Cardas Clear Reflection advice needed

@txp1 - Over the last few years I’ve purchased quite a few cardas interconnects and power cables. The Clear Reflection is a great cable - smooth and very easy to listen to. If funds allow, I’d recommend looking at the Cardas Clear IC. 

@txp1 If you already tried Golden Reference, what I can share is Clear Reflection is its own cable and presentation among the lineup comparing new to older designs.  Having tried many in the Cardas lineup past 30 years, and then strayed away some for 3 years to try others, like @jl1ny mentioned, I missed elements of what I liked most and returned back to all Cardas now.  I run both Cardas Clear digital and Cardas Clear Reflection at all sources and between preamplifier and amplifiers. The only way to know is to try them for 60-90 days, then you'll know for sure either way. I'm glad to be off the cable hamster wheel, Best of Luck.   

 

 

Not a Cardas fan  

I’m still loving the Clear Reflection XLR’s. I’ve since up graded my speaker cables from Cardas Neutral Reference to Virtual Dynamics Master Series.

Truth be told, I took a crack at going full loom with Virtual Dynamics. I test drove the Master series XLR’s and I found it to be a bit too revealing for my taste. Put the Cardas back in and the silkiness of the Clear Reflection was immediately evident. I’m done with the cable craze…that was one hell of a rabbit hole to go down.

@decooney @mikey8811 @jl1ny @sdl4  Resurrecting a 2 yr old thread because it’s exactly on topic for my situation.  Any one have additional thoughts on the Cardas Clear Reflection RCA interconnects?  Especially between DAC and Pre?  I’m considering replacing my long-time use of Cardas Golden Reference between my DAC and integrated amp. Also, did anyone use a cable burn-in device to try to reduce the very long burn-in Cardas cables seem to require?

Additional information: the room is not optimized (LR), DAC is Chord Qutest/M-Scaler combo into a Cary SLI-80 HS with all the upgrades. Listen almost exclusively to jazz.  Thanks!

Thx @mikey8811 as I will be re-trying to figure out if there is some sensitivity to placement in the system chain, such as pre-to-amps. I like the CRFs at the source, and when paired with a more clear cable downstream so far. When doubling-up with a full loom of CRFs is what I'm not convinced of yet since my 2nd pair is brand new.  And then there is this, if you believe in this - http://www.cardas.com/insights_break_in.php

@decooney No, I didn't add another Clear Beyond. If I find another at a good price I may but I like things as they are now.

As mentioned in my post dated 24 May 2022, I did try the Clear Reflection between pre and power and the Clear Beyond between DAC and pre and found the sound too veiled. I didn't bother trying them this way again.

@mikey8811 decooney, I am still using the same. Clear Reflection between DAC and pre and Clear Beyond between pre and power.

I am tempted to try another Clear Beyond in the place of the Clear Reflection but it costs a lot more.

If you don't mind me looping back on this topic months later, did you end up trying a pair of Clear Beyond ICs in place of your downstream pair of Clear Reflections?

I moved my second Clear Ref ICs to my preamp to mono amps, giving it a try. The result was a little too veiled over running a full loom stacking two pairs, and relayed this to a contact at Cardas. I acknowledge not having more than 80hrs on them. Cardas informed me more time and letting them relax in place uncoiled may be needed.  I'm still wondering about your prior post where you were guided to use Clear Beyond between your pre-to-amps instead. Wondering if that worked out or not. Or if the Clear Refs are are working out better now instead.  

Break-In? Burn-in? Relaxing the cables? Releasing dialectric tension - Say What?

Just swapped out 3-week old Clear Reflection interconnects with 200+hrs on them for a 2nd brand new pair with (0) hours time on them.  Put the new pair in the exact same source/input spot to prove something in reverse about break-in on these too.    

Reverse Test:  

• Hour-1 Results: back to grainy, closed in, compressed sound stage, not smooth, less tone, less timbre, not enjoyable to listen to new.
• Hour-24: still grainy, a mild opening of the sound stage, a little more tone, a little more detail, weight coming through. Piano not as bad.
• New is not as engaging or "natural" sounding as the prior 3-week pair with 200hrs on them. Hands down there is a difference.   

Same result as former coiled-up Cardas in a bag or box, and a few other brands tested.  There can be a real benefit of giving Clear Reflections a few weeks of time to uncoil, relax, settle in place before things begin to sound "right".  Give it 3+weeks before making a premature judgement. Things do change, give it time, fwiw.   

 

 

@williampowell yes, and own Clear Ref now for interconnects. For me It had to do more with matching up my particular input/output tube selection and coupling caps I run in my DAC, preamp, and amplifiers though. Re-cabling again came last. I was a former old diehard user for a decade+ of Golden Cross years ago, so it was more of a succession kind of thing to end up with Clear Refs. Either Cygnus or Clear Ref would have worked nicely though. I still use different Cardas Cross bi-wire cables for my main speakers primarily, so no valid or helpful comparisons to share there for you though. In your case maybe Cygnus would work nicely.

Thanks for thoughtful response . Have you compared Clear Cygnus to Clear Reflection?

@williampowell yes, your Parsec and Iridium are going to be a bit laid back/warmer/grainier sounding in comparison to Cygnus. They are different cable designs too. You can send an email to Cardas and Josh or Brian will explain differences with Cardas 1 or 2 copper and the 2-wire vs. 4-wire conductor layouts too. I’ve owned both and they are different, having tested both 2 and 4 wire designs and versions.

Is your Classic 120 amp the standard version with EL34 output tubes or the SE version with KT120 output tubes in it? If you are running the EL34s, missing some of the upper detail now, and had to choose, i’d likely suggest Cygnus over Parsec to pick up some of that upper register you are looking for as one option. If you choose to keep your EL34s, maybe call CJ (first) and ask if there are other coupling caps you can run in your Classic 120 to pick up some more detail, another option. Before any of these, you might ask them about trying other 6922 tubes to get closer, and its a less expensive option to try. This may not give you the Cygnus 3D affect and total upper register detail (and air) you are looking for though. Finding the right match of tubes / interconnects / speaker cables makes a difference to fine tune it a little more to your taste. Best of Luck.

I’ve been delighted with new Magnepan 1.7i with DWM bass panel. Initial boomy upper bass/lower midrange snapped into immensely better balance with 1.4 mHz inductors supplied by Magnepan. Preamp in this system is CJ Premier 17 series 2, amp is Classic 120. Interconnects are Cardas Clear Cygnus.
At this point I’m hearing a bit less definition in upper registers than I’d prefer. Present speaker cables are a mix of Cardas Parsec and Iridium. Reviews of Cardas Clear Cygnus speaker cable suggest they will reveal more 3-D info and better definition in upper register without being fatiguing while maintaining a bit of the “golden midrange” of the Parsec /Iridium…but I am not in a position where I can try before I buy. Hoping others have had relevant experience I can learn from.

@sdl4 Thanks.  I disconnected my custom stereo subs this week for amp updates, and just running the main speakers standalone with no bottom end reinforcement. Not too bad, there is added lower midrange resolution that some of my former ICs did not reveal as well. Prior list includes 7 different pairs from Cardas, others from AudioQuest, Apature, Analysis Plus, Belden and a few other well regarded ICs. I do  mostly low-level listening and landing on a nice synergy is rewarding.  All preference and we may hear differently on what "sounds good" of course.  Thanks!  

@decooney  I'm glad you've found a cable mix that has synergy in your room and for your ears. 

@decooney I’ll be interested in your impressions of the Clear Reflection ICs this time around.

I started to reply with an update, and re-read your statements above. You already described it to a tee. I’m pleasantly perplexed how clarity and detail can still come through while midrange weight, tone, texture is all there at the same time. These are keepers. I’m using them only for my sources. On the back-end for preamp to amplifiers I’m still using my Analysis Plus Crystal interconnects. Its a really nice balance intermixing the two to complete the loom. Much less than Clear or Clear Beyond, and the synergy between the two different sets I’m using works well.

Ordered a second pair of Clear Reflection ICs for my other source. Very nice. :)

I use all Clear Cygnus in my system, and they sound great. I have used other Cardas cables in the past and I always liked the brand. I haven't tried Clear, Clear Beyond or Clear Reflection. As always they have to match your system.

Update-2. At 100+ hours on the interconnects testing my source to preamp. Man, several things just sound correct again. It’s opening up now, tone+, bass+, Glow is there. Already sounding nice. You know it’s right when you can’t stop listening. Happened last three listening sessions.  

@sdl4 thanks, and her comments would resonate with a few friends who think room setup first, before anything else. Where in my case, the room and speakers are fixed and not changing. I fall into the same situation as Angela, and some times overly clear or lean cables may not be the best option in my room and for my system.  A point of reference, my other sets of OCC/Ohno crystal lcopper already give me plenty of neutral, clear sound. Clear Ref seems to fit the sweet spot for some.  Thanks for pointing out where in the video she covers this...  

@decooney  There's an interesting Youtube interview with Angela Cardas from 2018 on John Darko's site:  

 

In the last couple minutes of the video, Angela tells about her experience with temporarily replacing the Clear Reflection cables in her home system with the top-of-the-line Clear Beyond cables - and begging to get the CR cables back into her system asap. She still likes the Clear Beyonds in the right room with the right equipment, but for her preferences and her home set-up, she prefers the CR for listening to music.

@sdl4 @jl1ny Thanks for the updates you guys. Translates to my reality as well, same with these as all other Cardas I’ve owned past 25+ yrs while these are a little more clear in a nice way yet retaining some of the body and characteristics we mentioned before. @sdl4 what you said was key and resonated with me, i.e. "until I realized that I wasn’t listening to music quite as frequently as I had been". This happened over the years for me too, moving in different direction trying different ICs. Finding the right balance between totally transparent with "do no harm" vs something that’s extra engaging to the point where you want to "keep listening" is always a target goal. Its been fun rediscovering some of the same old familiar trails once again, Thx :)

@decooney  It's been a while since I added Clear Reflection ICs to my system, and I don't recall specifics of the sound during break-in. Cardas cables do have a reputation for requiring fairly long break-in periods. I do remember that the ups and downs with my cables smoothed out after a few weeks. Even near the beginning, I did not have the urge to pull them out of the system since they brought a certain "rightness" to the sound.

@decooney 

I’ve taken a new approach with cables, I install them and let them run at low level for 24hrs before I sit down for my 1st listening (at night when my rig sounds best) and I’ll write down my initial impressions. After that I let them run for another 5 to 7 days before I’ll listen again and compare notes from the 1st listening. Personally, I can’t do a daily assessment with new gear, as I suck at detecting micro nuances. I’ve that found giving the cables a good 160 hours burn in provides a clearer sense of what they bring into the system.

@jl1ny @sdl4 do you recall what your early settling-in period was like with your new Clear Ref interconnects?  

Going through it again now, and hours 1-4 was nothing like hour 12 or again at 24+.  The rollercoaster changes were notable at first, and my source has been on uninterrupted. Will report back later once I have a lot more time on them. Logging it as I go. The cycle both good/bad/good is very similar to most of my former Cardas and Analysis Plus cables over the past few years. So far so good though.   

I have only used RCA interconnects and can clearly hear differences when changing brands and levels within brands.

But a search of this forum will find that according to Atmasphere (Ralph), if your components are fully balanced as are the components he builds, there should be little if any difference in the sound presentation of different XLR cables. You would need to read his explanation for the technical reason why.

It appears that a lot of audio equipment with XLR connections does not meet the definition standard of being fully balanced for whatever reason.

@decooney  I'll be interested in your impressions of the Clear Reflection ICs this time around.

@sdl4 ..."especially the fullness, tonal balance, midrange liquidity, richness, and smoothness I hear with the CR. The CR also images great and isn’t rolled off in the highs, but it also doesn’t over-emphasize high frequency detail at the expense of tonal balance.

I guess I just need to resign myself to admitting that I love Clear Reflection, since I can’t seem to find a cheaper cable that is a better match for my preferences and my system."

 

Well, back for a 2nd try and complete do-over evaluation. I ​​​​received my 1M RCA Clear Reflection interconnects today. They came in a completely different/larger box and packaging this time, drop-shipped direct from Cardas through my authorized dealer. They arrived a little different compared to the first used/return pair of I tried and sent back the first go around over a year ago. Will be taking listening notes starting brand new through settling/relaxing phase and will compare the first 250hrs. I don’t want to make premature judgment this time around yet already noticing some of the same nice characteristics. Gonna run them in a few weeks and see how it goes. A little bit more intrigued this time. We’ll see...

@decooney I have swapped them around before. I preferred the Clear Beyond from pre to power. That was what Cardas advised me to do anyway.

When I tried them the other way, the sound was veiled. I could tell almost straight away that didn't suit me.

@mikey8811 thanks, by chance are your two sets of interconnects close to the same length, where you can swap them and put the Clear Beyond first (DAC>Pre) and the Clear Reflection from (Pre>Amp)?  

Sometimes I do this to get an idea, where the leading cable closest to the source takes on the signature of that leading Cardas cable for a higher majority of the sound characteristic.  It's not a perfect scenario like a full loom of course, but it does  give an idea of the differences between the two cable types. Some like to say put your very best cable up front, first.  There is some merit in that I believe.    

Even if I liked them in your system it may not be a match 

I preferred the Final touch audio xlr interconnects very natural sounding 

and Wire World Eclipse Awg9 gauge Speaker cables  a very natural mstch 

which was $2 k for 1 pr of interconnects ,and $1500 for the speaker cables ,for me it was a lot ,  digital I have Final touch audio Sinope usb cable 

and Ethernet from router a AQ Diamond then Finaltouch audio from uptone audio Ether regen to server ,  the little us be perfect is latest item on the usb output and works well better then AQ jitterbug,or IFIAudio usb3 .best $250 ever spent ,

and I do use the Synergistic purple fuses ,they add a bit more resolution  ,I get all  I can out of my system ,Dynaudio speaker Xovers totally upgrades ,as well as Coda CSIB  output capacitors upgraded withDuelund tinned Copperfoil  capacitors  Big improvements.

@decooney I am still using the same. Clear Reflection between DAC and pre and Clear Beyond between pre and power.

I am tempted to try another Clear Beyond in the place of the Clear Reflection but it costs a lot more.

 

@sdl4 My situation is very similar to yours regarding speaker cables. I would love to go with CR but I need 15ft of cable which would cost close to $5K new? I just couldn’t justify that expense for the level I’m playing at. So I kept my eyes on the sales forums and scored 5m of Cardas Neutral Reference speaker cables. While NR not on par with CR, it sounds substantially better than my existing speaker cables. I’m very satisfied with it.

@audioman58 so I take it you did not demo/try Clear interconnects then?   

While I've heard it before on other's systems, have not gone back to Cardas to try Clear interconnects on my system since I moved on to AP.  Good news, I tune my front end tube DAC and tube preamp with different caps, input/driver tubes if needed. Would never pay that much for Clear. Used sets come up for much less if you like them. Was thinking of going back and re-comparing Clear Reflections to Clear if its worth it. More interested in hearing about your Eclipse 8s though!  :)  

The top of the line Clear s very detailed and open ,it will cost you$3-4k 

as a system interconnects, and speaker cables . A lot too have to do with what your front end is and amplification .

@jl1ny @sdl4 Thanks for your replies. I’m looking to experiment with something about half way between Cardas Clear Reflections and some of the more transparent OCC interconnects I own and use today, AP/Crystal OCC. I formerly owned Clear Reflections for a short time and truly wanted to like them. Still might. May try again since I added brighter and more detailed coupling caps in my DAC and mono tube amps. Can’t justify paying for Clear Beyond. Been hoping Cardas would bring out a slightly revised version of Clear with a tad more weight to it. 

@audioman58 seems like you are finding a new "balance" between OCC and tone/timbre retention within the WW Eclipse 8, if I’m following you correctly. John at TheCableCo is trying to steer me back towards Cardas knowing me, yet they carry WW Eclipse too. Your experience of cycling through these is helpful info too, thanks. Hmmm. Did you ever try Clear?

@decooney  Like @jl1ny, I continue to use Clear Reflection XLRs between DAC and preamp and between preamp and mono block amps. I'm hoping to move the amps closer to the speakers so I can use shorter speaker cables, but that requires much longer interconnects (5 meters instead of 1 meter) between the preamp and amps, and the Clear Reflections are pretty expensive at those lengths.

In my search for long interconnects that don't cost a lot, I've tried several XLRs that sounded very impressive at first, especially in terms of detail and transparency, but ultimately proved to be a bit fatiguing and lacking in the tonal richness I've gotten used to with the Cardas CR. You've mentioned the timbre, tone, and body you've heard with Cardas, and I haven't heard the same fullness, liquidity, and smoothness with the other ICs I've tried.

I first did an extended trial of the Vovox Sonorus, which is a Swiss XLR with a solid reputation in the pro audio community. The Vovox provided impressive liveliness and transparency, which was impressive at first, but it lacked the fullness and smoothness of the Cardas CR in my system. My next extended trial was with the Zavfino Fusion XLR, which provided realistic detail and transparency. The Fusion was good enough that I left it in the system for several weeks, until I realized that I wasn't listening to music quite as frequently as I had been and decided to replace the Fusion with the CR. The immediate effect of adding the Cardas back into the system (between preamp and amps) was an increase in the fullness and body I like to hear in wooden instruments and voice. The Fusion now sounded thin in comparison.

I recently went back and re-read Steve Huff's review of the Clear Reflection cables on his photo gear website. I realized that Huff appreciates the same attributes in the CR that I do, especially the fullness, tonal balance, midrange liquidity, richness, and smoothness I hear with the CR. The CR also images great and isn't rolled off in the highs, but it also doesn't over-emphasize high frequency detail at the expense of tonal balance.

I guess I just need to resign myself to admitting that I love Clear Reflection, since I can't seem to find a cheaper cable that is a better match for my preferences and my system.

 

@jl1ny I do a lot of late nite low volume listening and the slight boost brings my listening to a near perfect setting.

Great point. I do a lot of late low level listing too. People rarely talk about this requirement, and for those who seek this, slightly rolled/veiled over interconnects can be a real challenge, when "turning it up" to hear things better - is not an option.

Agree, some of my older "pre-clear" era Golden series cables were not the best fit for this need. I’ve since moved to other brand OCC cables, yet still looking back at Cardas some. Was thinking of retrying Clear reflections or Clear to try again for another setup. Every once in a while crave some of the former tones and timbre.  

Feedback appreciated by those who’ve tried similar or moved on to others by now.

 

 

 

@decooney I have Clear Reflection going from Dac to Pre and Pre to Amp. they replaced Golden Refs that I had on loan. The GR were luxurious but just a bit too rich for my rig. Clear Reflection has a touch more clarity/definition, yet still velvety just right. upon deciding to stick with the Clear Reflection, I sent them off to Cardas and had them retermed with XLR’s. This is my 1st experience with using a balanced XLR connection, what a pleasant surprise. Added value- DEAD silence and there appears to be a slight boost in gain (?) I do a lot of late nite low volume listening and the slight boost brings my listening to a near perfect setting. lovely!

@audioman58 have you found the Eclipse (OCC) provides the same type of timbre, tone, and body heard with most of the upper end Cardas interconnects?

In my new system the Wireworld Eclipse ,and eclipse platinum on digital xlr 

was a little more even balanced and better resolution .

@arcamguy  @audioman58 @audiodragon777 @mikey8811 @biggy79 

1.5 years later, doing some surveying - are you still running Cardas [Clear, or Clear Reflections, or Clear Cygnus] interconnects?  If not, what did you move to and why?

Myself having a  integrsted amp the Yamaha 2100 which is very good sounding but a bit closer perspective then I would like   I found the clear reflection interconnect gave it a bit warmer inviting perspective.
 speaker cable ,the latest Wireworld Eclipse 8  which is very well engineered and inthe $1500 for a 2 meter pair sonically very balanced.

The Cardas clear reflection is a excellent cable ,in many rooms there can be a bit of peakyness .or brightness the combination of clear and golden reference takes off just a bit of total neutrality and is not that warm, lending a very organic natural 
tone to it. I just have the interconnects ,for the moment using morrow sp6 speaker cables which have a nice balance . There is a great speaker cable Thst is 
ver unique but very good on every levelSilversmith audio latest For $1k a 6 ft pair 
and 30 day money back that's on my short list .

Late to the game here. I would save up and do the Clear. It hasn't failed me yet. I had CR once, at my amp. It was good, but lost some neutrality, with I value. Cygnus is the new sleeper cable, imo. Gorgeous low end, and all that Clear has, without the clinic. Check out Cygnus sometime, esp at the DAC output to preamp. Plus, Cygnus has 4 conductors. CR only has two. imo, better signal preservation with Cygnus (i.e. more transparency). I always go for more conductors, all else being the same.

@mikey8811 I prefer Clear Reflection to Clear, too.
Both aren't perfect, buth Reflection's faults are much more tolerable than Clear's.
Clear is too flat and boring.
Since I have an integrated and use only a couple of interconnects, I replaced the Reflection with Beyond (a totally different animal from Clear), but if I had separates I would have done as you

Hi guys,
Just an update: went with a Cardas Clear balanced interconnect. Quite nice. Enjoying the music.....

@arcamguy No, not that I noticed but I did not compare the Clear and Clear Reflection on an AB basis.

I bought Clear Beyond first and then Clear Reflection because I didn't like Clear in my system.

@mikey8811 thank you for your input; do you lose any resolution or detail with Clear Reflection?

@arcamguy I prefer Clear Reflection to Clear. I am using a combination of Clear Beyond and Clear Reflection.

Clear Reflection is a warmer and more forgiving cable than Clear. I tried Clear in my system and somehow did not like it. It was too "clear" for my taste. Mind you, I have probably used most Cardas cables in the past and did prefer Golden Cross to Golden Reference if that gives you an idea of my leanings. I still think the Golden Cross is my favourite all time interconnect and nothing quite beats its midrange portrayal - not even the Clear Beyond.

However, you like Clear so another Clear could very well work for you. I think Cardas describes Clear Reflection as a cross between Clear and the older Golden Reference - that is quite an apt description. So I guess if you would like more warmth in your system, go with the Clear Reflection but if you would like more of the same, then go with Clear.