.  And yes, I am sure voids warranty...but the new cable plugs at both ends with RJ45 so not impossible to undo.

@fastfreight I have a second system just set up. (need to update systems page but that's not pressing) The room isn't a nice as system and needs treatment.  How nice would it be to have the MU2 or MU1 ac the core? KiSS system set up too with a three in one component.

A friend of mine got the Grimm MU2: 

According to him, best DAC he ever had. Yes, he is male gender 😂🤦‍♂️. And that thing is also a Roon Core (server) and streamer as well

@thyname

The ‘best’ is so subjective…for some folks, one box streamer/DAC can provide very compelling and satisfying listening experience.

@fastfreight

I am happy for you, kudos to you for thinking outside the box. Enjoy!

Happy Holidays to everyone.

@lalitk : happy holidays my friend

Hello @lalitk, I only went for it.  Kudos to Lubomir of M101.

@fastfreight

Of course, cable designers deserves just as much praise for being on board. I am attempting a similar upgrade with @richtruss, he has graciously agreed to built a custom data cable for my N30SA.

How are you guys comparing ethernet cables for the Mu1? 

Hi @ghasley I had a new internal ethernet cable replaced in my MU1.

We took out the stock generic 1 foot cable and replaced it with a M101Ethernet cable.

@fastfreight but how are you comparing the stock cable to the M101? 

Hi @ghasley,

I can't swap from the stock to new.

So my comparison is remembering it before, then a week away, then hearing it now.

Thanks @fastfreight 

No it’s not the best I have heard by a mile.

Taiko Extreme best Sonics.

Aurender W20SE my favorite all around 

Aurender N30 best if you have the space for 2 chassis.

@buickwilson I didn't mean to ignore your question. you didn't put @ in front of my name so I didn't get a notification.

So long term I've decided the grimm is indeed more to my liking than the Innuos  Since, I have replace my DAVE with a Lampizator Golden Gate 3 and the Grimm is a great match with the Lampizator.

Putting the Innuos back in service I don't find it inferior at all, just not as good.  

Additionally, the Grimm has the onboard upscaling and onbaord Roon core which is convenient.  one downside to the grimm is no remote.  You can log into the grimm using its IP address but not always convenient.  there are some functions, such as software update, that have to be done at the unit so if it is low in your rack you are on your knees.

Jerry

@carlsbad2

may I suggest you look up the definition of ‘inferior’? Also, using InnuOS in a Roon setting is never going to do it justice. InnuOS’ main attraction is the use of its Sense operating system which requires less processing power and as a result produces less noise than Roon based systems. There is a formung consenses that Sense beats Roon in SQ

I agree in my limited tests: Mac mini running Roon vs Euphony Stylus and Euphony sounded better; Innuos Zenith MkIII Sense native player vs Roon and preferred the Sense player over Roon.

My conclusion / assumption is these designers maximized (or maybe "tuned / shaped") their native players to get best sound versus doing a pass through of the Roon player. 

Several people mention their preference for the MU1 running Roon over Innuos (I'm assuming running the Sense native player), and I'm guessing either Grimm has figured out how to get better SQ out of Roon, or Grimm maybe is running or shaping the SQ.... 

I have never agreed with those who felt innuos sense sounds better than roon.  I find no difference.  the streamer is doing the same thing, just a different human interface.  I hear no difference.

@antigrunge2 I suggest you look up the definition of tongue-in-cheek.  If that does't work for you, perhaps there are other words now in the dictionary that apply.  Would you prefer the wine review descriptions I read here..."subtle overtures of anis and a hint of manure..."   definitely some manure in some of the reviews I read here.  

I prefer the Grimm but don't want to bash the Innuos as it sounds great too.  Some reviewers can't pick one piece of gear without bashing the other and that is not my intention.

Jerry

@carlsbad2 

Let‘s just agree to disagree: InnuOS Sense and Roon are fundamentally different philosophies: Roon believes in heavy procssing and power akin to high powered amps whereas InnuOS believes in purist minimalist design akin to SET tube amps. To me they feel and sound very different.