Chinese fake cables How fake, how good?


I have noted a number of warnings about cheap Chinese fake cables on this site but curiosity led me to the Aliexpress site where I found a number of presumably fake big name cables from predominantly Cardas, Nordost and Siltech at about 15% of the USA or Australian price. I found Cardas Clear Light interconnects at about US$100 and decided what the heck let's give them a try at that price. Before buying I asked the seller the daft question as to whether they were genuine and got the reply that they were an OEM and constructed the interconnects from genuine Cardas cables and connectors. They arrived in a plastic bag rather than the Cardas box , not a great start but the cables looked real, and when connected, much to my surprise, they sounded really good. After 100hours or so burn in they sounded great and better than the Nordost Quatre Fils I had been using. I then took them to an Australian hi end dealer who sold real Cardas and asked rather ingenuously whether my cables were the real deal. The dealer would not commit but agreed to compare them to the real thing on a set up costing at a guess around A$100,00. Neither I nor the sales person could tell any difference so he then tried them against the Cardas Clear. Then there was some difference, not extreme but subtle, and certainly IMO not worth the price difference even if you bought the genuine Cardas Clear Light. So are these cables really fake and even if they are given my experience they are well worth a try. Maybe I'll try Nordost Odin or Siltech 770i next.
128x128mazian

Since my post in July 31 2023 I have been i search of a Odin Gold coax to compare to my Odin 2 coax cable. Finally located a Odin Gold coax + the Yangsane Silver looked too good to pass up, so yesterday I ordered one of each total <$100 delivered. TBC

I had posted earlier that "I bought some of the Xangsane P-6008Ag power cords.  Burned them in for days before listening to.  Sounded terrible."

However, as I had some other PC's to burn in, I burned the Xangsane P-6008Ag another week (about 264 hours total).  At that point, they sounded great. 

So, if you are going to by Xangsane stuff, plan on burning in ~300 hours.  I read something similar on their USB cables.

Tweak 1...

Agree on the "ODIN" GOLD....Excellent value for the $$....IC ( both XLR & RCA), and the PC's....haven't tried their speaker wire .....as always YMMV.....

CHEERS... 

@roxy54 

Your right and agree, was just thinking of some noobie jumping in at the end of the thread without context.  

I know its old news by now, but it’s a pet peeve.  I think the adjective fake or counterfeit should be included in their naming convention whenever discussing these cables.

Calling the above cables by the name of the product they have counterfeited (Nordost) is like calling a kit car with a VW bug engine, imitating the real thing, a Shelby Cobra Roadster.

I bought Odin 2 ICs, coax cable, and speaker cables. The speaker cables were a bit too bright in my system, so I tried Odin 2 Gold which I really like. I also have the Odin Gold power cords. Unbelievable bargains

Post removed 

Within 30 seconds I could hear they sounded terrible. They did not improve after being run overnight. The next day, I couldn't stand to listen to them any more. Experiment over.

nosualc

How many hours did you use this PC, to determine it sounded terrible?

Perhaps with a few more hours on it might yield a different perspective.

Cheers.....

On a lark (a hundred bucks to satisfy my own curiousity), I bought a few Xangsane power cables. "Silver Plated", massive, very well constructed. These aren't clones or gray market over stocks. Just cables made and marketed by a Chinese company. Their advertising was replete with all the cool buzzwords about materials used, etc. 

Upon receipt, they sounded absolutely terrible. Not subtle. Worse than any OEM PC I own. So bad, that I took one completely apart. Nothing surprising. While I cannot confirm the materials used were as advertised, it was still seemingly very well built.

It did confirm to me that PCs matter (If a PC can make something sound better, then conversely, a PC can make it sound worse).

This is not to say they were a rip-off, or to generalize about Chinese products being bad. But I would say are but they aren't necessarily the low cost, low risk path to audio nirvana. 

Now I know.

I have bought a Xangsane power cable, and I confirm it is a high quality product.

I highly recommend the Xangsane brand, available on their own website or from aliexpress. No clones, just very well engineered and constructed cables that sound very good and are very sanely priced.

I bought a power cable on Amazon and it sounded better than the stock. I also bought a "Krell" power cable and it's great. I took the ends off and the shielding is properly grounded on all of them to the ground pin/plug. The copper strands are thick and actual copper, no aluminum copper cladding. Great care was taken to assemble the cables as well. The Chinese made cables are very good and aren't overpriced by any means. Definitely a happy customer here with Luxman equipment. 

Thank you to those who offer a logical and even handed take along with impressions. Especially those with actual experience to contribute and not those espousing various opinions of questionable relevance that no one asked for.

I was curious about some Nordost Odin speaker cables and I usually buy good value for money quality Neotech based OCC cables local in Australia from boutique audio makers but for my needs (extra long speaker cables) there are few affordable quality alternatives.

I know someone who had a good experience with their (Odin) RCA interconnects so I was curious if this applied to the speaker cables.

It is between this and another (Aliexpress) no-name hybrid OCC silver/copper (not SPC) for a very similar price. The "Odin" seller even offered to make the cable slightly longer than ordered in case my measurements were short.

Service was responsive and helpful. Now to see if the product is worth its salt. I would never even consider any expensive cables so basically the only thing this "Odin" cable is competing with is the local value and budget options.

This is for my bedroom system so I will see how they are. I actually have authentic Analysis Oval 12 on every speaker of my pretty high end 5.1 HT system (Wisdom Audio L75) and I am now a bit curious as to whether this will give them a run for their money.

Astelmaszek, you have no idea what you're talking about, first of all ofc is not single crystal wire and it doesn't come in eight nines, I think you should go and check your facts and do your research a little bit better. LOL

as greater volumes of manufacture get shifted to China the boundaries become ever more indistinct..

If you buy on Aliexpress you can be sure they are clones but it doesn't mean they sound bad, as many have indicated. If you are buying on ebay from a local seller you can't be sure even when the asking price is 10x that of the Chinese product . Buying from dealers, probably the safest option but can you still be sure? 

How would one tell if they're counterfeits ?

Is the only way to buy cables is to buy them brand new and through a reputable dealer?

China gets it’s copper from the same place we do in the US. Chile. The largest copper mines in the world are in South America and 59% of the copper used in the US is from Chile. 
 

I used to be an engineer at Cooper industries (Belden wire and Champion Industrial Spark Plugs). Left after Federal Mogul bought us. 
 

So the quality of the core materials used in the US and China are the same. Not the case in finished goods, a few good mfrs in PRC though. 

mitch2, that is the point. The price and quality of the cable is actually better than GRs I have a few. The OCC silver clad with teflon coating and a 16 strand tight inner weave is really really good cable. I put silver clad over red copper fork spades for terminal ends. The same ends for the OCC silver clad teflon ribbon. 
65-125.00. 2-5 meter pairs of cables already made up.. I swap end too, it take me 20 minutes to swap to any terminal I use and shrink tube it up..

There is a silver twist RCA I use that is just stunning it's a silicone polyvinyl, VERY close to teflon.. 50.00 for 2 meters. 39.00 for a 1 meter and silver over red copper locking RCAs

I have a cooker, so they get a good conditioning for a couple of weeks..

I'm not sure exactly what the discussion is about???  Are we talking about Chinese wire copying wire made in the USA from copper / silver / trace metals mined in the USA, or are you talking about using Chinese produced wire purchased by a USA company terminated by connectors made in the USA and sold as a name brand or are these copies of name brand cables completely sourced from China and marketed as something elite?  

Or finally is this a discussion of false advertising claiming a product is a brand name when it's just a clone of a brand name which means it may or maynot perform as expected?  

 

 

 

This DIY bulk speaker cable (8 awg @ $13.75/foot) available from GR Research (construction instructions here) appears remarkably similar to this bulk speaker cable ($4.05/foot) available from China, which is supposed to be similar to Kimber 12TC ($35.50/foot @ Partsconnexion). 

Kimber 12TC is OFHC wire in Teflon, while the GR Research is apparently OFHC in polyethylene, and the Chinese version is advertised as OCC in Teflon.  In any case, the Chinese cable provides a lot of copper for $4/foot in a weave that appears identical to 12TC, so if I were just starting out to build a system I would have no hesitation giving the Ali Express version of this cable a try, leaving me more money to spend on electronics and speakers.

I purchased a cheap Chinese made PC on Amazon, just to try it and see for myself . Thick with red/black weaving for that “audiophile” look with a plug stamped “hospital grade”. Was $30 at the time. Looking closely at the plug through the semi transparent plug, you could see half or more of the wire was frayed and sticking out from the terminal screw not making contact.  Pure junk that might end up being a safety hazard..  even at $30, it’s a huge ripoff. 

My $10 interconnects sound like Telefunkens—open, clear, transparent, neutral and fast. I’ve compared them to ICs up to $500 and the win every time.

It’s not black and white. Many US audio electronics, speakers, etc. contain parts made in China. Resistors, capacitors, batteries, cables for instruments(like this) etc. or they are entirely assembled in China, or elsewhere. Those products are, nevertheless, designated as Made in the USA. This is not to say China isn’t capable of making some products, including some audio products, that are very high quality.

Totally agree with that. And, as a rule, quality depends on a budget. 

This is not a best case for saving money

As long as this old thread has been brought back from the dead, I might as well pitch in my feelings.

I have no problems buying Chinese cable "clones", because I am not taking any money out of the pockets of the real companies. As much as I spend on audio, I am not about to spend high dollars for cables*.

So, if I buy Chinese cable clones, I do not do it in lieu of buying the original cable, but as a standalone purchase. I am not weighing the 2 options; spend thousands on this Nordost cable, or spend under $100 for this clone, because I would never do the the former in the first place. And I doubt, anyone with the kind of money who would be able to buy the original Nordost (or whatever other high end cable), is going to be buying the Chinese clone.

The first Chinese clone I bought was about 4 years ago. My cousin, who belongs to an audiophile club in Phoenix, told me about them after his club did listening tests of a flat cable Nordost clone. I bought a pair of .5 meter cables for about $50 to go between my phono stage and preamp. It’s built very good, uses non ferrous RCA connectors.

Does it sound as good as the real thing? I have no idea. But it is as good as the more budget level audiophile cables (Blue Jeans, Morrow, and their ilk), for still quite a bit less those.

I also bought a Chinese clone of a MBL 6010 preamp as a "stop gap" a year ago, after my preamp blew up. I doubt it sounds as good as the real thing, but it sounds better than my old Luxman (a highly thought of vintage unit), for sure, and it holds its own against my friend’s Parasound JC2.

*I am not a ’cable denier’ (I hate that term)

 

Wow do I come into this discussion late! Two years! 

First, let me say I am one of the poor sots that can hear cable differences. It's a curse. For you that don't, you are blessed. You will never be tempted to pay the ourtageous prices for cables the rest of us are. Second, I, like most of you, have a beer bottle pocket and champaign taste.  That said, I am in the process of upgrading/tweeking my old sound system. At the core is a 90's era Conrad Johnson preamp and amp. I have loved my old Cardas Quadlinks that I have owned for 30 years. They were my reference cable. The truth is, however, the highs now sound veiled. They are lacking the detail and sound staging (like air) that new cables and tastes seem to be. I tried 4 different levels of Cardas cables and without a doubt chose the Clear interconnects. I paid $2800. NUTS. Me and the price! Before I bought those, I returned a set of Parsecs because for that sound, they weren't worth $400. I bought "Cardas Clear Light's" off the Aliexpress for $45 for curiosity. The appearence and visible build quality was shockingly accurate. The highs sounded very similar to the Parsecs, but seemd to have a better bass. I couldn't do A/B testing, but really! They bumped out the old and very real Quadlinks.  I am willing to pay the high price (gulp) when the product warrents it, as the legit Clears really did. But, in defense of the Chinese manufacturing, they can make decent quality products. Not all of it is junk. I think they should just put their own name on the things (like SKW for example). The clones could say: "compare sound signature to (insert brand)" .  A lot more of us would be open to trying them and they could be compared to the real thng in the open market. AND it might drive the authentic cable prices down. 

Hey gochurchgo,
Just curious what the brand name (& model name/number if applicable) of the $40 Chinese cables are, that were purchased on ebay & you're happy with.

Please advise

Thanks
xenophobiafear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign
 
Great example of insulting those of us with different views while posing as morally superior. Xenophobia is prejudice against the people of other countries. Some of us are able to distinguish between the Chinese people and the political ideology ruling over them. It helps to understand the meanings of words, and use them accordingly.
@boxer12 they came direct from China. I don't suffer from Xenophobia so I like to try things out. Small investment for some good sounding cables.QC leaves some to be desired but then I have experienced that with American made things (gasp).
These cables could have been made on the moon by Peruvian nuns and it wouldn't change my opinion.
@scroydon, or cables make such an infinitesimal difference that it’s a hat toss.
shrinkage aka product going out the back door..in America ? no way, impossible
LOL Jim. I have had a lot of experience with Lucas. None of it good.

Now back to fake Chinese cables...
I bought 3 pairs of oil dampened cables. Two pairs leaked. I fixed them it was easy. They were pulled to tight. They work ok, sound is better than a stocker.

A lot of the other cable are really good. Just no HUGE mark up. There is ZERO in the way copy rights. If you can get a copy right for using cable armor, terminal ends a 30 ton press, screws, or soldered. There is no secret sauce. Contact enhancer and shrink tube with your name printed on it.. R&D. You got to be kidding.. A DMM and a couple of cable conditioners..

Total cost for set up 2K with 15 foot bench clamps if you really want to get techy..

Good lord what people pay for, then defend their purchase as if money makes it sound better..

There are NO 5K cables, only if someone pays for it.. Just like 20k amps.. only if some one pays for it..

Now you know how I feel about 10k, 15k and 20k cables..

1-200.00 usd.. Will net you some really good cables.. 500.00 for a cable NO WAY...

Some Turntables I can see the machine work time. But actual cost.. 1000% mark up from the actual CNC machined parts cost.. The machines don't forget, Remember!!!

The old lathe and milling machines didn't. The cost of doing business dropped, but the price is 100 time higher? LABOR cost... NO, greed cost. 20k amps, DACs, and preamps LOL I don't think so...

20-50k speakers? If you say so.. If you got the money why not.
ME it's just WHY, not why not.. LOL

I've owned one new car in my life.. :-) I don't even want a new WIFE.. To hard to break in... NOT BURN-IN!!!

Regards
Not sure how they do it.....these were one of Furutech's better IC cables and are priced at less than $6/M (if you buy 10M)!  They are branded "Furutech" and although these are apparently a discontinued model and hard to find for sale, they are still listed on the Furutech website and the construction appears to be exactly the same as what is still posted on the Furutech website.  The XSSH 10m price OF $6 is about 25% of the original Furutech list price.  Did XSSH purchase remaining stock?
Tim if they were British they might work with 12 V + ground… Lucas, Prince of Darkness
Weeping just a tiny bit. But I’m running these for all interconnects including the phono cable and they sound nice. Clear and extended.

just placed an order for AE Prestige Interconnects so these will be leaving the system. Might sell them, not sure.
Okay, that explains it. Thanks

gochurchgo,
Since they are leaking oil, they may be British, not Chinese. (sorry) 
Oil dampened cables.  That may not be the correct technical term. I've seen them on eBay. 
I’ve been using some $40 eBay cables and they were better than the AQ Evergreen, Cerious, and Morrow MA3 I had been using. Better extension on top and bottom.
But you do get what you pay for and they are weeping oil. Looking at AE to replace them and am hopeful they will give me more.
scroydon14 posts01-18-2021 3:06pmThe origin of manufacturing is irrelevant to the discussion.

If a knockoff sound as good as genuine it may be genuine but pushed out the back door by employees trying to pad a paycheck. Theft of property rights is often the norm in China and genuine R&D gets robbed of cashflow that furthers more R&D.

This is a well known issue with manufacturing in China. I don't really have any sympathy for them if they choose this option, apparently they believe that those costs are cheaper then manufacturing in the US.