For audiophile, I should say CD players are the best in terms of audio sound quality. Even though I used my portable speaker most of the time, I still love listening my playlist CD collections from my CD player. So I think CD player is not dead and will not. I used my portable speaker most of the time because it is more convenient. I can pair with my phone and play it, and I can stream latest tracks directly from it too because it has Wi-Fi. Regarding sound comparison, I'd say CD is perfect. My portable bluetooth speaker also just sounds great even while streaming music over Wi-Fi. The sound clarity is almost negligible.
Everything is relative. Comparing CD to cassettes, for instance, I find cassettes more dynamic, more entertaining/musical, more full bodied and more raw. I will listen to CDs on occasion, however.
Exactly phd, why does there always have to be a "winner" in these discussions? Vinyl, CD, streaming...all fit very nicely into the same system. Having the options to chose from multiple sources need not be a contest to determine which is "best" but rather an opportunity to enjoy the choices we have. But, I have been in this hobby long enough to remember that there have always been choices. Reel to reel tape vs LPs, Cassettes vs LPs, CDs vs LPs, streaming vs CDs vs LPs. It's all fun. I just recently started using a Bluesound Node2 and ripped almost 1000 CDs to an NAS drive. Wow! The Bluesound has transformed the way I listen to music. I also stream TIDAL and this adds yet another dimension to my music library. This little device (Node 2) has made an enormous impact on the way I listen to music. Do I plan to get rid of my CDs? No, but I must say that my new Bryston BCD-3 and my Sony ES5400 SACD players haven't seen much use lately. I am amazed by the sound quality of the Node 2 playing both music from my FLAC collection and TIDAL selections. I recently did a fairly comprehensive upgrade of my entire system; new Vandersteen Quatro CT speakers, new Dynavector XX2 phono cartridge and Bryston BCD-3 and as good as these components are I would have to say the $500 Node 2 is the biggest game changer. Maybe as the newness wears off I will get back to using my CD players and turntable more but right now I am totally smitten with the Bluesound product.
As long as people have albums they will own a turntable and the same applies to CDs. Why not include an audio server and do all three?, I think it would be a lot of fun. I still use a FM tuner on a daily basis for news and background music and that's fun too.
"Treasure" is a great word. I treasure not only my LP collection, but I consider many of the individual LPs themselves to be a distinct, special treasure all by themselves.
Many
of us have invested a tidy sum on silver discs (CD, XRCD, SACD etc.) I
suspect that in the high end of things spinners will be around for a
long time. Maybe only one or two models per manufacturer ...
This makes a lot of sense. Even in this era of streaming and downloads, the LP and FM still endure.
... but as much
as I covet my vinyl collection (listening to Japan pressing of Dire
Straits right now) I have many, many discs that I listen to regularly.
I'm not sure how you can covet something you already own.
Many of us have invested a tidy sum on silver discs (CD, XRCD, SACD etc.) I suspect that in the high end of things spinners will be around for a long time. Maybe only one or two models per manufacturer, but as much as I covet my vinyl collection (listening to Japan pressing of Dire Straits right now) I have many, many discs that I listen to regularly. Maybe a silver disc renaissance down the road akin to the current resurrection of vinyl?
Setup #1: I have a PS Audio DirectStream transport and DirectStream DAC, and with an SACD in the drawer, I2S cable connecting the two, the technical sound quality is as good as it gets (native DSD exported from the transport to the DAC). I also tend to listen to CDs using this pair, when I'm listening to a whole album.
Setup #2: But I also have Roon & Tidal on a powerful Windows10 Pro machine, with a large external hard drive, for streaming or listening to this track and that track, and not an entire album.
I'd say that Setup #1 has the potential for superior sound quality, as the I2S interface isolates the timing from the music, ultimately capable of better performance in the DAC. Also, even with the great selection offered by Tidal, lots of classical music is just not available for streaming, but is on CD & SACD.
I'd say that Setup #2 has the potential for superior sound quality, as Tidal can stream newer "remasters" which might sound better than the CD or SACD that one purchased previously. And HD Tracks has a selection of hi-res digital files, which can be downloaded and integrated into one's player software, part of your Roon library.
So, in short, I have both and am glad to have them.
don jr As a dealer I listened to Bricasti M1 Dac. It didn't take a lot of time to convinced me to become a dealer. With no transport I was burning cd's onto my dedicated Mac Book. Then using JRiver as the software and using my computer for playback. At my age software is not my forte and JRiver is above my pay grade. Not being happy with that set up I became an easy mark for the Melco N1 music library, server. Now I team that up with the Buffalo CD burner. I started by burning a few CD's onto my Melco and then while I listened to music I burn more CD's at a rate of about one CD every 5 minutes. All the software is in the Melco, very simple to use. I purchased an iPod mini to act as the remote. I use the free Music Life software on that IPod. The Melco N1 costs 2k and the matching Buffalo burner ( get one on line at Office Depot ) $169. No a big investment and you can begin to leave those CD's in the shelf.
I'm still a huge fan of CD's and CD players. I've been buying CD's for 30 years, they're cheap, a lot of them sound great and remasters continue to come out. The players also keep getting better. I like to listen to a handful of discs on a Friday night and listen to each one from beginning to end. The thought of ripping them all makes me dizzy. What I could get into is a server that allows me to rip, store and play but then what do I do when it's time for a new one. I'm sure one of you could easily answer these questions for me.
"And one day (we'll all probably be dead by then) I predict an entirely new, as yet unimagined way of reproducing music will emerge, rendering our present digital universe obsolete."
If Sony's recent opening of a record production plant in Germany is any indication I'd say vinyl might render our present digital universe obsolete.
Whatever technology ends up being dominant in the coming years, there still has to be some sort of recording industry to support it and provide content. That's the part I worry about, since the major record companies have been such enthusiastic participants in their own demise. What we seem to have at the moment is a patchwork of world-class musicians scrambling to find distribution for their excellent recordings. Many have begun issuing their own, which may well be the wave of the future and has the advantage of providing a much better financial return to the artists themselves, but has the disadvantage of the absence of marketing and support. As a performing musician, I know that a physical CD is a very handy thing to have in hand to sell at concerts. Also, I was involved in the CD industry at the retail end from the mid 90s until just a couple of years ago. I'm still on board with CDs and I think there's still a future for the CD player. One day they'll probably go the way of typewriters, yes, but that's some way off. And one day (we'll all probably be dead by then) I predict an entirely new, as yet unimagined way of reproducing music will emerge, rendering our present digital universe obsolete.
The best sounding results for me is dB Poweramp to FLAC. Then served through JRiver on my HTPC to an external DAC. It sounds better than anything online. It also sounds better than the original CD served from my OPPO 103. Where can you download lossless files at Redbook bit rates for less than you can buy the CDs? Everwhere I look they are more expensive which totally blows my mind.
I predict compact discs and players will continue a gradual decline in usage but will never disappear. I do wonder if labels will stop creating discs in another decade or two.
Server/DAC audio quality will only improve; I believe a server as transport can exceed optical media but that will eternally be a source of debate,
Vinyl usage and turntable sales will gradually increase. There's so much passion in the vinyl resurgence - I see it as unstoppable at this point.
Jafreeman That loudness war compilation of good and bad dynamic range does not square with many of the CDs I feel sound very good in my system. Don’t let it throw you off something you want--have to listen to it.
I agree, sort of. For example, Dylan’s Modern Times sounds very good - clear, musical and the playing is great. But it’s dynamic range is quite compressed according to the official dynamic range database. It’s a subtle thing sometimes, but when you hear a CD that has very good dynamic range, you know it. It hits you in the face. And there are other aspects of sound to admire: frequency response, transparency, air, etc. so dynamic range might not necessarily be a deal breaker.
That loudness war compilation of good and bad dynamic range does not square with many of the CDs I feel sound very good in my system. Don't let it throw you off something you want--have to listen to it.
In this days you have pure CD transports that can be connected to an external DAC with amazing results now you don't have to be depend on the internal dac built in the CDP (usually not great ones ) and you can choose any dac you want based on your personal taste ,I bought mine cambrdige Audio CD transport a year ago connected it to my Macintosh pre/dac with astonishing results ,I don't have any desire to move on to a streamer.
It does not matter if it's CD, streamer, blu-ray, sacd, tape, or vinyl, same rule applies to all: garbage in garbage out. It's all in the mastering. Most sound engineers now mix recordings so that they sound loud at low volumes. The reason why hi-res files sound better, or there's a return to vinyl, it's in part because the original recordings are remastered more carefully to sound good with a higher dynamic range rather than mix everything to the limits within 2 or 3db dynamic range. Just take recordings downsampled in mp3 and their remastered version for mp3... world of difference..... Anyway, as long as we don't burn cds, players will be around...
Just want to put my 2cts in. A year ago i sold my cd player, a Linn Unidisk SC. I had the chance to go all digital. I am familiar with DBpoweramp and tag&rename. Works like a charm. But i bought a new CDP instead. Got a great deal, and was sad to let my cd collection go on the 2nd hand market.
In the same year I had Roon for a month to try out. It is great in every way, as we all know. Software interface and music exploration is the bomb. BUT.... i mis the feeling of listening with concentration. With Roon i skip/swipe/search as a madman (and listen). With a cd i’m more in the music. And listen front to back with patience. Also the (bargain)hunt for a new cd is for me thrilling. I compare the whole cd experience with reading a news paper on Saturday morning. Or reading a good book. You can do it digital, but the real deal gives you something extra.
I hope i can get a Roon server up and running this year. Because in 2017 you can have your cake and eat it, and that’s the beauty ;) Also i'm gonna save for a high end cdp 2 maybe 3 yrs. I can wait.
tostadosunidos geoffkait, do you mean that new music on CD is more compressed than before or that new releases of old music (say, 60’s, 70’s, 80’s) is more compressed than previous CD releases?
Here’s the deal. The industry began overly compressing (reduced dynamic range) CDs about 20 years ago for whatever reason. All CDs are a little compressed, everything is relative. But as time went on more and more CDs were being overly compressed, especially remastered CDs, as well as new issues of CD such as Stones and Dylan and Radiohead and many others. Also new releases of LPs are often but not always overly compressed, as well as some but not all SACDs and Blu Ray and hi res downloads. You can look into these statement at the Official Dynamic Range Database which now has something like 100,000 entries. Check it out!
@kalali Great question. I find with some older artists like my favorite, Van Morrison, that my ripped collection is deeper than Tidal. This will vary by artist as you know. Right now I spend about 60% of my time listening to Tidal streams vs. my ripped collection. This does vary however.
Roon shows my ripped and Tidal CDs by artist on one screen. I have duplicate copies of many CDs .... my rips and Tidal streams.
I found that Tidal has changed the way I listen to music. I used to listen to the same rotation of CDs for many years with few new additions. Now I am listening to new artists all the time! I am listening to so much more new music and loving the experience! Eric Bibb is one example of an artist I now listen to regularly that I was not aware of before Tidal. Great blues artist. Many, many others. I search out new stuff every week and it is so easy and convenient. All for $19 month. Yes, I love Tidal.
geoffkait, do you mean that new music on CD is more compressed than before or that new releases of old music (say, 60's, 70's, 80's) is more compressed than previous CD releases?
There is no escape. CDs are very compressed, now more than ever. Now vinyl is very compressed. You can’t play vinyl on iPods! Hel-loo! What are they thinking?! And even SACD and Blu Ray. Gasp! AND hi res downloads! Double gasp!
ok so cd goes away ... where do you gt your music? HDtracks or some other site that will sell you a copy of a piece of music you had on cd for more money because its digital . so you have to get/buy a digital player (Jriver or ammarra) are they better ? and on it goes -- what goes round comes round. you think of how many formats you've had... records that you recorded because of limited play quality onto tape then comes cd and you buy a lot of the music again now digital copies how many times have you bought Led Zeppelin or the Beatles or the who?
grannyring, just out of curiosity, how often do you look for a specific content that you can't find in the Tidal library and need to access your ripped CD collection to find it?
You rip your collection so it sounds better and is much easier to find and play! Your ripped collection plus streams are both managed through Roon/Tidal for the best sound quality and user interface possible. You have liner notes, lyrics, reviews, album art, photos, play lists, similar artists, artists influenced by the artist you love, tons of new music and artists you were never aware of and now love, and on and on. This whole experience is very tangible and quite frankly makes handing those flimsy cd jackets, once you finally find the one you want, so very boring and crude. Absolutely no comparison in experience of our hobby from the perspective of this computer challenged, yet now enlightened aphile.
but you’ve got to feed your server with something!
Hmmm, until I "digested" your statement above, it never dawned on me that CD/DVD drives are also becoming less of a standard item on computers.
My Mac only has an external CD/DVD drive, as do many other computers these days.
I’m not sure that it’s akin to the Turntable, but as long as there are CD’s - and there are zillions out there - we will need some kind of "transport"!
Good Point - long live "the transport" :-)
Perhaps the only device that has gone the way of the DODO in recent times is the Laserdisc player.
Granted, there are a few still out there, but I do not see anything that can remotely act as a transport in place of an old worn out player :-(
I believe that, except at entry level, the "stand-alone" CD player as a line component's days are numbered. Break it into its essential parts, however, the transport and the DAC, and you have squared your flexibility and upgradeability. I say this as a vinyl junkie - look at the recent strides in turntables, tone-arms and carts, each of which can be upgraded without replacing the entire unit. Thus being, methinks, the future of the CD, unless someone comes up with a better medium. Streamers and rippers are certainly the way of the future, but you've got to feed your server with something!
+1 fdottore I agree also. "and in any case there is an undeniable charm in owning a tangible data medium. " We want to be charmed, isn't that is what our music is partially for I like it that way. Thanks
I just purchased a T+A top of the line CD/SACD player (PDP 3000HV). Read what T+A has to say about why they're still making disc players.
"
It is only natural that the SACD and CD continue to lose significance,
as they are increasingly superseded by streamed content; a trend
reflected very clearly in the huge success of our multi-source players
with their extensive streaming facilities. However, it is clear that our
audiophile customers still wish to be able to play music from CD and
SACD, because none of us wants to throw away our old collection, and in
any case there is an undeniable charm in owning a tangible data medium.
"
@williewonka ’s observation-- that CD is following the path of vinyl- rings true in some ways, but it hasn’t had its resurgence yet. I’ve been a ’vinyl only’ guy forever, and am only now starting to look at CD as a serious medium. Why? Access to more music. Aside from newer material that is natively digital, some material was never released on vinyl or the original LPs are now 3 or 4 figures. The DAC market is flourishing but the CD transport market is not, except for a small handful of high end players and a few inexpensive ones. (I’m not including integrated players like the Oppo that some folks use as a transport). The computer-based audio systems are a little daunting to me-- I am on a steep learning curve right now and will likely start with a Redbook transport and DAC. Partly because I get a little fidgety with computer issues generally, and want to keep it as simple as possible. FWiW, and not to be provocative, the turntable/phono stage market is very robust right now at the higher end of the spectrum- it isn’t just millennials feeding that market, given the prices, but I believe this is unsustainable. It is a golden age for vinyl gear but I’m not sure that the market for high end CD playback will enjoy the same renaissance. There will always be a fringe/outlier market for "obsolete" technologies in audio, but it is a tiny portion of the market compared to the larger "mass market." PS: I can’t comment on the sonic merits of CD v. Streaming. Convenience, not sonics, tends to be the market driver for mainstream equipment, though I’ve been told that hi-rez downloads can be amazing. I guess I’ll have to discover that for myself.
Having heard SUPER H-E> 5 to 8K+ Streamers at the CES shows& at several of my friends homes. Doing just what the question is all about. Example: "Look of Love" Diana Krall on TIDAL Stream vs Marantz S-10 and her SACD. Play back thru Double QUADS stacked (2) per side. Tidal close.The Piano keys lack some attack speed. Voice a little Warmth Back-up Bass fiddle.Quads revealed stronger string vibrations
Like in HORSE SHOES Close doesn't count. But's that's a different game
Great discussion! I'm a vinyl and CD type and very late adopter, so have elected to hold off on streaming altogether. Have just upgraded from my Sony 9000ES to the PS Audio Directstream DAC and Memory Player - both nicely discounted - and simply cannot believe the improvement. Age 69, this does it for me.
I could never dream to skip my CD collection, just because i can stream.
Just like vinyl - it's personal preference.
I never had a really good
CD/DVD-SACD
player and once I started down the streaming path it proved to be far better, so I converted my entire library (still doing it actually)
My streaming device provide superior sound and is far more convenient to use.
I've even experimented converting a vinyl pressing to 16/44 streamed digital, but to maintain that vinyl flavour I only recorded two tracks - Side A and Side B - so you can't skip to an individual track, you have to listen to the entire "side" - you even hear the pops and crackles - amazing :-)
But I sill like my real vinyl for really serious listening :-)
i am a huge vinyl lover for 45 years and went on the CD wagon as well, because like jazztherapist writes, i wanted the music. I could never dream to skip my CD collection, just because i can stream. Looking on the shelve for a good disk, inspires me and all the music i keep, gives me a lot of precious time. I too will go streaming if the new music is going there but i will not throu away my LP CD or SACD collection, thats part of me and shall continue to be that. Ripping may look easier and i may be soundig oldfachion but its like digital pictures compated to real ones, its funnier to look into an photoalbum than a screen. I do however hope that younger people will get the same nice music expiriences with streaming, that my generation did with the vinyl. Cd isent dead by not for the massmarked anymore, i beleave. Funny because soundwise i feel it just got ripen. regards
I got rid of a 2000 CD collection a few years ago in favor of building vinyl and hi-res digital. I own 0 CDs now and my 13-year-old, seldom used Arcam 73 is dying, and I’m *still* wondering about getting a replacement transport. Reason being that I’ve realized, as a fan of small label indie jazz from the ’80s and onward, that there are loads and loads of albums that will likely never exist on any other format. They’re not available on a hi-res digital format, were never pressed on vinyl, and there’s no reason to expect they ever will. Their single-pressing, single-format existence at all was a labor of love. So I’m not sure what to do with that. Anyone else in that boat?
With well over 6,000 CD's in my collection, owning a top notch player is essential. I've been perusing the marketplace quite a lot over the last 10 years and have witnessed with increasing frustration, the audio industry's growing marginalization of this piece of gear. Not only is the rapidly diminishing number of audiophile quality machines of concern, but also the diminishing quality of the design of some of these, my Audiolab 8300CD for example, (reflecting the increasing lack of commitment by some companies to this end of the market).
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