I believe Johnk builds speakers. If he and Salectric feel it's necessary to perform multiple A/B testing to be certain that the differences are legitimate, more power to them. Some situations may require that degree of scrutiny, I get that. In my case of changes/upgrades it'd be a waste of my time. The improvement was simply too apparent and profound. The CAST affect was a stark contrast initially and nearly 2 years later that hasn't changed. To each their own.
Charles, |
Charles, everyone reading this thread knows you replaced a Solen with a Duelund CAST and noticed a big improvement. That's great and I am glad you're happy, but it's hardly surprising. Solens are, to put it politely, not a very high threshold to surpass. Here's an analogy: if someone replaces the Pioneer transistor amp he's been using for the past 20 years with an Audio Research preamp and amp, he will be very pleased with the improvement. That doesn't mean, however, that ARC is the best sounding amp in the world. Without hearing other high-quality amps, he may be quite happy, but if he hears VTL, VAC, Emotive Audio, CJ etc., he will realize that the ARC equipment has flaws and he may prefer another brand instead.
It's the same thing with capacitors. You need to try a lot of different caps and in various applications to gain a full appreciation of each cap's sonic qualities. A few months ago I posted something in this thread asking people to describe any negative qualities they hear in CAST caps. As I recall, Grannyring and I were the only ones who had any complaints. That's not because we have super-human hearing. It's because we have spent a lot of time comparing different caps.
And that is why I say in order to gain a more complete, a more nuanced understanding of what a cap sounds like, you have to compare it to other caps of similar quality. That hardly seems like a controversial statement. |
Johnk,
I would like to add to the present conversation by saying that I have learned a lot from this thread and it is by far the one on Audiogon for which I am the most thankful. I consider this thread and those who contribute to it a tremendous asset.
As a research engineer I understand performing design of experiments to gain an understanding of the contributions and/or interactions among system components, but here I think it comes down to how one defines success. If I were a speaker designer I might be inclined to define success by achieving a cost/performance target. In that case I would follow a process such as you describe to make sure the performance of each part within the system was worth any added product cost.
As a hobbyist, however, I define success simply by the pleasure derived from my system. Like Charles and some others here with their systems, the changes I have made resulted in profound improvements that met my definition of success and I too would consider going back to the original crossover a waste of my time. I simply have no motivation to do that, whereas for you it would to make perfect sense. To me the main thing to remember is that there are many people on this forum with many different priorities and interests.
Best wishes,
John |
Salectric,
Your points are well taken, and your advice always appreciated I might add. Like Charles I too originally changed from Solen capacitors. In one set of speakers the path was Solen -> Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil -> Duelund VSF Copper. In my present speakers the path was Solen -> Clarity MR -> Duelund CAST Copper.
My decision to go to Duelund CAST was based on my experience with those earlier caps, from reading selected posts on this thread from those who expressed similar opinions of those caps, and from their subsequent opinions of the Duelund CAST. My goal was to combine the attributes of the Duelund VSF (tone, richness, harmonic structure, naturalness) with that of the Clarity MR (speed, very low noise floor, spacial retrieval). In my system I achieved those goals to my satisfaction with the Duelund CAST capacitors and am quite happy, and as I mentioned in my previous post, am therefore not inclined experiment further. I'm just enjoying listening to my system.
Thanks again for your reply to my earlier post about the capacitor values for my current crossover project. I was able to determine that the 3.3uF with 0.22uF bypass capacitor was indeed the original configuration. Just to be safe, I'm going to order the new caps in a 3.52uF value. As you mentioned the difference between the 3.3uF and 3.52uF values would likely be inconsequential in the speaker's first order crossover, I'm more comfortable staying with the designer's original values and since the CAST caps are made to order it's just as easy to order a 3.52 as it would be to order a 3.3.
Best wishes,
John |
Salectric
your comment to Charles is reasonable, and similar to what I did in my speakers (replacing Solen caps with far better ones) and the result has been profound. The thing is, as Charles has said, many of us aren't here to research - we just thank god for the ones (like you) who are and follow your lead. The point has been made that, apparently, we are all just "putzing about". Given the results that can be achieved I find that description sublimely ridiculous and inflammatory.
If I were paying more attention to the Johnk's of this world I'd now be buying a new pair of speakers (or two of three) instead of paying very close respect and attention to the efforts of people like you and trying to follow your lead.
Anyway, I've said too much. Thanks again for your efforts.
Tas |
Tas and John(Reynolds853),
You two clearly understand my point and frame of reference. Salectric, I've always found you comments insightful and worthwhile, but here's the difference. You and I have different missions or objectives. I want to achieve the best sound I can with my current components and system overall at a reasonable cost, that's it(just fine tune what I own).You have taken a more rigorous and analytical approach and are much more interested in comparing various parts and components. You are clearly a more intense audiophile then I am and that's perfectly fine.I simply have no interest in the constant comparision of this vs that and patiently notating the sometimes subtle points of each product.
Your Pioneer-ARC analogy is on the mark as regards to Solen vs Duelund CAST.This is why I use terms such as stark contrast and profound improvement. I never have or will I proclaim CAST the "best" capacitor, I have no way to prove that(and what would it mean anyway?). My simple reason for posting on this thread was to make others aware that very significant SQ improvement is available merely by upgrading to these wonderful capacitors. That is my only intention. I don't care that another cap is as good or worry that there's something out there that's even better.It isn't worth the constant comparision process, but for you or Grannyring it is and that's great, I enjoy reading both of you and your findings.I spent a lot of time listening to music and anything that increases the natural/organic character is what I want.The CAST did this in abundance. Could other caps do the same? Sure some others can, but it's there with the CAST now, so no motivation to experiment with another capacitor, I'm happy already.This wouldn't satisfy your quest and you'd be compelled to try other capacitors(I understand that).
I won't lose sleep worrying if the Jupiter Cu foil is better than my CAST. As far as I'm concerned they're both excellent products and either would be a major upgrade for the vast majority compared to most "stock" capacitors.
Sal, you and I have different motives and goals and neither is wrong. This is a passionate hobby and there are many ways to obtain happiness with one's audio system.Sal I'll continue to read and appreciate your contributions.
Best Regards,
Charles, |
Charles,
Thank you for a mature and thoughtful post. I agree with you completely about this being a passionate hobby. As a result, it's all too easy to get caught up in minor differences in viewpoint and lose sight of the bigger issues. Too often we emphasize differences and ignore common traits and interests. You and I (as well as most others here) love our music libraries and anything we can do to increase the enjoyment of our LPs and CDs is appreciated. Duelund capacitors have improved my speakers and yours so we are definitely in the same camp. Furthermore, it was your enthusiasm for Ocellia cables that tipped the scale for me and caused me to order a set, which have also improved the sound of all of my records. So sharing our experiences and our enthusiasm can definitely benefit us all.
What we need here is someone to post that all capacitors sound the same, all amps sound the same, and all cables sound the same. Then we can all join together and beat on the common enemy. Peace. |
Sal,
+1, you summed it up well. I'm glad that the Ocellia cables worked for you as well as they did for me.
Charles, |
Salectric, thanks for the tip on the North Creek inductors. I have had them in the crossover for about 50 hours. They replaced the Solen stock inductors of a very thin gauge. The NC inductors I used were 10 guage and about 3-4 times the size.
I was was little concerned the Q value would change as the NC inductors have far lower DCR values. As low as .04! I knew the sound would change, but was not sure if it would be better or need more tweaking by using resistors. My crossover has no resistors in it.
Well I learned a great deal because of this upgrade. I have never changed inductors before and felt they may not be as important as caps and resistors. I was wrong. Very wrong.
No need to add resistors as the result is stellar.
The NC inductors improved the sound as much as a Duelund cap vs Solen.
I will let these inductors settle in and then upgrade the caps to Jupiter.
$435 upgrade to a $16,000 speaker turned out to be wonderful. Thanks again for the tip! |
Excellent news Grannyring! I am glad the North Creek inductors worked well with your speakers. They certainly do with mine. As I said before, I would not be shocked if the Duelund CAST inductors are even better but you have to draw the line somewhere. For my values, the two pairs of North Creeks ran about $650 total and the CAST inductors would have been $6500(!) at full retail. |
I read with interest the comments and opinions above. I have been using Mundorf S/I/O caps, Deuland resistors, and Goertz 12 ga. inductors in my custom Tannoy HPD's for years now.
While the purchase of Dueland Cast capacitors are beyond my budget, Cast resistors and North Creek incuctors may not be.
It's something to consider, at least, and leads to speculation on my part as to how efficacious such a change might be. There's only one way to find out, I suppose.
I too, appreciate the input and information provided on this thread, and many others, and it has had a direct and positive impact on the quality of my music listening.
Regards,
Dan |
Bill
Maybe the inductor change worked for you and not for me because your speakers have no level matching requirements.
If the inductor gauge of the Solens were both 16 gauge and the North Creeks were both 10 gauge it seems that any DCR difference would be linear and track with the drivers. Man that made my head hurt. Tom |
I'm assuming that to build a better inductor, you'd need to worry about better wire, larger gauge wire and resonance control - does that sound even remotely correct?
I have a speaker manufacturer that has offered to do the job for me with his own "method" but, frankly I have no idea what that means...lol
Bill and Tom - I'm reading your posts about inductors and only some of it makes sense to me (naturally)......
Maybe I need to ask a specific question here - what does one look for in a high quality inductor? I think that could be a good place to start.....
Tas |
Bill,
What were some of the effects the North Creek inductors made in your system? Also, did they permit you to send your original inductors and then match the original values?
In my last crossover I used Goertz 12awg ribbon inductors but am curious about the North Creek inductors and would appreciate your and Sal's thoughts.
Cheers,
John |
Tom, I think your statement is spot on and what happened for me. DCR difference is something that must be dealt with in some instances. Wether it is audible or not, good or bad sound wise, or if a lower DCR necessitates the use of an additional resistor are all real considerations.
John, my inductors were clearly marked with a label stating the value. Call North Creek as I am sure they can determine the value of yours.
If you change the gauge you may very well change the inductor's DCR which can change the sound of your speaker and tonal balance. In my case all went astoundingly well. George of North Creek is very helpful and can help you. |
Bill
Have you direct mechanically coupled the parts as we spoke about? The inductors could be dipped in the Cascade material we discussed and allowed to harden. Tom |
I did not this time around as that would require more investment of money that I don't have right now. Just mounted the crossover on a board outside the speaker. |
Here's a bit of heresy. I actually think Solens sound very good in the lower frequency ranges. I have them in the woofer (<150Hz, 200uF) and low midrange (150-800Hz, 70uF) circuits in my RSIIb speakers, and the sound is excellent. Far, far better than the electrolytics they replaced.
I do find they are not so good at higher frequencies, though. Every time I've used them on a tweeter I haven't liked the results. Harsh is the word that comes to mind. |
Ait,
The stock Coincident Eclipse speaker is "very" good sounding with the Solen capacitor. It's just notable the considerable improvement provided by the Duelund CAST substitution. |
Air I agree you on the Solen inductors for bass, but the North Creek is in another league. Check them out on your next project! |
Sorry Air, I thought you were talking about Solen inductors! I found the North Creek to outclass the Solen inductors by quite a margin.
Yes Solen caps are far better than electrolytic caps for sure in that position. No choice, or little choice in values that large for bass. Clarity now makes some nice TC film caps that cost more than the Solens, but are said to be very, very good. |
Those Solen caps also measure very well on my LCR meter, with a dissipation factor that's borderline unmeasureable. Actually quite a bit lower than the Duelund CAST I've measured. Of course that's not the only important factor for a cap but it is interesting. |
Regarding the 220uf Caps to replace the Solen in my crossover (parallel to the 2x 15" woofers), I decided to buy two 220uf Duelund Cast/Mylar. Just ordered them today. Looking forward to testing them. |
I suppose you found this...http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=3794.
Let us know how it all finishes out. You could use direct mechanical coupling methods for all these flat stack components as they are attached to the mother board. I would not mount these components with any soft materials..you will slow everything down. Tom |
Hello Tom,
Yes, I have read Jeff's excellent blog.
Regarding the mechanical coupling of the Duelund components:
1. Only for the caps or the inductors too?
2. Best solution would be the smallest Audipoints?
4. What are Audiopoints made off? Brass?
5. Would I have to glue the bottom of the Duelunds to audiopoints? What would I use to make them stick to the audiopoints?
6. Would I use Audiopoints .2AP.7D with the tip directly in the wood? or the sound would be better with APCD2 coupling disks?
7. Three Audioponts below each large component?
8. How about the smaller caps/inductors that would not fit three Audipoints below them?
Thanks,
VPN |
VPN, I am not Tom but I have some suggestions. First, while placement is important, I don't think there are any one-size-fits-all generalizations to be made. In my case, with a Duelund CAST crossover cap, I started out with 3 brass cones under its flat surface. This combination added some life and speed which was necessary at first because the cap starts out rather dark and lifeless. As it broke in, I tried other arrangements and for a while liked having just 1 cone close to one edge of the cap leaving the other side of the cap touching the mounting surface at just one point. That worked fine for a while but eventually I went to 3 small cubes of Baltic Birch plywood each one about 3/4" on a side. That gave to my ears the most natural balance. So you need to try different supports but be prepared to reach different conclusions as to what sounds best as the CAST cap breaks in.
For my big North Creek inductors, I used the same 3 cube supports but the mounting arrangement did not make as much difference. |
Salectric, Thanks. My components are probably quite broken in, first several days in the cable cooker and then many hours in the crossover.
I see your point. It would take a while to try all the alternatives given the high number for caps and inductors, but worth trying. |
Vicente look me up and drop me a note at tone acoustics. |
Wow I just read page #48 and have not read page #49!
I step out for a little while and Holy Smokes lots of action!
Just at the part about John K. (sorry if I say something in page #49!)
"If I mod'ed it it must be better". (posted by Johnk)
That is EXACTLY how this thread started! I swapped out one whole network (one speaker) and left the other original.
I (like most) was quite happy with my handy work and I brought my wife down for a listen as an unbiased opinion. She was totally impressed! She thought the difference was huge from the two networks and said "you must really be thrilled to get such an improvement"? (not having done any of this before)
The problem was she was picking the vintage foil in oil network NOT the new poly caps!...
I knew at that moment things were not going to be clear money was going to be spent and sometimes wasted and this was going to have to be wrote off as interesting experiment.
I knew I was going to have to listen lots.
Some did not like the mod one speaker listen for a long time if good do the mod to the other carry on method but as JohnK mentioned you can not test from memory.
In time (and after some failures) I got better at what would work and gained some understanding. As one's understanding grows so does the frustration with most new gear... (but I do know why high end parts are not used)
This thread is about people's opinions for the most part with nothing sell.
I have said (and is deserved) a lot of good about Duelund parts. Oddly enough though I am one who has had a Duelund CAST cap leak and in reality Duelund is the ONLY capacitor I have had fail.
Now Duelund will give a refund which leaves me with one CAST at the value... (not a common value)
I am using the store credit for some Jupiter caps, quite likely. I have to just see if they fit. My pace of alterations has slowed in recent years. Am I upset? No! I am not even looking at new gear which is a good thing! (very happy)
Johnk has been on this thread for a long time and has made some valid points but I believe he is a horn speaker builder.
I have said on here many times I would not want to build speakers with Duelund parts and try and make money!
Do the parts matter? YES! Would I want to use them build speakers to make money? NO! |
Interesting to read page #49.
Much talk about inductors. Oddly enough the part most will "draw the line" on and to be honest so would have I...
I have tried the vintage wax paper, North Creek and Duelund VSF. The North Creek was of a lower DCR and to me that is/was dangerous in changing tonal balance. With inductors my opinion is they MUST have a way of dealing with resonance.
Inductors make a BIG difference but do not get the hype of caps and resistors. I am not sure why? (even my vintage speakers used wax to deal with resonance)
The shocking thing was the Duelund gave a big high freq noise reduction in the woofer. I just did not expect that... (I was thinking more bass which it did but less noise?)
Maybe the biggest upside surprise to me was the money I spent on the inductors and have wondered many times if I should have got CAST...
That being said inductors are one off parts that are expensive. Mine are $559 each at current prices. The CAST ones are $1118 each all plus tax here... I paid a fair bit less...
As is being said on here I would not want to put $2k+ in inductors for parts for speakers to sell!!!
I think Jupiter could get into this making a high quality wax paper inductor. It would blow away anything else out there... (save CAST maybe) |
Took apart the amp today to check on room for the small value Jupiter caps.
What I seen was my other Duelund CAST cap is leaking the other one to the pair. It is a fairly new leak just started. (I could not hear it still sounds great) Not thrilled about second Duelund cap leaking bad batch? No other Duelund caps leaking...
Jupiters will go in early next week if in stock. |
The low DCR value of the North Creek was a very good thing in my speaker. Did not change the tone at all for the worse. Not sure the tone changed at all. Just a better sounding speaker now. I can put a .33 ohm resistor in series with the NC inductor to ground to match the higher DCR of the old Solen inductors. I tried that and quite frankly heard very little difference. In the end no resistor was needed.
George at North Creek was confident his lower DCR inductor would improve the sound and walked me through the reasoning. Based on my experience lower DCR is a good thing.
I suppose in some situations it may change the tone etc... a tad. It did not in my crossover and speaker. Just cleaner, faster, better micro detail, backer background, and more musical. |
|
Jupiter caps are here and there is a MASSIVE size difference from the CAST. Not saying the Jupiter will not sound good but is much closer in size to the vintage than the CAST. In fact Jupiter is much smaller than the Jensen Copper Paper tube caps.
The small size might come in handy as CAST are not easy to put everywhere. In my amp I know there is spots where there just is not room for a CAST cap. |
Jupiters installed in the phono stage. (small values)
Reduction in record surface noise and more bass as compared to the vintage caps they replaced.
They are much easier to work with in this case and might have been the only option due to size compared to Jensen or Duelund.
More to follow and soon direct comparison to a Jensen Copper Foil Paper tube coming. (can not yet compare to CAST due to them coming out because of leaks) |
The Jupiters seem to break in pretty quickly compared to other premium caps I have tried. You should hear 90-95% of their capability after 50-60 hours. 100 hours and they are pretty much "cooked" properly. |
You will love them for sure. My go to cap now for electronics. Wish they would get the speaker value caps out. Taking a long, long time.... |
has anyone tried jupiter caps as parallel ac filter caps yet? |
I see Jimmy has a some Jupiter's in for a test but has not posted the results.
Any speculation???
He also has Duelund CAST Silvers. So he will not be an easy guy to impress.
He too was shocked by just how small they are.
For me I had some areas that would require major work to fit in something like the CAST or even Jensen. So these are great!
So far though I do like the Jupiter's as replacements for the vintage. Much better bass much lower noise...
I am going to try and get some more hours in on them as I leave for a couple of days but am looking at ordering 4 more of the small value caps.
My thoughts before they went in they might be slow and damped in sound? I have some experience in wax paper (inductors) great for resonance reduction but not so slippery fast like silk. |
Jupiters are anything but slow and damped in sound. In my experience they set the new standard for natural and neutral sound.
No worries about slow and damped. What Jupiter has achieved is certainly something needed in our hobby. Affordable SOTA capacitors that give nothing up to those caps costing several hundred to over one thousand dollars each. Those who have used them in tube amps and preamps have told me the same. They are very good! |
I have used the Jupiter HT in a few builds very natural ,and as balanced as the rest of the circuit ,your sourse will dictate how fast or slow the Xover sounds. Jupiter square caps, or HT are their best, evrn niw have a a Copper cap that is very rich and detailed.,inductor use a good one like Jantzen Copper foil the best per dollar out there, Path audio resistors1%
Is superior to even the Duelund cast resistors but take well over 200 hours to fully settle in. Neotech -0 Chrystal wiring is excellent
I use solid core for the inside of speakers use all quality your ears will thank you?the Xover is the heart or the brain
Capacitors great tweeter mix Obbliggato Gold great value
Next up and close to big money caps 20% Mundorf Silver oil capacitor
And Clarity ESA capacitor for other 80% save $100 per cap and 95 % as good. |
Audioman58,
Interesting and informative, but please slow down a bit. With the typos etc. it is very difficult to read. Thanks. |
Back from being away for a week.
I have been reading Jimmy has not completed his review too busy and Tony Gee has had these caps for months?
I have put in two and will have a bunch more this week coming.
I can say they are similar to the CAST in revealing wear in the vinyl. They are low noise and I was thinking I was going to have to do major mods on a vintage amp to put small value caps in but these Jupiter's fit the bill size wise! Now are they better than CAST? That is a serious listening test.
I am also looking at caps for my office system to replace vintage caps and would give up a little quality over CAST to save some money. So that could mean more sales for Jupiter.
I also might replace my other leaky CAST with some Duelund RS?
Duelund does not make CAST at lower prices for my size of cap. Quite frankly CAST might just be too expensive for the difference?
The Duelund RS is more in the price range of the Jupiter's. More but not crazy more if one was to like them better.
Looks like some interesting comparisons coming up!
Initial impressions of the Jupiter's is very good.
When I take out the CAST the first test will be Jupiter vs. Jensen Copper Paper Tube.
I have to say this thread has worked out even for me much better than I ever thought. Quickly from opinions here I could buy a cap (Jupiter in this case) and kind of know what I was getting. (when this thread started it was a lot of trial and error and often at a good deal of money)
I do not believe this was possible before the internet. Publications who might do this would be tied to advertising.
Off to watch a movie on the stereo and have to admit just awesome watching a movie with this kind of sound quality in two channel. |
New Duelund CAST caps installed in my speakers today. These are for the woofer shunt caps in a 2d order crossover. Even stone cold, they trounce the Mundorf Supreme caps that were previously my favorite for that spot. The excellent midrange detail, tight yet powerful bass, and excellent dynamics all far exceed my expectations, and this is with only 5 hours! |
Salectric
Good to hear. I was looking at your system again and your DIY amps look very well built. Nice work!
So it seems caps or resistors to shunt in a crossover are in fact important!
I know this to be true from experience. Interesting how the builders for the two last speakers I have owned said parts in these positions to not make a difference. They said Zobel network and/or parts to shunt ground are not important. I am curious why they say this, but actual experience in those same designs proves otherwise.
Those with crossover parts in these positions please do not overlook them for an upgrade as they do in fact make a difference.
Is your crossover internal or external? Love to see a picture. I found removing the crossover from all the turbulence in the cabinet yields more sonic improvement which makes sense.
I removed the crossover from my Lahave speaker and rebuilt them with upgraded parts outboard. I also damped the outboard box and placed it on stand. You helped me source those wonderful North Creek inductors and I also used Duelund and Jupiter caps as well as Jupiter solid core copper wire .... 14 gauge. I also rewired the speaker from drivers to outboard crossover with the same Jupiter solid core copper and cotton wire.
The results are stunning and well worth the effort.
I bet your speakers sound fantastic as well as your system. Really like viewing your system page. I will post mine again soon. |
Volley, you will give up nothing compared to the Duelund CAST caps used in electronics vs. Jupiter copper caps. At least the ones sold at Parts Connextion. I and many others, all others I know who have done it, prefer the new Jupiter caps in their electronics. Thus far we have used them in DAC's and tube preamps & power amps. |
Grannyring, I completely agree with you about the importance of the shunt components. In my case, I have 2 shunt parts in the crossover itself---a shunt coil on the high frequency driver and a shunt cap on the woofer. Each of these is critical sonically. Different types of caps and coils, even with the same value, can sound very different.
In my design, I also have a Zobel network on the HF driver consisting of a small coil in series with a 5R resistor, in parallel with the driver itself. Each of these parts is also important sonically. I cannot imagine why anyone would say they aren't important.
My crossover is on an outboard panel on the floor behind each speaker. I made several changes to the crossovers when I moved them outside the speakers so I can't say what sonic changes were due to the outboard location alone. But regardless of sonics it is certainly easier to change parts when everything is external and easily accessible.
I will take some photos of the crossovers and post them shortly. |
Grannyring
I guess I just have to hear this! (CAST vs. Jupiter)
Not saying you are wrong and can not wait to hear what Jimmy and Tony think as well...
If as good or close to as good I intend to buy quite a few... (tight spots) |
Grannyring
I have actually been listening to the regular Beeswax caps from Jupiter (compared to vintage) they sent the wrong ones.
Can you tell me what to expect for the difference? Have you heard both?
The Copper ones should be in by Wednesday is my guess.
I could not get over how small they were compared to CAST. (which may come in handy)
For sure lower resonance than vintage.
I thought they were pretty good but saying CAST good was a head scratching stretch... |
The only Jupiter caps I have ever used were the flat stacked HT and the new copper foil. These are the top end of their line. Both are very good, but the new copper foil are more neutral and resolving revealing far more micro details. The new copper caps manage to deliver SOTA resolution without ever sounding hard, forced, bright or thin. Even handed top to bottom. Smooth as silk and lots of air. They seem to have it all. At least compared to everything else currently available. |
