CLASS D AMPLIFIER TECHNOLOGY HAS FINALLY ARRIVED TO OUTPERFORM ALL OTHER TOPOLOGIES
The Amplifier is the New Class D Mono Amps using GaN Fets in a unique Patented
Circlotronic output stage…Design by Ralph Karsten of ATMASPHERE MUSIC SYSTEMS
Rated at 100 watts 8 ohms and 200 watts 4 ohms with low distortion across the full audio bandwidth with excellent noise characteristics
I have been using ATMASPHERE MUSIC SYSTEMS MA-1 3.0 with all factory upgrades along with NOS 6NS7 Input Tubes for many years
The New ATMASPHERE MUSIC SYSTEMS CLASS D has outperformed my MA-1 3.0 in all areas…the resolution and transparency are simply an Amazing Accomplishment
Also I sold my MP-3 mk 3.0 and purchased the New MP-3 mk3.3
In my Audio opinion I believe the ATMASPHERE MUSIC SYSTEMS CLASS D MONO AMPS used with the MP-3 mk3.3 will offer one of the most transparent sounding electronics combinations to date…only using the MP-1 mk3.3 will offer more performance
I have used other High End Amplifiers in my system and the ATMASPHERE MUSIC SYSTEMS CLASS D MONO AMPS outperformed all of them as well
Music Lover…Audiophile…Retired Audio/Video Engineer over 45 years
@kuribo a large segment of the market likes state of the art design, excellent objective performance, as well as a neutral and transparent sound.
Slightly circular I think, because those words define the "market" as being those who like state of the art design, excellent objective performance, as well as a neutral and transparent sound. That is actually quite narrow, by my reading, and so large segment is correct but moot.
My own definition of "market" would be substantially wider, and would include other variables, without necessarily excluding those mentioned. Perhaps a different weighting scheme, for as is conceded, everyone has different tastes.
Perhaps by choice like yourself, or for other reasons. Irrelevant.
@kuriboIn most class D designs, the distortion sources in the design are caused by dead time and non-linearities in the encoding scheme. In our design these result in lower ordered harmonics- its not been tailored.
There are many sources of distortion in class d amps, not only those you have mentioned, but also in the output filter. Do you use post filter feedback?
Please share some measurements of the frequency response with load, THD+N with power and frequency, FFT's and IM. Also, can you share the switching frequency used? Lots of claims made here (not all by you) so it would be enlightening to see a more complete picture of how this amp performs in actuality, not how it sounds to those who haven’t heard it yet.
I wonder how well this new product will work with 16 ohm speakers? Sure, it will work, but, how effectively. This is a surprise for folks who have cherished the OTL designs for use with 16 ohm speakers.
My speakers at home are 16 Ohms as well as our speakers at the shop. Any amp driving 16 Ohms will have lower distortion.
So he is adding distortion to please a certain group of people? And those who don’t prefer his particular distortion preference, not so much.
@kuriboIn most class D designs, the distortion sources in the design are caused by dead time and non-linearities in the encoding scheme. In our design these result in lower ordered harmonics- its not been tailored.
Don’t think so. His market is for people who REALLY listen and value how an amp SOUNDS and value his take on harmonic structure of the distortion versus super low standard measurements of distortion. All versions of Purifi and Hypex sound different from each other yet most measure the same. I have no doubt his amp will "sound better" than anyones Purifi....including my modded ones....of course, at a different price point. Some believe the measurements at ASR really mean something.....they do mean something....just not much in the way of how something sounds. Those guys do not listen so they have no idea if their measurements correlate to sound. Ralph has made state of the art tranformerless tube amps for years and his amps have been compared to other amps over and over....so he has a great reference for sound. ASR guys have no reference for sound....they just have some measuring tools. I am pretty sure Ralph won’t send his amps to ASR to be measured. Maybe in a few years someone will send them their own pair and then you can whine about the fact that it does not measure as good in some ways as something.else. Meanwhile, those that have the amps will be grinning because of the beautiful sounds it makes.
So he is adding distortion to please a certain group of people? And those who don’t prefer his particular distortion preference, not so much. Sad when marketing takes the place of producing an amplifier that does what an amplifier is by definition: something that outputs a larger version of the input, nothing more, nothing less.
Sure all hypex and purifi amps sounds different, but not because the amps are different, because people all have different tastes and preferences. No doubt there will be fans and detractors for each and every amp on the market.
I can see you are a big fan but have yet to hear these amps. Confirmation bias alert. No doubt the mods to take it to 11 are forthcoming.
I wish the designer the best of luck. Everyone has different tastes, and surely there will be those who like his flavor of ice cream. As a starting point, I and many others however chose to evaluate the performance of an amp based on objective criteria and without measured performance no doubt a large segment of the market will pass. It’s a very competitive market, especially in class d. The performance standard has been set via Hypex and Purifi and each has been very successful, no doubt because a large segment of the market likes state of the art design, excellent objective performance, as well as a neutral and transparent sound.
GaN is the flavor of the day though to date no one has actually implemented the devices in a way that actually exploits their advantages. One can’t help but wonder if these devices have been implemented in this design in such a way as to actually use them to their potential. Without additional info, we have no idea. For those who bite on all the snake oil fraud, I’m sure they don’t care. Others, who are a little more discerning, surely won't take the word of a snake oil salesman.
The website lists power specs into 16 ohm. Ralph has clearly articulated all amps make less distortion into higher impedance loads so I would anticipate that is a driver still for his design. Will be interesting for someone to measure how these operate into different loads. Yes the M word….. I would expect these to work better with more speakers which would open up some new sales paths for Atmasphere. Has potential to make me a customer which would not have been likely with OTL tube amps given my speaker preferences.
I wonder how well this new product will work with 16 ohm speakers? Sure, it will work, but, how effectively. This is a surprise for folks who have cherished the OTL designs for use with 16 ohm speakers.
@ricevsthans for the link - I did not find class-D yesterday.
@kuriboI don’t think he is competing with Purifi.
I was thinking that his amps are all current amps, but the specs suggest a voltage amp.
All of his other amps are low feedback design, but this one is 35dB of feedback gain.
I am not sure what Hypex and purifi are in terms of feedback gain.
Don’t think so. His market is for people who REALLY listen and value how an amp SOUNDS and value his take on harmonic structure of the distortion versus super low standard measurements of distortion. All versions of Purifi and Hypex sound different from each other yet most measure the same. I have no doubt his amp will "sound better" than anyones Purifi....including my modded ones....of course, at a different price point. Some believe the measurements at ASR really mean something.....they do mean something....just not much in the way of how something sounds. Those guys do not listen so they have no idea if their measurements correlate to sound. Ralph has made state of the art tranformerless tube amps for years and his amps have been compared to other amps over and over....so he has a great reference for sound. ASR guys have no reference for sound....they just have some measuring tools. I am pretty sure Ralph won't send his amps to ASR to be measured. Maybe in a few years someone will send them their own pair and then you can whine about the fact that it does not measure as good in some ways as something.else. Meanwhile, those that have the amps will be grinning because of the beautiful sounds it makes.
We all have different takes on things....vive la differance. Joy to you and everyone.
All the specs he wants to share now are on his website. He has never published measurment graphs......most companies don’t. If you want more detailed specs than I suggest you contact him directly.
“I love my tube OTL to death (not an Atmasphere but from a highly respected design engineer) so if Atmasphere can engineer a Class D that sounds as good or better than a quality tube OTL, that would be AMAZING!”…ITMANDELLA
Well it is truly… Amazing as Atmasphere Music Systems new Class D mono amps have outperformed my MA-1 mk3.0 with NOS Tubes on the driver tubes in all areas…
FYI The OTL’s 1000watts of power at idle while the Class D only draws 10 watts at idle
Anyone?Are they all basing it off of the standard “Bruno parts”?
@holmzNo. The amp uses a module of our own design. I don't see why it could not be used in a bi-amped system.
will you, like Bel Canto now discontinue or gradually phase out your tube based models?
Its way to early to say. One big difference between our tube amps and the class D is the latter behaves as a voltage source with an output impedance of only a few milliOhms. Our tube amps are designed to be instead a power source, meant to work with speakers of higher impedance or speakers that aren’t voltage driven, like most ESLs. http://www.atma-sphere.com/en/resources-paradigms-in-amplifier-design.html
I love my tube OTL to death (not an Atmasphere but from a highly respected design engineer) so if Atmasphere can engineer a Class D that sounds as good or better than a quality tube OTL, that would be AMAZING!
@ltmandella maybe we can get @atmasphere to opine on whether (or how) one could bi-amp the class-D on the bottom (woofer) with your tube gear on MR/Tweeter?
(It is a fantasy of mine at least,)
I have heard many great things about Ralph’s gear.
There also seems to others doing some great work based upon those Class-D systems..,. So hopefully the high end market can allow for a few people doing bespoke gear to exist in respective geographic areas.
Are they all basing it off of the standard “Bruno parts”?
(with their respective additions and experience.)
I think Ralph will be working on bigger Amplifiers in the Class D Domain at a later stage. Remember this is not using anyone else module but he designed it from ground up.
I love my tube OTL to death (not an Atmasphere but from a highly respected design engineer) so if Atmasphere can engineer a Class D that sounds as good or better than a quality tube OTL, that would be AMAZING!
The Class D has no such limitations and can drive a 2 ohm load. Reference: @spkrplus
200 watts into 4 will not drive Apogee speakers, Magnepans to great volume, various Wilson, etc. speakers.
Thank you @ricevs and @tubeguy45 as you two have probably forgotten more than I will probably ever know about transistors, digital, open baffle, transformer and tube builds.
Last year I bought a one of a kind custom Clayton Audio M-200 pure class A stereo amplifier. It was built this way from the shop/factory with the extra heavy duty power supply like the one in the Clayton Audio M-200 mono amp and not a rebuild.
And I was told this thing can perform to a 2 ohm load without breaking a sweat, although you could cook an egg on it in the summertime! And it is rated at 200 watts at 8 ohms per channel and could power ANY speaker pair load. The 1KVA toroidal transformer in it has up to 160,000 microfarads of capacitance.
Since I’ve been on Agon for only about 5 years I’m still learning, so forgive me if I sometimes have to question what it is read here.
The Clayton dealer Al Kallik of Hi Fi Art in Canada who sold me this amp says it will power any set of speakers, and I tended to believe him at the time and Wilson Shen of Clayton Audio hadn’t told me any different.
Back to Ralph, compared to you I know nothing of this audio profession, but I thank you for ALWAYS taking the time to explain and teach in layman like terms to folks like me here.
How amazing it’s going to be for me and us to go on this new journey with you and your team. I know there will be ups and downs, haters and naysayers, but I know in the end you’re gonna have one fine class D amp that ANYONE can afford. Keep us informed of your progress.
I agree high power is necessary for low sensitivity loudspeakers speakers, I built the GR RESEARCH NX OTICA with Servo Woofers…which are 93db @ 8ohms…16hz-22khz in an open baffles design…I have servo set to high damping @ 20hz
Paired with the GR Research NX Otica and Servo Woofers…
Atmasphere Class D mono amps with 100 watts @ 8ohms are simply incredibly transparent and the most open soundstage I have ever had in all my audio journeys
BTW I am using the Pass Labs XVR-1 that I upgraded with Polystyrene Capacitors
200 watts into 4 will not drive Apogee speakers, Magnepans to great volume, various Wilson, etc. speakers. There are no ohm taps on a transistor amp. The output impedance on Ralphs amp is low......but the voltage/current it limited. Works the same on class d and class A or A/B. Purifi has a new module about to be released that has 40 amps of current instead of the 26 for its current model. This will make it double from 250 watts at 8 ohm to 500 at 4 ohm and even puts out 900 watts into 2 ohms......now that will drive more speakers, for sure. I am sure Ralph will do something similar. Myself.....100 watts is plenty. But I have easy to drive speakers.
This cat’s been out of the bag for a while. I think there’s been talk of it here for about a year at least.
Yep, Ralph himself has causally mentioned he was working on such.
100 watts is just not enough for some speaker systems. I would go at least 300/600/1000 watts
No need to if the amp has 4 ohm taps. And even it didn’t, if the speaker is rated at 4 ohms, you gotta a banger. Not to mention if you have efficient speakers 100 watts is plenty.
About class D amplifier current? I need to study up on that...How does class D amplifier current work? Is it dissimilar to class A and AB? Anyone?
Every single person (including me) is necessary in this universe. No one needs to go away. If you do not like what I say.......remember.....when you point a finger at someone.....3 are pointing back at you.....it is all projection. What I try to project is love and respect towards everyone.....because I know that everyone is divine....worthy and deserving.
I doubt anyone would send me a $5400 amp to mod.....but I am open to it. Everything can be improved.
By the way, the Mytek Gan amps are still delayed....they have a 200 watt a channel $6K amp that may come out soon......so more things to try. It never ends.
I hope Ralph can crank out these babies soon so a lot of people can get great sound for not a fortune. Blessings to all. Peace on Earth and especially in your heart. Love is what we all came here for. You create it anytime you like....you are in control.
I have been watching for this, half hoping that Ralph would conclude his class D effort couldn't play in the same league with hist tube OTLs, and half hoping that he was able to pull this off, thus giving us Atma-Sphere fans a wider selection of compatible speakers.
I don't know how many times I've sworn I would never move on from my M-60's. Now, maybe, I should be thinking about this.
Please go away...your next post will let us all know that you have already modded an unreleased amp from Ralph. Everything is better...peace on Mars
The GaN stuff is pretty good. I have a Class D Audio for a secondary system and it comes pretty close my Purifi’s (Mivera). Built many DIY Hypex over the years (UcD, nCore).
BTW - Congrats Ralph. May need to try one (or two)....
The Kinki Studio amps are $3500 a pair and sound really good, twice as heavy, twice as powerful, way more parts and great build. Srajen, at 6 moons, uses these as his reference.....2 meg bandwidth.
Maybe when Ralph retires he can make a deal with Kinki or someone and have them cranked out in China....then more of us could enjoy this quality of sound. $5400 is nothing for some but for most audiophiles....still a lot of money. I’ve never bought anything that expensive.
In the meantime you have modded Purifi based amps, and stock or modded GaN amps from Orchard, LSA and Peachtree that are really great.....all way cheaper.
If these amps are better than much more expensive amps....then this is really good. However, a more powerful version has to be in the wings.....100 watts is just not enough for some speaker systems. I would go at least 300/600/1000 watts......of course, even more money ($10K?)......but, again, if they beat the big boys than great.
Finally something reasonably priced from Atma-Sphere... 😂
$5400/pr SRP = $598/pr USD Something I can finally afford... Yippee!!
I am sure double the wattage will mean triple the price tag... in future products...😊 since it just made his tube amps obsolete... Looking forward to those discounted products!!
Congrats Ralph !! I am sure it will put everything else to shame... again.
Congrats Ralph. This has been a long time simmering and now people can hear what you've wrought. The thought of your expertise devoted to making Class D sound great should have people beating a path to your door. I hope you're prepared for it. 😀
Long time Class D fan here. My Ohms in particular love them. Looking forward to hearing more. Would love to compare to my current Class Ds. Been dragging my feet a bit with new amps waiting for more CLASS d GaN amps to come out.
I’m confused… is the implication from the comments above that Ralph’s new GanFet class d could be easily mistaken as a tube amp with a great bottom end?
Look forward to reading more about how people are responding to this.
So cool that a company that is known for its OTL tech is producing something using completely different tech and from the comments, excelling at it!!!
Looks like Ralph knows what he’s doing :)
Always happy to read about someone producing excellent gear. Especially someone who shares their very real knowledge so openly with us. And does so with such grace.
Hope it becomes a successful part of your product lineup and that it brings joy to those who are fortunate enough to be in possession of them!
If you're making it Ralph, I will believe that it must be great. I feel a bit sad asking, but will you, like Bel Canto now discontinue or gradually phase out your tube based models?
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