Feedback on Costco & Amazon sound absorption panels from folks who have purchased them.

Owens Corning 703 is good stuff for sound absorption panels.  This link shows one fairly easy method of making your own panels out of OC acoustic insulation material (link).

I have not used the panels from Amazon or Costco. 

I did use room treatments from GIK. You can see some of the ceiling panels in my system. The results were great.

@mitch2 +1

I agree. Start with a pile of Owens Corning s 703 and 2 x 6 lumber. Make your own sound baffles. 4 inches of the stuff stops the proliferation of all sound, including the majority of bass frequencies.

When you have sound baffles that you can arrange around your speakers, you will get a clear understanding of what they can do and where to ultimately put them. What you hear is the music and not the room.

If you start there, you will likely spend a lot less on expensive wall materials that fit within a decor.

Etsy is a good place to find inexpensive wall hangings that absorb sound, but all of that is secondary to the grunt work the Owens Corning stuff provides.

I will check into the 703 material and see if the Mrs. can do something with it aesthetically wise.  My daughters house has the vinyl planking and it is really noisy.  Echos like crazy in her very large room with her Sonos setup.  That is what I need to avoid.  Hoping someone with the items I mentioned in the original post will chime in.  -John

@goodlistening64 and @jsd52756 

An interesting thing about the example in the link I posted previously is that the builder used an edge hardener instead of wood boards.  The end result appears to look pretty good so that may be a viable option instead of spending money on wood and mitering/connecting the edges.  I have not done it myself but I thought it looked like an interesting and easy approach.

I don't think 45 degree angles and mitering is necessary. To each his own, though.

Nails and glue - spray glue used to hold two 2" pieces of CW 703 together - and a visit to a fabric store to buy cool cheap cotton fabric to match the decor.

Mostly they blend in and don't stand out as they reside in low places up against walls or in corners. 

The 703 stuff is really just a few hours of work with a suggested mask with gloves, glue, utility knife, and hammer and nails. Oh, yeah, I painted the wood black and then stressed the edges so the panels look old.

Anything you buy is going to absorb far less sound than the 703 panels and cost far more. 

Sound diffusers, however, should be purchased as they are quite cheap (Etsy has some from Ukraine that are cool and really inexpensive) and while only generally a thin piece of wood with foam on the back, they serve the purpose well.

https://www.etsy.com/search?q=sound%20absorption%20panels&ref=auto-1&as_prefix=sound%20ab

@jsd52756 

With those Infinity speakers, the bulk of your sound waves required to dissipate will be low frequencies. Hence, wall treatments (I think of them as say higher than a couch) will be for higher frequencies and require far less to mitigate). Maybe only need to diffuse them.

Soft furniture (bigger the better), rugs, bookcases, etc certainly do help with bass waves that hang out in the lower regions, but if you take care of trapping and mitigating unwanted bass waves, the higher frequencies (ones that bounce around the room at higher than couch heights) should be fairly easy to understand how they manifest themselves within your space.

I would like to comment that after putting up 12 703 panels in my room,was one of the most transformative experiences to date. And truly, one of the most inexpensive tweaks that one could do. Getting a fabric that breathes such as burlap is just as important as the fiberglass panel. A good measure is to put the fabric up to your mouth and breathe in and out. There should be no restrictions in your airflow. The sound has to get into the fiberglass to do any good. Along with a nice thick rug, putting panels on the ceiling, known as clouds are just as important. Seems that you have a Costco it stands a reason that you have a commercial insulation distributor. I was able to get a better price than what is available on Amazon. At the end of all this, if you are not a DIY kind of person, even though this is a level One difficulty.  I recommend that you use a company like GIK or it’s equivalent. What’s good about these guys? Is you tell them about your room and they shoot you a suggestion based on science 🧫. Taking the guess work And research one needs to do. good luck in your endeavors, such a lucky man to have such a blank canvas. 

All good suggestions. I bought wood, insulation, and fabric, then hired a handyman to build and hang the panels. 

Insulation is light.  Simple butt joins on wood is sufficient and wood only need to be 1/2 to 5/8.  Get a cordless 16 or 18ga nail gun and glue.  Secure behind with cardboard. Simple.  Absorption isnt about mass.  Work with wife to staple a fabric of her choice.  Four hands help.  See 2ft x 4ft panels on my system page.  I have another decorator fabric one on the wall behind my head / seating spot.  Helped alot.  I used 3 in with mylar side out.  Cut others to 1ft x 4ft and wrapped in cotton color that disappears wall for 2 corners too.  Knauf brand has spec sheets showing attenuation and frequencies for thicknesses, densities..  

Hoping to derail the discussion, but how do you know where to place the panels?

@rvpiano 

To optimize sound quality in a listening room, acoustic panels should be strategically placed to absorb sound reflections and reduce echoes. Key areas to focus on include first reflection points on side walls, the rear wall, and sometimes the ceiling. Consider using panels on the back wall to prevent strong reflections, and in corners for bass absorption. 

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

1. First Reflection Points: 

• Side Walls:

  Place panels at the points where sound waves first bounce off the walls after leaving the speakers. This helps prevent comb filtering and other issues caused by reflections. 

• Mirror Trick:

  Use a mirror to identify these points by sitting in your listening position and having someone move a mirror along the wall until you can see the speakers. 

2. Rear Wall: 

• Absorption:

  Treat the back wall to prevent strong reflections that can muddy the sound. 

• Bass Traps:

  In corners, consider using bass traps for more effective low-frequency absorption. 

3. Ceiling: 

• Ceiling Clouds: A ceiling cloud can help minimize reflections from above, especially in rooms with high ceilings. 

4. Other Considerations: 

• Floor:

  A rug or carpet under the listening position can absorb first reflections from the floor, but avoid carpeting the entire floor as it primarily absorbs high frequencies. 

• Speaker Placement:

  Strategic speaker placement is crucial for overall sound quality, so consider the Golden Triangle method. 

• Symmetry:

  If possible, try to maintain symmetry in the placement of panels on the left and right sidewalls. 

• Acoustic Measurements:

  Measuring the room response after treatment can help you fine-tune your panel placement and coverage. 

You can watch this video to learn more about acoustic panel placement: 

30s

GIK Acoustics

YouTube · Jun 28, 2021

We have been through this before

we designed and fabricated all the acoustic panels for rev runs  renovation secret cinema

https://flic.kr/s/aHsk7BnbES

personally never liked Owens corning as an acoustic panels these types of panels absorb too much sound and make the room too dead they are great for slap echo only

instead we built our panels from https://www.acousticalsurfaces.com/sound-silencer/ceiling-wall-panel/

https://www.acousticalsurfaces.com/sound-silencer/ceiling-wall-panel/

theses panels are unique they are both absorptive  and diffusive at the same time

so they make the room sound better without making the room sound dead

give us a call we can assist you 

dave and Troy

Audio intellect NJ

@gkelly  Thank you so much for your detailed answer.

A lot of great ideas, thank you.  In regards to using the Corning 703, there is a great place in Burbank CA called Speaker City USA that sell speaker grill material on a giant roll.  Seems like a good material to try out.  -John

@mitch2 thanks for the DIY link

Timely thread as I’m also considering adding additional room treatments. 

I do not have any experience with Costco or Amazon vendors, only GIK - I have their 10" thick Sound blocks behind the speakers and wall diffusers.  

A couple of comments...

According to GIK, you wont get adequate bass absorption from thinner panels - it does take a lot of mass to absorb the lower frequencies.

Also try moving the speakers - it is often suggested to move speakers out far from the rear wall, however in my case, that made the bass from my from my Harbeth 40.3 XDs bloomy/muddy. The rear of the speakers are currently about 2 ft from the rear wall - much better than 5ft out. Obviously that’s my speakers in my room but it illustrates the variability in frequency responses based on speaker position alone, and it’s a free experiment.    

I tried a few from amazon and it "seemed' like it works. it dampens the subs resonance. BUT it does have the effective impact as compare to GiK or ATS panels that i use for the most part.

The key is to have an air gap between the insulation and the wall .  Set up your speakers in approximate location. You can take a mirror down the wall and tell her to say when the speaker reflection and mark that on the wall.  I have 3 2 x 4. Panels on each side. The insulation should have an 2" air gap from the wall.  I feel the best place to buy insulation and fabric is from a panel maker.  Bass traps are thicker.  A 24" triangular corner trap needs to go floor to ceiling.  In order to get 6" of insulation the front of the trap is 24" because, once again, you need the air gap in the corner.  You can make rectangles 8" deep as well.  The ceiling can have panels.  I bought 11 panels made up for $1100.  They are higher now

I just did my sound room with the Artika from Costco. It has been done for about 1 month and am very pleased with the sound of the room and the aesthetics. This is also my living room so had quite a bit of cutouts to do for tv, brackets etc. These panels were easy to form to any situation I needed just using a tape measure, razor knife and jig saw. My first round was using the 3m command strips and doing a systematic trial and error and developed a pattern that was very effective music wise and also withstood my OCD for symmetry. When I was satisfied, I used a little all-purpose spray glue and drywall screws. Cost was about $600 as I wasted some material. I was replacing foam egg carton style mounted on cardboard which did a good job of taking out my echo but made the room deader than I liked. The Artika was like popping your ears after a steep road climb with your radio on. I forgot how dead the room was after so many years. Hoped this helped and good luck.

You have to be cautious with sound absorbing panels since when utilized they can suck up all the sound so none reaches your ears. This is the dirty little secret nobody in the sound panel cabal wants you to know.

I used bass traps & acoustic panels from Acoustic America with very nice results. Extensive availability of fabrics, nice pricing, fast shipping. 

@jsd52756 

Traveled down the road of "acoustic materials" that at first bluster seemed to be the way to go. However, once the overall price hits you upside the head you realize that cotton...

Here is what AI states:

Yes, sound can travel through cotton, but it also absorbs sound effectively. Cotton's porous structure and soft, fibrous nature allow it to trap and dissipate sound energy, making it a good acoustic material. In other words, sound can pass through cotton, but it also loses energy and is not reflected as strongly as it would be from a hard surface. 

As Dave and Troy stated, you can create a dead room by using too much. This is especially true if your room is smallish. A big room will require quite a few of 703 baffles before the room gets to that point. 

There has been a fairly large uptick in commercial entities (restaurants, office buildings, etc) using noise barriers as privacy is becoming more important, even in public settings. Perhaps some of it started in the covid era where public places realized people do not like to listen to other people talk..or maybe it's they don't like what other people say. 

An additional option if you go with GIK is that you can have the pannels and have artwork on them to give the room additional character.

https://www.gikacoustics.com/product-category/acoustic-art-panels/

signaforce: The Acoustic America/Acoustimac site  is awesome!  So many cool options.  -John

There is a video of Andrew Jones’ studio  (start at 9:50) where he also does R&D and demos. It looks very similar to the Costco Artika panels. He has his partially running the length of the sidewalls. It really may be all one would need. 

The camera moves around showing what’s on the front and back walls as well as the furniture layout. Food for thought. 

All the best,
Nonoise

https://www.acoustimac.com

Various size DIY or assembled panels at reasonable prices, numerous color linen cloth cover material and hanging tools. Highly recommended.

If you are concerned with aesthetics and not scared of some basic math and geometry you might consider treating your room using the Sabine equation. The trend seems to be hanging panels on the wall which don’t actually address the problem frequencies. Many rooms can be fine in the upper frequencies that these panels treat if they are furnished with sofas and carpets, which many home theatres tend to be. By treating the fundamental problem frequencies you will improve your harmonics across the spectrum. Aim for about 500 milliseconds. 

The thin, foam things may help a little, but barely. Anyone can make really cheap but really good looking panels. OC 703 is good to use in those. Ideally, you want the panels installed so the absorption parts are an inch or two off the wall. This allows absorption on the way in, to bounce off the wall behind it, and absorb it again on the way out. 

Focus on first reflection points to the MLP. Side walls and ceiling and floor (thick carpet). Diffusion can be just as important.

When a speaker emits sound waves, they travel to your listening position but also to the ceiling, sides walls and floor, where they are reflected toward the listening position. While these first reflections arrive later and are measurably distinct from the initial signal, they reach our ears too soon for our psychoacoustic system to distinguish them from the initial signal and they become one in our head. What can be lost or overwhelmed by this wave interference are the subtler sounds that can help depict hall size, performer placement, soundstage width and depth, and the music’s overall tonal signature. This is more the "psycho" part of psychoacoustics and is distinct from the later reflections that bounce around the room and result in frequency peaks and nulls that accrue from room modes and the like. These later reflections might also interfere with the initial speaker signal much as first reflections do, but they further screw up the sound as they contribute to a less than smooth room frequency curve and/or cause “ringing”. Treatment at first reflection points helps a lot, but whole room treatment is necessary to deal with these later reflections.

Absorption simply captures these interfering wave reflections and converts them to heat. Diffusion breaks the waves up and reflects them in different directions instead of directly back at you. To better understand diffusion’s role, imagine being in a room and shooting a shotgun directly at a flat wall (no diffusion) versus against a rock wall (diffusion). The return path of the former is predictable and most are flying directly back at you. The latter will have much of the shot going elsewhere and taking a more circuitous route, bouncing off the surfaces of the room and even bumping into other shot before they might return to you. Because they are fewer, have been delayed, and have a lower energy, their return will not bother you as much as if they came flying straight back at you. Similarly, diffusion provides a time delay along with a weaker signal, allowing your psychoacoustic system to ignore or at least differentiate the reflections from the initial signal. Scattering panels work similarly and often are combined with absorption.

At a minimum, you want to avoid "first reflections" and instead have either "first absorption" or diffusion. Opinions are mixed as to which is better. It is probably easier to do absorption with standard home goods/furnishings such as rugs, blankets, curtains, overstuffed couches, etc. Some suggest that books and records have significant absorption properties, but I would argue they are primarily reflective and if there is absorption, it is over an extremely limited frequency range.  Bookshelves, racks, and the like do not give a predictable diffusion pattern. You may be getting different reflections from various media or equipment but they will not have the significant and ordered differences in depth to achieve meaningful diffusion. Neither will a popcorn ceiling nor textured wallpaper. On the other hand, if you wanted to arrange your equipment or books to follow a QRD pattern, you might see some benefit. Also, while too much absorption can be a bad thing as it sucks the reverberant life out of the room, I am not sure there is such a thing as too much diffusion.

If you cannot go full Monty because  of WAF, expense, room layout, etc., at the least put a rug down in front of you, avoid any hard surfaces such as a table between you and the speakers, and hang draperies on your windows and tapestries on your wall at the first reflection points.

I strongly recommend you get in touch with the guys at Music City Acoustics. They absolutely transformed my listening experience with very well-made products at a reasonable cost. 

https://www.musiccityacoustics.com/

+1 for Acoustimac.  I found them many years ago and have been quite pleased.