Di I really need to clean my LP's?

There is a very wide gap of reality and perception on what is clean and what your vision perceives as clean. Cleaner records and clean styli simply are inarguabley less retarded in playing the grooves without obstacles. They play quieter . There is a marked difference in clean and cleaned.  Click on it and see what you can't see when you think its "clean"

@audiodwebe , it's the BS that gets people to buy their stuff. It worked, at least for this special population however many of us there are. It is called marketing and it makes sense even if it is not necessarily reality. 

I’ve got many records I bought new in the early 80s and used nothing other than a Discwasher with their fluid and the records sound fine to this day.  The only time I use a RCM (VPI 16.5) is when I buy a used record and it’s really grimy or if I listen to what appears to be a pristine record but hear lots of pops and ticks.

The vinyl world is filled with so many far-fetched and silly “to do’s” and “not to do”s” with regard to record cleaning that you’ve got to keep your BS radar up.

OP,

  The paper/book that you posted is right where to start with a no BS explanation of this topic. If after reading even half of this well written and serious paper, you still don't want or get the reason for the need to care for albums in a specific manner then that is your choice. It really just amounts to physics on a small scale. When you see the photos of the interface between the stylus and groove, and the force presented during play, perhaps then this will all make good sense.

@emrofsemanon , I have been doing this since the age of four. My first record was a Howdy Doody song book compilation. I still sign one of the songs to myself once in a while. I have been through all stages of record care from complete destruction (by modern standards) within 10 plays ( remember those ceramic cartridges that track at 5 grams) to records that seem immortal. I have gone through all stages of record care from doing absolutely nothing through the Discwasher/Zerostat days on into conductive sweep arms, a Spin Clean and now a Clearaudio Double Matrix.

As you can tell if you look at my woodworking skill I am an anal perfectionist. You have to be to produce work like that, goes with the territory. 

If your jackets are clean and not a depository for dust (you always have to change them) and you brush any incidental dust off the record before or during and after play. Assuming you are not buying used records and you cartridge is appropriately set up you do not need to go any farther unless you live in a horrendous environment with cigarette smoke, cooking fumes or other pollution. 

What people seen in their dirty water is predominantly surface dust that could easily have been removed by other means.

Having said all this since I have been using the Double Matrix general hygiene around the turntable has been better. My sweep arm hardly ever picks up anything and no dust collects on the mat or table itself which is nice. Am I improving the life span of my records? I do not think so. Is it worth $6500? Absolutely not. Is it worth $3000? I do not think so. I also always play with my dust cover down. I will NEVER buy a turntable without a dust cover. I consider them mandatory. 

As I have said on numerous occasions with good record handling skills, clean anti static sleeves, a dust cover, a pollution free environment and a $30.00 conductive sweep arm, assuming you are not buying used records, you can get away just fine.  

Bottom line just clean the damn things....!

my recent post was misunderstood, i meant to say that UNLESS one lives in a sterile  room with clean protocols, one NEEDS to ALWAYS clean one's records BEFORE each use. 

Not entirely new to this.

I’m still using a 45 year old Discwasher I bought new with a B&O Beogram TT.

Lately I’ve been using an ultrasound cleaner (basic 12" inside 3 transducer model from Amazon along with a clamp-on 2-disc spinner gadget) and getting VERY good results considering all the stuff that settles out at the bottom of the tank.

I do this with new records.

Why?

When I use the discwasher on NEW, out of the wrapping - still, oddly, PAPER, especially for 40-50 year old LP’s - I get a YUGE collection of white dust at the outer rim of the disc with less towards the center.

So, yeah, I clean them first, and go over them with a carbon fiber brush very lightly after playing to pick up any subatomic particles (🤨) released by the diamond-vinyl interface van der Waals forces.

I bought a NEW in plastic, Miles Davis live at the Blackhawk LP from 1957 and, upon opening, found there was NO paper liner at all and the disc had FUSED to the outer cardboard (non-returnable purchase).

I FINALLY found one Mint- that’s just fine, but it took me FOUR tries to get that as the other two were damaged by bad styli and had ingrained dust that jsut wouldn’t come off. Some discs are like that.

I put ALL my LP’s in archival quality rice-paper backed liners since around 1980 and again lately at the recommendation of a former patient who worked at the Nat’l library of congress as an audio archivist (he gave me a CD once with the entirety of the Nixon tapes, including the missing 18 minutes which he and many others had attempted to recover to no avail, and White House recordings of Duke Ellington, Johnny and June Cash, others).

I think they’re a good investment as the fewdozen records I kept and filed away 40 years ago have very little to no dust or noise on them.

Clean your records, store them properly, ignore your well-meaning friend.

JMHO.

Yes, ABSOLUTELY clean your investment. Sometimes, brand new albums need cleaning even more than a decades old album. There can be a variety of factory contaminants, vinyl fragments and oils buried in the grooves. Frankly, I am amazed this is even a question. I ultrasonically clean every album when I get it, and then a short clean every six months. I can show you my filter after cleaning brand new, and visually perfect used albums. It get black. 

You can tell if your records are dirty. Your stylus will collect it as a gob surrounding a stylus. This is not the lint the stylus picks up. The lint is a sign of trouble. A gob on the stylus is trouble. My stylus hardly ever needs cleaning. At some point I will publish pictures.

"unless you wear a clean suit in a clean room, you need to clean."

@emrofsemanon , That is wrong. For decades all I used was a conductive sweep arm and a dust cover during play. Some dust remained in the run out area. I would still be doing this had I not been given a bunch of 78s which were fungus infected filthy.

When in doubt, clean it out. 

unless you wear a clean suit in a clean room, you need to clean.

If you take care of record the way most people do then yes, you need a record cleaner. The problem with the Spin Clean is it is a pita to use,

I would also make sure the inner sleeves are clean, paper sleeves tend to break down over the years leaving particles on the record. Once a record is clean it’s a good idea to replace the inner sleeve. If the inner paper sleeve is printed you may also want to save it as it will probably add value to the record have the original inner sleeve.

@o_holter I made the statement ’ It depends on how much value is placed on the caring for the stylus ’.

I own a Cartridge that is a Model to be used as a Donor for a rebuild.

It is a Cartridge, that if a Search is carried out about the condition I bought the Cartridge with, there are reports found throughout the Globe about the Stylus detaching from the Cantilever, which is the same condition I bought mine with.

The Vendor reassured me the Cart’ was with used less than an expected usage life and was approx’ 300 - 400 Hours used, for me that ticks boxes as a Donor Model.

The description they had received when inquiring about how the Stylus was able to detach, was that impact from particle in the Groove can cause the Bonding Substance to fracture and then lead to a catastrophic failure ’in relation to a Cart’.

I see no reason to question this, it was still ticking boxes as a Donor Cart’, as the negotiated price was to my favour.

As a Conjecture, the Company producing the Cartridge, may have chosen as part of the design parameters a specific weight of bonding material to be added at the Styli/Cantilever Interface, where during internal testing on pristine condition Vinyl, the bonding method presented no concerns for reliability, but when transferred into real world, encountering every day types of usage, a chink in the design was found. Hence, the broadly spread reporting on the condition.

Hence, my statement made at the beginning of this post, I certainly like to feel, I have created an interface for the Stylus on my Vinyl LP’s, that is beneficial for the function of the Stylus in the Grooves Environment.

The Cartridge when in the Groove, can be further impacted on by Metallic Particulate being present and attaching to the coils, this has been known to cause various issues with the Coils if can become attached to them, this can mean a unclean LP,  is not just limited to being a concern for the Stylus. 

Yes, properly clean all your records (including new ones).

"I didn't get to where I am today by NOT properly cleaning my records."

DeKay (rich, famous and extremely sexy)

OP do you take a shower even though you don't smell?

@o_holter …seriously? A stylist breaking off because of a dirty record? What… one with glued sand on it. That sounds like a real stretch. My last stylist lasted much longer than 2,000 hours (Van den Hull Frog) with no damage from dust or lack of maintenance. I did little.

I found that sometimes cleaning an brand new album makes a difference, sometimes not. The albums I buy used have no fingerprints and look nearly pristine. Usually cleaning removes a bit of surface noise.

However, for a couple decades I just tried not to let my records be exposed and never did more cleaning than a dust brush with a small amount of Discwasher fluid and enjoyed my vinyl albums greatly without negative consequences.

I am currently listening to a late 1950’s Patty Page album that was very dusty… I ran it through my Nessie disk washer… sounds great. It depends… but the world will not end if you are not a clean fanatic… if the noise on the album is bothering you… clean it… if not, don’t.

Listen to one, clean it and compare. If you don’t hear an improvement, why bother?

Cleaning your records may or may not reduce surface noise, but I’m confident it won’t add any if done properly. I’m also confident it will protect and extend the life of your stylus. I’d suggest cleaning all your records (and any futures) with the Spin Clean, replacing any paper sleeves and then using a record brush before play.

My own personal record cleaning experience started with a Discwasher w/D4 fluid (pad system). It cleaned the dust off but didn’t clean the surface very well if at all. It didn’t add or remove static. It didn’t improve the record’s sound. I used it before every play. I went through a couple over about 20 years. At the time, it was one of just a few ways available to treat a record.

As I moved up the analog food chain, I went to a VPI HW16.5 cleaner. The records came out dust free and spotless. It didn’t remove static but sometimes it added it. Occasionally it improved the record’s sound, but not drastically. I used it with the VPI cleaning solution and had it for about 20 years. I was happy with it and recommend it to friends. I used it before every play.

For the past several years I’ve had an AudioDesk Systeme ultrasonic cleaner, used with distilled water and the company’s surfactant. It removes dust, static, fingerprints, stuff I can’t see but shows up on the filter, and the records look pristine. It doesn’t work miracles, old or used records will probably still have some surface noise after a run through (or two), but they can be anywhere from slightly to greatly improved. I’ve compared new records before and after, and they always sound better after a cleaning. I seldom clean a record a second time, but I use a brush before it’s played. The unit is as expensive as a component, which is what I consider it and it would be hard to be without it.

Good luck figuring it all out and have fun along the way.

I have experienced the stylus breaking off - from my very costly cartridge - maybe due to too poor cleaning. I don’t want a repeat.

So what do I do?

I mainly have a dry cleaning regime. If the record seems dirty, it goes into a manual wash. All records go through a dry cleaning before I play them, mainly with a Mofi brush. This brush goes lower into the grooves than the others I have tried - so if there is pollution or problems, my player slows down, if I press the brush down.

This is obviously not the full story, but it works - so far - no more stylus loss or goodbye to my cartridge diamond.

I wonder about the advice to clean new LPs anyway. If there is some residue that needs to be cleaned, before the stylus gets into the groove?

My impression is, these "new artifacts" when you buy a new LP are mainly gone, when you play this LP the second or third time. The stylus acts as a cleaner. But this may be a bad way to do it...

  " How do you know ...."

i know from experience. A clean record sounds better and plays quieter, no one will convince me otherwise.

I just checked my similar query on another forum, where one member suggested the following publication, which I shall review this evening:

https://thevinylpress.com/app/uploads/2022/01/PACVR_3rd-Ed_2022-01-17_Master.pdf

In my research before posting this question, results (many from record cleaner manufacturers) contain many assertions without any real facts. 

ilikemiles: How do you know that the mold release compound residue leads to contamination? 

pryso: How do you know that playing a record with contaminants will make the records worse?

I have also been advised that cleaning records often makes them worse, so I want to proceed based on some real evidence.

mc, no offense but if you don't understand the various reasons for record cleaning and need to ask then possibly you are one of those who dosen't need to bother.

However even a simple search for record cleaning will turn up hundreds of positive results.  And those with a wide variety of cleaning methods.

What really surprised me was an Audio Note system demo many years ago to our audio club.  The AN rep included vinyl playback in his demo and commented that all one needed to do to clean a record was to play it.  His contention was that the stylus tracing the groove would clear away any dust, grime, or deposits on the vinyl.  I've never known anyone who is half-serious about playing LPs that believes that.  In fact playing records without cleaning can imbed the contaminants and make them sound worse.

 Yes. You really haven't heard that record till its been cleaned.

It depends on how much value is placed on the caring for the stylus and whether there is a want  for the stylus to interface with the LP, in an environment that presents the minimum of particulate obstructions, especially particulate that are capable of producing signals that are not belonging to the recorded information that is stored in the LP Groove.

The question for an individual who has an interest in experiencing Vinyl LP Replays and the question that is needed to make a decision on, when replaying a Vinyl LP  is, " how purified is one wishing for a Vinyl Groove to be during a replay"

I like my Vinyl Groove to be as clean as I feel I can attain, and to achieve this, I have opted for a Manual Cleaning Method, using purpose produced solutions for the cleaning processes, along with ancillaries to offer a valuable application when using these solutions during the different processes. 

The response from your relative seems quite logical when thinking about particulate that might be detected by the eye, the chances are this will be easily removed and there should be no more detriment to the replay due to it having been present.

When the particulate is in the above 10um size, it is quite able to present itself as an obstruction to the Stylus and for some can be detected as an audible obstruction when the stylus meets it.. 

Brand new records have mold release compound residue on them from the pressing process; this attracts dust and dirt into the grooves over time. Over the years, dust gets deep into the grooves and adds surface noise. An initial cleaning and a follow up every 5-10 years or so (depending on how much you play them, how they are stored, etc) will keep them sounding their best. In terms of how to clean them, IMO, ultrasonic>vacuum>spin clean>old “disc washer” style cleaners.

Simple answer YES. Even a brand new album never played will sound better after cleaning.

Duh!

I only clean my thrift store finds with my record dr....because they are usually quite filthy visually, fingerprints etc...however they have little if any scratches, as I’m very discriminant. I do not clean records that I myself bought new and know the history of, because they are pristine. All these records ever see is a dry cleaning with my auduoquest carbon fiber brush, or maybe a dishwasher d4 quick cleaning.

Yes, you need to clean them.

Here's an idea:

Listen to a handful of LP's. Then clean them and listen again. You may then decide for yourself, not ask others what you should do.

If you DO decide cleaner records sound better than non-cleaned ones, you can get your LP's far cleaner with a vacuum-style cleaner than you can with the Spin Clean. The  vacuum machines offered by Record Doctor, VPI, Pro-Ject, and a few others offer great cleaning at a reasonable price. And for around $500 you can assemble an ultrasonic cleaner, which some prefer to vacuum cleaners.  

Yes, they need cleaned. Initially after many years of not doing so, and occasionally afterwards, no matter how careful you are. In fact, I clean my brand new LP’s before first use…..well….almost always….and when I don’t I usually do after spinning the first side.

I would look at them. You can normally see. If not, play them… if there is surface noise clean them.

I am a big advocate of doing less, unless more is shown to be required.