Footers under my speakers double the perceived value of my speakers!
My first experience with putting footers under my speakers was with Tannoy Westminster Royals. With some difficulty, I put Mapleshade heavy footers under them. I was amazed. These $20k speakers, all of a sudden, became $30+ speakers! These days, I am into Stillpoints. Same thing-even more. My $30k speakers now sound like $60k speakers. I mean the imaging, the definition, the bass and everything just sounds fantastically Improved. I just put on the Stillpoints yesterday. This morning I jumped out of bed early just to be able to turn on the stereo and be floored. BTW- my speakers are 200 lbs and the Stillpoints Minis are strong enough. Pretty cheap for such an improvement!
Douglas, I have carefully read all of the above, and I have to conclude that you are much less informed than I had previously thought. The OP is correct from my experience with speakers and DACs. Good isolation/draining devices can make sonic improvements that are far from "trivial". I will freely admit that my system would benefit from room treatment which I have not done because I don't want to take down pictures, as well as the expense and experimentation needed; but I will not deny the benefit of doing so as many members have experienced and reported here. I don't respect you for the blind spot you have shown here, and I also think your tone is a bit pompous.
Another available retailer is Crutchfield, which has 35 of 37 reviews of 4 or 5 stars; so, the satisfaction rate is still running at 93%. So, the reporting results are quite consistent.
I will be putting isolation products to the test in my room (again, as I have several times in the past, every time proving insipid/marginal) when I receive the anticipated amps that will be under review. They will be both new. One will be "burned in" by myself while the other will be new. One will have proper stand while the other will sit on a plywood plank on the carpet, one will have isolation devices underneath while the other will sit on its stock feet. I'm not going to proclaim what will happen, I will compare them.
This is just an example of the type of comparisons I run with gear. The last time I conducted such a comparison was between three different elements of an audio system, and that article, "Audiophile Law: Thou Shalt Not Overemphasize Burn In", can be seen at Dagogo.com. Oh, the accolades over burn in! Oh, how necessary, and how one can't possibly be serious if they don't burn in gear... Blah, blah, blah. I actually do comparisons regularly.
You think I haven't put such things to the test? My Vapor Audio Joule White speakers came with two sized spikes, and of differing materials. The larger spikes were a PITA to move the speaker around. I removed them and tried rubber hockey pucks. Yes, hockey pucks; no appreciable difference in sound quality. Why? because the speakers remained at the same height. Later, I put the speakers on casters due to ease of moving in and out of the room. Nice bump in performance from el cheapo casters! Immediately noticeable. If I were a sensationalist I would say it made them sound like speakers twice as expensive! The improvement was obvious, but not due to vibration control, but due to elevation of the speaker. Also, a nice bump in performance by putting some lifts in the back of the top module, thus changing the relative position of the baffles for mid/treble relative to bass. Were these astounding, amazing changes? No. People who make claims like that have no concept of the spectrum of performance and how little such things contribute.
I have better time to spend and better places to spend my money on audio than pucks and spikes. The real gains for audio are in the systems that are built, not the doodads that you stick around the room or underneath components or speakers. Note that I am not discussing analogue here, as I only use digital source. If you feel my methods as a reviewer are not good enough, so be it. There are plenty of other reviewers who will spend inordinate time on these things. Imo, they are getting you to waste your time and money versus spending it on superior methods of system building.
But, as I said, this all will be compared once again, even though I have done so several times in the past with assorted isolation devices.
Final thought; it's such a shame that as prestigious a speaker company as Tannoy can't get it right with their footers. Shame, shame. The world will be so happy to hear that you can get a speaker to sound like 2x the price by putting X brand isolation device under it!
I'm not interested in marginal improvements to audio systems. I spend time on things that vastly advance audio systems. I am also not interested in ranging argument about picking out phrases of my discussion to debate. You either agree or disagree, so be it. :)
The IsoAcoustics website has an interesting interview with their CEO (Dave Morrison) being interviewed by someone from Music Direct; so, you get viewpoints from both a retailer and the manufacturer. Dave uses the adjective "smeared" a lot in the interview, which I find both accurate and interesting since that is a rarely used word in the audiophile vocabulary.
The fact that Dave started in "pro audio" might win over some skeptics, or how closely he has worked with Paul Barton of PSB speakers. What ultimately convinced me to buy the product is after Stereophile named it a "product of the year" in 2018, I never once saw this product show up on a used audio website, nor did I see any retailer ever put them on sale. Both seemed to be indicators of a good product and I'm glad I trusted my instincts....but, I wish I had of done so sooner.
What works for me with a heavy load (70 pounds of concrete) is the coupling-decoupling processus in the different densities materials i was using in sandwiches under my gear:
4 quartz feet -granite plate- sorbothane-granite plate-cork plate-bamboo plate- sorbothane- speakers or amplifier or dac...
They are on my desk with all the other component.... No vibration under my fingers....Not perfect but very efficient at low cost....
Hi-Fi for the poor is my motto... Homemade creation is my act.... :)
I've used same speakers upstairs on suspended plywood and downstairs on solid foundation (thin but dense carpet and pad). Same height. The same isolation under the speakers does nothing on the solid concrete foundation.
I'm using good old American steel under my stand mounts. Less than 1/4" they have elevated the speakers in position, and a lot in performance. Smalley wave springs on Ebay cost me under $20 shipped.
Isolation works very well for me.
All my electronics are isolated on springs, as is my sub.
douglas_schroeder said: "Scary how few audiophiles can arrive at correct conclusions regarding such things. The improvement is not due to vibration control, but to physically elevating the speaker. The speaker will sound far better with raised soundstage. Just one reason why smallish speakers are inferior. Tweak, tuning sellers certainly have your number, and the isolation authorities show their ignorance. :) If people are so easily led to false conclusions on this, it's no wonder they pursue insipid methods of system building."
I am truly shocked by that comment Douglas. Can it be that with all of the hi end gear that you audition and are exposed to that you actually believe that these devices do no more than elevate speakers? If you have tried them and believe that; I no longer trust your judgement at all. If you haven't, you need to try them as soon as possible. Call it what you want, isolation, draining...whatever; but these devices have a dramatic effect on loudspeaker performance, and it is undeniable.
I replaced the standard spikes on my towers with a set of Gaia isolation. Measuring the spikes vs. the Gaia, elevation was less than 1/4 inch. Improvement was remarkable. +1 for Gaia.
Scary how few audiophiles can arrive at correct conclusions regarding such things. The improvement is not due to vibration control, but to physically elevating the speaker. The speaker will sound far better with raised soundstage. Just one reason why smallish speakers are inferior. Tweak, tuning sellers certainly have your number, and the isolation authorities show their ignorance. :) If people are so easily led to false conclusions on this, it’s no wonder they pursue insipid methods of system building.
Oh c’mon Doug-you know better. Every competent speaker designer understands the vertical and horizontal dispersion pattern of their speakers and proper listening position. They account for it 95% of the time. If anything, the height of the Gaia footers would raise most loudspeakers above the optimal height, not into. I have not tried every footer under every speaker and nobody else has either. I am sure, though, that the entire matter is loudspeaker and listening room dependent. Another thing that is certain is that most competent loudspeaker designers do not feel that horizontal compliance is a good idea. Spikes and coupling are the consensus of the engineers, not absorbers. I traded email with John Devore on the subject. He strongly advises against the idea for my O/93’s. My Spendor D7.2’s rely heavily on spikes. They are not the same speaker without the spikes,
Scary how few audiophiles can arrive at correct conclusions regarding such things. The improvement is not due to vibration control, but to physically elevating the speaker. The speaker will sound far better with raised soundstage. Just one reason why smallish speakers are inferior. Tweak, tuning sellers certainly have your number, and the isolation authorities show their ignorance. :) If people are so easily led to false conclusions on this, it's no wonder they pursue insipid methods of system building.
As @mitchagain said recently purchased the IsoAcoustics Gaia speaker footers and I was both stunned and impressed at what a positive difference that they made
I did the same for my tannoy arden and was a bit skeptical but the difference is mind blowing. Tight bass and midrange opens up. Even playing music quite loufly there is no transmission of bass vibration into wooden sprung floor speakers sit on
I recently purchased the IsoAcoustics Gaia speaker footers and I was both stunned and impressed at what a positive difference that they made.
Of the four websites that sell them (Amazon, Audio Advisor, Music Direct & The Music Room), there are only user reviews on Amazon and Music Direct, with 89 of 99 Amazon reviews giving them 4 or 5 stars, while 28 of 28 Music Direct reviewers gave them 4 or 5 stars. I think it is statistically improbable that 93% of those purchasers are delusional.
Perhaps the highest compliment that I can give them is I think I have been cured of the need to upgrade any aspect of my system.
mgliks, The thing I do not see described is the flooring on which the Tannoys sit. i.e. carpet or hard surface? Also slab or joists? These two factors make a big difference. From the orgasmic description I am fairly sure you have a hard surface not on a slab.
Fat or muddy bass obscures detail in the midrange which then also negatively affects imaging. Very common with suspended plywood floors. Isolation helps clean that up. I use Auralex Subdude iso pads under my floorstanders and the difference is much as heardthat describes.
Unfortunately isolation does not increase speaker value. It just lets you hear more of the speakers and less of the floor.
Well, I gotta say, I was a non-believer in anti-vibration/isolation pads. But no longer. I have a difficult audio room that is large, heavy padded furniture, lots of glass, high slanted ceiling, etc. I just didn't feel that I was getting good tight bass. The speakers sit on tile over a suspended floor. They sounded a bit "tubby" in the bass. So I thought why not try some pads. Amazingly the improvements went beyond the bass. Yes, the bass tightened up but I also got more clarity from the imaging. Hard to describe but they went from "very nice" to "wow" in all aspects. And, my wife also noticed the difference. Hearing is believing.
And AGAIN............Does millercarbon have stock in Black Diamond Racing cones? I have used them and, while beneficial in some applications, I reserve space in my pockets for essential things like car keys. There is no one answer to isolation/vibration control. Some products work better than others depending on equipment and environment.
Yes folks, vibration control is a thing. From back in the early 1990's people were trying all kinds of things, everything from tennis balls and phone books to bricks and boards, and noticing an effect on the sound. Not always good. When it was good though it could be really good. My first set of Black Diamond Racing Cones were so good I started carrying them around in my pocket trying them under everything. One time there was a $5k Sony CD player, and if you can remember $5k was a lot of money back in 1993. It seemed unlikely three $20 Cones would do anything, especially considering how built like a tank that Sony was. But no, it was amazing. Not some struggle to hear it might be a little better, no, this was like a whole component upgrade.
Again, this was early 1990's. So the surprise is not that you're hearing a huge improvement. BDR was huge, and that was 30 years ago. Everything else has improved immensely in that time, it defies all reason to think vibration control would have not improved as well. What surprises me, again and again, is how many audiophiles are so out of date they still don't get it.
Not you mglik, you got it as soon as you heard it. But these other ones. The ones with their heads in the sand. Sad. So very very sad.
I put granite slabs under my speakers, which are on a hardwood floor, and the sound did clean up noticeably. Best part about it was, the guy at the granite store gave them to me for free.
Wow ,I don't know what your on but ,give me some .Ok you think you can make your speakers sound like they have increased there valve by double.With heavy duty maple.footers .Whatever flows your boat .
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