I agree with Volleyguy's hierarchy for the most part. Improving couplings caps in the upstream electronics makes the biggest difference. I would probably tweak the ranking just a bit. Going from biggest improvement to less:
1. Coupling caps in linestage
2. Coupling caps in phono stage
3. Resistors in key locations of phono and linestage
4. Capacitor in tweeter crossover
5. Coupling caps in power amps
6. Resistors in tweeter crossover (if any)
7. Inductor in woofer crossover
8. Capacitor in woofer crossover (if any)
9. Inductor in tweeter crossover (if any)
Of course, the degree of difference that a cap replacement makes depends on what type of cap is being replaced and by what. You can expect a much bigger difference replacing a Solen with a CAST than a V-Cap with a CAST, for example.
It is often said that no capacitor is perfect and they all have some type of sonic failing. That is certainly true. Yet I don't recall ever reading any description of the Duelund's failings. There's no question the Duelund CAST copper sounds very good, and we tend to focus on all the things it does right but it isn't perfect.
Based on my experience with 3 pairs of CAST caps (.47 at 630v, 1.0 at 630v, and 7.5 at 100v), and having tried the high-voltage caps in several locations, both as bypasses and solo, I would offer this one complaint. The Duelunds don't have enough high-frequency life and sparkle. They sound just a bit too smooth in the upper mids and treble and not quite as airy and resolving as I would like. Now you won't hear those areas as problems if the CAST replaced a Solen. But compared to a 1.0uf Sonicap Platinum, that's what I hear. The SP has more life, more air and more finely resolved detail in the upper highs. The Duelund sounds better overall than the SP---better balanced tonally, more detailed, more neutral---but I do miss the special qualities of the Sonicap Platinum in the treble. (Note: these comments only apply to the 1uf SP, not the smaller values).
What do the rest of you think about the CAST caps? Do you hear any negatives? |
Revision to which is most important caps.
1. In my opinion now phono stage. Another CAST ordered for that location. (massive improvement there)
2. Maybe line stage
3. Tweeter caps.
4. Woofer inductor. (wish I had CAST instead of VSF)(that might put that part at top of the list?)
Duelund cap coming along with Gold Lions for phono stage.
I will literally have to replace small value caps or upgrade some speaker caps from VSF to CAST from here. |
Just finished testing vintage tubes vs. Psvane and Genalex Gold Lions.
When the Genalex went in the preamp section over the vintage I noticed right away less resonance and a fuller sound. When I got the Psvanes things were even quieter when used with the Genalex's. (maybe to quiet)
The vintage tubes thin out voices wash out the sound but when first installed give the sense of air. The combination of Psvane and Genalex reveal things like the singer can not hit the note. The voice becomes much more real faults and all. Which is better Psvane or Genalex? Not sure yet...
For a couple minutes things sound better with vintage tubes but then I realize the price that is paid by all the resonance.
I am going to get another set of Genalex 12AX7's to compare directly vs. Psvane |
I used Neotech when rewiring Spendor 9/1 speakers a few years ago, replacing what appeared to be multistrand lamp cord, and was very pleased with the result. |
The phase 1 (of 5) of my duelund external crossovers is ready and working. This time only changing all resistors to duelund cast, keeping all solen caps and inductors. I conditioned the duelund caps and inductors (for later phases), but forgot to condition the solen parts with the cable cooker, so it will take several days for them to settle and be able to do critical listening.
On a different topic, I decide to rewire my dunlavy sc vi speakers. For the tweeters, already purchased mundorf solid silver gold, which should arrive in a few weeks. For the 15" woofers, I am thinking about using neotech occ solid copper 12awg. For the 8" woofers (150hz to 1khz 1st order) I am in doubt between neotech solid 12awg or cardas litz. For the 5" mids (1khz to 2.5khz 1st order), also in doubt between neotech solid 14awg or cardas Litz. Maybe neotech solid for 8" and cards litz for 5"? or should use same type for 8" and 5"? What do you suggest?
Thanks in advance. |
I just wanted to mention .I have documented many ,1,000 s of hours on capacitors and changes over the years. For Resistors hands down even the standard Duelund resistors are the best,their black case models even better.
Capacitor wise I agree the Duelund Cast are the best out their period.
If you have the $$ they even make a pure Silverfoil a Silk beeswax
Capacitor that a 3.3 u.f is actually over $1,300Each . I am told a full crossover can cost $20,000 in a set of speakers.the Rolls Royce of caps !! |
I also noticed immediate changes. Pretty big ones to. I have placed one CAST cu cap, one CAST PIO inductor and one VST Cap in my filter. The CAST PIO replaced my North Creek inductor. I had already changed all resistors to Duelund CAST. What i hear is a significant better separation, resolution and dynamics. Voices sounds wonderfully lifelike. My Fostex T500 supertweeters sounds nice and airy. I use the Duelund in my serial filter, feeding my satelites going from 100Hz and up. Bass is taken care of by my custom open baffle bass towers with 10x15" Great Planes Audio woofers. |
There was an immediate improvement in the sound with the CAST installed in my speakers and also my DAC. The sound quality steadily increased over the next several hundred hours it seems. I'd say most of the change occurred in the first 100 hours. I'd recommend them to anyone without a trace of hesitation.
Charles, |
Finally i got my Duelund components. Installed them in my xovers yesterday, but had to go over everything this morning again. Playing my first couple of songs as i write. First impression is very good indeed. How long should i expect before the Duelund components are sounding as they should? What are your experience? |
Psvane's getting around 100 hours on them now. So far in early testing they are quiet but do not have the tonality of the Genalex Gold Lions. I am burning them in in the phase inverter section which they seem good in but have had them in the pre-amp several times. So far with a slight greyish tone? The difference so far is the Genalex makes the performance come alive and seem real the Psvane's more HiFi.
This thread started with value of parts idea. I would spend my money first on capacitors and for sure that over some obscure tube unless the tube is an investment? A Duelund CAST or even a Jensen Copper foil paper tube is massively bigger than many other capacitors the difference is tubes is not so great but I think this is to be expected as one tube is not 30x bigger than another like a capacitor can be.
When I bought my CAST tweeter caps there was not the volume discount on 630v types. Curious if the physically bigger ones sound better than 100v caps? |
It seems that Krell Service is now using for their full-recap service work for FPB series the Nichicon PS(M) capacitors.
Has anyone compared these with Nichicon gold line? FG, KZ, FW, KW?
http://www.nichicon-us.com/english/products/alm_mini/pict_f.htm
Thanks!
p.s. My external crossovers are still not ready. |
Looking for perfection (I know it doesnot exist) I was wondering if a change to polyprop caps for the elco's in my psu (tube preamp) was the answer. Buying and trying them was fun (for the hobby) but although it cause an improvement to the elco's I miss something, a bit. Than Claritycap comes with the 450V 4-poly Kelvin polyprops. I buy two of them and .....wow! The sound becomes more crispier, tighter, has more weight, you can hear the acoustics better.
Has someone the same experience (or not)? |
At the end of the 12AX7 test whichever tube I think is the best will get the sales of replacement of my vintage tubes I will be retiring them to reference new tubes.
These are good times for tube lovers! Is this the tube golden era??? I can say none of my vintage tubes has the has anywhere near the high freq clarity of the Psvanes. (Wow!)
Is this going to end up like a Duleund CAST vs. a vintage cap?
I think the internet has been excellent for connecting a small group locally but larger group world wide who care about this kind of stuff to producers and customers. I think this is why we are getting real breakthroughs. |
Personally, I don't care for the sound of Mundorf caps. A good similar German made cap is the Audyn. For top shelf caps I like Jupiter (USA) or Duelund (Denmark). |
Charlesdad and Sherod
I only posted initial impressions for someone else who may hear them. I thought the Psvane's were terrible out of the box and had not heard anyone say this? I even took them out to listen to music. I do have to admit even right off Sherod I knew they were going to be very good at the high frequency. I could hear they were low resonance tube though right off.
In the burn in process I would change the tube in and out and my daughter could hear the difference on a video game! (it was that big) I kid you not, double blind and she could hear the difference. She loves her video game hooked up to several thousand $$$ worth of Duelund caps! We have really got great family use out of the Duelund parts. Just two channel for movies but the sound is awesome!
The Gold Lions did not change in sound so much through the break-in. |
Volleyguy,
I'm glad you were patient and gave the Psvane tubes some reasonable burn in time. Some people are too hasty in judgements and never realize the true performance of products. These tubes are likely to continue to improve. |
Volleyguy,
Assuming that your Psvane 12ax7 tubes meet spec, you'll continue to hear improvements. After 50 hours, you'll hear a more open midrange and particularly extended bass and high frequency response. I have yet to hear a better high end from any NOS 12ax7 than what these new Psvanes provide. |
Sherod
Mine sounded dead and lifeless out of the box to a shocking degree and tones were grey. Sinking feeling in the stomach not just of the money but lack of choice of a new tube.
The good news they have improved dramatically at around 30 hours to the point they sound nothing like they do new and are becoming quite good! I could tell right off the bat they were low resonance. I really thought this was going to be no contest with the Gold Lions but now I am not so sure...
I hope the Psvane's keep improving!
Are we in a second tube era where it is no longer some tube of the past? |
I have read that some of the new Psvane 12ax-7 tubes could become microphonic after a while, but I haven't had any issues yet. My Psvane 12ax7 tubes are in my 1960 Pilot 402 receiver. They sounded pretty good right from the start but I noticed that after maybe 40 hours, they really opened up to flesh out the top and bottom end. Previous 12ax7 tubes I used were old NOS Siemens and Mullard. In my Pilot, the Psvane are superior in clarity, dynamics and frequency extension. I have never heard cymbals sound so natural. Keep in mind that this is my bedroom system. Speakers are refurbished Dynaco A-25, with Musicap on tweeter and VH Audio UPOCC copper Airlok wiring in crossover. This Airlok hook-up wire is really special...incredible clarity and dynamics. |
Sherod
Any idea on how long the Psvane's have that greyish tone?
Right now they are like a blanket over the music?
I went and got some of my old Mullard 12AX7's to listen again. They sound very similiar to the Gold Lions but the Gold Lions (Genalex) sound every bit as good and better IMO.
I was looking and prices for vintage tubes have really went up.. Maybe now I can see why?
The Psvane's on the other hand? Other than the Genalex's I have not used new 12AX7's and maybe got a false sense new tubes were pretty good...
Not to be too critical of the Psvane's they seem well built as are the Genelax's. |
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Claritycaps TC series 450V is now on the list of Hifi Collective. To see you have to push the button "buy now!" at the capacitors homepage. |
Sherod
I hope you are right. I have heard so much good about them. I have only old (non power) tubes and when I tried the Gold Lions I was not expecting much and was shocked just shocked at how dynamic and quiet they were. |
The Psvane 12ax7-T tubes are excellent tubes...very dynamic, clear and neutral. Give them some more time. |
At 10+ hours these tubes sound terrible!
Very dead sounding. Very HiFi sounding. Very poor dynamics. I feel like someone has been pulling my leg. So far these are the worst sounding tube I have heard in my system. I had only vintage tubes until the Genelax Gold Lions which are VERY good. I sure hope this improves! If this is what most new tubes sound like I can see the mega $ on NOS tubes. |
Psvane tubes are in and I am not sure what to make of them? Sound very different. They are for sure low resonance you can tell that right away but dynamic and bass shy for now. |
I bet they will have extremely low ESR. Tom |
Just so everyone knows I was just not going gaga over a car. Elon Musk (Tesla) says Super Capacitors are what is going to replace batteries.
He did not mention how good they would sound though? |
You guys had me feeling bad making the Tesla comment so I went out today and bought some Psvane 12AX7's from partsconnexion. Should be here tomorrow or next day. Chris had good things to say about them.
This thread was about the value in audio and I have to admit those Duelund CAST caps are good value. (with the new discount on small values)
I am going to compare the Psvane's vs. the OS (many kinds) and the Gold Lion 12AX7's which I thought were better and any old tube I have.
I never should have test drove that Tesla. 400hp instant power of electric is addicting! Sorry my mind is wandering again. |
Only the 700V version, not the new TC 450v version. |
Parts Connexion has them listed. |
Hi-Fi Collective is just now receiving inventory and Parts ConneXion should have inventory in 5-6 weeks. |
See no TC's listed but this company is related to Clarity Cap and may offer some concepts. They do offer film caps. ttp://www.icwltd.co.uk/products/pc.php |
Yes, where can I buy them? Clarity Cap's website shows no information. |
Where o you purchase these new TC caps? Thanks for the post! |
Grannyring & Batalok,
There is a new ClarityCap TC/450V metalized polypropylene power cap that uses thinner film technology than the existing TC700V range. It offers good volumetric efficiency relative to the alternatives listed above. It has a low-resonance acrylic tube like MR, and radial four-pole Kelvin terminations to improve high frequency filtering. Dims for 100uf are 50x65mm.
ClarityCap OEM Sales |
Grannyring, I too have the intentions to change caps (in my power supply, tube). You have a lot of capacitors: Mundorf Tubecap, Mundorf M-lytic Hv+, Obbligato PSU-capacitors (only 2), Claritycap TC-range and the common polyprop cap Audyn Q4 and Q6-range, Solen, Dayton (250V) and JFX-series(250V) to name a few.I have tried the Obbligato. Want to hear comments. |
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I have looked at the TC line for my purpose but would have to use an external box of caps. The link that Dave posted about the Williams Hybrid Electronic Flywheel previous shows many cap alternatives with low ESR. Dave may want to come on line with his suggestions. Tom |
I have a question and I hope one with good experience can help.
I want to upgrade the caps in my 45 SET amp. I need the following;
2 - 100uf /100 v
2 - 100uf /350v in power supply
Right now just cheap electrolytics. I want film caps, but very few go this large and don't know which ones are best.
I was thinking of Clarity SA or the TC line from Clarity. Solen?
Ok, please help me. Yes, the cap can be rated for a higher volt value then the original cap. |
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Jburidan, your post just cracked me up. So true........ |
Thanks Dave,
I follow F1 closely especially the Lotus Team. We each had one of those back in the day. I went on line and checked out the link to the Williams Team and their hybrid technology and the division of Clarity Cap that provides some of their components. Many new products useful in audio as well?
I look to F 1 racing for ideas on room tuning and acoustic control devices for my own listening space and speakers. These teams utilize the the energy flow across their driving machines instead of killing off what's natural, unlike most devices designed and used in audio rooms. Tom |
This thread is a complete mess! |
If trying to merge your audio and automotive interests, you might check out the Williams race team/Williams Advanced Engineering/Williams Hybrid Power. They use ICW/ClarityCaps in energy-recovery braking systems. |
Just been away looking at Solar and Tesla cars. Other interests than Audio. More tests coming once the weather cools! |
I exchanged emails with Anthony Lucas, Eminence tech support, back in 5/2006. I need to take out one of the 15" woofers and send him the part number, which I still haven't done, but plan do do soon. |
You might email Tom James at Eminence speaker he had much to do with that 15 inch driver when John was designing the VI's. Tom |
Hi Tom,
The 220uF cap is not in the circuit of the 8" woofers. The crossover circuit for the 8" woofers is composed of a 2.56mH inductor in series with a 10R0 resistor (3x 30R0 resistors in parallell), and in parallel with the 8" woofers are a 3.3uF cap in series with a 123.0 uH inductor.
I understand the Krell is able to drive the parallel 15" woofers directly, but I was wondering what are the pros and cons of leaving the Zobel network or taking it out. |
The Krell should be able to handle any reactive whip lash with out a Zobel network. The 220uf cap seems that it would be the bass filter for the 2 8ohm 8 inch mid-woofers wired in parallel that net 4 ohms combined for a 6db slope around 180hz. That's a maybe from way over here. Tom |
