Value of anything is a most fascinating subject to me.
Eric Clapton hasn't owned this Rolex Daytona for nearly 20 years. It 's probably been in storage since he dumped it and is expected to fetch north of $1.6M?
For that much I'd want his playing ability AND his stereo system.
That music you posted does not merely resonate in the ear but in the entire body nervous system and still more subtle aspects. It’s about as far from "ear candy" as can be imagined!
Just to clarify, I'm not advocating that Clapton's shortcomings should be excused or overlooked because he's a famed musician, merely pointing out that nearly everything in this world is a mixture of opposites or put another way, deeply paradoxical.
That music you posted does not merely resonate in the ear but in the entire body nervous system and still more subtle aspects. It's about as far from "ear candy" as can be imagined!
I will change the subject matter from "racism" and " conspiracy" and other problems which are way over our heads, because geopolitic and consciousness history is more complex than audio anyway, and audio is not understood in many audio thread, people arguing mainly about gear instead of thinking about acoustic and psycho-acoustic... I will change the subject matter to acousic/music and prime number theory with a riddle linked to Riemann Zeta problem and music... 😁😊😎😉 This is my facorite music piece...
This will mute those who see only ONE conspiracy everywhere and those who pretend that there is none anywhere....
«Each race being superior to all others by definition, racism is everywhere and nowhere like the center of the Pascal circle»-Groucho Marx explaining racism with geometry
@tylermunns You either don’t understand my question or don’t have an answer for it that you want to share. Either way, I think we’ve said all we need to say.
For you to play this brain-dead, bully style of argument-making, badgering me about playing with famous people, or how many “blues festivals” 😂 I’ve played, it’s unseemly.
If I had 50 platinum records, this makes my opinion more valid?
Again, try to avoid brazen thinking fallacies in your argument. Appeals to numbers ain’t gonna cut it.
You don’t know anything about me, how good I am, nothing. You think only people with commercial success can have an opinion. In a world of Kim Kardashian, Paris Hilton, and Justin Bieber…no, I don’t believe one’s commercial success gives their opinion more validity. But good try.
The watch referenced in the link above has that estimated price because it’s a possibly unique Rolex of iconic design. Clapton’s ownership isn’t adding much to the price, after 20 years
Separately, but relatedly, the watch market has gone bananas in the last 24 months
Clapton does collect Patek Philippe watches, often built for him with customized dials (in great taste). These he sells from time to time, with the proceeds going to charitable causes. These pieces are expensive both because of the customized dials (one has to be a great customer for Patek to customize a dial, and so these variation are often unique) and because directly from Clapton’s collection - these customized Clapton pieces, eventually sold for charity, are a “thing” in their own right and have been for a long time
(Only a strict Marxist thinks anything has intrinsic value, so who cares how people spend their money?)
...' I'm not wholly off the deep end with the conspiracy theorists and racists either'...
Pardon my ignorance as I live in a country where there is just one race, but I always thoght that beeing a 'racists' meens that you do not like the presence or existance of other races or that you think that you are somehow 'better' than the others.
I have seen Clapton playing with many other different folks, so I guess he does not fit in that category or that word (racist) has some other meaning that I do not fully know yet?.
On the other hand, calling somebody a 'conspiricy theorist' just because he has different personal experince (his words on vaccine are based on his condition after he took one) and despite many similar claims from many other people or even after published Pfeizer data which shows many registered death and heavy conseqences of their 'medicine' is just plain dumb, but above all, rude.
Such talk should not be present in any decent comunication between civilised men or even on forums despite the fact that some people obviously take advantage and shelter behind anonymity of their comuter keyboards
Still I find such behaviour despicable, even in this form.
@tylermunns You forgot to answer this part of my questions:
Has your band ever been invited by one of the blues greats to open for him or has one of the blues greats ever opened for you? Does or did Buddy Guy, B.B. King or Muddy Waters enjoy jamming with you?
Clapton has been a respected guitarist among the best of the Blues and Rock guitar playing community for decades. It is the nobodies who have never played with anyone except their highschool buddies that tend to criticize his playing. What has that got to do with McDonalds?
Also, I forgot to mention Jimi Hendrix as one of the people who enjoyed jamming with Clapton. I could add a lot more guitarists to that list, but you get the idea.
bdp24- Albert Lee is in otherworldly club of guitarists.
He always shows something in his playing that is mind blowing-at least to me.
I also vote Vince Gill as a heck of a player. He can pull off some Telecaster hot rodding when he wants to.
The players who kill on Tele's are in a class I dream of being in. A very special(but really a low tech piece of wood) guitar. It's all about who's got their hands' around that maple neck and slab of ash.
I would put Red Volkaert as a member of my Tele team.
Like @mahgister I don't get "collecting" . I have lots of records, but I listen to just about all of them and those I don't I sell if they are worth anything. One record I rarely play is worth at least 25 times what I paid for it, but when I do I really enjoy it. I bought a Rolex 20 years ago when I needed a watch because I got tired of the ones I used to buy being worth nothing after a couple years. It's worth 400% of what I paid and am seriously thinking about selling it since I wear it so rarely that I have to wind it and reset the time every time I wear it.
If I didn't own a watch now, I certainly wouldn't buy one. My wife likes the Rolex for some reason (I guess she likes the name and the look of it) and doesn't want me to sell it.... I am actually worried I would get robbed at some point and don't wear it in any situation where I may be at risk.
The collectors that get me are the car guys who never drive them. Dr. Porsche would roll over in his grave if he knew someone who kept one covered in storage. If you enjoy driving them and do so every once in a while, fine. They are meant to be driven. Hard.
I became aware of the name Eric Clapton when in 1966 I saw and heard the new Elektra Records sampler album entitled What’s Shakin’ (billed as Eric Clapton And The Powerhouse), which also contained the guitar playing of Mike Bloomfield (as a member of The Paul Butterfield Blues Band). Eric and Mike therefore became the first two white Blues guitarists I heard. I didn’t know it at the time, but I had already heard the playing of both: Eric on the debut Yardbirds album (uncredited. Only Jeff Beck’s name appears on the album’s cover), Mike on a coupla Bob Dylan’s.
Then came the debut by Cream, an album which changed everything. I can’t over-emphasize how influential that album was to Rock ’n’ Roll musicians. Passe’ was the concept of the 3-minute Pop song, replaced by improvisation and extended soloing and jamming. That album led me to discover the first John Mayall album (did Eric join Mayall’s band before or after his appearance on What’s Shakin’?), then onward back to Albert, Freddie, and B.B. King.
@whart is exactly correct in characterizing Clapton as having "psychedelicizing" Blues guitar playing, for better or worse (Atlantic Record’s President Ahmet Ertugan dismissed the Disraeli Gears album as "psychedelic horsesh*t" ;-) . But that phase of Eric’s musical path came to a screeching halt (as I have noted more than a few times here. Sorry ;-) when Eric heard Music from Big Pink. Out with long, extended musical ramblings, in with a more humble, subtle approach to music.
After making a pilgrimage to West Saugerties (the location of the Big Pink house, home to three of The Band’s five members, and in which they and Dylan recorded The Basement Tapes) and waiting he has said for The Band to ask him to join (the waiting proved to be in vain ;-) , he followed the musical path which eventually led him to J.J. Cale, who became his new role model and template for music making.
Eric has lived quite a life, and made an enormous contribution to Pop, Blues, and even Country music. Thank you Eric.
As for Albert (NOT Alvin ;-) Lee: members of the Albert Lee fan club include Emmylou Harris (Albert was in her Hot Band for a number of years), The Everly Brothers (Albert was the lead guitarist in their road band for decades), Dave Edmunds (you do know about Edmunds, rght? Keith Richards wishes he could play guitar like Dave), Vince Gill (though known primarily as as singer, Vince is an excellent guitarist), Brad Paisley, obviously, Richard Thompson, and every Telecaster player in the world. And myself. In my life I’ve seen and heard a LOT of guitarists live (including Clapton, Hendrix, Albert King, Mike Bloomfield, Ry Cooder, Dave Edmunds, Al Anderson (NRBQ), Robbie Robertson, many others), and Albert remains one of my very favorites.
"The problem with EC's playing from my perspective is I always seem to know which note comes next which for me makes him boring"
Fair enough-- each to his/her own.
"We are sitting on the brink of a nuclear war, getting as close as the Cuban missile crisis"
I can't speak for anyone else but I find myself caught between two apparently conflicting coping strategies-- 1) painstakingly following the blow-by-blow commentary and 2) shutting off the computer and deliberately focusing on other things (audio included). I've heard from friends and family members that they are experiencing the same conflict.
@secretguy: You and I agree on many things but sadly you are way off on Clapton. Most of the great respected guitarists of all time (Albert Lee, Yngwee Malmsteen, Joe Bonamassa etc) all say Clapton is a fabulous improvisational talent and blues player--Yngwe saying Clapton's guitar on John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers album defines blues playing. Is he the best of all time--no---is he a great guitar player--yes. Would love to know what successful trained musician thinks he's a "hack" ? Oh and don't mention Ritchie Blackmore--his jealousy of Clapton is well known. For the record Clapton thinks Albert Lee is the best.
Not sure what to say about this. No one you mentioned qualifies and an excellent musician. But that's one of the pitfalls of civilians talking about music.,
Clapton developed a psychedelic aspect to the electric blues, along with a few others and to me, that is what he is best known for---- in the period between Mayall and Cream.
He also paid Skip James for the right to adapt "I'm so Glad"--fairly generously for the time, without arm-twisting as I recall.
I don't know about the moral high ground here. I do know there is a degree of presentism in judging the past by today's standards. If you are talking about current stuff, that does not take away from his historical significance as a player.
Tylermunns, would you like to own a painting of Caravaggio or Dali? Or perhaps one from Picasso?
By all means, they were not nicest people, but what that says about thier art? I have never met Clapton, do not belive that you have either. I guess, if you are superficial enough, you might find 'something' on anybody that you dont like. As long as their deeds does not affect the lives of other people, their personal traits are just that, personal thing. I am not even the fan of his music, but when you mention blues or players that he 'ripped off', at least he brought some attention to some of them or their art, which inspate of having tremendous historical and artistic value is not appreciated in thier own country, as many of them could not make living of it. Just read some biography (almost any) of big jazz protagonists of the past, there is almost no 'happy' stories, not to mention that until recently they could not share the same space with folks of different color.
I strongly believe that these are far more important things to understand or 'make the stand' about, than the personality of some rock star and even the notorius one.
As for the likings of watches or jewlery or anything overly expensive, a song comes to mind...
I collect watches and have (amazingly) heard the "why have a watch when your phone has the time?" comment before. Why have artistic painting when you can throw paint on the wall? Music? Just grunt and rattle your food bowl...man...for those who like them, watches are amazing little machines with soul and wearable design...Rolex is an interesting company that makes over a million watches a year, and their prices have soared...so what? Don't like Clapton's playing? He's sort of proved himself musically over 6 decades or so...so...meh...he can play and it's very likely you can't. (however, I can and have for maybe only 5 decades...again...meh...)
@tomcy6McDonald’s has sold 8 kazillion burgers. That don’t make them the world’s culinary Mecca. You can use blunt appeals to numbers to make your argument. That doesn’t make your argument cogent. By your logic, Milli Vanilli, Justin Bieber and Nickelback are much greater than the Velvet Underground or Kraftwerk or The Stooges.
Clapton is good at guitar. No reasonably-minded person would say he is not.
He is just waaaaaay, way less good than he has been portrayed through 5+ decades. The fact that he’s an objectively awful human ain’t helpin’ things.
I wish I had a dollar for every bar band or mom’s basement guitarist who thinks he can play better than Clapton. I would be a rich man.
@tylermunnsHow much do you make a show and how far up the charts did your best album go? Has your band ever been invited by one of the blues greats to open for him or has one of the blues greats ever opened for you? Does or did Buddy Guy, B.B. King or Muddy Waters enjoy jamming with you?
Clapton has always acknowledged his debt to the Blues masters whose phrases he painstakingly learned by copying one phrase at a time off records, listening, then trying to duplicate what he'd heard , then moving the needle back and listening again. There were no guitar schools or TAB books or video lessons back then! I recall him stating in an early Guitar Player magazine interview that his style was composed of 1) these borrowed phrases and 2) lines he made up to connect the former. He said the latter comprised "his style" but that he much preferred the "BB and Freddie lines". Seems to me it's important to consider how Black Blues masters responded to Clapton-- typically with genuine respect for his dedication to learning the art and craft of Blues guitar-- before bringing up the topic of cultural appropriation. This process of "borrowing" is deeply ingrained in a tradition that, for a very long time, could only be learned by a process of listening and imitation, whatever he color of the players.
Someone in this thread dismissed EC as a "hack", whatever that's supposed to mean, as if anyone can learn to play at EC's level. Eric can be accused of many things but not disrespect for or laziness in regards to his devotion to, the genre.
Blues is easy to play poorly and many do. It is composed of very simple building blocks, which means there is no place to hide-- the burden lies entirely upon the sophistication of the player! I don't ever recall Clapton claiming he was the Greatest Blues player or Greatest Guitar player-- as far as I'm aware, he's been quite humble in this regard. After all, for much of his career, the masters he'd copied were still alive and playing. There was a PBS tv special that came out in conjunction with the From the Cradle album and Clapton's abiding passion as a scholar and student of the Blues is deeply apparent throughout that video. Egotistic bravado is conspicuously absent.
I'm not a Clapton fanboy by any means (when it comes to British Blues players, I prefer Peter Green) but fair is fair.
Lawrence of Arabia was into Brough motorcycles- he died on one.
Don't look up the cost of one of the original 100 (mph) models- you could buy a lot of stuff for one of those bikes.
I find it ironic? that people who are into a niche hobby- at least at the high end of audio-- don't at least "get" the fact that there are other pursuits involving "gear" that seems absurdly priced (and in some cases, it is). If you told the average non-enthusiast what some of the systems here cost, there would be a revolution. :)
Have fun, keep the shiny side up as they say in motorsports.
Your ideological revising of history is not to my liking sorry... I will not discuss that here and why...
i will not go and take out street names and statues in a systematic ideological war...
And i am too old to admire male chemically modified swimmer in a feminine pool...
And i dont like globalist and transhumanist agenda either...
Anything else?
I am not vaxx....
I dont like Biden ,Trudeau nor Trump...Nor Macron Nor Xi and neither Putin...
i Like Kennedy, De Gaulle, Eisenhower and perhaps half of Churchill....
The general i like the most is General Wrangel for his human conduct in the saving evacuation of the lost white armies against the red...
My most admired personal historical hero is Richard Burton...Not the Actor... And not a "woke" consciousness by all means but an awaken one if you dare to read his life and achievement..... Think about Freud and Levy-Strauss , superman and Indiana Jones or Lawrence of Arabia , and Shakespeare in one single individuality and it is him...He spoke 45 languages among other things and was one of the greatest swordsman of his time......And discovering the Nile source at this time in history was like going in Antartica or walking on the moon...He spoke arab so perfectly than no arab ever detected that he was an englishman the first one walking in the forbidden Timbuctu or the Mecca without being killed...Think about this feat...
@mahgisterI agree that leveling a charge such as cultural appropriation is not to be taken lightly, or tossed around willy-nilly. For instance, is Eminem culturally-appropriative, or just exceptionally good at what he does? I think these are good, interesting debates to have.
However, such a charge may have merit in Clapton’s case when his music’s progenitors received little to no recognition, in either a relative sense or a general sense, and then here comes another young British dude doing that stuff and enjoying the era’s fetishization with young white dudes playing “blues,” and thusly receiving commercial success some 100x that of the originators.
At least in Eminem’s care, there were a dozen-or-so originators who had enjoyed a lot of commercial success for a good 15 years preceding him, whereas, again, most of the originators of the blues barely made a living and still had to hold regular jobs.
I think these are important things to look at. History is always written by the winners, and it’s always easy to cry “foul” in the face of criticism when you are the exploiter, while the other side remains the exploited.
@mahgisterYikes. You said it best: “I’m too old to be imprisoned in reeducation camp.”
I only call it as I see it. Considering reprinting his 1976 comments here would be far too grotesque, I would urge you to google them. The ideas he expressed are patently revolting, but then even more galling when one considers his entire career was built off of appropriating these same people’s music (with little-to-no creativity and evolution, I might add)
You call it, “imprisonment in reeducation,” I call it being set free by the truth.
" You could have Clapton’s playing ability if you just bought a guitar and practiced with marginal diligence. I would guess the average person hits Clapton-level ability after about a year from starting from scratch.
There’s nothing special about his playing. As basic as it gets."
SIGH...
Knows it all, predictable remarks, always the new member with the comments.
@tablejockeyWe’re not exactly treading on consistent-audiophilia-related ground when we’re talking about watches and God, are we? I didn’t know being a decent human was “woke.”
This forum seems to fetishize a well-known, well-documented, vile racist who said some of the most abominable things while being a blues-music-appropriator. So he says vile things about people of color, then goes on to another gig where he makes huge money ripping off old blues music. Pretty classy dude.
Yet, for the 10,000,000th time in history, here’s someone referring to him as, “God.”
tube, The earth rotates @ 1040 mph as (supposedly, if you believe that) measured. Standard watch escapments measured 18,000 beats per hour, some modern movements moreso. The Tourbillion escapement by Breguet was designed to compensate for gravitational errors. That is A LOT of extra price for saving one second a day. They say time is money ... 😄
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