Developing A List Of Tonearm Candidates For A SOTA Turntable

The SME V is a fantastic arm and was always a classic match with the SOTA. What was it that you disliked?

Kuzma 4Point9 or higher, but good luck finding a used one!

You play LPs with dust cover on?  If not, who cares whether the dust cover impedes the lateral traverse?

@neonknight Today I have broken my Hiatus from the Analog Section for a New Member and now for you Origin Live Inquiry.

I have a friend in my local Audio Club, who sold on their SME 20/12 as a result on my introducing them to a New to them Experience of a Vinyl Front End.

You are aware of my Vinyl Front End and how it is assembled.

The SME 20/12 owner moved on to Origin Live Tonearms and went through the Encore fairly quickly to settle for quite some time on the Illustrious.

They were with no doubt the Illustrious was a TA well worthwhile having in use and rated it above the V12.

I have experienced the Illustrious > Sumiko Pearwood in various systems that have had the Illustrious mounted on a Idler Drive and Belt Drive TT.

Never have I perceived the Illustrious > Pearwood as being wanting in any way.

When the Ill' > P'wood was used on a ID 401 with a Compressed Bamboo Plinth, O was off the view, that was the very best 401 experience I had ever had. 

The Ill' was eventually replaced by the Conqueror, which I never received a demo'.

The owner of the Conqueror was very very pleased, and made it known there was noticeable improvements to the Pearwoods performance.

Here is the Curve Ball, a friend of the 401 > Conq' > Pearwood user, laid down a challenge to put a Vertere DG-1 TT with the DG Tonearm in use.

The 401 > Conq' are now sold, the Vertere DG-1 TT > DG Tonearm > Pearwood are now in use for quite some time, nearly a year.

The Vertere user is off the view this is the best Vinyl Front End he has had in use.

I can't Vouch for the OL TA's or the Vertere DG TA being competible to your requirements for the Sota.

Back to my Hiatus 😴      

I have a Origin Live Silver iv on my Sota Escape and it's really nice.   I would imagine their top offerings are high quality as you go up the line.  

Sumiko MDC-800 The Arm, which SOTA's David Fletcher designed to partner with his table. If you can’t find (or afford) one, look for a Zeta, the workingman’s MDC-800.

I have the entry OL Onyx which replaced an RB300 for my Rega P2 (Groovetracer modified all the way down). Everything was instantly more transparent and full bodied (if I can use that term). The downside was after a month of happy listening I began to have channel cut-out somewhere halfway through a side or variable volume playback. It was awful. I went to the Origin Live website for trouble shooting and they had the issue and the remedy listed. I had to dismantle the arm and end plug. The teeny-tiny wires in the arm needed to be untwisted and the ground wire reseated. It took about 30 minutes and the problem was erased. Everything back to sounding 100%. However, I worry all the time now about those little wires twisting again.

Supatrac's Nighthawk. Or Blackbird for less cost. Great review by Fremer on the Blackbird. 

Sumiko MDC-800 The Arm, which SOTA's David Fletcher designed to partner with his table. 

Yes - and David quit making the Sumiko arm when the SME V arrived.

There's a reason for that.

I'm familiar with the Supatrac. Whilst it's quite good value, not. in the league of either the Schroeder CB or the Kuzma 4Point which are probably the best options given that the OP wants to upgrade from an SME V.

@dover   I've heard that Dohmann recently stopped recommending the Schroeder CB series as they found that there are better sounding arms; yet do recommend the Supatrac Blackbird and Nighthawk, which they feel "are a revelation with reference level performance"

The Blackbird is a solid value for the cost but I'm going for the upgraded Nighthawk myself, which was just released so I doubt you've had the chance to evaluate it. 

There's a YT video where The Dohmann Helix One MKIII is playing a Nighthawk and it sounded amazing. 

I don't know which model of SOTA you have.  I have a vintage SOTA Star Sapphire on which I had a linear-tracking Eminent Technology ET-2 installed, and am still using that to this day.  It is rather fussy to set VTF with it, but if you don't mess with changing cartridges or VTF often, that's not a big issue.  I think it sounds great.  It offers an easy way to alter VTA, which you can do while playing a record and listening.  You do have to manage the noise of the air pump which provides the air to the air-bearing.  I cover mine with a cardboard box and have it situated 10 ft. from my listening position.  Others put it in a closet or another room.

Dear @cleeds  : Other classic combination with the SOTA TT is as @drmuso  already posted the ET-2.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

@vinylshadow 

You presume too much. A friend of mine distributes the Supertrack here. As far as Dohmann goes he will mount any arm you want - "they are all great".

Make sure you replace the horizontal bearing pivot point and re-polish the arm block on which it loads on your Blackhawk every year - they wear out quite rapidly.

@rauliruegas 

I'm surprised you've mentioned the ET2 - when I distributed Sota here our reference system primarily used Sota Vacuum/ET2 - an outstanding combo.

We never had a problem with keeping the Sota sub-chassis level.

Despite some folk objections to the ET2, properly set up it will see off most pivoted arms, particularly on tracking ability ( 0 anti-skate ).

I was also the agent for SME at the time.

@dover Could be!

But I'm interested in the Nighthawk. Not the Blackbird. The Nighthawk was just released. 

As you may have heard, the Nighthawk is a significant upgrade to the Blackbird. Perhaps the bearing pivot point was upgraded? There were several significant parts upgraded. 

Hey neon, I feel your misery. The problem is that for the suspension of the SOTA to work normally, the arm has to be within a certain weight range. I use a CB on my Cosmos and I am in no hurry to move on. I have also installed the Kuzma 4 Point 9 on a Cosmos with excellent results. The 9 " Origin Live arms fit really well, but their customer service has received more than a few negative comments. There are also several Clearaudio arms that will fit. The Verismo on an SME V is not the greatest match without adding a significant amount of mass to the headshell. I have an MC Diamond which is way heavier than the Verismo and I still have to use the brass mounting plate! The Lyras are a great match for the SME, but you are ready to move on. I would like to try mounting a Reed 2G on the SOTA. It is lighter and more compact for a tower arm and I really like the bearing arrangement and the magnetic anti skating mechanism. The problem is once you buy it you are committed and it might require some modification to the plinth for clearance, something not many are willing to do. I keep thinking I'm going to build a custom plinth for the Cosmos. If I get down to it I might make use the old one as a guinea pig. 

Elevating the arm board won't work because you can only lower arms so far and somehow I do not think a Rega arm is your cup of tea. 

If you have a Thrax CB you might want to get in touch with the man himself and put yourself on the waiting list for one of his hand made wood CBs. I must warn you that I have been on that list for 2 years. 

@mijostyn I have an ebony CB-1L on the Scheu with the Verismo and its a wonderful combination. I love the performance of the arm, but its just such a pain in the butt to set up. Those settings remind me of a 1960’s 0r 70’s era of arm. But I cannot deny it sounds excellent, and probably the main reason I was willing to move on from the SME. I think I will buy a 3009 III to put my MC2000 on and it will be easy to swap in when I want it.

I have not heard of issues with Origin Live, I will look at that closer as I was considering an Enterprise.

I guess a Kuzma would be a solid choice also.

Clearaudio is another I have thought of, but I find no one being enthusiastic about them, and I wonder if its the stigma of a "big" company, something that Ortofon and Audio Technica often get tagged for.

Something will come along. I have the Scheu/Shcroder/Verismo set up and it satisfies. My digital sounds very nice, so I am not in a bad place.

FWIW, I had a Clearaudio Universal arm on an Innovation Wood for a few years. It was a delight to use and did nothing seriously wrong but I never cottoned to it all that much, always finding it a touch lean or metallic. I had a Phantom II on the same two-armed table and preferred it, even before an upgrade to Supreme. I also preferred the Triplanar VII uii I had an another turntable.

Ortofon just released a new line of arms that look very nice and supposedly have some upgrades over their discontinued Jelco-made arms (which actually sound pretty darn good, especially for the money), although I’m not certain exactly what, other than an improved bayonet mounting collar. They look more substantial. Not especially purist, though, with removable headshell and DIN connector, so quite unlike your Schroeder.

@neonknight  I have a method and it takes me only 10 minutes to change cartridges once they are set up for the first time. All it requires is a WallySkater and a stylus force gauge. Each cartridge gets its own mounting plate. They are set up initially with a SmarTractor and the plates are marked with a fine Sharpie so I can return them to the exact same position every time. The VTA scale reading is recorded for each cartridge. Azimuth stays the same throughout. I must add that the WallySkater is a must with magnetic anti skate mechanisms. I set all modern styluses like your Replicant 100 to 11%. 

The Enterprise is a well designed arm. The only thing I do not care for is the anti skate mechanism. I personally think the Kuzma is a better arm even if it is ugly as sin. Check out the Clearaudio Magnify arm. I am very tempted to try this one. It is a brilliant design with all the features I demand in an arm. Like the CB it is deceptively simple. It will fit on the SOTA like an Italian driving glove. The Universal is probably too heavy for the SOTA.  

@wrm57 thanks for the experience with the Clearaudio Universal. I'm with @neonknight that you really don't hear much about the Universal. I run one now and am very happy with it due to the flexibility of cartridges and weights it can take to change compliance and just all of the features Clearaudio has for keeping a customer with upgrades.

I've always wondered how people view the Universal. I'm having an itch and was curious about testing out a different arm on my Ovation. Kuzma 9" or just be happy with the Universal. 

Mijo, you mean it fits like OJ’s glove?

Mijo, you mean it fits like OJ’s glove?

Yes, but it will murder the sound.

From all reports the Magnify has stability issues on flexible floors. Been a bit of a disaster.

Dear @mijostyn :  Yes, the Clearaudio looks fine but what dover posted is something to worry about the tonearm bearing design, normally ball bearings are true solid and with no issues but here the design is: balls+magnet and maybe this is what gives some kind of unstability at microscopic stylus track. Something as all the Kuzma that are unipivots in reality.

But.....

R.

I ran various SOTAs since the early 80s up until three years ago when I switched to a Kuzma Ref2 and Kuzma arm.  Agreed that not every cart works with the SME V as I had one for nearly 30 years.  The Kuzma 4point9 is the only one that works with the SOTA but I would recommend trying an AMG 9w2 arm.  Fairly easy to setup with a Linn mount and for me, the best set of bearings around.  It is the last arm I used on the SOTA, mounted with an Dynavector XV-1S and it was outstanding.  So good in fact that I sold the SME V.  I had the AMG mounted on the Kuzma Ref2 and only let it go as a 4point11 came on the market.  In truth, it was hard to hear the difference between the Kuzma 4point and the AMG, both using the Dynavector cart.  Worth giving a look.

I've just installed a Funk Firm FX3 on my Sota Sapphire.   The FX3 uses the Rega 3 point arm mounting board that's available from Sota.     You should add Funk Firm FX3 to your list!

I had an SME V on my Sota which didn't work even with pro setup.....moved on.

@dover Thanx, I had not heard that. I am in no big hurry to step away from the CB. I would have to take a big leap in capability to make a change and it would be to a Schroder LT or Reed 5T, but both would require another turntable or a major reengineering of the SOTA. If I can do it in a reversible fashion I might try it.

All Tonearms of a certain design choice and purchase value, should as a tool be able to show how the tool is capable of being a mechanical interface, that is able to to enable the mechanical activities occurring within Mounted Cartridge to function in a way, that produces an accuracy of relaying on the groove modulation energy to be transferred.

Where the transferred energy, which after an early in energy paths journey, undergoes conversion, continues on with the energy transferral as an Electrical Signal undergoing further conversions in amplification to the journeys end point.

Where the Speaker Driver is receiving the Amplified Signal and is to function as another  mechanical interface, where this Speaker Function is responsible for producing an End Sound.

In most cases the End Sound produced is Very Comprehensible, Stimulating and able to be enjoyed as a means to produce a form of entertainment.

In many many cases the entertainment that is being achieved is usually enough, where the only time a change may be sought is when a tool in use that is a sacrificial part is approaching the last period of its suggested optimised usage period. 

Where the division seemingly comes from in relation to Tonearms being used as a Tool, is seemingly how the Tonearm is seen to be a mechanical match for a particular Phono Cartridge Design. Alternatively how the Tonearm is perceived by the individual through their experiencing it in use and assessment of the Tool for the designs inherent properties influence on the end sound being produced.

It seems that the individuals assessments of a particular Tonearm suggests that the Tonearm function is able to influence the Cartridges Function.

The individuals assessment again 'seems' to hinge on their perception of the Modulation Energy being produced and transferred, converted to an electrical signal, being an optimised energy as a result of the choices made for the Tonearm Cartridge Coupling, or deficient as a result of the coupling of the two tools being used in conjunction for the Mechanical Interface.  

My experience to date, is that a Tonearm can as a tool assist with creating a perception a Cartridge when coupled to it, is able to function in a way where the perception created through experiencing the pairing strongly suggests it is seemingly optimised.

My experiences to date, also have shown that if the other Mechanical Interfaces are not optimised, as per the following:

1, Platter Bearing Spindle function optimised

2,Optimised Energy Management of transferred energies through TT mount Structure and Tonearm Mount Structure. Created through using materials with inherent properties optimal for this role as well as being extremely stable as a material in the environment used.

3, Mounting Structure for above assembly to substantially reduce exposure to receiving Environmental Kinetic Energy Transfer 

My experiences to date allow for me to strongly suggest that there is a need to extend the investigation to what needs to be addressed.

Without the entirety of interfaces being addressed to substantially improve on how energies are managed, a change of Tonearm is most likely to serve in a way that can be expected from putting a Band Aid Plaster on a Gaping Wound.   

Visually all will see a fix has been attempted, but to all who see, even the most inexperienced in such matters, the idea not enough has been done will be quickly deduced.

Only the OP can decide what preparations are in place and their value, as a design to get the best from Cartridges or Tonearms used, in use or to be used.

I admit I'm surprised by the recommendations for the ET arm with a SOTA, although I know that seemed to be a popular combination some years ago.

I would think any arm with more moving mass, such at the ET, would not work correctly with a suspension table.  That is a wide shift in weight from the outer groove to the inner groove.  I had a SOTA Sapphire years ago but don't remember how compliant the suspension.  Possibly firm enough the moving mass of the ET didn't shift things out of balance?

So I'm not saying it doesn't work, but why is it successful if it does work well?

+1 Kuzma 4point - plenty of very positive reviews. I purchased it as it seems to be best at it’s price point, and I’d have to spend >10k to beat it.

I also have the Schroeder CB-1L to match my VDH GC cart.

Pryso, I would think that the mass that moves in an ET or ET2 (the arm wand, cartridge, and mounting hardware) is small in magnitude, small enough not to disturb the suspension, I hope.

@vinylshadow Good luck actually getting a tone arm from Supatrac.  I ordered the Blackbird at the end of December and still haven't received it and they didn't respond to my last email asking for a status update.  They started telling me it was imminent in April but clearly that wasn't true.

The Link will drip one in a Thread that has a variety of Supatrac Variants produced by DIYers' taking on many cases guidance from Supatrac, who still contributes to the thread for over three years.

There is enough seen to inspire anybody to build a version of a Supatrac.

I also believe some of the design tweaks made to the Supatrac, have been inspired by the learning had from the DIYers'. This sort of shows certain DIYers' had found their path and brought further design ideas to the table that were seen to be very worthwhile implementing.

lewm, you must be right or that combination wouldn't have been so popular.

I've owned a large number of turntables over my years in this hobby and the majority of them were suspended.  But the compliance of their suspensions could be quite different.  One was an early generation Oracle which seemed to get out of balance if you breathed on it wrong.  ;^)

So I assumed most tangental arms work best on tables without much suspension, meaning not much more than their feet.

Still have not made a decision yet, but one of the candidates is the Origin Live Enterprise. The next arm up is way too heavy and out of the limits of the suspension. 

Well I have finally gotten some information back. Looks like I can fit the Origin Live Agile to the table with a custom made arm board to meet the weight requirements of the suspension. So the plan is to fit it to the SOTA and I will install the Transfiguration Proteus on it. I will hold the Audio Tekne in reserve as option 2. Now we need to make the final arrangement and get it ordered. 

@neonknight, please let us know what you think of the Agile. It's an arm that has long intrigued me.

Part of this process was deciding how to consolidate my analog stuff. I was looking at a  way of improving upon my second table, and maybe just maybe buying a great table and running just one arm on it, perhaps one that would have displaced the SOTA. As I looked at my options, I really did not see something I could afford off the pre-owned market that would substantially raise the bar from where I am. I also had to ask myself if the rest of the system in this room would benefit from this change. Well the Scheu motor one day did not turn on when I flipped the switch, tossed it again and up we go. Break out the contact cleaner and give it a mist, and thought we were OK. Two weeks later it happened again, so I pulled my ad and figured it needs a deep cleaning or a new switch. It is probably a $20 switch, so no big deal in the giant scheme of things. 

So I took the money and ordered the Agile tonearm and thought I was good. But in my heart of heart, I came to grips with the idea that I still want to listen to my Ortofon MC2000. I had a conversation previously with Jeff Spalls and he said its possible to build an arm in the single digits of mass from previous Audiomods parts combined with certain aspects from the Model 6. So i sent an email to him saying could we do this? I am scheduled in early August to have an arm built. 

So in the end I parted with 2 arms, a phono stage, an MC3000 II, MC5000, MC200, a set of Focal Stellia headphones, Channel Island headphone amp stack, and a Tara Labs power conditioner. 

I am looking forward to hearing the SOTA Cosmos Eclipse and Origin Live combo, and believe this will be a very nice sounding table. 

Got notification that the SOTA arm board has been built, and it is heading my way along with the Origin Live Agile tonearm. Fed Ex says it will deliver this coming Wednesday. Now I just have to decide which cartridge to put on it. I have the Transfiguration Proteus, Kiseki Blackheart, and Audio Tekne MC6310 on hand for this. 

I like OL arms, I hope you’ll be happy with yours. I started out with the OL silver on a Feickert Volare then moved up to an Illustrious on a OL Resolution.

 I also owned your Audio Tekne MC6310 and that’s a fantastic cartridge. I sent mine back to the factory for a rebuild and it was a really good experience dealing with the original builder/designer.

Anyway, enjoy the arm!

The Agile tonearm and custom arm board delivered yesterday. I spent a bit of time reading the manual and bolting the arm to the board and placing it on the table. You have to remove a cushion/ spacer in the arm bearing that is used for transit. The arm bearing functions differently than I expected. Familiarized myself with the VTA collar and what to expect from it. Need to mount the tone arm cable strain relief clip and then route wire and bolt down the board. I figure to get this up and going during the weekend. 

@neonknight : Congrats! I’m excited to hear what you think.

What was there about the SME V that you weren't satisfied with?  I run that arm on my primary (VPI TNT V) and secondary (Sota Cosmos) systems and have been very happy with them.  Thought of trying a Graham at one point but decided that the differences would be small.  Also considered an ET but just wasn't up for that much possible fiddling.

@wspohn 

I dreamed of a V ever since I sold them when a part time sales person during my college years. I put one on my Cosmos when I received it but never cared for the tables sound with it in place. I did bolt up an Audiomods Sweies 6 for a bit and to be honest I preferred the presentation with a Transfiguration Proteus, but Indis not want to believe it. I did eventually find a satisfactory combination with a Kiseki Blackheart first generation, but other carts only had middling success on this table. Earlier yhis year I decided this was enough and I would do an arm change. I looked at various candidates but the small arm board eliminated many contenders. It came down to Kuzma, Graham, Moerch, and Origin Live. The Agile was my best option for a few reasons, so I made my choice and paid my monies.

@neonknight : I’m curious how things are going with your new Agile. Care to share?

@neonknight I am also curious to see what you have thought about the Agile against your previous arms because I have one.  Perhaps you have just been too busy listening, I hope so! 

I am fortunate (though it has meant I have 'jumped up' the range!) to live within 3 miles of where Origin Live are based and having initially bought a traded resolution Mk IV from Mark Baker and an Encounter arm from ebay. I was delighted with the combo and initially a Cadenza Black and then had an opportunity for a S/Hand MC Anna Diamond from a trusted source. I then lucked into a SH Mk3 Sovereign with an enterprise arm which significantly improved performance again. So I was intrigued to try higher and went back to Mark to hear an Agile on an upgraded Sovereign-S, had my platter upgraded and decided on buying the Agile after half a track of something I knew well.   I have subsequently had some further Origin Live mods and upgrades for my main room and the Sovereign / Agile MC Anna is now the living room system.  Reviews such as the one in HiFi+ yesterday Sept 15th and previous reviews of earlier versions by Alan Sircom and Michael Fremer are accurate this is a fantastic combo.  What I can say is having heard a Voyager/Voyager-S deck and and Renown tone arm. Origin Live can do even better than the Sovereign-S/Agile combo and some upgrades from those are available as trickle down upgrades.  I will also note, put either of the last two through a Whest Triton Pro Mk2 or a MC Ref V and together they make a Taiko Streamer and a dCS Vivaldi become "unused".  

I installed the Agile with a Transfiguration Audio Proteus, which is one of the cartridges I ran on the SME V. With the V I preferred an original Kiseki Blackheart to anything else, and was always disappointed on how the Proteus got along with it. 

What i find with the Agile is there is a richness to music that gets harmonic texture and density right, yet does not sacrifice the timing and pace of music. Also the full spectrum of music is evenly balanced, and no one sector stands out from the other.

Often, we listen to specific sections of our system in an evaluation, and certainly the lower region is taught and solid, the mids sound realistic, the upper register is articulate without being etched. But it is more about how the music flows together, and how different parts of the spectrum do more than blend seamlessly, but rather they are all cut from the same cloth. 

The presentation of space is excellent, the soundstage is expansive and performers are solidly formed with a realistic size. Nothing to fault here. Finally, dynamic presentation is nimble, and while this is not the strongest suite of my speakers, the results are very enjoyable. 

There may be higher tier arms than the Agile. But for the physical limitations of my Sota Cosmos Eclipse and my pockets, I am quite content with this arm. This table build is done and I am able to be finished with it.