Another vote for Joseph Audio. The Pulsar and Perspective are both now in mk2 Graphene!
Curious what people think is the best "value" high end speaker (~5K to 15K)
I am on a long search for speakers and just curious what people think is the best value both new or used in speakers ranging from around $5000 to $15000? I have a set of Paradigm S8's (V1) and love them but looking for another set for another set in a different listening area (25 x 20?, maybe larger). I love the full sound of JBL's and looking for something in that range (it also helps that JBL's seem to hold their value better than most, which will be a consideration). The only drawback to JBL is footprint. I prefer a smaller footprint which is why after reading I hope to listen to several B&W 800 series but open to suggestions across the board. used Watt Puppies? Revels? I am curious about peoples experience with McIntosh XR100's.
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@winefix wrote: Spatial Audio Triode Masters, best speakers I have ever owned, and I have or owned most of the usual suspects. I’ve got the Strada 2 and was thinking about upgrading to the Spatial Audio M4. You’ve heard both. What would you say is the difference? How do they compare? |
Let your ears tell you the truth. Blather is just that, but listen to your chiices. For me, it was all over when I first heard Maggies. I confess to my bia and Smike wveryday as I listen to the magic created. We alm have our own journey and the only way to know what is best for you is reasearch using your ears, not blather from a salesperson or troll. |
stereo5
... I'll say one thing, if I walked into an audio store with the intent of purchasing speakers there and bo1972 was my salesman, I would run out the door as fast as I could.Beware the audio guru. |
"Reviewers are probably the ones with the best suited experiences to do this but since many don’t trust paid reviewers that doesn’t help. Most reviews are paid, welcome in the world of audio. We talked a lot with many different manufacturers in the last 2 years. The facts proof that they often focus on their products. And that they have little insight and knowledge regarding other audio products. When we talk about the acoustics, smog, highfrequent noise and magnetism they know even less. Sound is very complex, and that is why you need to understand all aspects. |
Audio is based on properties. You only have to use your common sense. We are not talking about any kind of rocket science. We care talking about facts. If you cannot handle the truth that trial and error has no real foundation, the results will always limit your endresults. Again it can be proven by facts and sound. The remarks are again focused on brands and me personal. It proofs that people still don’t understand audio. You need to understand sound and music first. Like you need to understand all the aspects which influences both sound and stage. When you cannot accept this, you are the one who limits himself. There is no discussion possible. You need to learn to spend less focus on brands and produts. And focus more on sound and music in general. This will give you more insight in how audio works and why things sound as they sound. Why is it so difficult to focus more on sound and music? |
I think the problem with asking about the "best value" is that it is almost always the least expensive items in the range. The law of diminishing returns seems to still be in effect. Unless you start counting in absolute money "savings" then a high price item that sounds like even higher priced items will be "worth" the most money. Then you run into the problem that most of us have not spent very much time with a variety of +20k components and therefore have a hard time telling with certainty when a 10k component is as good. Reviewers are probably the ones with the best suited experiences to do this but since many don't trust paid reviewers that doesn't help. If you don't mind the reviewers you can just read magazines year-end issues and see which component they did think were "punching above their weight" during the last year. After saying all this, just for fun, I would say that the Boenicke W5 impressed me during the few minutes I heard them. About $5k. http://boenicke-audio.ch/w5_c/ |
This thread is all about loudspeakers? So it make sense how people make their choices? If people ask me a normal question I just answer. When you loose dynamics in your system these days compression is a limitation what many system lacks in their drive. Many loudspeakers use materials which are not that light and fast in response. Almost all regular loudspeakers still use voice coils. For example Monitor Audio does not use them anymore. This creates a lot less compression. And a much faster reponse. It improves both dynamic range and layering in sound. Compression also means losing in realism in sound of the low frequencies. Speed and timing are essential parameters in sound. That is why you need loudspeakers who own a fast response. That it why the material and techniques which are used are so important these days. These days we see dome-tweeters a lot less and in the comming years more brands will use different tweeters. For the mid and low-frequency drivers the materials are also getting lighter and faster. The Monitor Audio Platinum drivers use a mix from ceramics and aluminium. But the thing what makes their drivers unique is that the back of their drivers use carbonfiber. This makes the level in disstortion a lot less. This you can directly hear in more layers of instruments and even of voices. Their drivers do not use a voice coil anymore. But they even placed the driver in a cylinder. So the driver can only go up and down. Even at very low volume levels they create a lot of drive in the low.frequencies. Tomorrow Monitor Audio will introduce the new Gold series. They will use many of the Platinum features and techniques. Like many people use a separate dac instead of a source with an inbuild dac. But when you compare many sources with an inbuild dac vs sources with a separate dac. The outcome often shows that sources with an inbuild dac owns better dynamics so less compression. We have done a lot of research in everything what has to do with electricity in the last 4 years of time. Most conditoners limit audiosystems as well in their dynamic range. But the best conditioners will improve the dynamics as well. Like many people have no idea that smog, highfrequent noise and magnetism absorbs a lot of the dynamic range of each individual system. Sound is very complex and that is why you need to understand all the different aspects who limits the dynamic range of each system. |
@bo1972 Seriously man? I am new here so trying to be respectful but you are not adding any value and screwing up the purpose of this thread. Moderators? ? @ Thank you @cleeds @stereo5 It is definitely loud and I am surprised based on what you are telling me that I have not blown both speakers as well. I am a little confused though, It was done as an experiment (although I do listen loud frequently) , Both my Mac setups don't seem to get as loud as I would imagine given the efficiency of the speakers and the projected watts being fed to them. My MC300 especially seems to top out at a point where I can still have a conversation. I did just purchase an SPL meter and my ears definitely come away from a session like that ringing but still don't seem to give me that concert like punch that I crave. Maybe my ears are already damaged but my goal when listening at this volume is to get that punch in the chest from an SPL viewpoint. I am wondering if there is another limiting factor going on in my setup? Modwright Oppo 105 or old Sony transport into an NAD M51 DAC (or Mytek Brooklyn) to a C48 to the 501's all fairly well regarded cables (Morrow etc.). It is a beautiful thing when I can listing to smooth jazz then transition to some Nickel Creek and other bluegrass, and then to chest punching rock all in the same session all with the same setup getting an emotional connection from all of them. |
When you would understand how sound works and what it is. It will make you understand a lot better what the differences are between all different loudspeakers. Now you choose loudspeakers based on trial and error. The question is: Are you aware that trail and error is a very limited way of choosing your loudspeakers? Trail and error is always the same way in choosing. Creating audio by gambling. There is no foundation. Even many manufacturers and distributers all agreed with this. Will you continue audio without a real foundation....... |
bo1972 Please stop only focusing on products and brands. Try to learn what sound is ...Hey, bo, please check the title of this thread: Curious what people think is the best "value" high end speaker (~5K to 15K)That is why posters here are "focusing on products and brands." That is what’s under discussion here. |
Please stop only focusing on products and brands. Try to learn what sound is and what it does. Just start reading about how our emotion works regarding music. Trial and error will never bring you to a stunnig and addictive level. Audio is not about me either, try to learn to look a little further. This is a new year so see it as a new opportunity. Do not make it personal all the time. When people make it personal, I will put a mirror in front of you. Just reply on the thread. Try to become aware that trial and error is the main reason why audio is often so limited. When you do something without a real foundation the facts proof that the results are limited and will stay limited. I am not the one who limits you. You need to learn and become aware that each person is the one who can limit himself. You only can reach a higher level when you try to do things differently! |
gene3x...…………….. With those Power Guard lights flashing, that amp is putting out somewhere around 750-800 watts RMS as the MC501 has 2DB of headroom. I am surprised you didn't blow your eardrums out. I run an MC152 with GE Triton Ref speakers and with the meters at -3db and no power guard lights on, I am getting 108db SPL and it is waaaaay too loud! You must have a huge room. |
I have the Mcintosh MC501's and have pushed both the Persona's and the Tekton DI's till the power guard lights on both are blinking at me. They both stayed clean and clear which is impressive given the fact that most Mac stuff is pushing more than the actual rated power. Clean power seems to be a huge factor. My OLD set of Maggies MG1 I think buzzed the ribbon with an old Sony ES receiver that I had with not much going through them. But recently hooked them up to the MC300 in the other room and held up well running some real wattage through them. |
I may have given my 2 cnts somewhere in here. Anyway, Emerald Physics 2.8s are on sale, or can be purchased with a little bargaining round $5K. I haven't heard them, but based on my 2 years with their KC IIs, they should be giant killers. Open baffle means you are not paying for cabinetry and they're 96dB so you can run them with small power amp/s |
I own the Legacy Focus XDs with the Wavelet DAC/preamp/crossover/room correction unit and I could not be happier. I listened to B&W, GE Tritons and bunch of others, nothing even came close to what this system does. I have a Cary 120s mk2 driving the mids and AMT tweeters, truly spectacular imaging, tight full bass extension and smooth detailed top end. I doubt I will ever want more. And all this for well under 15k. |
I have heard good things about Salk and are definitely on a demo list for me. Thank you for the value input Larry. I am definitely enjoying the Tekton DI's and I have to say they will be hard to beat for the price although not as aesthetically pleasing as others. I am now comparing them to the Persona 3f's in my space and I have to say that I am totally impressed although I can see what people mean about the Beryllium tweeters being harsh after awhile. They would be especially harsh after loud rock music for long periods of time but are absolutely a great speaker all around. The 3f's have amazing bass response given their size. |
I went to the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest in October. Listened to every speaker demo and I thought the Salk Song3 Encore’s with a price of $6,000 to be by the best in that price range. They are incredible and sounded better than a pair of $60,000 speakers I listened to. Jim Salk uses the best tweeters, mid and bass drivers you can buy. He can afford to do so because he sells direct and does not have to compromise his quality in order to sell his speakers to retailers at a discounted price. |
Audio is all about those products which own all the different aspects/properties of sound. To create a stunning endresult you need loudspeakers which can reveal all the aspects/properties of sound. This has nothing to do with personal taste. We are talking about facts. Most of our clients said; when we would not have heard the Monitor Audio Platinum by Tru-Fi we would never have bought them. So it proofs that it is a different level and quality when you use all the talents/properties they own. Many of my clients visited shows and other shops during Monitor Audio presentations. And they are always amazed how poor the quality is of these demoes. In over 99% of all these demoes are done in a 2D stage. The thing is that people focus on brands and products all the time. You only know Monitor Audio by trail and error shops. Because they all work by trial and error. This is your world and also your truth. We have proven that Tru-Fi is a totally different world compared to the trail and error world. I would never buy a Monitor Audio from a trial and error shop. The endresults would be 100% unacceptable. We can create a superior level out of each individual product by Tru-Fi compared to any manufacturer, distributer or shop can create by trial and error. We will proof that the Tru-Fi world is so much more effective than the limited trail and error world. And that this creates a totally different truth. In 2017 LG visited my home. I showed them what we could create with their Oled screens. The person from LG was amazed about the picture he saw. He said; I have never seen this level before. Not even in Korea at LG. We also do vision by Tru-Fi. So we create vision based on the properties vision is based on. We use the best and most expensive Calman software and tools. But we now even modify Oled screens. And we did a lot of reseach regarding the influence of smog, magnetism and highfrequent noise on vision. Here we also use many different tools (accessories) to limit these influences. This way we create an unmatched level in vision as well. We create sound and vision. This creates different levels in quality and result compared to buy audio products by trial and error. Most people have still no idea how limited the level in result is what they get by trail and error. The Tru-Fi world is superior in endresult in stereo, surround and in vision. You can use it for each brand. Tru-Fi has nothing to do with brands and products. Because the focus is only based on the properties each product owns. It is a totally different approach how we create sound. The facts proof that it is in result superior than what trail and error ever can create for you. That is why I wrote that people need to understand that trail and error is the reason why they limit themselves so much. Trial and error is very ineffective based on the 100% fact that it lacks any kind of real foundation. All manufacturers and distributers I spoke agreed with this. We can proof it by sound and vision over and over again. The sound you hear will always tell you the truth. Each single human being wants that sound what has the biggest influence on their emotion. And for vision counts the same. I made huge steps in result when I started in 2017 to adapt sound&vision based on how our emotion gets triggered by it. I can adapt each single property of sound of an audiosystem. We can change modifications, our Statement Audio Pro-measurement and they way we use amps, cables, sources and loudspeakers. I learned to extract each individual product on their aspects/properties of sound. This makes me able to create and control each audiosystem. That is why we add those missing aspects/properties of sound to systems of new clients who do not own all the aspects/properties of sound. Tru-Fi proofs by sound and most of all by emotion why it is so much more addictive and intense to listen at compared to any incomplete trial and error created system |
bo1972, as emotional as music and its reproduction is i'm sure it warrants all the type you've put into it, here's the thing tho'. NO WAY monitor audio is going to fit all that onto a brochure! seriously. nearfield listening can and will usually fix the shortcomings all but those MA 200,s suffer, leaving us with tone and clear reproduction. Monitor audio speakers always burned my ears in the past so I haven't listened to any in many years. |
