Ok, this is not a question about relaxing, but about listening to evaluate how the system (or a piece of gear is sounding).
What, in your experience, are the pluses and minuses of altering your state of mind for listening? This can include anything you've used to affect your everyday state of mind, from coffee, beer, scotch, tobacco, to much stronger — and psychoactive, dissociative — additives.
What do you gain by altering your consciousness in terms of what you notice, attend to, linger on, etc? What causes more details to emerge? What allows you to stick with a thread or, alternately, make new connections?
Or perhaps you like to keep all those things *out* of your listening; if that's you, please say a bit about why.
I had quite a few experiences of listening to music while in altered states of mind during my mis-spent youth. While I should have been in College, underground dance music and raves became my priority.
I was a beginner audiophile at age 12, had my life changed by music (and God at the same time) at age 18, and around age 30 started learning about high end audio. With all that said, becoming a critical listener is number 1. Closing your eyes, clearing your mind of everything and just listening is how you will really enjoy this hobby. About 2 weeks ago I had a 5 hour listening session with a neighbor. Both her and her husband could hear how amazing my stereo sounds in the first 30 seconds of listening. She was hooked and we listened for 5 hours. It was so cool to see her mind just being blown. There were even a few songs that she swore were remixes because she was hearing so much more musical information. By the end of our time spent listening, she understood noise floor, attack, decay, dynamic swings, imaging and soundstage and was a pro at picking up micro details. Anyways, my point is, you can get huge amounts of enjoyment out of these high end systems if you just listen. Clear your mind of all thoughts, and concentrate on what you are hearing. Try listening to each individual instrument and then all of them together. Also, in a way, it’s helpful not to get overly critical of what you are hearing. Much of what we listen to is recorded or mastered poorly or even just mastered or mixed in a way that is not or preference. Last thing to think about is the emotional connection. If your system draws you in and grabs ahold of your emotions your on the right track. Theres a few songs that I can play that will bring tears to my eyes no matter what mood Im in. When music, and vocals in particular, can at times become spooky or haunting then your on the right track. Last last thing… I don’t think that Alcohol makes you a better listener. I think it dulls the senses. You’ll listen much louder. You’ll think you are hearing more but your not. Herb may change the way you perceive sounds but I find that I’ll become disinterested in listening. Coffee is good at times. I don’t want to discuss others because I don’t want to promote drug use..
Speaking for myself, I would never use any altered state that compromises my analytical faculties for evaluative purposes.
For enjoyment? Of course, absolutely.
Others on this thread have already covered the why quite well. The only thing that I might add is that no two altered states - in my experience - are the same, or rather, I cannot recall them as such.
Similarly, altered states are good for experiential activity, not for evaluative activity.
If you look back at my posts in this thread, you'll see that I'm not proposing altered states as the default for evaluative activity. They're proposed as being *among* the ways one might expand what is noticed in observation or as a prompt to new connections.
Unless you're saying that the are never helpful for evaluative activity. If that's what you mean, why do you think that?
There is a special place for any music that can give me an adrenaline rush; but, there is a cherished (perhaps even sacred) place for any music that can give me goose bumps, regardless of whatever equipment that I was listening to at the time. However, I tend to be more impressed when those things occur during sober listening, because I don't have to question or debate what caused that response.
I've always enjoyed music with good cannabis - used to do psychedelics and 'E' too a few decades ago. Now I hardly even drink anymore, but I always enjoy cannabis! Goes great with music, movies, telly, sports, etc etc.
I stopped reading a few pages in, so forgive me if I repeat something someone else said. Chances are you've listened to your system in an unaltered state often enough. Furthermore, I'm almost sure most of us bought it that way. If it sounds extra groovy while you're buzzed, that's a wonderful bonus. The very reason you altered your state. The system didn't change, the music pleases you and you're happy, what's to wonder about?
....I don't support the use/abuse of drags, either....very disappointing....
Altered States, the movie...obviously K.R. must have dosed with a strychnine laced product, that 'some' enjoyed for the 'intensity' it evoked.
Laughable then, absolutely ludicrous now....but then, I never enjoyed any hallucinations of that nature. Everything just looked like polyethylene to me after awhile....*shrug*
They use all Scanspeak classic drivers. I sometimes thought they could use just a little more presence in the highs/upper mids. Although I like them overall I sometimes wondered about purchasing new speakers. I have had Triangle Antal and B&W something or another in the past.
With the Lokius I made a couple of minor adjustments and immediately now feel everything is pretty darn good. Because it is connected via my tape loop I can just hit tape on my remote and A/B the difference with it in and out. What a great additon to my set up.
For me, a cup of a good green or black tea is good. I do not support the use of drags since the effect lasts for a short while (one cannot be drugged all the time...) and yields conflicts with "the reality" and causes the dependence. Unfortunately our minds are constantly altered, but perhaps, the less the better. I would like to live in "Like a rolling stone" mood all the time, but this is virtually impossible.
Decided to try altered states last night. Russian vodka, Forum Mendo, Mezcal, QSA Stones. They tell you not to eat the worm. Don't eat the worm. https://youtu.be/40FiMy-ak0k?t=18
Forgot to mention subjective physical qualities of our individual brain/ears. Makes me wonder if a truly objective mind can even exist within the ascetic?
This word, objectivity, seems to be so misused these days. In regard to listening to an audio system, I could argue its used as what in reality is a subjective state. Objective listening as used here is in reality an evaluative or judgemental state. This is a state with so many subjective variable impositions as to be perhaps the most subjective state one could exist in.
I'd suggest the most objective state humans can exist in are those of the ascetic mind. A state where no desires, wants, needs exist. In this state no judgment or conscious thought exists. In this state, the mind is freed from past and future, only living in the moment. I can only wonder how the mind would interpret sound emanating from an audio system in this truly objective state. Anyway, I'd suggest the closest we come to an objective state when listening to audio systems is when we are no longer judging the quality of sound, we are only listening to the music emanating from that system. The music takes over the mind, we are living in the moment!
And so, objectivity as used here is in fact one of the most subjective states one could be in. In judgmental state we aren't free from all our prejudices informed by our individual experiences, needs, desires.
I'm not saying there isn't a place for judgmental listening, but understand its not an objective state. Plenty of evidence for that by all the different evaluations of the same equipment, and even by the high likelihood one's system is totally unique amongst all systems on this earth.
"The reason is that long term pot users I've known always end up with the same identifiable traits....poor work ethic, lowered responsibility, less desire to achieve anything, same stupid look on their faces. Long term alcohol users do not seem to go down the gurgler like that. Yes there will exceptions. And in not talking excessive use, I'm sure excessive alcohol brings a person firm too. I'd rather employ a mild drinker than a mild pot smoker. I don't wanna end up like the pot users"
I enjoy Marijuana, not just for the euphoric effect..... in fact I'm a medical patient and there is no cure for my ailment but Marijuana definitely eases my pain....
And as far as work ethic, I often work 10 , 12 hour days.... sometimes longer. I work for a fall down drunk whose output can be measured with a shot glass. My customers wait weeks because they only want me to work on their equipment . My return call rate is lower than any of my peers.... I often go to fix their mistakes.... dont paint with such a broad brush.... such a stupid commentary
these arguments are much about words and semantics. if we all were talking face to face and could work out our exact meanings our differences would be minor.
but no doubt they are enjoyable exercises as long as we don't take ourselves too seriously. :-)
OTOH ’sound’ can be measured and expressed objectively. the significance of those measurements in judging musical performance? that’s a matter of opinion.
Umm..yes we are humans. We didn’t land here on a UFO space ship. ….We can grow organs and clone living things. Think about that for a minute. It seems you are too deep into the ocean of your own ideas to comprehend much else...
This is insulting. I cannot take more time to educate you. I’ve been thinking and writing about objectivity, ethics, scientific method, and more for 25 years. I've explained these things to thousands of reasonably well-educated students, but I admit that some are insulated from new thinking. Objectivity teaches me that there are brick walls when it comes to learning. And to my own ability to conjure up the right phrases for abject density.
Let’s agree to end this here; you can think I’m ignorant and I’ll do the same.
How about if I hire a robot for the objective listening, it will disabuse me of my emotional connection, aka delusional pleasures of connecting with the music. Millercarbon reminded me the machine/robot doesn't hear. In that case I have to do the objective listening, which I now find out isn't possible with humans.
I'm ok with all this, I'll simply listen and build my system based on what's pleasurable to me.
I feel pretty strongly that I ought to be sober when evaluating gear. Costs too much not to be.
My reference point is that typically an album I first listened to with a high or buzz on and then listened to a week later, more often than not, sounded like junk.
It's a cover of a Joni Mitchell song. Mathematically it may measure better but its a pales in musical comparison to the original. I'm in this hobby to feel, to have a song take me somewhere. This is a great example of technician vs musician. Joni not only wrote it but performed it. Is performance measurable? I have a (maybe unhealthy) connection with Joni Mitchell. A lot of singers attempt Joni Mitchell songs but like kissing your sister (don't have a sister so I really wouldn't know) it's not the same.
I think that "critical listening" isn't just about being frequency response, accuracy and all the other attributes you want to assign it but it's all about the only thing that really matters which is the music.
In this society where strong emotions are stifled if an enhanced state of mind helps you emotional connect to sound and rhythm then it's critical listening. I you are listening with a measuring microphone more power to you but you are only getting a partial picture of what is really happening.
Objective reasoning can be thought of as thinking like a machine.
A machine... Designed by a human. With metrics set by humans and human science. With output defined by humans. With output interpreted by humans.
The trail of the human serpent is over everything. Nothing is objective. It’s just that some results are easier to agree upon and are more easily repeated.
What science accomplishes is intersubjective agreement that is based on *stipulated* standards -- which were invented and stipulated to accomplish a purpose.
The kind of objectivity you’re representing here is hardly defended any longer. It relies on a correspondence to an independent reality which is, by definition, inaccessible. That kind of reality may have a place in religion, but not in science.
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