GIK Vicoustic and others

I am only going to speak to acoustics.  I have ordered from Vicoustic and GIK.  I think you should ask either Vicoustic or GIK to provide a free room analysis.  They will tell you what you need in your basement.  It is a waste of time asking us.  

Small rooms are not doomed to fail but may be more demanding of speaker/listening chair placement.  I once had a similarly small room in a basement and was shocked at the quality of the sound I achieved in a near field arrangement.

Of course you will want to insulate your walls--but not for acoustic reasons.  It does very little acoustically.  Now double sheet rock may be worth considering.  Make sure you place outlets in strategic places as you will need to see if the long or short wall sounds best.  Hard to predict that.  My room had a dropped ceiling--this can double as a bass trap if need be.

GIK has a good reputation. I can also recommend Audimute. Acoustic treatments are also very easy DIY projects.  If you did a nearfield arrangement, I would treat the first reflection points on the sidewalls and the wall behind you with 2x4' panels to dampen reflections off those surfaces (Your seated position will probably have to be near the rear wall and you don't want all that "early reflected" sound confusing things).  I would then try to work on some diffusion of the front wall or near room corners.

Just some suggestions. Have fun and good luck!

I too have been starting to research acoustic treatments for my room. 

I am a little apprehensive about GIK right now. If you search online they seem to be having pandemic related issues with delivery and quality. 

Might want to check out some other options until GIK get sorted out. It's difficult as their Alpha series is perfect for what I need. 

Vicoustic looks cool but $$$$$. Darko just did his room in Vicoustics I think. Spent five figures. 

Good luck!

I know GIK is having issues with order fill and my last order took over 3 months but the quality was as always great.

Would double dry wall be sufficient or do I need insulation such as rock wool ? Has anyone tried both? 

I have both GIK and Vicoustics. Vicsoustics is >>>> GIK. They are expensive, but worth it. If not anything, get multifuser DC3 in between the speakers on front wall. That will be the biggest change. Rest you can manage based on budget and preference.

Not sure about the dry wall/ insulation: Waiting for other replies to learn from them. 

Use the long axis ( placement on room width ). 

Find out what the radiation pattern is for the Sonus Faber Ellipsa and you will have some idea where to start.

No Loudspeaker should overload ( be unusable ) for a reasonably sized room.

Work out how to treat for low end response and the rest will be less of an issue.

Once low frequency is addressed moving out of close field is possible.

I’d insulate because it’s the basement, but no need for double drywall. Another place to put insulation is in the ceiling, it will definitely cut down on the noise complainants from upstairs 😁

All the best.

JD

I ordered from GIK and was not pleased.  It took two months for the products to arrive. And when they did, they were poorly packaged and all four pieces were damaged. Took close to another 2 months to get replacement pieces for the damaged pieces. I could have overlooked the delays if the products had arrived in good condition, but based on my first experience with the delays and damage, I am unlikely to go back to them for any future purchases.

@ bjp9738 My friend had a similar experience, long wait for poorly packaged damaged panels. They did not replace the entire panel, just the front plates, and he had to fix them himself. Sounds like Vicoustic is more professional and higher quality. 

I had the same issue with GIK. They took over 3 months and when the panels arrived, one of the front plates was broken. They sent me a new one pretty quickly. The rest of the panels were pretty good though. However, the second shipment had panels with with very visible creases all over, corners not cut properly, and an overall looser fit. The fit and finish was not indicative of the prices they charge. They told me it would be another 3 months to send the replacements. I was tired of waiting so just kept the panels. It seems GIK is now hit and miss depending on who works on your panels. I won't be ordering from them anymore.

I ordered three 6 inch by 2 foot wide and 4 feet tall dual use for my rear wall. The order took a couple of months but they were on time within their estimated time. Packaging was poor. I used a black marker to touch up some light damage.  SQ changes were NOT noticeable, but they look cool. I ordered 2 16 Inch by 4 foot tube traps, they were almost 3 times the cost of the three GIK panels, but they make a huge improvement if you can believe this...IMAGING and secondly bass control. I put them behind and  a bit towards  the center on the front wall. They only took 2 weeks to get them to me. Pacaging was amazing and protective. Proucts were perfect. BTW the tube traps are often shown as an off white that stands out like a

BTW, if you're just starting out with adding room treatments, my advice is to start with bass traps (corners behind the speakers) and a pair of diffusers for first reflection points - you can use the mirror technique to find out the first reflection points. These will give you the biggest bang for your buck.

Sorry i hit enter without editing my comments. The three panels were GIK. The point at the end was that I ordered black Tube traps and they integrate well with my black speakers/grills/subs. Rather than the off white units that tend to stand out at acoustic treatments. I highly recommend the much more expensive Tube traps. Big sonic gain and tunable to your room and the space you have available.

@ei001h Contrary to the above post, double drywall DOES not only improve room acoustics but it cuts down on sound transmission. Make sure your door is massive as well and seal in all the way around the perimeter.

Rock wool is a good product acoustically. Again, I suggest wall and even ceiling insulation-but more for thermal qualities than acoustic ones. Just don’t expect miracles acoustically. Mass is what you need-not fluff!

If you have the opportunity to build this room, do it right.

obtw-when I had a quality issue with acoustic panels from Audimute, they were great. Went above and beyond and replaced the panels.

@ei001h

Double drywall does work (Quiet rock is the bomb, Home Depot) I did that and used green glue between the layers. I also had spray foam installed and then rock wool on top of that on all walls and ceiling before drywall. Prior to drywall going up it was eerily so quiet that it was actually disturbing because of no reflections at all.

If you’re going to do it might as well do it right. BTW I have more than a case of Green Glue left over if your interested.

Regards,

barts

@barts 

why double dry wall if you’re already using rock wool ? Where did you instal spray foam ? Why is glue important?

@ei001h 

I just finished my basement room a few weeks ago. I was in the same situation as you with not knowing the best way to build the room but wanted to do it right to achieve the best sound I could. I ended up going with an acoustician to design the room for me and I built it. His price was VERY reasonable. I recommend consulting a professional to at least get their thoughts. Jeff at hdacoustics is great to work with   He I’d very thorough and knowledgeable. Good luck! 
 

Ron

I'm in the middle of  a project treating a room exactly the same size as yours.

I went DIY for a couple of reasons.  Delayed shipping from vendors, mostly.  There's a lot of info on YouTube regarding treating mastering rooms/studios.  All the same applies to 2-channel.

Basically, use as much broad-band absoption in the room as you can reasonably fit.  Maybe diffusion on the front wall between the speakers.

Place your speakers on the short wall (short wall is front and back, long wall on the sides).

Do the bass traps first.  Front corners, wall to ceiling.

I purchased Owens Corning 703 and 705 directly from an insulation company.  Arrived in two days.

Stuff the ceiling joists.  I used 9" R-30.  Took about $250 to do the ceiling.  I covered the ceiling with natural cotton canvas (painters drop cloth).

For cloth, I can't recommend Guileford of Maine enough.  It's expensive, but it does not wrinkle (no ironing...).  Has a great hand and is easy to work with.

Do your own research and plan well.  Lots of info out there.  You can spend $10k easily in that room if you follow someone like Denis Foley (Acoustic Fields).  I checked them out.  I'm sure the pro stuff works, but I'm a low-budget guy.  My system is only worth $10k or so, I can't afford to double it for room treatments.

Hello,

Years ago I was in the same boat. I researched insulation for audio with rock wool. Try to leave a 2” gap between the Rockwool and the space above it. It is better than stuffing the whole space with the insulation. Please call the companies about a referral of what to get. As said above try not to have skyline defuse panels behind you if you are close. It sounds really weird. First reflection points first. You can try this out with a small blanket or towel pined on the wall. I love the idea of the bass traps but you are very limited do to room size. In most cases you are going to have the speakers on a short wall so you can get some space in the front and back. Otherwise you will be dealing with slap back from the rear wall. Since you are doing this from scratch I know their are ways to do some of this by actually using the wall and ceiling cavity. I know plywood is so expensive but I am thinking of doing a plywood room/ drilling holes and maybe using some carbon fill. Great for bass control. Then, worry about reflection points. I want to do the carbon fill in my room since I have a 12” raised platform for stadium seating. Just to let you know. After you get the room done you can control the rest with power cables. I would call Straightwire and get their recommendations for cables. One your room and gear is in. Anything you need to tweak or correct the sound they can help. Most people would be surprised by how good even their affordable lines cost. If you are doing subs please stick to sealed box with good brands like JL Audio, Rel, and a few others that are more specialized but are designed for two channel. I hope this and one of these acoustic companies can make your room great. 

I’ve been a GIK customer for several years. As expressed to others on the Gon, they had QC issues pre pandemic. For instance, poor build quality; peeling surfaces; sloppy folding of fabrics; and rectangular enclosures with obtuse angles. They were responsive to my complaints, and the replacements met expectations. I’d recommend them if your expectations are lowered for speed and quality. 

As well stated above, you are doomed without sufficient bass trapping. That’s where the $ needs to go first. All 4 corners 12-16” diameter for the lowest fundamentals and to tame the standing waves, eliminate nulls. 

If you are handy and want to DIY some acoustic panels here is an excellent video:

IMO if you have a limited budget for listening room sound treatment you will be better off spending your funds on in-room treatments (absorbers, diffusers, bass traps) than on extra layers of drywall and insulation. I've heard several standard construction listening rooms that sound great, including mine, and if you sell your house someday you will not not recover the audio related construction expense.

@ei001h 

"why double dry wall if you’re already using rock wool ? Where did you instal spray foam ? Why is glue important?"

I live in a quiet  neighborhood, but there are still neighbors with leave blowers, chain saws etc and the ever present AC compressors.
So I double studded the room which left enough room for spray foam (do not do this your self) and rockwool.  Then double "Quiet Rock" dry wall with green glue in the middle. Makes for rather wide window sills!

To answer your questions directly: I made the room as sound-proof as possible.
The spray foam and rock wool are admittedly overkill, but I had to have some insulation as it's an above ground room on a slab.

Order of events was: double framing then spray foam then rockwool then Quiet Rock then Green glue then quiet rock.

Green Glue may or may not be important to you...my system can easily overload the room so I'm throwing the kitchen sink at SOUND PROOFING.  Not to be confused with acoustic treatments. 

To be clear: my goal was to make the room impervious to external noise, and secondarily to music escaping.  The room is dead quiet which IMO will raise the level of any set-up you end-up with.  

You're on the right path.

Regards,
barts

@8th-note 

I agree with your sentiment...but this is not a one-size-fits-all arrangement.
This (essentially) is what we signed up for!  If the listening room doesn't require
aggressive SOUND-PROOFING then your good.

If external noise invasion is not present (it's virtually not in my case) and there's no issue with music escaping into the internal environ you are good to go and your advice should be heeded.

Regards,
barts

@ei001h 

It looks like you are getting some good advice. Just a little more on my room. There is no drywall inside the room. The walls are 2 inch rigid fiberglass ( OwensCorning) covered with fabric and 1/4 inch pegboard covered as well. 2x6 framing. Rockwool between the studs and in the ceiling.This gives you extra square footage in the ceiling and wall cavities.   Outer wall is drywall then a layer of mass loaded vinyl (excellent soundproofing ) then a thicker layer of drywall over the MLV. 

I have a dedicated room the same size and I added 12 GIK 242 panels (4 front wall, 4 back wall and a pair each side wall) which made a nice difference. I emailed with them a few times and sent them pics and REW measurements. For my budget they recommended their 242 panel so that's what I got. 

I have a pair of Aurum Cantus V7F speakers and when I play it loud then yeah it starts to overload the room a bit but I don't play them that loud ever. I tried putting the system on the long wall first then tried the short wall and that's the way it stayed. 

For ceiling Getting double 5/8 dry wall with green glue and safe and sound stuffing. 
 

what should I do with the floor ? It’s concrete now. I don’t think I can install hardwood on concrete. Thick vinyl floor ? 
 

Timely thread, I have some basic room treatments,  two corner bass traps and four 244's base traps all GIK. I went thru the room analysis with GIK, placed an order for two more corner traps.....to start. Based upon GIK recommendations,  I put two 244's on each side wall at the first reflection point.....it made a noticeable difference. I am hoping that they arrive undamaged,  as some, as experienced.  And I was told shipping was 8-12 weeks out.....that's OK.

My room is a dedicated 20' X 14' in the basement. I did not do double dry wall...instead, the non-foundation walls have staggard studs, and the dry wall on the ceiling is on a track system. There is a solid core door, rarely closed.....thanks to our dogs.

Anyways, I plan on following GIK's plan and believe the end result will be nice surprise.

For the floor - Rug (s) with pad ... carpet or additional flooring is not necessary.