Cardas Clear Reflection advice needed

@arcamguy  @audioman58 @audiodragon777 @mikey8811 @biggy79 

1.5 years later, doing some surveying - are you still running Cardas [Clear, or Clear Reflections, or Clear Cygnus] interconnects?  If not, what did you move to and why?

@audioman58 have you found the Eclipse (OCC) provides the same type of timbre, tone, and body heard with most of the upper end Cardas interconnects?

@jl1ny I do a lot of late nite low volume listening and the slight boost brings my listening to a near perfect setting.

Great point. I do a lot of late low level listing too. People rarely talk about this requirement, and for those who seek this, slightly rolled/veiled over interconnects can be a real challenge, when "turning it up" to hear things better - is not an option.

Agree, some of my older "pre-clear" era Golden series cables were not the best fit for this need. I’ve since moved to other brand OCC cables, yet still looking back at Cardas some. Was thinking of retrying Clear reflections or Clear to try again for another setup. Every once in a while crave some of the former tones and timbre.  

Feedback appreciated by those who’ve tried similar or moved on to others by now.

@jl1ny @sdl4 Thanks for your replies. I’m looking to experiment with something about half way between Cardas Clear Reflections and some of the more transparent OCC interconnects I own and use today, AP/Crystal OCC. I formerly owned Clear Reflections for a short time and truly wanted to like them. Still might. May try again since I added brighter and more detailed coupling caps in my DAC and mono tube amps. Can’t justify paying for Clear Beyond. Been hoping Cardas would bring out a slightly revised version of Clear with a tad more weight to it. 

@audioman58 seems like you are finding a new "balance" between OCC and tone/timbre retention within the WW Eclipse 8, if I’m following you correctly. John at TheCableCo is trying to steer me back towards Cardas knowing me, yet they carry WW Eclipse too. Your experience of cycling through these is helpful info too, thanks. Hmmm. Did you ever try Clear?

@audioman58 so I take it you did not demo/try Clear interconnects then?   

While I've heard it before on other's systems, have not gone back to Cardas to try Clear interconnects on my system since I moved on to AP.  Good news, I tune my front end tube DAC and tube preamp with different caps, input/driver tubes if needed. Would never pay that much for Clear. Used sets come up for much less if you like them. Was thinking of going back and re-comparing Clear Reflections to Clear if its worth it. More interested in hearing about your Eclipse 8s though!  :)  

@mikey8811 thanks, by chance are your two sets of interconnects close to the same length, where you can swap them and put the Clear Beyond first (DAC>Pre) and the Clear Reflection from (Pre>Amp)?  

Sometimes I do this to get an idea, where the leading cable closest to the source takes on the signature of that leading Cardas cable for a higher majority of the sound characteristic.  It's not a perfect scenario like a full loom of course, but it does  give an idea of the differences between the two cable types. Some like to say put your very best cable up front, first.  There is some merit in that I believe.    

@sdl4 ..."especially the fullness, tonal balance, midrange liquidity, richness, and smoothness I hear with the CR. The CR also images great and isn’t rolled off in the highs, but it also doesn’t over-emphasize high frequency detail at the expense of tonal balance.

I guess I just need to resign myself to admitting that I love Clear Reflection, since I can’t seem to find a cheaper cable that is a better match for my preferences and my system."

Well, back for a 2nd try and complete do-over evaluation. I ​​​​received my 1M RCA Clear Reflection interconnects today. They came in a completely different/larger box and packaging this time, drop-shipped direct from Cardas through my authorized dealer. They arrived a little different compared to the first used/return pair of I tried and sent back the first go around over a year ago. Will be taking listening notes starting brand new through settling/relaxing phase and will compare the first 250hrs. I don’t want to make premature judgment this time around yet already noticing some of the same nice characteristics. Gonna run them in a few weeks and see how it goes. A little bit more intrigued this time. We’ll see...

@jl1ny @sdl4 do you recall what your early settling-in period was like with your new Clear Ref interconnects?  

Going through it again now, and hours 1-4 was nothing like hour 12 or again at 24+.  The rollercoaster changes were notable at first, and my source has been on uninterrupted. Will report back later once I have a lot more time on them. Logging it as I go. The cycle both good/bad/good is very similar to most of my former Cardas and Analysis Plus cables over the past few years. So far so good though.   

@sdl4 @jl1ny Thanks for the updates you guys. Translates to my reality as well, same with these as all other Cardas I’ve owned past 25+ yrs while these are a little more clear in a nice way yet retaining some of the body and characteristics we mentioned before. @sdl4 what you said was key and resonated with me, i.e. "until I realized that I wasn’t listening to music quite as frequently as I had been". This happened over the years for me too, moving in different direction trying different ICs. Finding the right balance between totally transparent with "do no harm" vs something that’s extra engaging to the point where you want to "keep listening" is always a target goal. Its been fun rediscovering some of the same old familiar trails once again, Thx :)

@sdl4 thanks, and her comments would resonate with a few friends who think room setup first, before anything else. Where in my case, the room and speakers are fixed and not changing. I fall into the same situation as Angela, and some times overly clear or lean cables may not be the best option in my room and for my system.  A point of reference, my other sets of OCC/Ohno crystal lcopper already give me plenty of neutral, clear sound. Clear Ref seems to fit the sweet spot for some.  Thanks for pointing out where in the video she covers this...  

Update-2. At 100+ hours on the interconnects testing my source to preamp. Man, several things just sound correct again. It’s opening up now, tone+, bass+, Glow is there. Already sounding nice. You know it’s right when you can’t stop listening. Happened last three listening sessions.  

@decooney I’ll be interested in your impressions of the Clear Reflection ICs this time around.

I started to reply with an update, and re-read your statements above. You already described it to a tee. I’m pleasantly perplexed how clarity and detail can still come through while midrange weight, tone, texture is all there at the same time. These are keepers. I’m using them only for my sources. On the back-end for preamp to amplifiers I’m still using my Analysis Plus Crystal interconnects. Its a really nice balance intermixing the two to complete the loom. Much less than Clear or Clear Beyond, and the synergy between the two different sets I’m using works well.

Ordered a second pair of Clear Reflection ICs for my other source. Very nice. :)

@sdl4 Thanks.  I disconnected my custom stereo subs this week for amp updates, and just running the main speakers standalone with no bottom end reinforcement. Not too bad, there is added lower midrange resolution that some of my former ICs did not reveal as well. Prior list includes 7 different pairs from Cardas, others from AudioQuest, Apature, Analysis Plus, Belden and a few other well regarded ICs. I do  mostly low-level listening and landing on a nice synergy is rewarding.  All preference and we may hear differently on what "sounds good" of course.  Thanks!  

@williampowell yes, your Parsec and Iridium are going to be a bit laid back/warmer/grainier sounding in comparison to Cygnus. They are different cable designs too. You can send an email to Cardas and Josh or Brian will explain differences with Cardas 1 or 2 copper and the 2-wire vs. 4-wire conductor layouts too. I’ve owned both and they are different, having tested both 2 and 4 wire designs and versions.

Is your Classic 120 amp the standard version with EL34 output tubes or the SE version with KT120 output tubes in it? If you are running the EL34s, missing some of the upper detail now, and had to choose, i’d likely suggest Cygnus over Parsec to pick up some of that upper register you are looking for as one option. If you choose to keep your EL34s, maybe call CJ (first) and ask if there are other coupling caps you can run in your Classic 120 to pick up some more detail, another option. Before any of these, you might ask them about trying other 6922 tubes to get closer, and its a less expensive option to try. This may not give you the Cygnus 3D affect and total upper register detail (and air) you are looking for though. Finding the right match of tubes / interconnects / speaker cables makes a difference to fine tune it a little more to your taste. Best of Luck.

@williampowell yes, and own Clear Ref now for interconnects. For me It had to do more with matching up my particular input/output tube selection and coupling caps I run in my DAC, preamp, and amplifiers though. Re-cabling again came last. I was a former old diehard user for a decade+ of Golden Cross years ago, so it was more of a succession kind of thing to end up with Clear Refs. Either Cygnus or Clear Ref would have worked nicely though. I still use different Cardas Cross bi-wire cables for my main speakers primarily, so no valid or helpful comparisons to share there for you though. In your case maybe Cygnus would work nicely.

Break-In? Burn-in? Relaxing the cables? Releasing dialectric tension - Say What?

Just swapped out 3-week old Clear Reflection interconnects with 200+hrs on them for a 2nd brand new pair with (0) hours time on them.  Put the new pair in the exact same source/input spot to prove something in reverse about break-in on these too.    

Reverse Test:  

• Hour-1 Results: back to grainy, closed in, compressed sound stage, not smooth, less tone, less timbre, not enjoyable to listen to new.
• Hour-24: still grainy, a mild opening of the sound stage, a little more tone, a little more detail, weight coming through. Piano not as bad.
• New is not as engaging or "natural" sounding as the prior 3-week pair with 200hrs on them. Hands down there is a difference.   

Same result as former coiled-up Cardas in a bag or box, and a few other brands tested.  There can be a real benefit of giving Clear Reflections a few weeks of time to uncoil, relax, settle in place before things begin to sound "right".  Give it 3+weeks before making a premature judgement. Things do change, give it time, fwiw.   

@mikey8811 decooney, I am still using the same. Clear Reflection between DAC and pre and Clear Beyond between pre and power.

I am tempted to try another Clear Beyond in the place of the Clear Reflection but it costs a lot more.

If you don't mind me looping back on this topic months later, did you end up trying a pair of Clear Beyond ICs in place of your downstream pair of Clear Reflections?

I moved my second Clear Ref ICs to my preamp to mono amps, giving it a try. The result was a little too veiled over running a full loom stacking two pairs, and relayed this to a contact at Cardas. I acknowledge not having more than 80hrs on them. Cardas informed me more time and letting them relax in place uncoiled may be needed.  I'm still wondering about your prior post where you were guided to use Clear Beyond between your pre-to-amps instead. Wondering if that worked out or not. Or if the Clear Refs are are working out better now instead.  

Thx @mikey8811 as I will be re-trying to figure out if there is some sensitivity to placement in the system chain, such as pre-to-amps. I like the CRFs at the source, and when paired with a more clear cable downstream so far. When doubling-up with a full loom of CRFs is what I'm not convinced of yet since my 2nd pair is brand new.  And then there is this, if you believe in this - http://www.cardas.com/insights_break_in.php