DAC upgrade

Yggy LIM just came up for sale on this site at $1400, which is a great price!

OP, there were some good comments on the Node also. I have a Node 130, with an LHY linear power supply $279. Made a nice improvement in SQ, darker floor which helped bring out extra detail.....and a relatively inexpensive tweak. The previously mentioned Teddy Pardo as well, I've just never heard it

I owned the Qutest and RME they were both nice Qutest had better sound stage. I have the Pontus. Iris was eye opening for $350 used, I think it’s a must. The big shocker was adding the fairly cheap Wire World silver sphere hdmi over a $25 hdmi. It totally changed the Pontus Iris combo. I would have to spend $2000 plus on a pair of rca interconnects to hear that big of a improvement but WW did it for $130 used, I’m a big hdmi fan now.  $1200 used Pontus, Iris and a cable would run under $1700. RME and Qutest could not compete with that combo.

Bought the Chord, one month old on US Audio Mart for $1,200. If I don’t like it, can resell. Thanks for those who recommended the Audio Mart. Never used them before. Thanks again for all your outstanding recommendations!

Okay, I have read too many DAC threads; however, I like your direct question on what DAC you are leaning toward buying and judging that it is your systems weakest link.  I cannot comment on your own judgement of weakest link.  Let’s assume you are right on.  There were two responses to your posted question that resonated with me.  First, Mclinnguy (hope I have that right) recommended an upgrade to the Chord Quitest and staying within the Chord line of DAC’s.  I have listened to and owned too many DAC’s to mention and be meaningful; however, Mclinnguy mentions the Chord TT2.  This is my favorite DAC for sound quality and value.  I have heard so many adjectives describing sound quality:  soundstage and depth of sound. But I don’t understand how to put those to use.  What I can put to use is:  Does it sound like a piano, a drum, a steel guitar and etc?  Can I place the instruments within the  bands hierarchy?  If the recording is clean is the playback as clean?  Those are my main concerns when deciding on a DAC.  The Chord TT2 ranks extremely high on my list and probably the best for the money (not inexpensive).  I also own the Cord Quitest and Hugo 2.  Both are very good pieces based on my parameters.  In my opinion, neither provides the value that the TT2 brings into play.

There was another response from Hilde45 that should provide considerable insight to your question.  Please click on the posted link he or she provided.  Really good stuff.  Good luck in your purchase.  Let us know what you decide.  I am sure you will be happy with purchase!

@jworth 

Thanks for your thoughts. I just didn’t want my DAC to be better than the rest of my components, starting a whole new round of upgrades. I think my new Qutest will be very good and one of my better components. Now replace my Node, and will hopefully be done. Very happy with my current system otherwise. Thanks!

Two things. One, very surprised no one mentioned the Border Patrol DAC as that is usually one of the favorites in your price range.

Second, I remember Srajan from 6Moons talking about how a DDC between your streamer and the DAC makes for a major step up. In that it makes the streamer and the DAC sound much more expensive. And this was with (at the time) a $350 (now about $600) Singxer DDC.

many are quick to dismiss the BlueSound Node and call it the “weak link or bottleneck”. I would offer a contrary argument and say that it’s a great all in one box solution particularly at its price point if folks can get over their obtuse notions that stand-alone streamer and dac’s are a must have.  My newest and latest Node X is a stellar performer and I gloat over its performance and ease of use having heard other mega buck digital separates setups that left me underwhelmed.

in the interim I see a slew of EverSolo products (including Master Edition) that are quickly showing up for sale on the used audio sites….and I mean quite a few!

I wonder why that is??

clhs04 +1

Bluesound originated in 2013, so they have been in the streaming business for over a decade now. They spent a lot of time improving the OS and have a stellar customer service network. They are in it for the long haul and I have had many questions answered by their IT guys and many user errors resolved. The newest Node X is a stellar product at the $800 mark. Some have knocked MQA but some of the best recordings I have have heard on my stereo have been FLAC or MQA. I think we all know the companies that are producing better sounding products. Most are selling at double, triple and up to $12k. But will they keep doing so in a decade and servicing those products? To what extent have they built up customer service? How good is the OS or GUI?

For what Bluesound has achieved, they are a stellar choice IMHO.

The Border Patrol dac might worth consideration. Music is something special through this little gem. Form factor is high.  

Bryston BDA-3.  
 

Aqua Acoustics LaScala

You should consider the PS Audio Directstream DAC Mk1. It definitely doesn't have the form factor you want, which may well disqualify it, but it's an amazing DAC an now with the Mk2 out they are selling for around $2k, I've seen one for $1900.

Your Schiit DAC is not the weakest link in your chain.

As is the case with most systems, it appears to me the weak link is either the speakers or amplification.

Audiophiles like to focus on upgrading components such as DACs because they’re light and easy to swap. The reality though, is that they make far less a contribution to total performance.

That aside, if you search the second-hand sites and fleabay, you’ll notice there are always plenty of Qutests listed. There is good reason for that, there is nothing exceptional about its sound. In fact, its most noteworthy trait is how lean it sounds in the bass, even compared to inexpensive “Chi-Fi” DACs like the D90.

The RME would’ve been the best option on your list, largely because of its adjustability and parametric EQ. You can adjust the RME to make it sound similar to a great many other DACs. It can also compensate for weaknesses elsewhere in the chain.

Not to rain on your parade, I simply believe in being candid, it doesn’t help to tiptoe around the truth. But since you already ordered one, you’ll get to hear the difference (or lack thereof) for yourself. That is, if you level match the outputs and attempt to remain objective when A/Bing the Qutest against your current DAC. But if you don’t conduct the comparison, then yeah, chances are that well-machined brick of metal with the cool little sight glass is going to sound better. 

Oh, and replacing your Node would be a mistake as well, since you already own an outboard DAC. Contrary to the crackpot consensus around this forum, the primary factor in choosing a stand-alone streamer should be its operating software, and rather unfortunately, Bluesound’s is already the best. The main problem is that most around here are like kids on Christmas morning when they receive a shiny new toy in the mail. Of course those same 1s and 0s are going to sound better when you approach “upgrades” in that frame of mind. Meanwhile, many of them own speakers that are distortion machines, or are not remotely capable of a linear response. That or their speakers are 12 inches from room boundaries. Silly.

(addressing the OP) It’s really up to you to specify your sonic preferences. In this thread you have solid recommendations for divergent types of DACs:

1. Those that are highly resolving, "accurate," and detailed above all else (ie, Weiss; Chord; any other delta-sigma)
2. And those that are musical, organic, and smooth, though not resolving quite as much detail (ie, Pontus; Ares)

Getting a really great DAC from the category that doesn’t suit your preferences would only waste time & money.

As for myself, I’m all in on NOS DACs. Have 3 of them and will never go back to delta-sigma. The best of my 3 on a technical basis is the Metrum Onyx. Easy to recommend that--but the recommendation only has meaning if you favor the sound in #2 above...

I owned 2 Topping D90 DAC, the MQA and non-MQA. Both too sterile. I was thinking that the second time I got it, I had a very warm setup then, that the Topping would match, no luck.

I currently have the Benchmark DAC3B. It is hot on top and works nicely with warmer gear such as my Class A CODA #16 amp and my RAAL VM-1a tube headphone amp. With my Benchmark AHB2 amp the DAC3B is too hot and irritates me physically.

I also have a Schitt Yggi+ LIM and it is a great DAC. It was supposed to be a temp DAC after I sold the $15k Lumin X1. Lucky for me I liked the LIM more than any DAC I owned for almost all my gear. It was not a homerun with the AHB2 amp. I am testing it out now in Yggi+ NOS mode which may be what I am wanting to hear. I need more time to evaluate. The Yggi+ and AHB2 are rather good, just not excellent.

Some other DACs I owned include:

• Gustard X26 Pro (nice warm DAC)
• Musetec 005 (loved it except it was too warm for my RAAL phones). Loved it with my AHB2 amp
• Audio Mirror Tubador v3

I will have to spend a bit of money to get better than the Yggi+ LIM in my system. The top contender is the Playback Designs 2 top end DACs to pair with the CODA and AHB2.

Oh, and replacing your Node would be a mistake as well, since you already own an outboard DAC. Contrary to the crackpot consensus around this forum, the primary factor in choosing a stand-alone streamer should be its operating software, and rather unfortunately, Bluesound’s is already the best. The main problem is that most around here are like kids on Christmas morning when they receive a shiny new toy in the mail. Of course those same 1s and 0s are going to sound better when you approach “upgrades” in that frame of mind. Meanwhile, many of them own speakers that are distortion machines, or are not remotely capable of a linear response. That or their speakers are 12 inches from room boundaries. Silly.

Some streamers that are head and shoulders better than the NODE

• Sonore OpticalRendu
• Playback Designs Streamer-IF
• Lumin X1

I owned all 3 and compared them side-by-side. The Node is a toy compared to these 3. The beauty of the gear listed above is that they all use a Fibre Optic cable. It is not just 1’s and 0’s that matter with regards to streaming, the noise that gets into the DAC from what the DAC is connected too matters, RJ45, USB, etc. Read up what some great DAC designers think of Fibre and not experts on this forum (like me).

Merason Frerot DAC + Upgraded Power Supply.

I have both Benchmark DAC3 B and Frerot and while Benchmark has nice detailed sound Frerot is just pure, analog like sounding music.

All I know is the vinyl side of my system sounds clear, clean, precise, dynamic, great soundstage and separation… glorious. I would put my system up against any like priced system.
The digital side, good soundstage, dynamic but not as clear clean or precise. Not bad, but certainly not near the sound quality of vinyl. I would NOT put my system up against any like priced systems  

That leaves the DAC and/or the streamer as the problem. New DAC arrives today, so we shall see. 
As I said at the beginning, I am a vinyl guy. I play digital as a convenience, while that may increase with the improvements, I am not willing to spend more on the digital side vs analog. I don’t need digital to be glorious, just very good. 
So, on a like for like purchase, my Rega Aris and Qutest are very equal. On the streamer side, I am thinking something like Auralic Aries G1.1. vs my 1Xpression/ Hana ML. Thanks 

I would also consider Simaudio Moon MiND 2 streamer.

I have it in addition to the dCS Network Bridge and Moon, while as not as good as Bridge, comes pretty close.

@helomech 

Sorry if you don’t like my R11’s and/or my Warp 1. While speakers are a matter of taste (and measurements) the R11’s are very well reviewed & were EISA award winners for best high end speakers. I consider them to be a strength, perhaps my strongest component. 
I needed a class D amp for form factor. The LSA is also very well reviewed and (I think) the best price performance class D amp on the market… albeit maybe a little underpowered for my KEF’s. 
My MM2 is definitely my weak link. Thanks 

The addition of my Rogue tube preamp with NOS Brimar’s brought (perhaps needed) warmth to my system. That was an excellent addition. Very nice combination. 

If you have the new Node (N130), try the USB Audio output to the Chord Qutest

A bit late to the game, but in my opinion the delta sigma dacs can be quite resolving, but lose on soundstage. R2R dacs typically excell at soundstage, and with good material, put the vocalist in the room with you. I did audition a Chord Qtest once, and it did nothing for me. I bought a Gustard R26 dac, and have no interest in looking any further. Glad you arrived, enjoy!

Thanks, that’s the plan. My new USB cable just arrived. I had attached the node via USB to my MM2. Moving from USB C to B with the Qutest. 

Luxman L-509 AXll

Just installed the Qutest. Sounds wonderful, clarity throughout the range, dynamic with great soundstage. Similar sound signature to my MM2, but with clarity throughout the range. Looking forward to it being fully broken in (used, but only 12-15 hours on it). Another benefit is CD quality streaming from Qobuz also sounds great. With my MM2, only HR sounded ok, CD quality was less than OK. 

Might not need a new streamer after all. 😎

Question for Qutest users. What filter setting do you prefer? I am using flat with rolloff after 20mHz. 

Anyone using the supplied USB cable? I bought an Audioquest cinnamon but will return and get my $140 if the supplied USB is good. 
Thanks!
 

BTW, listening to Diana Kroll in HR right now. Sounds magical! Thanks again for all your outstanding recommendations!

Every cable has its own sound signature, just like any other component of the audio chain. Therefore, you may like my recommendation or not, it's a try and see matter, but IMO the Supra USB (the cheapest one, not the Excalibur, I had both and sold the Excalibur) is very good and the value for money is through the roof.

Hi , nice stereo and your search is well thought. I have the original Yiggy ( Gen 2 ). I feed it with a Project Stream Box Ultra and connect with a Cardas Clear usb. I’m happy with my setup. I have a modded Thorens TT with a Grado Prestige cartridge.  The DAC compares favorably when compared to the TT. I also run a Rogue RP-1. I know Rogue recommends Mullard and Brimar are popular , but after trying about 10 brands of nos tubes , I really like Tekefunkens. After trying different Tekefunkens I was fortunate enough to score 2 pairs of new G73R Tekefunkens. I know you asked about DAC’s , but if you haven’t already, try some smooth plate Tekefunkens in your system. I won’t muddy up your thread any more, so PM me with questions. And good luck on your DAC search. Cheers , Mike B. 

BTW, listening to Diana Kroll in HR right now. Sounds magical! 

Ah, the German singer. Yes, she's popular with us Canadian's too :) 

Might not need a new streamer after all. 😎

I don't need a streamer either, but I am researching for one anyway. 😎

Master Yoda says, “confirmation bias strong in this one it is.” 

You were correct on the Qutest low end. It is a little light, but not at all muddy, and crisp and clear throughout the range. As I stated at the beginning, form factor due to space was critical and the Qutest is perfect & sounds very good. A keeper. 
You were dead wrong IMHO on the RME. Cheap equalization introducing distortion, based upon some marketing guys thought that equalization differentiate their product is not a good idea. I want a DAC to be just that… convert digital to analog well. 
If I wanted equalization (which I don’t), I would buy something designed for it, like the miniDSP SHD with Dirac. 
But thanks for your thoughts. BTW, you are no Yoda IMHO.

But you do have a way of getting under my skin… sorry for being snarky. 

@signaforce I like how you chose your DAC long ago, but the suggestions keep coming in 😁

@mclinnguy 

I know, decision made… time to move on. Can I close the discussion?

regarding streamers, if you haven’t already, I’d recommend reading this thread all the way from the beginning.  a lot of different perspectives to consider:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/750-intel-nuc-vs-6000-aurender-n200-i-don-t-hear-the-difference?utm_campaign=website&utm_medium=email&utm_source=sendgrid

@mdalton 

Thanks, good read. 

Congrats on the new DAC, it’s a very fine unit.

@2psyop 

Thank you! I agree. 😎

@signaforce 

My pleasure.  Here’s another recent thread, btw:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/another-post-about-a-streamer-upgrade?utm_campaign=website&utm_medium=email&utm_source=sendgrid

I’m happy with my Aries G2.1, and have grown to love MQA from Tidal. The Aries will do a partial unfold. It’s more fuzzy, but there’s something so right about the mids. I second recommendations to improve all aspects of the digital chain. It will just keep getting better, and I’ll probably be investing more in power cords soon and before a new DAC, as I keep waiting for a good AK4499EXEQ model. The Gustard looks nice, but I’m also trying to minimize money sent to support the CCP. Glad you found your happy place and congrats to you and moderators for running a good thread.

@nagel 

Thank you! This thread was very useful for me. 
The Aries series is definitely on my shortlist! Will then downgrade my node & MM2 to my second system in the family room… Yamaha AVR with Goldenear soundbar…no vinyl, currently compact HT, using MusicCast for streaming, and internal AVR DAC.  Will be a huge step up. Thanks!

@signaforce I had a Quetest  with Auralic Aries G1 for several years. Great combination. I used a WiireWorld Platinum USB.  These days Auralic Aries G2.2, Chord Mscaler and Chord TT2. Using Shunyata Alpha NR v.2  PC on the G, and Shunyata Sigma USB and 2x Sigma v.2 spdif BNC’s for the Chord Dual input . setup. And yes it sounds e’ffing amazing 🤩 

Just bought an Aurender N150 & look forward to its arrival. I think it will be a great match for my system & my Chord. Thanks again!

I’m now done… at least for now. 😏

I sure hope you get the same reaction I got when I upgraded my streamer. Hope you don’t have the problem I experienced, where I was so impressed, that I went from a Innuos pulse mini to the pulse. Good on you for starting out on a good product like the Aurender. 

@gkelly 

Thanks! I think I will be happy!