Hi Michael and Volleyguy,
I know Jimmy's site and I know he loves his Cast Duelunds. Especially the silverfoil ones. Well for the small capital he invested in these caps he really should love them!!
The Duelunds are his number one caps, I believe he then prefers the paper tube Jensens, a bit similar to Volleyguy I guess. In the end Jimmy preferred the paper tube Jensens over the mylar AudioNotes and the copper tube Jensens.
The system in which the Cast Duelunds, tinfoil V-caps, Jensen Alu tube and Jensen paper tube were tested consists of a heavy modified CEC transport coupled to the Audiomagic DAC (same league as the AN 5.1 Signature) and a very fine all tubed preamp and all tubed poweramps, both created by Peter, driving AN speakers (not sure about the model). Though it can't produce very high SPL's, is limitated in the low domain and is way less revealing than my modified Apogee Scintilla's, it is quite a good system (without any plastic cap in the signal path). More important for me was to have the caps tested by a guy I know that is very experienced, has very good ears and puts most interest in tonality (!) in his designs and modifications.
You're so right Volleyguy, about PIO copperfoil caps sounding good right out of the box. Both Jensens and the Cast Duelunds showed this clearly.
I was surprised that the Duelunds didn't show the big difference (even not after hundreds of hours playing) that other people, like you, experienced. But maybe it had something to do with these Cast caps belonging to the very first 630V caps produced by Duelund. I'm interested to hear Frederiks opinion on this. After a very long time the Cast Duelunds outperformed the Jensen in alu cap, but only by a small margin, whereas the paper tube Jensens outperformed the alu tube Jensens right out of the box.
I've not been able yet to listen to Duelunds (VSF nor Cast) in a passive speaker xover. However, the caps in the passive xover of the Scintilla are relatively high values: 240 uF in front of the midribbon and 10 uF in front of the tweeter ribbon. I bought Obbligato caps for my new (nowadays outboard) xover, but I might try out the Duelunds or Jensens in the end for the tweeter ribbon.
I actually would have liked it A LOT when I would have been able to skip the entire passive speaker xover and have it replaced by a linelevel xover. In theory I would be able to do this as I have three stereo poweramps and the Scintilla is a three way all ribbon magnetostatic speaker. There is very good software available that is able to copy the behaviour of the passive speaker xover exactly. The "problem" in my situation that makes me not do this is a small DC voltage on the outputs of the poweramps that is not easily taken away (without affecting the poweramps performance). So I need the caps in front of the delicate foil-only mid- and tweeter ribbons to prevent the DC voltage damages these ribbons.
The two inductors in the original passive speaker xover however are skipped and have been replaced by a linelevel solution. The bass ribbon (kapton backed alufoil) for instance will be connected to the poweramps output directly.
Have you ever thought about going all linelevel xover?
Cheers,
Kees |
Duelund
I was talking to Kasper at rabu-acoustics.dk and asked him , If i wish to buy a pair of CAST-Duelund 1.5 uF would the listed prices be the right ones. And he could not say that for sure before he have checked up with "Duelund".
But this raising prices nightmare was also in place for the inductors 2.5 mH for Jantzen so no panic at all.
Im just accepting and comparing it to the gold prices , but still the gold prices can drop , for sure.
Anyway have you heard the V-Cap CuFT caps ??? |
Micheal
I will let Duelund respond to the price questions but the fact that they are hand made is going to be a price problem. I suspect the reason they came out the Alexander line of machine wound caps.
K2
In comparing the Duelund's VSF vs. Jensen Copper Tube it is in an all Duelund/Jensen signal path. I have agreed a long time ago with Dgarretson the weakest link is the most important. So a crossover with lower level parts will not show the full difference.
If I was looking at a new amp it would be Jensen Copper Paper tube minimum, I share your enthusiasm for the Jensen caps as well. If I was a high end amp builder trying to make a $$$ I would use Jensen Copper Paper tube. If I am going all out and the whole signal is at least that good the only place left to go is Duelund VSF or CAST.
(I have not heard the full break in VCaps Cuft)
Undertow
I had stated a long time ago (like 28 pages ago) paper in oil foil caps do not mix well with Poly. In fact I could not listen to speakers with the two types in each crossover. What did work was Duelund mixed with vintage foil. Jensen also works well with Duelund.
What I meant by this was you can not through one Duelund in the chain and reveal it's full potential.
I have said as well this has been known since the '60's at least. In the vintage Marantz expensive amps they use large paper in oil caps. In the less expensive amps from the time, smaller (physical) paper in oil caps. I suspect why someone is paying $14k for some old amp!
What I would love to compare is a vintage Fisher (like mine) with Jensen caps or Duelund vs. the Marantz. I can not imagine the Marantz being as good? First off the caps are old and I do know the Jensen and Duelund are wayyyy better than the vintage caps used by Fisher.
K2
When Steen Duelund designed these caps (who worked for Jensen) he was very frank that there was no board to stop him. It was his passion for the best that was the motivator not the $$$ to be made from hand made parts. He knew that hand made was NOT the way for a business to go. If you have noticed Duelund has been sensitive to Jensen partly as they are competition and even Frederik admits a Jensen is better than any poly.
I have thanked Duelund on here many times as if it was not for Steen (and his passion) I would not know what is possible in audio.
|
"I'm very curious to your experiences with the Cufoil V-cap, especially how it performs compared to its tinfoil sister or brother"
I have never heard the tin foil VCaps. I never bought them the reviews were always mixed.
So far the VCap Cuft is fast but thin in comparsion to the Jensen Copper Paper Tube. This "thin" sound does take away from the music. I can say one does become impressed by cymbals etc. but dynamics matter. |
Need help
My CD player is not working. (Linn Karik hated it till I got the tube amp and did the caps then really good) Any advice? I did have it over to a friends months ago to compare to the OPPO. On Blu-Ray the Oppo was clearly better for sure but not on Red Book. Any advice what to get? I hear very good things about the Oppo and it would be nice to be able to play formats other than Red Book. |
Michael,
Rabu can easily get you quotes, otherwise feel free to mail me.
Best regards,
Frederik |
Duelund , thanks for this info. When i have finish the break-in on my V-CAP CuFT i will decide what should go into my Tannoys HPD-385A.
How big is the difference between your VSF-cu and the CAST-cu ???
/Best Michael |
V-Cap CuFT update.
Yesterday a friend of mine and I had a listening session to celebrate the +125 hours on this Teflon babies.
I borrow his pre-amp +190 hours , and modified 6c33 monos +125 hour , and we started the show.
We was playing om mine modified Tannoy's HPD-385a 303 Liters with Clarity Caps + jantzen polink coil.
First thing too observe. These teflon has a dynamic level which impress me again and again. As yolleyguy has mentioned these could sound "thin" but they have improved a lot over the last weekend , so we just have to put more time into them.
We was listening too a lot of different music but i will just list a few bands/artist which was extraordinary.
Bob Marley - Survival , what a timing and what a dry bass.
Chick Corea - Five Trios CD 5 , this drummer is playing like sitting just in front of me. I can recognize and feel the thickness of his drum sticks.
Mahler symphonie no 1 - Just newbie to more advanced classical music but i was nearly dropping my coffee cup several times , under this inferno of dynamic ranges. I can hear the lowest level in the music very clear , without disturbing my concentration.
Frank Zappa - Roxy & Elsewhere. On Penguin in Bondage there are some microphone feedback ringing under the intro it just sound so real. What a live recording and i had have it for 25 years -:)
Sarah MclachLan - Duet with Emmylou Harris , Angel Live when they are singing together it is hard no too be emotional moved. Christ i could kill some from the audience.
Cyndi Lauber - Memphis Blues , The Number Crossroad please check up on you microphone cyndi it's so noisy.
Eva Cassidy - Songbird , fields of gold this number was a little too high frequency leaned before now it's just amazing. What a voice , sorry for her destiny.
Cause it's on borrow amps , and my power amps 6c33 is not v-capped yet , the conclusion is yet they need more time. Even the warm in the music is starting to show up now.
One thing about V-Cap they run fine with other brands of caps , that is for sure. Could be fun to have some Duelund in my crossover , still saving up.
Will try to do one more review next weekend , then the power amps should be returned , almost crying.
Thanks michael
|
Michael,
I certainly think, that the CAST is in a league of its own. But quite a few users in this thread could probably answer that, without the question of my obvious bias... |
I agree, the difference between CAST and VSF is more than subtle. |
Frederik,
Can you please have a look at my question described a few posts earlier regarding my slightly disappointing experiences a few years ago with the 630 V Cast Cu foil caps (coupling caps in a preamp). The Cast caps had been playing for a couple of hundred hours and in the end only slightly outperformed the standard Jensen Cu foil (alu tube).
While this is quite in contrast to for instance Volleyguys experiences I wondered if this could have been the result of the fact that these Cast caps were actually the first produced by Duelund. I remember this fact very well from our emailconversations in the past. Maybe later generations of the Cast caps used different design/materials??? Very curious if this is really the case.
BTW: the tests were performed by a Dutch top designer. He got the caps on loan from the Dutch company De Audiofabriek while the guys of this company were very curious to hear from that specific designer how the performance of these caps was.
The system of the designer is of a quite high standard (see description above), the parameter the designer puts most interest in is "tonality".
The "weakest link" of the caps used in his system is Jensen and AudioNote PIO copperfoil caps. There's not any poly there.
Where the system revealed subtle differences after a long time between the alu tube Jensen PIO copperfoil and the Cast Duelund with the Cast Duelund being slightly better than the Jensen, the difference between the alu tube Jensen and the paper tube Jensen was more significant and immediate with the paper tube being clearly better than the alu tube.
Cheers,
Kees |
How about some more details on this test...the associated gear, speakers, room treatments, etc... |
Hi Face , is it still posible that you want to send me the diagram over your HPD-385A crossover. http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65991&page=2
Can not find anything serious on the internet to bypass the switches.
Thanks Michael |
Hi Face,
A few posts earlier I wrote:
"The system in which the Cast Duelunds, tinfoil V-caps, Jensen Alu tube and Jensen paper tube were tested consists of a heavy modified CEC transport coupled to the Audiomagic DAC (same league as the AN 5.1 Signature) and a very fine all tubed preamp and all tubed poweramps, both created by Peter, driving AN speakers (not sure about the model). Though it can't produce very high SPL's, is limitated in the low domain and is way less revealing than my modified Apogee Scintilla's, it is quite a good system (without any plastic cap in the signal path). More important for me was to have the caps tested by a guy I know that is very experienced, has very good ears and puts most interest in tonality (!) in his designs and modifications."
The "tubed" preamp and mono poweramps are designed by Peter van Willenswaard himself. He also designed the Audiomagic DAC. The preamp can't held up with my modified Silvaweld SWC1000 but it is still a very good preamp. The poweramps I find harder to rate. Further the system was connected to a Pure Power powerregenerator. btw: this powerregenerator I can recommend very well, it is much, much better than the PS Audio Premier Plant.
However.... more important IMO than the system and the room in which the test was done, is the fact that this system was able to reveal differences between alu tube and paper tube PIO copperfoil Jensens and the tinfoil VCap very well. And the difference in this system between the Cast Duelund and the alu tube Jensen was relatively small... And with this in mind that tonality is the most important parameter to Peter.
So therefore my question to Frederik: is it possible that the fact that the cast caps that we had on loan, were the first produced, is reponsible for our results or is this not a likely explanation? If not, I still would like to try out the Duelunds in my passive speaker xover one day (that is in front of the tweeter as the cap in front of the mids is 240 uF), but the coupling caps in my poweramp and the DAC will stay Jensen paper tube.
Cheers,
Kees |
Hi Kees,
I would need to have the caps here, to answer that question. |
Hi Frederik,
The caps were returned after the test to "De Audiofabriek". This company unfortunately no longer exists anymore so I don't know what has become of the two caps involved.
The tests were done in between the fall of 2007 and the spring of 2008. The caps were very likely manufactured by Duelund somewhere close to the summer of 2007. I must have contacted you for the first time somewhere close to the spring of that year. In these days only the 200 V cast copperfoil caps were available. When I contacted you, you told me that you were working on a 630 V version. From that moment it took a few months before the first 630 V cast caps were finished.
The cast caps that were manufactured for me were 2 x 2,0 uF copperfoils. They were put into the typical circular paper casing and measured in my memory something like 10 cm diameter and 5 cm height. They were huge and very heavy.
Kees |
Looking for some advice. Run a full tube rig w/6c33 monos, tube pre,
modwright transporter, audio magic liquid cables, hot rodded da-1s.
Rolled the clarity mr caps into the pre, very nice upgrade, lots of air, great
extension & spaciousness. I am considering either the MR or the dueland
Alexandria for the tube monos. Someone mentioned that duelands don't
mix well with other caps so I am hesitant...... any experience/suggestions?
Thanx. |
HI Regismc , I am listening to a pair of 6c33 mono's right now. The have the V-CAP CUFT 0.022 uF in each and they are playing fantastic. Be Aware they need a lot of break-in time these monos has been playing with the caps for 168 hours right now. V-CAP has no problem with mixing with other caps, i have the Clarity MR in my tannoy speakers.
If you won't go for Duelund , V-Cap because they are costly , try the Jensen Copper , Then are really good and does not cost a fortune. Which Values do you need ??? |
Regismc,
Never heard the Duelund Alexandria's. I have heard the Duelund VSF, and the Clarity MR. Both are great, both can't go wrong. And the only comment on Mixing was directed toward trying to combine another type of cap either bypassing a duelund or in a circuit like a crossover using more than one type or several positions of capacitors, then your better off with all Duelund 100% or all Clarity MR 100%, not a mix of the 2.
As for your amps I am sure both are great, but Clarity MR's I have used in an all Tube preamp with stellar results, and I have used a Duelund VSF in a tube PHONO amp with also zero compromise results.
The VSF may be slightly more natural, the Clarity MR might have a little more detail which doubles as "Airy". Depends on the tubes, if they are very soft or warm it might be a nice contrast using the Clarity MR's as you have already had first hand experience. Also Size consideration physically comes very important in play. If a Duelund or Clarity MR' depending on the Value you need is just too big to fit.
If one of these caps has a smaller body for the comparable value (Alexandria vs. MR) than you might be better off with the physically smaller cap depending on the space you have available as both are winners. The VSF is a bigger flat body almost guaranteed to take more space and may not fit at all, then again depending on the setup might fit better with a big flat cap opposed to a big round body cap. |
Thanx fellas. All caps r .22's, both pre & monos. A pr. In each
mono & a pr. of .22 MRs already installed in the pre. Each mono
has 2 6C33C bottles w/4 12at7s, about 50wpc. The V-cap coppers
'sound' attractive, as I've a friend w/the 'non coppers' in a pr. of monos
which always sound really good, but, I gotta choose btw. the MRs or
the Dueland 'Alex's @this time. Sale prices thru July @PartsConnection. I've heard the other Duelands @RMAF as I live in CO. & they are always amongst the best sounding rooms, (@least in speakers), & the MRs r
doing a lot of things right. Decisions, decisions... |
By the way as a side note, I am not sure the verdict on (Oil Capacitors) in electronics reliability these days? I know when the Jensens came out 15 years ago and started this whole DIY high end capacitor landslide that some say they did not always survive the test of time without leaking?
I assume the Duelund Oils / Alexandria's are better today, and I am sure better sounding, however I had Jensen oils "Stock" in Balanced Audio Technology amp, and they used these in Tube and Solid state gear. I replaced them with the newer Jupiter HT's a couple years ago, and they are much better... No oil, and they are better than the Mundorf Oils as well.
I am not totally sold on the Oil in electronics, I do like them in Speakers and they will last there due to low heat and voltage. I also owned a CARY Tube mono pair with Jensen oil's, was not blown away, as a matter of fact I found the reliability and sound better from even something like the Jantzen superior Z caps.
So for me I think the MR's or the Jupiter HT's are the best for the MONEY. Duelund Alexandria's are a little more than both it looks like so if you want oil, I don't know myself how oil sounds in comparison to an original Duelund VSF style as this is a very different product for them, but I do know all other oil caps do not compare to a VSF or Clarity MR' so that's just my 2 cents. |
Undertow,
Not to comment on other manufacturers, rest assured the Jensen of today are orders of magnitude better than Jensen of old with regards to reliability. |
So, order in 4 the Dueland 'Alex's, .22 for my Mig monos. They will replace a pr.
of Aeon coupling caps. I'm a bit 'nervous' as I've yet to see any detailed
description on these as everyone seems to focus on the upper models. As
noted, oil in tube amps, may portend reliability issues vs teflon or 'poly'. I can
always swap out for the MRs if I end up w/too much added 'color', or pay up for
the likes of cutf vcaps. My only prior experience w/'oils' is a pr. of Mundorf s/o/g in a pre that long gone. So its MR's in the pre, & 'Alex's in the amps for a
spin. I've replaced all the small signal 12at7 tubes in the migs, which were originally mullards w/psvanes as that was a bit too much 'rounded' or old fashioned of a tube signature, did I just put myself back in the same boat?
I like textures & tonal colors w/layering & spaciousness. All of my power
cords & interconnect/spkr wire are Audio Magic clairvoyant liquids, made of
polymers, the most natural sounding cables I've heard. They don't carry rf,
r dead quiet, & super natural sounding. More than the various copper, silver, & golds I've tried. Many of the discussions here on capacitors, could be at
least partially transcribed onto my experience w/cables w/the liquid polymers
being the best, most natural & tonally correct. The 'metals' bring a coloration,
a signature of sorts w/various 'emphasis'. Jerry of Audio Magic says they 'ring' as a way to describe the difference. Anyways, I'm in for the experience
& having some fun, as always in audio & life, the education continues....
|
Hi Regismc
Glad you tried the Alexander from Duelund , we're missing a review upon these caps. I and a couple of friends did a listening session with the guy who had build my amps. He was in total chock over what a different a 250+ hours V-CAP CuFT does to his amps.
Currently he 'is using Mundorf s/g/o but he will immediately swift to Jensen PIO types. V-CAP he think would make his amps to pricey.
And my lesson is , NEVER JUDGE a CAP before the ending of the break-in time , NEVER. |
Oh Micheal 250 hours. That is so long! |
Volleyguy , yes indeed this is a awful long time.
My friends pre-amp should be about 330-350 hours by now. Hopefully next weekend we'll be able to check at 400 hours.
My pre-amp is now at 220 hours , the 250+ hours set i was
listening at was not mine..
The best thing is that still at 200+ hours it still is getting better..
What was the break-in time for your Duelunds ?? |
Could someone please recommend a cap (or a combo) for the Audiotechnolodgy middriver in a crossover? I plan to use the Duelund copper VSF for the RAAL tweeter. AT is a little bit on a warm side warm and Duelunds for them are too expensive for me. |
Micheal
Duelund sound great out of the box. They do get somewhat better but never sound bad. They are an easy break in. The CAST are a little tight though at first. |
Other side of Duelund Silver Wire is in. In the next few weeks I will be able to test the VCap Cuft with exact same signals. |
Volleyguy, be interesting to have your viewpoint on a stereo pair with the Duelund silver wire. After a few hundred hours I'm still undecided about this wire. The presentation has lots of satisfying weight and embodiment, but may be a tad over-damped and leaden. Does lots of things well, but maybe not everything. |
Dgarretson
I was worried you were undecided on the Duelund wire. I do agree with you. I think the flat solid wire covers all freq's MUCH better and stranded as stranded seems to favour the high's giving more air.
I found when rewiring my speaker the drivers work much better in unison. With the stranded there was target freq for each driver.
Is there a price? Maybe. Have you went back and tried your old wire?
I also find the plastic coating causes an echo which I can not see any good from that.
I think it comes back to the Clarity White paper saying 70% favoured low resonant caps in a blind test. The other side was still 30% favoured high resonant caps. I think we like the air? Tony Gee liked the Ampohms and they sound just like vintage to me, quite high resonance. (I can't tell them apart) |
Dgarretson
Which do you think is more correct?
When I heard the CAST vs. VSF I knew the VSF was adding noise but I was Ok with it, or at least some combination of VSF and CAST.
I do want to hear CAST in electronics sometime.
The VCap Cuft is interesting and not thrown in the trash bin so to speak as I have with so many other kinds..... at least not yet. They are at least neutral I can not hear any tilt like Mundorf Silver in Oil, Ampohm or vintage. Only 20-30 hours so far likely. Just not sure if they are natural? |
Volleyguy,
20-30 hours on the Vcaps is nothing. I haven't tried the new copper version, but the teflon Vcap took over 400 hours to open up, and that was in an electronics component( preamp outputs) |
Volleyguy, in the key areas of performance the Duelund wire does much better than the old Cardas stranded copper, and maybe will continue to open up through extended break-in. It's interesting that in the course of PMing an audio friend who had also installed the Duelund wire in speakers, we both confessed to thinking of adding a super tweeter. Subliminally we were both looking for more on top. Are you? |
Further to the ClarityCap resonance study, I'll add that listening to a low-resonance capacitor-- or a low-resonance wire, assuming that this is the purpose of the oiled silk jackets on the Duelund wire-- can take some getting used to. Once the microphonic "excitement" is gone, one needs to evaluate whether musical information has gone missing as well. IMO excessive soft damping in some types of PIO caps can have both effects, in addition to causing shelving effects throughout FR.
Audio has alternatives to deal with mechanical resonance(e.g. soft vs. hard damping, coupling vs. isolation). Each approach may have its place. Moreover, damping properties of materials vary independent of dielectric properties. Teflon, for example, which has excellent dielectric properties, is relatively soft, which may be a good or bad thing with respect to resonance control? FWIW, I can report that at least several leading OEM designers don't like the "sound" of teflon as compared to polypropylene. But what properties of the construction are they really hearing? There are multiple variables in operation.
It's good that the inclusion of V-Cap in the discussion seems to have moved the thread beyond the paper vs. plastic discussion.
Dave
ClarityCap OEM Sales |
"I'll add that listening to a low-resonance capacitor-- or a low-resonance wire, assuming that this is the purpose of the oiled silk jackets on the Duelund wire-- can take some getting used to. Once the microphonic "excitement" is gone, one needs to evaluate whether musical information has gone missing as well."
Write it in stone. The same is true for cables. That was a big surprise for
me, totally unexpected. I tried a single 'liquid" power cord in my rig, feeding a conditioner & it just sounded 'right'. A bit quieter, more layering
of vocals (it was holiday music), just more real. Each one, power &
Interconnect added to the effect, simply more real. Never 'spectacular'
effects, but quieter so that instruments are more distinct & identifiable.
For a few weeks as this was completed I did have a question as if I had
'rolled the treble', it was so quiet. But, no way! All the music is there in
a way that is totally non fatiguing & so well balanced top to btm. Good
recordings are fully fleshed out in a most enjoyable & satisfying way w/detail & air, but never harsh. I'm looking for a bit more 'focus' by rolling
caps. Though it may be my speakers or isolation equip. under the migs,
I figure that the Aeon caps, though musical, may be 'upgradable'.
Anyways I find it iintersting that caps have a similar 'fingerprint', & look
forward to getting the 'alex's into the mugs. |
Dgarretson
Interesting you ask about the super tweeter and yes considered it for sure. I seem to remember a high end super tweeter on the Duelund site? I remember mentioning this in the past wondering if they felt they needed one? |
Would anyone be able to tell me how they feel the Jensen Pure Copper Foil pio in Paper tube sounds in comparison to the Duelund Alexander copper foil pio?
If I understand this correctly, they are both made at the same location, sharing resources for R&D, design, manufacture, sales & promotion, etc. I am not implying that they are the same tube however.
With the Jensen Copper foil in paper tube costing much more than the Duelund Alexander, would one presume it to be on a higher level than the Alexander?
Also, does anyone know what the max operating temp is for both of these capacitors?
I need to buy a couple of .22's for use in my single ended 845 amplifier and it runs hot.
Thank you for your help |
That should read 'migs', as in Mig fighter jet tubes, not 'mugs'. I should
also mention I run a pr. of JBL pro 'slot' supertweeters, not the 'bullets.
These r run on lpads w/solid silver wire from the spkr. terminals & sit atop
the Daedalus. A really nice addition if you can find them. |
Volleyguy, I suppose that once the treble has been purged of artificial resonance excitements and is more clearly delineated, one is in a better position to experience the subtleties of what a good supertweeter can do on top. Moreover there are a few designers and reviewers who believe that a supertweeter projects overtones downward in FR. Thus there is the potential to unveil a more extensive improvement across FR, while also embellishing HF to redress the sensation of slight treble attenuation that one may perceive in a low-resonance crossover. As I have not yet tried this I am guessing, of course. |
Another way to embellish HF is to bypass the tweeter cap. I'd be interested to hear others' experiences on this point. |
Sherod
Yes I am not saying anything conclusive about VCap's as they have almost legendary break-in time |
Regismc
I think you are going to be shocked at what caps mean. To me it is the sound of a system. |
No regrets
I would not assume right off for the Jensen to be better? I think Jensen priced the Paper Tube to give reasonable value to the VSF or expensive CAST. |
Thanks Volleyguy for sharing your thoughts with me. I have decided to order the Dueland Alexander and give them a try. I realize that they won't compete with the VSF or CAST, but hopefully they will share some resemblence of the Duelund family traits.
All the best, |
The wait is over.. 400+ hours on V-Cap CuFT in my pre-amp and they are amazing. There is absolute nothing "cold" in them , and the music , timing has really chocked me.
I hear things in recording which for 3 month ago wasn't there.
So to all who want to take their hifi experience to another level consider them as your best friend. |
Hi Dgarretson,
A few pages back I wrote about a sort of bypass-experiment in the tweeter section of the magnetostatic Apogee Scintilla with its two, highly revealing 1,5 m tall and 0,5 inch wide, pure aluminium foil tweeters.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1211428524&openflup&1366&4#1366
My experiment differs a bit from the more common "single, small-value bypass cap"-experiment (that most of the time uses different caps for the bypass and main cap), as I experimented with multi-parallel caps of the same type/manufacturer. I experienced that this configuration made a very (!) significant improvement over the single value cap (same type/manufacturer as the ones used in the multi-parallel cap). Further I noticed that multi-parallel caps using different kind of caps lead to bad results.
It is a pity that I haven't read so far on this forum of someone else doing this same experiment, as the improvement is not small and the costs are very low. In my earlier post I mentioned that I would not be surprised (based on my experiences and Tony Gee's captest) when the Obbligato cap performs in about the same level as the best Mundorfs when used in multi-parallel configuration. |
For my Infinity RSIIb speakers I needed 2uF and 3uF caps for the low-tweeter and high-tweeter, so I paralleled (2) and (3) 1.0uF Mundorf Supremes. It sounds excellent. |
I'm going to use 8 x 25uF ClarityCap MR caps in lieu of one 200uF Solen cap in the band-pass filter of my Tannoy 215 DMT ii crossover. I understand that this will result in lower ESR which will be audible as loudness.
Are you stating that many caps in parallel sound better? Or just louder due to lower ESR? |
It sounds better, not louder IME.
The multi parallel cap reveals more detail than the single cap, however without becoming a "detailed" cap like for instance some of the very high cost polypropylene's or the TFT V-Cap. Its sound can in particular be characterized as more natural.
This might be the result of the multi-parallel cap having a more benign resonance character, is less noisy. But if so I don't know which factor is responsible for this: other resonance frequency spectrum, smaller amplitude resonance, even lower resistance/inductance and/or something else...
The bad results with different caps used in a multi parallel cap might indicate that the resonance frequency as a result of the 1) tightness of the winding (probably a relative constant value for a line of caps produced by a manufacturer, so more or less equal with small and bigger caps of that line) and/or 2) the type of the foil is big.
I've read about low value caps having another time behaviour than high value caps and something about different memory-effect. This would result in bad sound when small and big values are combined in a multiple parallel cap. Maybe, but I haven't experienced it. No doubt there will be a (slightly) different time behaviour, but maybe the advantages of the multiple cap are big enough to compensate for this. And of course in order to prevent this one can build the multiple parallel cap up with caps of one single value, like you for instance will do with the 8 x 25 uF.
Frederik of Duelund put some attention to the multi parallel cap having more soldering joints than a single cap. I don't believe this has anything to do with it. First it is a parallel cap and not a series cap, further I know how bad soldering joints in a speaker xover sound like and it is far from natural/detailed. As I wrote earlier I once noticed a xover built by a professional manufacturer with multiple parallel VSF Duelunds. No doubt the effects I've noticed with the Obbligato's will be relevant for the Duelunds as well. Though the Duelunds will have a high dampened character by nature, reducing the resonance even further by multiple parallel caps might be rewarding with Duelunds as well.
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