@bzawa the important part of your question is that you’re asking other people what you "need", and in my experience, that’s just never the way to go.
fear of missing out means you’re already in fear ... so you’re not in a position to listen critically or to enjoy
Having said that ...
AC cables have a very real effect on the sound, and there are so many options out there, but it’s only something that you consider at the very end when you are happy with what you have and are looking for something to take it over the top without buying new equipment
when you get to that stage, I strongly recommend Shunyata Research. Not only is it very audible, what they sell, but it’s backed by science, and the pricing is incredibly reasonable for the quality… I believe they have the top quality products in the world
No bad artifacts. Great value
So the question is, what are you going for, and they have a number of options each with different flavors and different price points, but you can never go wrong buying anything from Shunyata
my three favorite cable products from Shunyata are the Theta, the Sigma X, and the new Omega QR, three very different price points
the Gemini 8 is a nice product for very reasonable money, and you can go up from there into Denali and Everest
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@bzawa
You got your answer right away from @bigtwin. Order three or four from one of the online sellers that offer trial periods/refunds and audition them for yourself. Audio Advisor is one example.
Personally, I favor The Cable Co. You can borrow burned-in cables from them, listen and decide for yourself. This has become my go-to approach to cable upgrades. I just completed a power cable comparison using their cable lending library and opted to stay with my current brand but move up their line. If you’re interested, PM me and I’ll give you the name of the guy I always work with, there. Very knowledgeable, patient and no hard-sell tactics.
Good luck!
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I haven’t read through all the responses, but before upgrading your power cables you should install a dedicated electrical circuit. It’s the best, least expensive upgrade you can do and while your at it add a good quality outlet.
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@zimwig
How much does this "least expensive" option add up to, on average?
I'm curious.
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@stuartk I ran two lines and it was like $200 plus cost of the outlets I bought, but my walls were down at the time so may be more if they have to snake the wires and cut holes. Just to give you a rough idea.
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My “least expensive” comment was really a best bang for the buck. With a dedicated circuit, the background noise will be diminished tremendously. It lets the music shine. Cost is all labor. Get quote from an electrician.
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Yes, I believe a good power conditioner and power cables will improve your sound quality because that's been my experience. But, it may not be yours or at least not to the extent you think it important. One of the joys of this hobby for me is the pursuit of even small increases in sound quality, some times at what others consider substantial expense.
The first thing I'd recommend is a dedicated 20 amp line for your system only. Have a good electrician unit from the box to your system from a quiet, isolated portion of your box and make sure you have a good ground connection as well. This work is usually not too expensive. Probably the biggest benefits of better circuitry is the increase in wire gauge from the box and better receptacles that come to you with the process.
Then get yourself a decent power conditioner from your local dealer on trial. They come in all price ranges and won't choke the transients out of your amplifier like the Panamax is likely doing. In fact, plugging the amplifier directly to the wall may still be best. Just unplug it when storms come.
Next, try some well regarded power cables. All this equipment is system dependent. AQ's best conditioner didn't do as well for me as Shunyata but their top power cables are terrific. Your experience will likely be different.
But, this pursuit and the thrill of listening to life like music are what it's al about.
Enjoy...
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On what I call "fine" changes to your system, in which I include power cables and power conditioners, I don't recommend A/B ing. Have a friend change (or not change) the setup while you leave the room for a while, then walk back in and see if you can recognize the change that power conditioners and cables make. In other words, do a blind test with a time lag. I say this because we audiophiles have trained our ears to hear fine changes when we're concentrating, but it's very difficult to hear fine changes when you have nothing to relate those changes to. In other words, can you actually hear the difference on a day-to-day basis?
I recently purchased a Shunyata Venom 16 with an expensive power cable. I heard the difference when I listened to the comparison of my system with the Shunyata and without. The system sounded darker and enclosed without. With the Shunyata the system was less dark and more open. Enough though that I would hear the difference if somebody pulled out the Shinyata and I turned on my system without knowing? Maybe not.
I know I would notice if my Hovland Radia amp were replaced. My non-audiophile neighbor noticed when I replaced it with a Linn amp. He didn't like the sound. I would notice if my Pass preamp were changed. And absolutely notice if my Sonus Faber Olympica Nova 5 speakers were changed to some other speaker. My power conditioner, not so much. It seems like a lot when you grit your teeth and A/B these fine changes, and I believe we audiophiles even pat ourselves on the backs for noticing differences. But on a day to day basis.... I'm not so sure.
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Good day ladies and gents
Thanks to all for the advice. I decided to go The Cable Company Lending Library route. Presently, the Cardas Persec interconnects and speaker cables are hooked up. Replacing Monster powerline 2 and cardas quadlink. It was not a wow transformation. I think the parsecs sounder better (maybe a bit gentler). I was a bit disappointed. Just saying... Would anyone care to comment or share a similar experience?
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When we talk about differences in wire, sometimes we should mention that some wire, mostly lower level copper, sounds more the same than different. If you didn’t get the sound you wanted, send it back, and try something different. That's the beauty in using The cable company.
I personally chose to buy used from audiogon and try different cables over the years. If you research the cost you can break even doing it this way. It is fun for me, but others find it drives them crazy.
The journey is fun in itself!
Good Luck!
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Forgot to ask if you changed your power conditoner?
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@acman3 Not yet. Using it for power surges. It was recommended by The Cable Company to upgrade cables first.
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@acman3 I was going to go the used cable route until I found that The Cable Company is about 5 miles from home. So, no shipping costs. I borrowed the Parsecs and the Shunyata Gamma interconnects and speaker cables.
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I have had a good experience with the Cardas Parsec XLR interconnects and speaker cables, but your experience may vary if you are looking for a different sound quality from your cables. I think it's great that you are using the Lending Library from the Cable Company.
Several years ago, I borrowed interconnects from the CC and tested them in my home system. I listened to the Cardas Parsec, the Shunyata Venom, a cable from Synergistic Research, and another cable I can't remember at this time. What I do remember is that I liked the Parsec best. It had a smooth, musical delivery with absolutely no listening fatigue. In contrast, the Synergistic cable overemphasized the high frequencies in a way that was fatiguing and lacking in fullness of tone. The Venom was at the opposite end of the spectrum, sounding very smooth and pleasant, but not being especially lively or engaging. The Parsec was the closest to "just right" for my system and my preferences at that time. The Parsec had enough smoothness and richness to help tame my Thiel metal tweeters without excessive softening of the high end.
After living with, and enjoying, the Parsec XLRs and speaker cables for a couple of years, I decided to move up to more expensive options in the Cardas line of cables. I decided not to go all out on high-end detail, but I wanted to add a bit more transparency and openness without giving up too much of the Cardas' rich tonality. I settled on Clear Reflection, despite it being substantially more expensive than Parsec, and I have been very happy with Clear Reflection in my system.
I am currently testing out a few power cables I borrowed from the CC Lending Library. I have been quite impressed with the Shunyata Theta NR cables, although I wish they had just a touch more "meat-on-the-bones" for my taste and system. I'm afraid I'll have to spend more to move further up the Shunyata product line, but the Theta power cords are definitely a great value. I'm currently using Shunyata Delta V2 NR and Venom-12 NR power cables on most of my gear.
I think you are on the right path in trying out cables in your home system to see what sounds best to you. It's easy to be seduced by high-end detail, and too many cables go over-the-top in a way that is not very realistic and can become tiring to listen to. In your listening, be sure to pay attention to which cables help draw you in for extensive listening to your system. You want to select cables you can live with, not those that provide just an exciting "one-night stand."
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I would encourage you to borrow the Acoustic Zen Satori cables and Matrix Ref. II Interconnects for reference if nothing else. If you can find cheaper cables that can match those then you’ve really got something. Best of luck in your search.
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I use the Cable Co. a lot.
What has worked for me is to borrow usually four cables at one time. I do a fair amount of research to try to narrow choices down to near four.
Because they are already burned in, I don’t have to wait for each one to sound the way it will forever (and its best).
Then I try each one for 2-3 days, listening to very familiar recordings, and taking notes. Lots of notes.
Then when I have to send them back, I try to pick my favorite. Most often, one of them is outstanding and sounds exactly like what I had hoped. Sometimes, none of them sound like what I had hoped for, and I have to start over with another set of four.
This strategy has certainly worked well for me. I get exactly what I want—because I tried it in MY SYSTEM. No surprises. No disappointment.
(Plus, the Cable Co. applies the rental fee to your purchase, so no loss.)
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"Do I need upgraded power cables?"
Tangible “upgrade” sure, go for it!
Cable has to be compliant with manufacturer's IEC design, safety / UL is important too.
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Hello, and I hope you are well. You have a nice system. I would go to Amazon and purchase power cables (brand is Preffair and visit their site) for your amp and subwoofers. I am not affiliated with this power cord company or Amazon. I did build power cords, as it is not difficult, but time consuming. After the price of connectors, good cable by the foot/meter, and the dressing.....you are way beyond these Amazon prices. Your factory power cables are "bottlenecks" to the full capability of the components. 10 gauge cords, will make a huge upgrade. A nice "intro" to the power cord thing. You can select the plug material coating and the specific plug housing you want. I use the Alloy shells with the Rhodium plugs, which sound a bit more extended in the treble compared to the copper plugs, ime. I talked about these before here, and a few folks contacted me thanking me. Someone did not like them, as they were using much more expensive brands. Hope you try, at least one, for your amp. My best, MrD.
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@mrdecibel Thanks for the tip regarding the Preffair Power Cords. I will probably give them a try. I've read about the possible differences between gold-plated and rhodium. Do you have any comment on the Preffair Carbon Fiber cable? Thanks
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I admit it is awfully impressive for any company to make a power cable that looks this good for under $80, but use some common sense.
Just the knock-off connectors are look alike Furutech FI-50 connectors which retail for several hundred dollars- each. It is not possible this cable uses any sort of quality, I guarantee they don’t use red copper, it is not 99.998 % pure, and the carbon fibre is plastic. The website pictures aren’t even real pictures. Pure lies and deception.
Preffair = Chinese knock off. I don’t know why anyone would support this.
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Why Preffair? Under $40. with free shipping...that is why......and I have built power cables costing more in parts, and my time, that do not do anything better than these. Never have I indicated that they are "real", but at the price, they are FAR and AWAY better, in SQ, than the standard cables that might come with the components. Always, a return is allowed as well...nothing to lose.
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@bzawa Best value for rigs that aren't crazy expensive, Puritan Audio PSM156. It comes with a very good power cable or can be upgraded to one with a crazy expensive power cable. The original is still very good for a supplied cable.
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Two hours into a Saturn power conditioner with an M101 power cord.
So far so good.
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"Do I need upgraded power cables?"
Only if your current cord is broken or the wrong size...or if you want a nicer looking cable.
For sound improvements?...NOPE
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"Ignore trolls." By trolls do you mean ignorant people living in a delusional reality of imagination with ZERO proof to back up their claims or people with actual knowledge and FACTS to prove their claims?
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I have been listening to audiophile grade equipment for 25 years. The first items I bought came with an upgraded, aftermarket power cord (for amplifiers). Since then I have used mostly standard power cords with my other equipment. Over the years I did try one or two slightly upgraded power cords ($50-300) in my pre-amplifier and other components, but didn’t hear any difference. Last year, I bought standard power cords for my amplifiers, and didn’t realize it initially, but it did slightly affect the sound quality in a negative way. Just this past month I demo’d markedly expensive power cords ($1,500+) in my pre-amplifier, and heard a rather significant difference: it affected the timbre of the instruments, and slightly enhanced the clarity. This was a difference, but was it better? Some parts were better, but overall it was just different, kind of like trying different interconnects. Prior to this experience, I did not think a power cord could make much of a difference. While I was experiencing this, I also learned a bit of electrical engineering, about how AC waves can have reflections at interfaces, due to different impedances of the conducting materials, which can create an interference pattern in the otherwise 60Hz wave. Maybe that is part of what’s happening, maybe it’s something else.
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Unless you had a broken cable, there is no difference you are going to hear or measure. This has been tested MANY times. There is a reason there is not a single blind test ever where anyone claiming to hear such differences was able to prove it.
Placebo and bias are very strong things and nobody is immune to it.
Heck, many times I thought for sure I would be able to tell between two dacs or cables just to have my wife come to the room and blind test me and I failed miserable...just like EVERY other person that has tried testing power cables,.
Dont feel bad..the mind is a powerful thing and can easily fool us.
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drbond, what is "standard power cords for my amplifiers”?
power interconnect issues could be related to bad contacts, oxidation, etc., including IEC and wall connections; periodic maintenance helps.
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@westcoastaudiophile
I bought some new, but inexpensive standard power cables for my amplifiers to see if they sounded better than my old, but more expensive power cables. The new cheaper ones that I bought were just new extension cords with 12awg OFC copper wire, with just a black rubber covering. The contacts were tight for all cords. They didn’t make it sound much worse, but it was flatter, slightly more muffled sounding. However, a much more significant difference was comparing the standard power cable with an expensive one plugged into the pre-amplifier: very obvious, marked difference. As mentioned, prior to this experience, I had tried upgraded $100-300 power cables in various components, but didn’t hear any difference, so I did not think power cables really made a difference.
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Yes, people often don’t hear a difference when they "know" before that there cannot be any difference...Pass Labs includes very good quality cords, many companies do not...a nice bonus too is that used power cords are avilable at good prices and hold value a long time...I ended up with after market cords after extensive A-B testing with a friend (all cords were loaners, with free, simple return)...neither of us knew anything about power cords at that time...
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