Tom
I did not want to wall it off, but could? No HVAC a steel beam that will be covered running 11' from the end of the long wall. Should the sound not go against a covered beam? I will do that and send you pics here this week on when room is cleaned out. No posts to interfere. Small windows and only 2. Kitchen and living room above. So being able to listen and not disturb is a for sure bonus.
How much does room come into play in sound? According to this book a lot? I have heard a drone off uninsulated current duct work at times. |
Was this thread supposed to be about capacitors? |
A room is a form of a storage capacitor..Jburidan your right. I will keep it off this page. Tom |
Sorry Jbuidan.
I will keep it to PM's. Just excited to put all this together in the room. |
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A funny thing with the V-Cap CuFT , is that is sound even better after i have it in all my electronics. My Danish tube builder friend , can not get the same sound stage when he only has capped his like mine 6c33 mono's.
The synergy effect comes when you have modded through you whole line of amps. In my setup i now only have 4 sets of caps.
DAC -> preAMP (1) -> PowerAMP (1) -> speakers(2)
I have to add 2 sets when using my record player through the RIAA.
SO my best guess would be keep the caps SMALL in uF and the signal path very short , which can open up the sound stage to another unbelievable level.
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Michael
I have read before that small value caps sound better in electronics. What are your values? Mine are the standard vintage .022 and .047. Most modern amps are larger values? Are your Tannoy's 2 way?
There is no doubt VCap Cuft are better than almost any cap out there and would improve any signal path. There some serious competition for them right down the road in your home land.
They are for sure very Neutral and very quiet. Super Natural? Not sure on that? You don't hear that? |
Wonder is anyone has compared the new Duelund Alexander caps to the new Vcap Cuft caps? |
Another question is what is going on with the CAST caps? Total new look.
Duelund any comments? |
Volleyguy,
It's just for the 630vs, to make them more easy to implement into electronics. If clients desire the old design, we still offer this on an order to order basis. Also special values, will typically be the old design. |
Duelund
Sound is the same? |
I know I should not take a turn on this capacitor thread but for 2 years I have given my honest opinion with no commercial involvement in this topic and now the room is ready to be done. I could use some help and only have one shot at some of this.
In reading Jim Smith's book Get Better Sound he is very much on the same page. He is a former high end Audio Store owner and installer.
His priorities are tone, rhythm and dynamics. He says sound stage is largely created by audio gear.
He says flooring should be on a wood floor and claims no pre-amp or amp can make such a difference. I can put down a sub floor on wood? Anyone any feeling on this?
Sorry if this is off topic but really is on topic. If a proper floor is more effective at tone than spending another $5 k on caps then it should be considered first for anyone going down this road.
This is one shot for me. Once walls and floors are done that's it. I can always change a cap.
The question I have is |
Hi Volleyguy , mine is 0.022 uF in my Power AMPS and 0.1 uF in my PreAmp. Yes my Tanny is 2 ways HPD-385A.
I paid roughly 300 USD for my VCAP's CuFT , which is less than the Duelunds. But funny enought people don't complain when they hear the improvement in sound. |
Room acoustics are at or over 50% of the sound results your system produces. Carpet is okay, but REAL hardwood is better, much better than any other material. Don't use Pergo or that other type of simulated wood floor stuff that is mostly plastic it is the worst sounding I have experienced by doing it once in my listening area before dumping a house years ago.
Once heard on real wood(of course much more expensive, but then again you could probably do a room for 2500 and a Duelund cap costs that much!) you would likely think your hearing a whole new system.
And yes room acoustics have far higher effect on your sound than any one component or trying to balance out via capacitors. I know I pushed this way earlier in the thread originally to posters, but a room is the last to be thought of unfortunately in this game, and really is the first that should be done.
I would take a 30,000.00$ treated room with a pair of 1000.00$ speakers in almost any scenario opposed to a 30,000.00$ speaker and a 1000.00$ room because it can be that a big a difference in most cases! Besides I have heard 1000.00 speakers with good designed crossovers easily compete with nose bleed cost speakers anyway :-) |
Strange, my previous hardwood floor rooms have never sounded as good as my current carpet over concrete basement room. Lots of "other" noises from vibrations of the wood floors into the walls etc... make for a mess of sound at higher volume levels. My experience is polar opposite on this matter it seems.
I suppose wood over concrete would be wonderful, but that is not a wise idea in basement rooms! Wood floors are usually on first or second level rooms and they are just plain noisy in my experience. Many factors here that are home dependent. I canÂ’t see saying wood is always the best.
Duelund Alexander caps for $380 total have been the single biggest improvement I have ever made in my sound system. Far greater impact then the various room tweaks I do employ. Greater then cable changes and amp upgrades.
Just my experience. |
Volleyguy,
Sound is the same, internal construction is the same. |
I found recently that carpet pile and weave make a very big difference as does foam or jute under layment. Just like a capacitor. Tom |
Grannyring
Well let me point out, "Floating floors" opossed to on concrete may be exactly as you describe. I have only heard wood on concrete vs. carpet probably a necessary point I did not make.
Also, keep in mind if you go with real wood floors not veneer, you will still absolutely need carpeting in the room! For reflections etc...
So I agree with many points. I may have simplified a little.
You need at least a good solid sized area rug on top of your wood floor out in front of the speakers to add the body to the room, and eliminate a lot of the reflections coming off the floor for sure. Plus most wood floor rooms has some large puffy couches etc... To help sound balance.
Many times in very high end designed dedicated rooms you may even see the wood under the front of the room where most people have the components and of course more importantley the speakers and then the rest of the room carpet(cheaper and effective, but not very resale friendly I am sure). |
That makes sense to me and thanks for the follow up! |
Thanks Guys
I was thinking wood sub floor carpeted on the concrete.
My speakers can be bright or aggressive so assume a non bright room would be best.
What Undertow has stated was the premise of the book that the room is totally overlooked. I would think some of the dealers who are on here, Duelund etc. would have a room preference?
Grannyring glad to hear that on the Duelund Alexanders. I am sure another fine Duelund product.
I can really see the logic of hardwood under the speakers and carpet elsewhere. I know the idea of wood in the basement is not good but this would be on a sub floor.
I am even looking at which kind of insulation to put around the ductwork. One article recommended Roxul and not fiberglass for sound reasons. |
One thing that is funny in the book is it sounds like Steen's playbook.
You need real wood floors or sub floors and diffusers should be wool or cotton. All Natural products. |
In this book he recommends the system not be between the speakers but off to the side. He is clearly not using Duelund Silver wire! |
I moved my system to the sidewall years ago, HUGE difference... Open up the soundstage, kill a lot of direct vibration, and honestly looks and operates much more ergonomically.
The downside, longer cables, but if you go XLR from preamp to amp in the middle of the speakers, or even better now in my opinion after years of experimenting and just changing over a friends system to this configuration, believe it or not good 20 ft, or 25 ft speaker cables of at least 12 gauge to 9 gauge really sound no different from when I had 2ft of the same cable from mono blocks with the system in the middle of the system.
The offset of having the components )especially analog gear and table) on the side is worth the long speaker cables for sure if you have a room you can pull it off in. |
My experience is that with the Sistrum Sp4 rack between my speakers it actually improved the overall sound of my system. Images are clearly more defined and stable as if now anchored to the floor or into open airy space. The rack is totally adjustable and has no wooden or plastic parts to store or to trap energy. This rack makes no claim for isolation but does for acoustic coupling. My feeling is that because it is reactive by design airborne energy is attracted to its chassis. The result is a stable precise and huge sound stage. Reactive devices to attract energy when well placed in a room make for a more musical and natural listening experience..I am a dealer..Tom |
Why don't you guys get a room? Instead of polluting this capacitor log? |
Considering Volleyguy started the thread, I don't see a big deal if he goes a little off topic. Besides, there's already 33 pages of cap info here. If you need more info, just ask. |
A room acts as a capacitor. How it may sound is dependent upon the choice or combination of reactive and resistive materials. Throw in your choice of geometry,alter the air pressure adjust the dynamic tension and listen to the signal flow. That's all folks. Tom |
Same applies to the rack or chassis of any other audio component. By..some more. Tom |
Tortured logic. But you guys think you own this thread. |
My auditory receptors communicated to my brain most recently that when I installed a pair of .68 Clarity Cap MR's directly across the 12 volt input of my hybrid Altmann multi dac that I was hearing more air molecules in my listening room. In fact this simple addition made more difference than the 130,000 mfd. storage bank coming off the battery on its way to the dac. This bank of caps are bypassed by film and foils. The MR's at their point of entry made for a stunning improvement for a somewhat minimal cost. Very easy to implement. Tom |
Hi Jburidan , I can confirm the quality of the Clarity MR. For 3 weeks ago i removed my Mundorf s/g/o 1.5 uF from my Tannoy HPD-385a. The difference was huge. They are very very neutral and for me close to perfectly balanced.
On the Eva Cassidy - Fields of Gold on her album Songbird , The Mundorf was tilting the treble so i nearly went into a state of insanity.
I have V-CAPS CuFT in my pre-amps and mono 6c33 amps. Now i am so happy and even if this thread sometimes is a little off topic , It for sure "saved" my HIFI life. We are quite some people here in Denmark who have choosen the V-Caps and Clarity and i can said for sure all the persons i know would thanks volleyguy a lot for starting this thread for almost 4 years ago.
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Wow Micheal you are right almost 4 years ago.
This thread has helped me a lot as well. I can for sure say I do not lust over any Audio gear, which saves me money!
I have one stock vintage amp except for the power supply which is Jensen Electrolytic and it sounds terrible! (just hooked back up)
I would really like to hear a paper in oil power supply and have hoped someone else on here would try it? I was quite shocked to hear the difference in power supply. |
Hi Volleyguy , My good friend who builds and sell tube amps are taking a lot about the Electrolytic Cap over the anode , and on my 6c33 amps this is 330 uF. Some one who has the same amp , are going to try some Black Gate so i'll get a comment in the near future. I once have another amp which uses the Jensen Photo Flash Caps. They are expensive but they changes everything i remember. Speed is close to everything :-)
A little off topic , did you buy the oppo , you have talked about ??? |
Duelunds for Sale!
If anyone here has a need for a Pair of VSF 1.75uF capacitors, or Duelund Graphite resistors in the following values resistors are also sold as a pair:
6.0 ohm
8.0 ohm
12.0 ohm
Email me- These are slightly used parts, but simply soldered for testing some parts, other than that mostly like new and ready to install with plenty of length on the leads.
Thanks |
By the way I am selling them for less than half price for the most part with shipping. |
Michael
No not yet on the Oppo.
Trying to find time to finish basement. Just deciding on floors and insulation. I think there might be something to the theory of wood sounding better.
One system I heard and one thing I liked from the professional installers was how he anchored the bass to the room. I am not sure if that can be done on carpet over concrete? |
Hi Again
Yes there had been a little silence a while. A have dropped my squeezebox , and start to develop a better music program for my popcorn hour. This little box can do 24Bit/192Khz out like the oppo but cost under 200 $$$. Remember only the A-2xx and C-2xx would be able to be hacked properly.
Even it sound a little of topic , i think that i does CD way better than the logitech , i have a larger soundstage and when i do 24Bit , it's like almost heaven.
My Micro-Seiki RX-2000 record player are getting dusty :-)
One of my friend has his RIAA under V-Cap upgrade and i would be able to have a pre listening session in January , and indeed we will try my Telefunken ECC803-S tubes.
May you all have a merry christmas and enjoy with highend caps. |
Hi Fellas, Merry Xmas! I've went & had some copper teflon vcaps (.22s) dropped
into my custom pre for close to 50hrs now. They replaced the Clarity's & feed
into a passive biamp of a G8000 Sansui (lows) & my Dueland Alex powered 'Mig
amps' (tweets) into a pr. of Castle Conway III's. I was concerned about the break
in time but the Vcaps sound very nice w/a real improvement in the lower mids,
& overall improvement in detail. I like em a lot & the setup has a certain
'rightness'. I run Audio Magics liquid cables from Modwright Transporter to custome pre, toSansui, to spkr. & solid silver/teflon to migs, spkr, & JBL supertwtrs. Somehow,it all matches up to a lovely, bold, compelling sound! Success! I think that if you r familiar w/the sound of the big Gseries, it somehow matches up well w/the Alexs coming from the migs. The Gseries have a big, robust, if a tad warm sound for a solid state amp, that matches up well w/the copper foil/oilAlex's.
It 'only' took me 15yrs to finally find out how incredibly effective bi-amping is
for certain spkrs. I picked up those Castles for a song, & have several other spkrs that cost much more, so it is pretty remarkable the sound that they r
capable of producing in such a set-up. Two thumbs up for the copper/foil
V-caps!
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Merry Christmas to you too.
I have been listening to the system (when i have time) with taking up the carpet. Getting ready to start the project. So just concrete and I do not like it! (which is no surprise) I am not sure if a wood sub floor will be better than just carpet over concrete which I was listening to before but am starting that test.
Jim Smith's book Getting better sound he claims nothing matters more for tone than the wood or wood sub floor. He was an installer and former Avantgarde Speaker distributor for the U.S.. He was also a retailer of many high end brands so clearly heard a lot. He also placed tone and dynamics high on his priority list.
He says wood floor more important than ANY pre-amp difference.... |
I'm sure this has been said somewhere but I've been unable to find it so far. Has anyone compared Clarity MR to VCap TFTF or CuFT in a tube amp coupling location? The amp is a Audio Research VT-50. Other recommendations other would be appreciated as well. |
Hi Cady586
A friend of mine , have a RIAA Vcapped CuFT , i just order Clarity MR for mine. So within a couple of weeks i can try to explain what kind of difference i can hear. Just to be fair to the Vcap the need at least 350 burnin hours..
/Michael |
Hi Again.
First thing to take in consideration. The RIAA which is equipped with V-cap is better and a lot improved compared to the Clarity unit.
The Clarity MR has now 6-7 Hours , The V-Capped has about 60 Hours.
We are using a pair of Telefunken ECC803SS and they are properly some of the best ecc83 series tubes money can buy.
I know that this is a little early to write about anything but it's a lot of fun to listen to the performance dying the burn in period.
Both units sound very accurate , but the V-cap is a lot ahead at this early state but the Clarity isn't bad at all.
I own the Clarity equipped RIAA and the Telefunkens , so i'll be able to post about Clarity , but just to be fair these to caps are absolute not in the same league. But for sure the Clarity MR , had make me dust of my Micro Seiki RX-2000 and i have started to enjoy analogue again.
/Best Michael |
Have been following this thread for many months. Just installed Duelund cast caps and inductors in the tweeter midrange section of the XO of my Magnepan 3.6s. Cost a small fortune. Treble's more than a bit recessed so I'm hoping everything opens up a lot more. Will read the thread again but does the treble open up and begin to sparkle as the caps break in? The cap in series with the tweeter isd a big one-- 17uF, so I'm sure it's going to take a while. Mid-range sounds a bit clearer with the Cast inductors. Has anyone measured the series resistance of Deulund 12 ga caps? How do they compare with more standard values and caps like the stock Solens? |
Hello,
I have a pair of SC-VI (160A and 160B) and would like to upgrade the crossover, perhaps with Duelund resistors and caps, and maybe bi-amp using an active crossover like the Krell KBX.
Does anybody have the SC-VI crossover schematics, or at least crossover frequencies?
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1206661296&view
Thanks! |
Just seeing if this works |
Hello Barrysandy
That was the idea of this thread to give opinions of sound of caps. The CAST caps are low noise or recessed. I was shocked by them and that was coming from even VSF. VSF are clearly noisy in comparison. That being said I have a CAST followed by a VSF in series. I compared two CAST vs. two VSF and then one of each. A little noise can give a little life.
There is no doubt which is the best cap. |
Just wondering if any of you compared modified networks to stock to see if changes where really positive. |
Had some other issues when I re-worked the XO. Everything has opened up now. The CAST are WAYYYY quieter than the Solens that were in my Maggy 3.6s. I'm with you Volleyguy, I might prefer a little bit "juicy" noise for some airiness. The quiet blackness is positively frightening. Someone remind me how long these caps take to break in as I'm only at about 80 hours. Oh, I love the V-cap CuTFs as an inline electronic blocking cap versus the TFTFs. Very, very natural. Once you've heard them you won't want the tin foil version. |
Barrysandy
The CAST did take a couple of weeks for sure. One thing that will be left in someone's mind after hearing the CAST is just how much noise is in the average crossover. Like I have said on here before I just can not take a speaker seriously that has caps like Solen.
We are just getting to finishing the basement now. Will be done in a month. We a had (small) leak a year ago and has not leaked since, nor before for 15 years! Looking forward to some final tweaking.
The downside to CAST is at first they are shocking. After awhile everything else is just noisy. In this thread when I first got CAST from VSF in the tweeter I really wondered if I would even hear the difference? I was blown away! So much for diminishing returns.
CAST made me realize just how much noise we are subject to everyday.
Could you imagine what recorded music could sound like if the recording side used CAST?
I think Barry our mind has an idea of what the music sounded like live. I do not think CAST add a thing to the sound. VSF do. I choose a combination in the tweeter and money was not the reason.
Do you think Natural describes CUft? Neutral would be it for me. |
Barry
That juicy "noise" can be had in the VSF. So much CAST talk but I love Duelund's VSF. They resonate very naturally. I do wish I got (or could hear) a CAST woofer inductor. It was shocking how much noise was cut by that part and a CAST I bet would cut much more noise. |
