Fremer's review of the Anna cartridge

Right on.
-- Off topic -- Did you ever follow up with a listening session of those records you cleaned with that film stuff on AP? I watch the whole video of the cleaning but no test to see how it did?

I just happened upon these comments. They are so absurd I don't know where to start. Ortofon made a mistake. Has anyone here ever made a mistake? I should have known the answer, which is "no", we are all perfect. The mistake was an issue with the new damper material and adhesive that did not immediately show itself and they had no reason to suspect the problem would occur so having finished the project, they sent me one of the first samples and only then was the problem discovered. Probably I should have just shut up about all of this and just reviewed the third sample because it's clear that some of you can't properly process information you're given. This thread is utterly disappointing and stupidly cranky.

Quite indicative:

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=19527#19527

Mike (and Peter),

I did say "unofficial" beta testers. Sorry if the suggestion was a stretch... a thorn is a spike is a thistle!

In any event, we're in agreement that Ortofon's blithely ignoring the Q/C issues Fremer described didn't reflect well on their public relations skills. Still, if the issues have been resolved as you described then it's water over the dam. New customers can base their buying decision on other factors, including the fine reviews given by you and Fremer.

Downunder...why the hostility? Why so sensitive? Did you give too much of your loading ramp earnings to Dan D'Agostino? Why so much weirdly obsessive and clearly retentive sexually pithy retorts? Listen...many insecure people get testy when confused about themselves and can't have any fun...it's OK...we're gonna help you all we can.

Garcia - you bozo. Nobody's listening to you, so go back to watching porn :-)

Doug, from the quote you used, I did not mean to imply that Mike and Fremer were beta testing these cartridges. Is there any mention of that anywhere? I'm not sure I'd assume that Ortofon was beta testing this batch of 8-10 with US customers. I would think that a company as large as Ortofon and with its resources would use different methods to test cartridges, but I may be mistaken.

Fremer's review reads like any other current production component review. There is no mention of beta testing or pre release in the review itself. I think Fremer got his three review samples from Ortofon directly. Also, it seems that Mike bought his Anna as a show-demo and that Fremer's review sample was not from this initial 8-10 US batch. It would be interesting to know how many of the 8-10 had problems and if this batch was produced before or after Fremer's three samples.

I agree that Ortofon should have just addressed this openly, honestly and early. Assuming the Anna sounds as wonderful as Mike describes, there will surely be many more sold with positive user reviews in the future.

Doug,

just to clarify, my information was that this small group of Anna's were 'pre-release' not 'beta'. these were distributed for demo purposes prior to retail release. i was not given one of these directly, i was only able to buy one after it had been used as a demo at CES. i have no idea how many Anna's were built initially, only that this small group was the only one's distributed in this part of the world. none were given to dealers for customer orders. the lack of any Anna's in customer hands makes this 'pre-release'

but it does not make them 'beta-test'.

to me a 'beta-test' is different, and normally part of development prior to the final production run.

i just don't want to give the wrong impression about my understanding. maybe it reflects more negatively that they are 'pre-release' than 'beta'....but that is my understanding.

Thanks for you post Mike. This is the first I have read that that initial run of 8-10 cartridges were "pre-release" samples. Fremer makes no mention of this in the review.

Apparently, Fremer (and Mike) were acting as unofficial beta-testers. No one's surprised if a beta test reveals a problem, that's the point of beta-testing.

I don't understand why Ortofon didn't explain in their Manufacturer's Comments in Stereophile that the first preproduction batch had some problems and that production was stopped and the problems had been corrected before any were shipped for sale to the public. This thread wouldn't have been necessary.

Did they think that if they didn't say anything that no one would notice that Fremer had to return the first two samples?

A little more honest explanation and less hype and obfuscation would do the high-end a world of good.

Indeed. If Ortofon had addressed this there would have been nothing to discuss. In fact, their diligence in halting production until the problem was solved would have enhanced their image as a quality-concious company. By ignoring the obvious they turned an opportunity into an embarassment.

One of the biggest problems I run into every day in business is dealing with people who're reluctant to face difficult issues head-on. Sales and marketing types are frequent offenders. Their innate optimism causes them to sweep problems under the carpet and attempt to wish them away. That may be what happened here.

The performance of the cartridge, however great or not so great, has little to do with the humor and irony of the Fremer review of it and the aforementioned D'Agostino silliness...the fact that it's all taken to be very unfunny is also pretty funny. A strong strain of geekdom insecurity winds its way through this entire subject, and I for one am grateful.

It would be interesting to hear from other Anna owners in this thread.

So far no actual Anna owner has said they had the same problem Fremer had.
If my count is correct, three Anna owners ( including me ) have responded with praise and no issues in this thread.

Weird that Fremer had two bad samples but would be really helpful to know if this was a case of lightning striking twice, or if there was/is a quality issue with the Anna.

I'm sure there are more than three Anna owners on Audiogon, so would be very interested to get their feedback.

Dear Mikelavigne: Thank's for your post. I did not have any doubt on the Anna top quality performance but on its QC that for me was something weird due to first hand several experiences with Ortofon cartridges.

I posted here:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1365811842&openflup&25&4#25

and I said " don't fixed at all today " because I did not know what you posted, now is more clear the whole QC subject.

Thank's again.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Diggory/Lewm.....that is MY history with Ortofon....as a matter of fact when I complained to them, they were very accomodating to send me a new cartridge, but it too had a bent stylus.....Even under the new plastic packaging anyone could see that the stylus was severely bent. Yuk...

The thread could as well have been titled, "Tempest in a teapot".

Stringreen, I am very surprised to learn of your experience with Ortofon cartridges. Mine is the opposite. In addition, direct examination of any Ortofon cartridge at any price point typically suggests that the quality of design and construction is equal to and often better than that of other cartridges at that price point. This is not at all to say that Ortofon cartridges are always the best sounding at any price point.

I have personally owned 2 different eras of Ortofon cartridges and have never had any q/c problems with any of of them. I know others that also had never had any q/c problems with their Ortofons. I will continue buying Ortofon products as they are excellent and have never let me down.

Mikelavigne- Thanks for your comments, which add a valuable perspective to this discussion. I guess we always need to remember that there is a reason the call it "the bleeding edge". I also agree that these threads can suffer from too much negativity. There obviously can be manufacturing problems in pre-production. But it also clearly demonstrates the dangers of beta-testing your products in the public eye.

Dear 'Goners,
Please note that after rereading the above post I felt the first version had some problems that made it unacceptable to be presented to the esteemed readership of this blog.

Those problems have been corrected in the second version and I will give a full refund for whatever you paid to read the first post. Please submit your original receipt (not a copy) with your request.

I don't understand why Ortofon didn't explain in their Manufacturer's Comments in Stereophile that the first preproduction batch had some problems and that production was stopped and the problems had been corrected before any were shipped for sale to the public. This thread wouldn't have been necessary.

Did they think that if they didn't say anything that no one would notice that Fremer had to return the first two samples?

A little more honest explanation and less hype and obfuscation would do the high-end a world of good.

I don't understand why Ortofon didn't explain in their Manufacturer's Comments in Stereophile about the bad first batch and that the production problems had been corrected. This thread wouldn't have been necessary.

Did they think that if they didn't say anything that no one would notice that Fremer had to return the first two samples?

A little more honest explanation and less hype and obfuscation would do the high-end a world of good.

I have owned my Anna for several mths and no problems.

I have a Benz LP s mr and while it is very good, the Anna is more open and tighter bass. Although I still like the Benz's lush sound, then Anna is very addictive.

I am running the Anna on a graham phantom, clearaudio innovation, Zesto Andros phono, CJ 16 ls, Cary v12 i, Avantgarde Duos, Synergistic ref cabling.

Now if I could just get a replacement stylus guard for the one i lost, I'd be perfectly happy.

I have personally owned 2 different era's of Ortofon cartridges and have had q/c problems with each of them. I know others that also had q/c problems with their Ortofons. I will not buy anything Ortofon

Thanks for you post Mike. This is the first I have read that that initial run of 8-10 cartridges were "pre-release" samples. Fremer makes no mention of this in the review. The episode had been described to me by a friend overseas as a "recall" of the fist production batch for the US market. Ortofon did take a high road not to discuss this in the Manufacturer's Comments section, but by not doing so, perhaps they became more vulnerable to more questions.

I think the thread has taken the course set out by the original title. I do think that the merits of the MC Anna should be discussed, but perhaps it will take the initiation of a new thread to do so.

I'm interested in hearing this cartridge, but did not go to CES and am not aware of a dealer around the Boston area that has one on demo, so this thread or some other about the cartridge would be most interesting. I would love to read from owners, about how the Anna compares to other cartridges like the Atlas, MSL Gold, AirTight Supreme or XV-1t. Valin does compare it to the Clearaudio.

I don't expect much mention of the Valin review in this thread because of the title of this thread. Both reviews do describe the Anna in pretty high terms and it would be interesting to compare those opinions to others held by owners or those who have heard it in their own systems. It is a relatively heavy cartridge at 16g, and as such would not be as ideal a match for my SME V-12 arm which is ideally suited for a cartridge that weighs 12.5g enabling the counterweight to be as close to the pivot as possible. But I am intrigued by the technology of this and the A90 and think that perhaps Ortofon is leading the way toward a whole new way to construct cartridges. And we all benefit from their pursuit of the next level of performance.

Finally, I don't read this thread as a bashing of the Anna. There have been some pretty critical comments towards Ortofon, but the real focus it seems to me is on Fremer and the choices that he made in writing the review. You comment on precisely this and I think this is what this thread is mostly about. Some have commented on QC in general and in this industry in particular, and that too is a legitimate issue that many of us have experienced.

Dear M. Lavigne: I would like that you come back again not to tell us what already posted but to tell us if you have any tiny concern/worry on what we are discussing here. I hope you can share your personal opinion on the whole subject.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Raul,

my point of posting my positive experience about the MC Anna were to possibly bring some discussion of the actual merits of the performance of the Anna to the thread. obviously that was not what participants in this thread want to dwell on.

i did write a post a few days ago on this situation but elected to not post it because i felt it would simply fly back at me by all the agenda holders in the thread. since you are asking for it, here it is;

in the manufacturer's comment section, responding to Fremer's review, Louis Dorio, the US representative for Ortofon, basically thanks Fremer for the positive comments of which there were plenty and makes no attempt to defend or contest anything that Fremer says in the MC Anna review. Louis and Ortofon took the high road, likely the best way to go. and i respect that.

i don't want to get into any sort of excuse making for Ortofon or the MC Anna. however; i do know about the original group of 8-10 MC Anna cartridges that were brought over for CES demos and Fremer.....since i ended up purchasing one of these after it was used as a demo at CES. this first group was not intended for retail and were a 'pre-release' group. 2 or 3 of these did have some issues with the rubber material holding the stylus to the body. after this was discovered production for retail was delayed while it was investigated. 6 months later the Anna was released for retail.

my Anna from this pre-release group has been perfect. another one from this group is in a friend's system and used daily with zero issues. i don't have knowledge of the other's from this pre-release group.

lots of products have initial issues with first production runs. but if they are not high profile who would know.

Fremer could have spun his review in many different ways. he could have dealt with the 'pre-release' Anna issue in another way if he wanted to. we are left with the way he wrote it. a few years ago he annoited the Ortofon A90 'king of the hill' in a matter of speaking. now he pulls no punches with the Anna. i was surprised at how he decided to handle a problem with a 'pre-release' cartridge.

i think that it's more significant that Fremer made the choice to hit the MC Anna hard for the issues he had with it in terms of reviews in general, than what it might or might not say about the MC Anna. but that's just me and my perspective.

Ortofon surely has egg on their face for allowing any problems at all....but.....in any case; the MC Anna is a fantastic cartridge. listen to one if you can.

i'm not one to typically particpate in bashing any product, manufacturer or person. it's negativity which does not enhance my enjoyment of the hobby. in my job i'm dealing with those issues all the damn time. when threads go down those roads i go listen to music.

i've owned lots of cutting edge gear at first release. many times, particularly with new fresh designs, there is a manufacturers learning curve. i accept that as a price of admission to that type of product. beta testing and pre-release products can uncover things (like the Anna). those type issues should not destroy the viability of the product. even Honda occasionally has issues with new product lines despite billions of dollars of development costs.

it's interesting (but not surprising) to me that no one has posted in this thread (that i recall seeing) about the rave review in Absolute Sound for the MC Anna by Jonathan Valin. also interesting that so little has been made of the great things Fremer said about the performance of the Anna. this fact tells me where people on this thread are coming from.

his is what I would do if I were a cartridge manufacturer in a similar situation. I would contact each registered purchaser of the cartridge and offer an explanation of what the problems with MF's review samples were. I would further offer any owner a factory review and re-certification of their cartridge at no cost. If during that review process a cartridge is determined to be out of spec or defective I would offer a free repair or replacement. For cartridges that I determined to be past their useful life due to normal wear and tear I would offer a reduced price replacement. Cartridges that I deem to have been mishandled or abused would be handled on a case by case basis.

Totally agree. But wouldn't it be much less expensive AND much less damaging to your brand to just mount and test each cart before it goes out?

Dear M. Lavigne: I would like that you come back again not to tell us what already posted but to tell us if you have any tiny concern/worry on what we are discussing here. I hope you can share your personal opinion on the whole subject.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Dear Lewm: Yes that can happen like with Ortofon or AN and with other top cartridges. It happened to me more than once.

I agree: ++++ " It takes grande cojones to be a high-end consumer " +++++

The situation with the Anna is nothing new on the high-end audio items market. How many of us laready experienced several troubles with new products as: TT/tonearms, electronics or speakers?, I think that every one of us already experienced some way or other.

I'm not saying to justify that bad QC but we know that that bad QC in some items is the " bread " of every day and IMHO is a SHAME it still happen today. Why pay we so high prices for that kind of bad QC items?

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

I nominate Onhwy61 for Minister of All High-End Manufacturing.

I'm not going to speculate what Ortofon will do, but this is what I would do if I were a cartridge manufacturer in a similar situation. I would contact each registered purchaser of the cartridge and offer an explanation of what the problems with MF's review samples were. I would further offer any owner a factory review and re-certification of their cartridge at no cost. If during that review process a cartridge is determined to be out of spec or defective I would offer a free repair or replacement. For cartridges that I determined to be past their useful life due to normal wear and tear I would offer a reduced price replacement. Cartridges that I deem to have been mishandled or abused would be handled on a case by case basis.

Onhwy61,

Do you think that Ortofon will replace every Anna that is returned because the owner is not sure what's wrong but doesn't think the cartridge is working properly?

I don't.

Raul, I was in the home of another audiophile last week, to audition his huge horn system; with mammoth horn woofers, the multi-way speaker takes up half his listening room. His cartridge was a special Audio Note Io that has field coil magnets (i.e., the magnet is an electro-magnet that must be separately energized). $10K, if you can find one, since they are discontinued. Anyway, during the course of listening to 3-4 LPs, the sound suddenly went very sour, and upon close inspection the owner found that the stylus had come off the cantilever of his Io. Either the glue failed (if the stylus was glued) or the press fit failed due to fatigue. He never lost his cool, however, because, he said, he has another such Io, NOS. I would have been tearing my few remaining hairs out of my head. It takes grande cojones to be a high-end consumer.

Anyone know why sometimes you can edit a post and sometimes not???? Ain't progress grand??
$8K cart is of course what I meant.

So would you feel better, or at least less upset, if the manufacturer had tested and hand selected the cartridge in a manner not available to normal purchasers?

First of all, there are plenty of audio manufacturers who test/burn-in EVERY product they ship. Carts, electronics, speakers. For a flagship product that is basically handmade, the consumer has every right to expect that. If I were in the market for an $8 cart or a $40,000 amp I'd demand it. At those stratospheric MSRP price points (assuming street price is also at the very top end), I'd want the reviewer's sample and mine to be virtually identical. It's not like people are lined up out the door waiting to snatch these things off the shelf! Or maybe that's what the line of Saudi princes I saw when I was in NY for the show last month was all about?

Dear Onhwy61: I think that could exist a potential problem with all the Anna cartridge samples ( especially the early ones. ):

for the cartridge customers that buy every new pricey cartridge every " new kid on the block ) could be not a problem because with the next new cartridge they bought the Anna goes to the closets or to other second hand buyer but the ones that normally put over 3-4K hours in a cartridge could be that the problem showed on the MF review can repeat over the time over several hours of playback. No one knows if this could or not happen and if I were an Anna owner then as you say I will ask to Ortofon for an inspection or and extended warranty time in case that rpoblem comes again.

I love Ortofon cartridges and own or owned/heard almost all top different cartridge series to A90. In the past as I posted at begin of this thread Ortofon marketed an overall new cartridge design that was the great MC 2000 that came with problems in suspension and the stylus glue on the cantilever: suddenly the stylus unglued with out reason. This happened sometimes at the first playback hours and sometimes after several playback hours and that's why I said that could exist a potential trouble down there for the Anna owners.

Pity that this happened with a so old and well regarded everywhere cartridge builders as Ortofon. Like all of you posted all is Ortofon own culprit and IMHO there is no excuse for what happened.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

So would you feel better, or at least less upset, if the manufacturer had tested and hand selected the cartridge in a manner not available to normal purchasers?

Whether the cartridge cost $10k or $100 it should be functional and meet its specs right out of the box. The unfortunate reality is that this minimal condition is not always met. Mercedes cars do get recalled, your $10 million custom home can have HVAC issues and Boeing spent $32 billion developing and testing the 787 Dreamliner and still had electric problems when the jet was put in service. Since things can go wrong the real issue then becomes how do companies deal with in service design problems. According to the MF review Ortofon replaced the cartridge. The fact that they had to provide a replacement twice is downright embarrassing, but as a consumer what more can you ask the company to do? There are details missing in the review, but I would want Ortofon to provide a prompt replacement, at no cost and with little or no questions. If that's the case, then Ortofon acted in a classy manner.

If I was an owner of an Anna and I read the review I would be disturbed. I'd contact my dealer and Ortofon and get a detailed explanation of what the problem is and whether my cartridge was effected. I probably send it back Ortofon to have them inspect my cartridge, at their cost.

If I didn't own an Anna and I read the review, I'd think what does any of that have to do with me?

I don't think folks are up in arms just because an 8k cartridge exists. They (I include myself so should say "we") are upset that something so expensive was submitted 3 times before the company got it right.....to a reviewer no less! And to top it off, the reviewer then goes and raves it. This is the irresponsibility (on the company's part, not Fremer) in this hobby that so many of us are upset about.

I don't see threads on expensive Dynavectors, Air Tights, or Lyras where folks are this upset.

We all know what it means when the company can't even get a sample to a reviewer correct on the first 2 tries: it means that lots of bad ones went to consumers. I think folks should be riled up at that thought!

Garcia, fantastic,more dribble. I would certainly have been shafted if I had paid your price for my amp.

Enjoy you fun mass debating :-)

Downunder...You clearly DO care what I think, and that's sweet. If you spend $42,000 on amps you have every right to be testy when a forum has fun with 'em. Stand by your Dan! (this comment has been deemed 100% factual)

Downunder, I did not have the foggiest notion that you owned a Momentum amplifier. I in no way meant to insult the product. I know zero about them, but the chassis is indeed a thing of beauty. If you like it, that is all that counts. When I read the paragraph you quoted, it seemed that D'Agostino was saying, in effect, it was not "this thing" that went wrong, it was "that thing". A distinction without a difference. I actually have some empathy for a low volume manufacturer of an exotic high end piece, when such issues arise during review. For all we know, the problem could well have been related to abuse by the end user. HP was well known to blow things up due to his utter lack of technical knowledge and then blame the equipment.

Syntax, Great post.

Lewm, if you search D'Agostino in the amps section of audio you will see the thread and response from Dan. I can't add anymore context, however it was clear from Dan's response it had nothing to do with overheating or any other conspiracy theory. It was a component in the power on circuit.
Atkinson also responded in audio asylum critics where he did not run the 2nd sample for the normal time due to deadlines.

Anyway,never heard of any owner with reliability issues of the Momentum amps, including myself - and I run them hard.

Garcia, I really don't give a toss what you think, however at least be factual with your statements.

Since this thread is about, among other things, Ortofon QC, I thought I'd let everyone know that my rebuilt A90 arrived this morning. It looks absolutely brand-new--with a new serial number on the box and stamped into the motor/generator assembly. I examined it closely with a digital microscope before mounting it on a Tri-planar. They absolutely nailed it. Everything aligns perfectly; the workmanship is immaculate. And the sound? Already, it seems better than the original, if that's possible. I'm extremely pleased. Hats off to Ortofon!

Downunder...I'm sorry if my enjoying expensive gear meltdowns apparently has upset you. Had I known there were those out there who's emotional investment in Beloved Audio Brands has rendered them so highly sensitive to my expressed enjoyment of review issues with elite gear, I might have been more gentle with my posts (although most likely not). D'Agostino and Ortophon should be proud to know they have little friends out there who will rise to defend brands that otherwise would suffer the cruel injustice of mirthful forum posting.

I agree with Syntax.

Regarding the Anna, it is very interesting that Ortofon did not address this in the Manufacturer's Comments in the same Stereophile issue. I wonder why.

I do wish more members owned it so we could hear from them about the quality and sonics. The $7-10K cartridge market is getting crowded so I think it would be interesting if we could read direct comparisons between say the Atlas, the Anna, the Dynavector, Koetsu, AirTight, MSL.

Dear Downunder, I saw a mention of the problem with the Momentum amp in some other thread. No details were provided. But in your quote from D'Agostino, he says, "The amplifier in question failed from a non related component failure in the power on circuit". So, I gather he is saying that the amp did not fail (or shut down) because of overheating but for a different reason. I don't see how that gets the amplifier off the hook, as it were. It apparently did fail by some mechanism during a review process. I personally would not let that deter me from purchasing the product, if I were in the market, but it does possibly raise a concern about reliability, does it not? Perhaps I am misunderstanding D'Agostino's statement. Was the failure external to the amplifier itself?

"Swampwalker, Swampwalker, Swampwalker,..." 97 more to go...:)

Actusreus; Actusreus; Actusreus...I think I've got it... Acutusrex; Atcususreus; Acuteresus; !@#$%&. ;-)

never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Words to live by!!! And, what the heck does

The amplifier in question failed from a non related component failure in the power on circuit.

mean? What the heck is a non-related component??? I say again, how do you send an audio component that costs as much as a car out to a reviewer without at least running it in to make sure that the bloody thing works!! I agree w Wolf. It's entertaining. A little bit on the "watching a train wreck" side, but since no one is physically injured; what the hay. Nothing against Mr. D'Agostino, whose cred is impeccable, but the fact that other amps run hotter, while true, is totally irrelevant to the fact that the unit under review did not operate within its design envelope. For this kind of luxury product, that's inexcusable. IMO. YMMV.

Any manufacturer needs to have a very expensive nit (cartridge, Arm, Amp ...) for some simple reasons

1. He needs it when he wants to be taken serious

2. He needs it for his dealers (profit)
and in a way for his own to make some money with a few sold items instead of selling 50 of the cheap ones.

Anyone who saves the money for such an item WANTS it to be better than his pervious one. Maybe it is better, maybe it is worth the price difference, maybe.... maybe...in the end it is the decision of the buyer.
A review can be a review, it can be also a Product Placement, it can be a opinion from a reviewer who likes or dislikes something. It doesn't matter. Important is the product placement.
What is the definition of "good" or "great"?
Mainly it is also a personal impression, the majority does not really compare, (what they do it, do I like it better than the one before), only a minority compares a unit with a cheaper, but "good" one.
This is the main reason why a top cartridge for a low price (whatever this will be) will never get the respect it deserves, because everyone (or 95%) thinks, "hey, this is a top one for 2k but there is the next for 4.5K, and that's the game.
There are also a group of Audiophiles out there who WANT to spend minimum 8k for a cartridge/cable/Arm...and a Dealer wants to serve.
Maybe Ortofon had a problem with Quality control who knows. But what would happen when the Cartridge was ok, but not for the reviewer for whatever reasons. Some of them have a very big Ego. They have a very strong position and no Manufacturer will write that a reviewer is simply too handicapped to do it right...
Each his own but all of you read the reviews, all of you have an opinion and I think all of you had the experience that a Class A or B rating in whatever mag is simply wrong in Past or Presence.
No matter which Product, good or bad, cheap or expensive, you will find for everything someone who loves it and recommends it. Based on various reasons (Profit, saving, limited funds, endless funds, fun, color, Style, reputation and so on), sound quality or Performance is not always the priority. It is in discussions among us but there is always the golden rule of audio: Ask 4 Audiophiles and you get 5 opinions.
At the end of day it is a personal choice.

Wolf-Garcia, never let the facts get in the way of a good story. Dan D took the time to explain what happened to his amp, you were on the the meltdown thread, so you certainly saw his response. See below for your reference.
Either you have nothing better to do or just a plain dick.

I am sorry that you interpret this as a melt down. The Momentum amplifiers normal operating temperature is 42-44c(107-111f)the temperature rise to 48c (118f) is inconsequential. The amplifier in question failed from a non related component failure in the power on circuit.The Momentum amplifier is designed to shut down at 70c (158f). The unit under test was not close to that temperature.Many amplifiers at higher temperatures than that.If John had continued his test the second amplifier would have passed witout any problems. The Momentum amplifier has more than enough thermal head room for any load or speaker. I was unable to give comment until the unit was returned to me from testing. Thank you for your concern.
Dan D'Agostino

This and the D'Agostino amp meltdown incident remain undisputed classics of the "Wheels Came Off But Otherwise It's Great" review niche. Rarely does extreme high end gear provide so much entertainment without having to listen to it.

Swampwalker,
I'm hand-writing "Swampwalker" 100 times as my homework as we speak.
"Swampwalker, Swampwalker, Swampwalker,..." 97 more to go...:)

Pops- I am sure you are correct; maybe that's why I am not a CEO of a major corporation. I also believe that mistakes can happen and you generally can't take a person's measure by one event, but c'mon???? It's your flagship product, hand assembled in very limited quantities for a very select, niche market, that will ALL (and I pretty mean pretty much ALL) be reading the review. How can you NOT test that individual unit to make sure it works perfectly???? It's not a blind audition. You get to pick the unit that goes out. And it is defective. TWICE!!!!! I would think that they would have resigned w/o having to be fired. In the good old days, they would have been given the opportunity to take the honorable way out...a 38 caliber letter of resignation ;-)

05-07-13: Swampwalker
If that were my company, the head of QC, head of marketing, and the QC inspector of those units would all be looking for new jobs.

It happens more often than you would believe in all industries (i mean faulty products or mistakes) and rarely is someone's head taken!