For those that have separate Streamers & DACS

@brskie 

Congratulations. Great streamer. You should really enjoy it.

@brskie 

Congratulations, great decision and investment!  N20 is a superb player. 

@lalitk @ghdprentice @sns @lordmelton @verdantaudio 

and others on this thread. This thread has been SO helpful in helping me narrow my choices. Just reading through this thread clarified so much for me .Bravo, you have really kept a great discussion moving forward. So...I just purchased an N20!

Many thanks to all of you for this great read.

Bruce

Antipodes K50 mixed with either Nagra or Audio Note UK DACs are brutal good combos.

😉 the music.

Cheers

After trying many combination streamer/DACs and spending thousands of dollars I have been a very happy Musica Pristina A Capella III owner for a year now.
This streamer has been Roon Ready for many years and in fact was designed as a Roon endpoint from the beginning.
The A Capella III provides my preferred output, I2S, and is hands down audibly better than anything I’ve owned (even at twice the cost).
Made in US, with direct support by the Designer, this streamer is excellent.
Kevin happily offers an in home trial, and rarely ever gets a returned unit.
Check out the A Capella III.

I prefer a separate server and DAC, compared to a combo server. I am using an Aurender N-100 and a Lampizator Atlantic DAC and am pleased with the overall sound.  I will say the HiFi Rose looks very interesting and my be something to look at down the road. 

I have a 10th gen i7 NUC and iFi Zen with their top power supply..which is still a switching supply (worth the expense). I will be eliminating the NUC’s fan. This feeds a McIntosh MA12000. If I put more money into this chain it will be to upgrade the D/A. I’m not convinced that more invested in the NUC will provide better sound. Upgrade the iFi maybe.

Nobody noticed that Innuos now produce a series of streamers then?

I started with a Bluesound N130 w/ PD Creative power supply, and that fed via coax to a Denafrips Venus 2 and then a Terminator Plus. Overall I was happy with it and for the price, the Bluesound was pretty darn good as a pure streamer. BlueOS has its quirks but overall I thought it was good (on Android devices).

I then recently got a Lumin U1 (from an Audiogon member) feeding the Terminator Plus first via coax then via AES. It wasn't a night and day difference compared to the Bluesound, but it was a substantial and noticeable improvement across the board. Everything improved, particularly soundstage, bass, midrange, and separation. I'm still learning the Lumin app but it's ok, some things I like more about it than BlueOS some things I don't. 

But overall I am very content, and I too was specifically looking for a pure streamer as I like having external DACs to allow for changes on that end in the future (if desired).

just as another data point, i have had no problems with the network connection and visibility with my m1 se using network card

@verdantaudio For whatever reason, I couldn't get my network to see the M3.  I rebooted the router and switches three times, restarted the Innuos and tried connecting via the Innuos ethernet direct connection as well as other places on the network.  I'm perplexed as to why I could not get it to connect, but was also running out of time on the demo so had to use the USB input for my comparisons.  My short answer (as demoed) is that I really like the Bricasti but it's not a perfect match with the Fleetwood Deville's.  Thanks for all the suggestions! 

I run a Small Green Computer i5 music server connected to a Bricasti M3 with a network card.  The i5 has a number of SSD options for your music collection and comes with Roon core installed.i I chose this combination (separate sever, combined network card/DAC) so I could locate music server away from my audio system and near my cable modem and router.  Everything sounds great (to me) and has worked flawlessly for about a year.  The Bricasti network card is really great and very reliable.  

Did you get a connection finally. Other macs shouldn’t cause an issue.  Did you restart the Innuos?  There is something wonky preventing the two from talking.  Does your Innuos have a direct Ethernet connection between device and DAC?  I think it does?  Or are you connecting the M3 to the router?  

Lindemann Limetree Bridge... going into RME ADE2. Both German. Both no-nonsense and great build quality. 

Tried Lumin etc, sent back. No major improvement in quality to my ears (speakers are Dynaudio Focus XD... pretty decent quality powered speakers). Hated Bluesound. Not impressed with IFI or Bluesound for wifi capabilities. 

@badgerdms I'm not familiar with Briscati dacs, but verdantaudio has good advice. Let us know if both Briscati and Innuos showing up on network at router. If you've never accessed router, go to 192.168.1.1, your router should show up and show devices connected to it, sorry if this seems dumb, I don't know how familiar you are with networks. I can't think of a reason it wouldn't show up assuming you only have Innuos and Briscati in streaming chain post router.

The Bricasti M5 would be a first rate option.  The M5 is at its best when connecting to a DAC via AES. 

+1 for the Bricasti M5 with AES.   I've tried my M5 with USB, SPDIF, and AES and prefer the AES.   I've decided M5 with AES to my Meitner MA3 bests the integrated Ethernet streamer in the DAC.   I also purchased an opticalRendu to compare its USB (used an EtherREGEN for fiber conversion) with the M5 and thought its USB matched it in sound quality.   The M5 can be had used now and then for $1600ish which makes it very competitive in my opinion for a high quality Roon endpoint with USB, SPDIF, and AES options...

Another for/with Bryston BDP3

Thanks!  No Mac minis but some other Macs in the house.  I've rebooted once but will shut down the macs and try again. 

@badgerdms odds are you aren’t getting an IP address on the device.  Restart your router.  If you have a Mac Mini on your network turn it off while you try to connect the M3. Restart the server feeding the M3.  
 

those are next steps

It's not showing up on Roon to enable at all.   If I use the USB input, it's there, not when I switch to the ethernet port.  A little baffling.

@badgerdms in the Roon “audio” menu under settings you need to find the M3 and enable it.  Once you do that, you need to select the M3 as a zone.  If you have done that already, then I need to dig a little deeper.  

For anyone with experience with the Bricasti stuff.  I've got a local owner who is letting me demo his M3.  When I use the USB input from my Innuous Zennith MkIII, no problem.  When I try to use the ethernet port (which is lit up and connected), Roon doesn't see it and one of the displays says "LAN OFF".  Is there a way to turn it on or am I doing something wrong?

@malibu457 

I agree. I'm using an upgraded Node 2022. I'd like to see a streamer only from Innuos. 

I have tried several servers, but nothing comes even close to the refined sound and resolution of the Evo master. To be honest, I do not use their highly proclaimed 432 Hz conversion, as I feel that with all possible plugins off it sounds the best.

the biggest fault about the Innuos Zenith 3 is that it is a CD ripper. who needs that and why pay for it? Innuos needs to make a streamer only.

Auralic Aries G2.1 and G1 streamers are the peak value for that category. 1GB in-memory processing cache and you get to use their Lightning DS control app, which obviates the need for a Roon Core or any other core, sounding better than Roon. In two systems, I mate my Auralic Aries G1 streamer to a Bricasti M1 LE Gold sigma-delta DAC, and in the other, the Auralic Aries G2.1 is mated to a Bricasti M21 DAC that allows sigma-delta, R2R or DSD in analog processing.

I have not found a DAC yet for which Auralic's streamers don't improve the sound over direct DAC connection from a computer-based streamer-server.

Auralic also put a high effort into their Wifi implementation to make it as quiet-as or quieter than Ethernet. It's true. This was important to me as I needed to feed two systems from a common 4TB ripped digital source along with Qobuz and Tidal Masters, without running Ethernet to both. Auralic suggests defaulting to Wifi, and I can say in my environment, the wifi input is quieter than Ethernet.

The fact that I have the Auralic streamers mated to Bricasti DACs (I've also used MHDT Pagoda Balanced and Atlantis to equal effect, and have a Holo May in for evaluation now) is less important than that the streamers improve the musicality of the DACs. I've tried. I can make many modest DACs perform above their segment with a stellar streamers. So while I am not making a blanket statement, in principle I advocate segratating streamers from DACs, and nailing the streamer first.

Phil

I moved from a Bluesound Node 2i to an Auralic Aries G1 with both feeding into the DAC on a PS Audio Gain Cell. 

The Node 2i is a great product and I always thought it had a great sound and features for the money.

The Aries G1 is a step up with great detail and overall SQ and is built like a tank with two heavy duty power supplies. The Lightning DS application is also a huge step up from the Bluesound application with a lot of features for those that like to fine-tune output settings.

Aurender here-- just traded up from ACS10 to A30-- WOW-- Great dac!!!!

Troy Boys,

Good to know you found Innuos to be the best SQ.

I bought one with:

-No DAC

-Rips

-Stores

To me that is the simplest solution. I shopped  2 years back and got

a new one for $2,200. Zen 3. 

I stopped in at Axpona and looked at the Aurrender display. They have a model

for $5k? that appeared quite impressively built. 

I'll keep mine. 

correction: I was running a NUC+LPS to my DAC with ethernet, via a Bonn 8 network switch.

I was running a NUC+LPS directly into my DAC via ethernet.

I then bought a second hand Antipodes EX for £2,000 (£4,500 new) which acts as a renderer (but can also be roon core and streamer) between the NUC and the DAC. It has 2 ethernet ports so it isolates the DAC from the network switch.

I thought i had taken most of the noise out of the system (Bonn 8 network switch+LPS and a PSM 156 Power conditioner) upgraded fuses and power cables.

The step up in SQ with the EX in the mix, was far more significant than i was expecting.

I recently demoed an EVO 432 server but was not able to hear much difference and certainly, at £5k it was not tempting. The £2k cost of the EX was a bargain and i would have paid well over £5k for this level of improvement.

Good luck. 

I have owned Aurender (very good), nucleus + (very good) and innuos.  With the new Innuos Sense app, the Innuos is exceptional for the money…. One small caveat:

Innuos sounds its best with either FLAC or WAV files.  There is a small but significant reduction in quality with any of the Apple format files (AIFF, ALAC).  I have discussed this with Innuos as well as other Innuos owners and understand that the Apple formats require a bit more processing.  The Innuos software is clearly optimized for the others.  Mind you, this is “nitpicking” but to any of my audiophile friends, I recommend the most expensive Innuos server you can afford.  Even the zenMini (must be with external power supply) is very good for the money, but every increase yields a meaningful improvement.  Integration with QoBuz is exceptional.  I haven’t tried Tidal.  Roon works well but at an acoustic and pocketbook cost.  Good luck all!

I like Lumin U1mini and SBooster with Schitt Yggdrasil.

I think SQ/price is hard to beat.

Lindemann Limetree Bridge with Denafrips Ares 2. Good combination for the prices paid, both discounted made it even better.  Preferred over Sonore mR that it replaced and Lumin Mini which I tried.

other terrific (and i do mean terrific) low cost streamer option is the ifi zen stream, with an add on linear power supply, ideally at 12v dc, total cost about $600

@hilde45 

i always assumed the pd creative ps upgrade for 2i node improved the analog out much more than the rca spdif digital out, as ps improvement tends to make the analog sound purer whereas digital bitstream benefits most from superior clocking (not affected by the p-s mod) and digital noise suppression (only somewhat affected) ... did you feel the rca digital out sounded noticeably better with the added mods to your 2i?

@lalitk and all:

$118 PD Creative board

$140 Acopian linear power supply (used, via Ebay, Florida Industrial, vendor)

$258 total.

Much better deal than the Teddy Pardo option, though that looks nicer.

Here's a photo of the powersupply sitting behind my rack, Node just where it usually lives.

@lalitk 

@hilde45 

Yes, I do think it would be helpful for many. Good suggestion.

@hilde45

Thanks for posting the link for Node 2 power supply upgrade. May I know your total investment in retail with Node 2 + external DAC + power supply board + LPS + Digital cable + extra power cord? I think it would be a good info for our readers to know the total upgrade cost vs a one box streamer with a built in DAC.
Thank you!

So, Anipodes S30 could be setup just as a player and you would just run Roon core on the Zenith.  I have never had a customer match an antiopdes player with another brands server.  It would only connect via USB.  This is not my first choice.  

The Bricasti M5 would be a first rate option.  The M5 is at its best when connecting to a DAC via AES. 

The Chord 2Go/2Yo which is slightly less expensive is also excellent.  It has a digital coax and BNC output that are very good.  I would argue it might be slightly better than the M5 if you prefer USB.  

If you got the Bricasti M3 with network card, you would simply run an ethernet cable to it.  That is likely the best performing and least expensive option.  

@jjss49 Sorry -- messed up the links.

Here's the LINK for the BlueSound Node board -- I have the 2i. 

@verdantaudio Thanks!  I do have an Innuos Zenith MkIII in the house so I have the server end covered if I need that for whatever goes into this system.

@hilde45

@tcotruvo I have a Node and upgraded the power supply by swapping in this board. Found the power supply for a fraction of MSRP on ebay. Sounds wonderful.

is your modded node a 2i or a ’3/n130’? do they have that polish ps mod card for the new one now?  also, pls check your links... are they correct?

also are you using the analog outs or digital output?

hope you have been well dave

@phastm3 "that sounds a lot like Dr.Vinyl’s old system…he had that same setup last year"

He still sells the Backert Labs and McGary, and yes most of it came from him.

@tcotruvo I have a Node and upgraded the power supply by swapping in this board. Found the power supply for a fraction of MSRP on ebay. Sounds wonderful.

Bluesound NODE $600.  Lumin T2 $4500.

I have a NODE and it is working well for me.  I don’t know how much better an upgrade would sound, because I’ve never hear anything else.

Taiko Extreme

The Zenith Mk3 USB output is noisy.  You don't know what you are missing until you place a very good DDC on the USB output of the Zenith.  I am using an Audio-GD DI20 HE, and the difference in quality is outstanding with the DDC.

The all in one unit will have been optimally integrated with clocks and power supplies, result, likely less noise and jitter than mixing and matching various components from different manufacturers.

i think this is an important advantage of combined units... the interface can be managed using two separate units, clocking, cabling etc but a well engineered single unit would lock in a high quality solution

@cleeds  Only saying streaming dac CAN be good choice.

I do like the NUC servers, if only they had two network ports. There are some builders out there supplying various atx motherboard builds with customer requested options such as optical ports, optimized rendering ports a la usb, spdif. two ethernet ports with all of them. Also choice of Linux, Windows OS. Costs all over the place depending on build. Biggest issue with any atx build is power supply, atx boards require multiple voltages, big money for the good lps, probably reason for rare off the shelf examples. 

Extremely experienced streamers at audiophilestyle.com using either diy or contracted custom builds based on atx boards; or servers in Taiko Extreme, Pink Faun echelon. Ultimately, I believe in going the ultimate server/streamer route, no external streamer necessary. The all in one unit will have been optimally integrated with clocks and power supplies, result, likely less noise and jitter than mixing and matching various components from different manufacturers.