@spenav Okay sure. 

@juanmanuelfangioii 

@juanmanuelfangioii 

When you quote a saying, try to get it right next time. The saying goes:

Two wrongs don't make a right.

That's the opposite of what you said.

So you ask him to go away and then you egg Juan on.

You got the point.  

Húndàn

@jerryg123 

I couldn't resist it Jerry. It was such a comical mistake.

I become less and less comfortable with buying these things. I bought a couple just to be sure when I said they don’t sound like the real thing, I really tried them. Ok, mission accomplished. I had real Nordost Odin 2 in my system and the fake ones do not sound anything like them.

But there is a lot more important point here. Buying stuff that you know is fake is ethically wrong. The problem is there is a large aftermarket for cables. I have bought Transparent and other cables (as test cables). Buy flooding the world with fake branded cables they fuel the used market. I will destroy the fake Nordost that I bought, but will everyone? Will many folks decide to sell them in the used market? This is a real problem. 
 

So, it is really best no one buys these things. 

@ghdprentice Nice post and yes it is of questionable ethics to buy known counterfeit products. 
 

The problem is not the Chinaman.

@ghdprentice 

And yet, you did it...

Ok back to the regularly scheduled program…for those of you who might care how these Chinese cables sound my experience is that the Odin 2 silver RCA interconnects copy sound very good.   I compared them to WBC Mogami and Morrow MA3 and the Odin sounded much better than either of them.  So much more detail, improved bass and more layered defined soundstage.  Best I have heard.

Additionally, I compared the copy Kimber Kable 12TC DIY speaker cable with 100% copper spades to DH Labs  Silver Sonic Q-10 Signature cables and the 12TC sounded much better.  Much more detail, better defined bass and just a much fuller richer sound.  
These Chinese cables are obviously not originals and not giant killers. They are for those hobbyists that can’t afford or justify spending big bucks and are looking for “Value” = great sound for an excellent price.  Ali provides just that in my mind. I just don’t like the labeling of them as brand names.

@tksteingraber I echo your experience with the 12TC speaker cables, except that I bought them terminated from the "Audio Accessary" store (that typo kills me). Beat my Atlas Equator cables by a significant margin, with better bass extension and resolution. Another one of my recommended finds on AE. 

As I stated earlier in the thread, I purchased a set of Chinese "Neardost" Odin Gold IC's (RCA) recently and then purchased an additional 5 pairs of them as they significantly bettered a much pricier IC, which I simply sold off (two pairs) recently for about 3X  more than I paid for the 6 pairs of Ali Express cables. 

Did an interesting comparison at a friend's place yesterday; his system is considerably more "upmarket" than mine is, consisting of a Clearaudio Innovation table & Charisma cartridge, an Allnic phono preamp (forget the model), an Allnic L-10000 preamp, Bryston 14B Cubed power amp and B&W 802D3 speakers. 

This was not an apples to apples comparison (ie. Chinese Odin Gold vs. the real thing) but we did compare the Chinese Odin Gold in his system to genuine (older) Nordost Valhalla V1. I took two sets of the Chinese OG over and they simply replaced the two sets of Valhalla running between his phono preamp/preamp and preamp/power amp. 

For music, we listened to a copy of Lloyd Cole's Antidepressant as well as an "Audiophile Series" half speed master of Supertramp's Crime of the Century. 

This was not a blind test, but sighted, and there were 4 of us there including me. 

The 3 others preferred the Valhalla but personally, I did not like it as much as the Chinese knockoff Golds. The others found the Valhalla to be more detailed (which I can understand) and also felt that it sounded fuller, which I could not understand and definitely disagreed with. 

The strengths of the Valhalla were in high frequency extension (by comparison the Gold knockoffs sounded slightly rolled off) and they sounded tighter and more controlled in the bass. But they also sounded considerably thinner (to me only, which I thought was a bit strange) and that thinness contributed to what I perceived to be a "sense" of more detail that you often get with a cable that does sound slightly thinner with what I think is an emphasis on the upper midrange. 

By comparison, the Gold knockoffs sounded to me quite a bit fuller/richer in the midrange (some might possibly find them too "bloomy" there but I certainly did not) but bass was not quite as tight and there was slightly less treble energy. They had a slightly more "mid hall" presentation than the Valhallas as far as I was concerned.

One of the others commented, for example, that he felt that a sax solo sounded more detailed on the Valhallas and I would agree that leading and trailing edge of notes certainly had more apparent detail, but at the expense of body and richness of sound from the sax itself. 

Similarly, the Valhalla also seemed to "highlight" vocals a bit more, isolating them in space but also sounding slightly sibilant to me. 

In the end, none of us really know what the master tape sounds like so it comes down to subjective preferences in many cases. To some, differences are more pronounced to others and those subjective preferences come into play. 

So differences were heard and preferences expressed. The one comment from the group that was unanimously agreed upon was that the price differential made absolutely no sense: $100 Cnd. for the two sets of Gold knockoffs vs. the new retail price of two sets of the Valhalla at the time (I believe my friend purchased used) of around $8000 Cnd. And that the overall presentation of both interconnects was much closer than would be expected at the price points. 

Thinking afterward, I also thought that if my friends preferred the Valhallas overall presentation that the straight knockoff Odin might be preferable to them as opposed to the Gold, which is supposed to have a warmer tonal balance and different presentation vs. the non-Gold knockoffs (and why I ordered the Golds in the first place). 

@roxy54

Absolutely, yes, I did buy some. That was not a good thing. I thought about it. Realizing that if I never resell them that harm is somewhat mitigated. I will not be recommending them to anyone or buy any more. Experiment complete.

I have spent over thirty years working all over the world in global manufacturing and logistics. The purchase also provides food for a few poor Chinese, so, there is that. I have been in factories all over China. Most produce good and not stolen products. Most have benefited them and us. Like all things there are exceptions. Because China does not have patent laws more goes on there than in most other countries. Much happens in off beat factories as are producing these clones. 

@ghdprentice 

I do understand your thinking on this. I was too harsh.

Regarding the ethical question, if I buy something which is a copy and know it is a copy is that a problem? If a local artist paints a copy of Vincent van Goghs starry night and I like it and pay him $500 for it has anything unethical occurred? I don’t think there is an ethical question here since everyone in this discussion knows these cables are copies. The only problem occurs is it people buy them and attempt to resell them as the genuine article, which I agree is disturbing. 

+1 hdm Thanks for the thorough report comparing the Odin Gold to the real Valhallas. FWIW, I read the review of the real Odin to the Valhallas, to the Odin 2s. The reviewer preferred the Odin 2s

Initially, I stuck my toe in the unknown waters of NEARdost Odin 2s, eventually completely redoing all my cables, except from the 20amp dedicated outlet to my CorePower 1800, for which I bought a <$50 PC from Amazon on a recommendation from a local 'phile. It was so good I bought a second one for my Audio Alchemy DDP-1s PS 5 outboard LPS. I then tried a Gold PC for my Voyager 350 GaN amp, then a second one for my DDP-1 Dac/Pre. Liking what they did (warmer and yet more open) I bought a Odin Gold XLR, which I just got yesterday. Warming the system up now to compare/replace the Odin 2s 

@roxy54 wrong again:

Yep the H word in Mandarin.

Description: When a person attempts to justify an action against another person because the other person did take or would take the same action against him or her.

Logical Forms:

Person 1 did X to person 2.

Therefore, person 2 is justified to do X to person 1.

Person 1 believes that person 2 would do X to person 1.

Therefore, person 1 is justified to do X to person 2.

Example #1:

Jimmy stole Tommy’s lunch in the past.

Therefore, it is acceptable for Tommy to steal Jimmy’s lunch today.

Explanation: It was wrong for Jimmy to steal Tommy’s lunch, but it is not good reasoning to claim that Tommy stealing Jimmy’s lunch would make the situation right.  What we are left with, are two kids who steal, with no better understanding of why they shouldn’t steal.

Example #2:

It looks like the waiter forgot to charge us for the expensive bottle of champagne.  Let’s just leave -- after all, if he overcharged us, I doubt he would chase us down to give us our money back that we overpaid.

Explanation: Here the reasoning is a bit more fallacious because we are making an assumption of what the waiter might do.  Even if that were true, two ripoffs don’t make the situation right.

Exception: There can be much debate on what exactly is “justified retribution” or “justified preventative measures”.

Fun Fact: Three lefts make a right.

@juanmanuelfangioii 

The saying that everyone knows is the one that I quoted, not the one you cited. And if you use your Mandarin obscenity again, it will be removed again, like I had it removed last time.

Obscenity?

Sniff.

Everyone?

The saying that everyone knows is the one that I quoted.

@roxy54 

Thanks, but no problem. 

Listened to Paul Butterfield Blues Band this morning. I am very familiar with this disc. Completely warmed up. Cut 8 has a good bit everything on it

System: Emerald Physics 3.4s OB, 12" concentric woofers with 1" polyester tweeters. Very efficient, Audiolab 6000 CDT, Audio Alchemy DDP-1 + PS 5 outboard power supply, 20amp dedicated line, CorePower 1800 PLC, all are on iso/vib devices, connectors treated with The Audio Scientist Cable Enhancer Rx. All cables well broken in. I replaced a pair of Neardost Odin 2s with Odin Golds. Obviously ~ 50 hours break in needed, but initially, the stage came forward, and wider/better separation, but the background sounded clearer and deeper in the mix. Foot tappin’, head bobbing! GOOD STUFF $62.00/1.5m UNREAL

I only have experience with the fake Golds but I really like them. At somewhere around the 50-75 hour mark they became much more relaxed and holographic for lack of a better word (and they are pretty relaxed right out of the bag). Soundstage depth was probably marginally enhanced but depth or sense of depth seemed to really improve with break in. They are a very "musical" cable as opposed to a "hi-fi" sounding cable.

I’m going to experiment a bit further and have a couple of sets of the Golds cryogenically treated and see how they react. As it is right now, they are the only non-cryoed cables in my system as I’ve been either having stuff cryoed myself or running cables that have been treated by the manufacturer for the past 15+ years.

I’m not looking forward to the burn-in post cryo as it will be a bit nasty and definitely take some time (50-100 hours all over again I’d expect, maybe more) and I normally just take cables in to one of my local dealers to have them run on the cable cooker for a few days after cryo. Cost is there but the benefits of not having to deal with burn-in are worth it IMO.

But my dealer with the cable cooker is a Nordost dealer and I don’t have the heart to show up there with multiple pairs of fake Odin Golds (would be two initially and then possibly 4 more!) and ask them to cook them lol!

Pluses and flipsides

The plus is that you have informed somewhere south of 39,000 viewers that they can buy counterfeits of very expensive cables for very little $s.  This alerts potential buyers of the real thing to be very careful when purchasing on the used market.

The flipside is that you have informed the unscrupulous of these 39,000 of the potential to make some easy money selling counterfeits to unsuspecting buyers thinking they are getting the real thing.

Unfortunately, the real loser of this situation is the unsuspecting buyer thinking he is purchasing an authentic cable.  The real winner is the manufacturer of the genuine wire that is being sold for such extravagant prices.  I am totally guessing that all the R&D, material and manufacture costs of the wire (genuine) is under $300.  As I have mentioned before, compared to the complexity of designing amps, sources and speakers, and the complexity of many of the jobs held by members of this forum, the development of a good/excellent sounding cable seems pretty mundane.  Just my opinion.

OK, up the $300 o $500, LOL.

For anyone interested, I've found a compromise that works for me.  You can see it on thread "Not Chinese Fakes But Not big $$$ Either"  

A fellow 'phile who pointed me to the Odin Gold says he likes these better

https://www.china-hifi-audio.com/choseal-hi-fi-cables-qiuyeyuan-c-16/choseal-bb-5605-balanced-interconnects-cables-xlr-pair-occ-hiend-p-94

I, too, tried the fake Odin 2 cables and found them to sound pretty good. A bit harsh but more detailed than the Audioquest it replaced. I definitely agree that there is a moral concern, though. I ended up using acetone to wipe off the Odin brand name from the connector and used wood stain to cover the burned on mark on the wood block. That way nobody can sell these on the second hand market as Odin's after I'm dead. Interestingly, I do now wonder what legal ultra high-end cables sound like, which makes the fakes a bit of a loss-leader! :-)

@pprocter

I had the privilege of auditioning a set of real Odin 2 ($17K) in my system for several weeks (my system is shown under my ID). I replaces a set of Transparent Ultra Gen 6 ( ~$3K). They sounded very similar for a few days… then I started to realize I was hearing slightly more detail, but the details were more natural sounding… and real… the more I listened the better they sounded. I had to pull them from my system… I could not afford to buy them… but they are clearly world class interconnects… pretty awe inspiring. If I could afford them, I would upgrade my preamp (to the Top of the line ARC)…. Then buy Odin 2 interconnects and. cables.

This is wrong on so many levels. There are plenty of good quality Chinese cables and components that aren't fakes.

Producing fakes destroys the used market which is very important to our hobby.

Currently I've seen some hi-end cables I would like to buy but the seller can't produce a receipt. Without provenance used cables are a gamble and as good as worthless.

Would you like to live in a country where you can't trust that baby formula doesn't have gypsum mixed in it?

Fake drugs, fake everything.

Generally I buy new now unless I can buy with proof of original sale.

Good for you.

@lordmelton + 1 very good post and great points.

Someone need to go on a low sodium diet. Salty. 

"@lordmelton There are plenty of good quality Chinese cables and components that aren’t fakes."

Exactly. And likely to get better quality (less filtered) sounding cables too.

Or, if you try them, and don’t like them and decide to resale them, at least you can do so without having to explain to the next buyer "why you don’t like the fake cables that don’t sound like the real McCoy". Maybe some nice genuine Chinese brand cables to try too - whatever those might be. 

Oooh but they sound oooh sooo sweeet for sooo soo cheap! I can’t stop myself!

Chairman Xi thanks you.

@jerryg123

I have to give you some credit. After chiding myself and others for buying from the Chinese for all of this time, and supporting counterfeiters, here you are admitting to caving in and doing it yourself! A least you’re an honest phony!

Also, I’m sorry to tell you that if the packaging is the same as shown in the link you provided, it is probably not genuine. I don’t think that Furutech would use a term like "High end performance grace", although I could well be wrong about that. Someone here who has purchased other Furutech products is welcome to chime in.

At least you are consistent as being a part of male anatomy. 

Say what you like, but you can't deny what I said Jerry.

Neither can you slick, rhymes with…..

No worries though I will steer clear from you.

went back and read my posts and other than being sarcastic and saying Chairman Xi thanks you, The CCP encourages these activities and agreeing with lordmeltons post, not sure where I disparaged you or other. Or why I would be an honest phony. 
 

Well doesn’t matter take care. No apology needed as I really do not care. 

 

Don't pretend that you don't get it Jerry. You took a "holier than thou" stance towards members that buy Chinese cables, plain and simple. I knew at the time that some of those who were criticizing would end up buying, and I'm not surprised that you are among them.

You can use sophomoric name calling all you want, but the facts are the facts.

Yawn, "facts are facts."

Whatever.

Sure, glad I only spent $17.00 how about you?

The point is, you spent it. For all your talk, you spent it.

🥱 

Do the AliE Nordost cables come with a Nordost box, warranty registration card, etc.?

Of course not. Duh...

Talk about childish. Real class, the guy just asked a question.

Of course not. Duh...

Talk about childish. Real class, the guy just asked a question.

I thought It looked like a rhetorical question…

Do the AliE Nordost cables come with a Nordost box, warranty registration card, etc.?

I looked at the furutech fi 50 ncf on ali for $18 bucks?...wow Scarey close...I purchased used cable December with 2/fi 50ncf’s with furutech wire...got me trippin now.🚓