Cable Break In for the Naysayers
I still cannot believe that in this stage of Audio history there are still many who claim cable break in is imagined. They even go so far as claim it is our ears that break in to the new sound. Providing many studies in the way of scientific testing. Sigh...
I noticed such a recent discussion on the What’s Best Forum. So here is my response.
______________________________________________________________________________________________ I just experienced cable break in again firsthand. 10 Days ago, I bought a new set of the AudioQuest Thunderbird XLR 2M interconnects.
First impression, they sounded good, but then after about 30 hours of usage the music started sounding very closed in and with limited high frequencies. This continued until about 130 hours of music play time.
Then at this time, the cables started to open up and began to sound better and better each passing hour. I knew at the beginning they would come around because they sounded ok at first until the break in process started. But now they have way surpassed that original sound.
Now the soundstage has become huge with fantastic frequency extensions. Very pleased with the results. Scientifically I guess we can’t prove cable break in is real, but with good equipment, good ears, it is clearly a real event.
ozzy
Those who think differently than you are not necessarily in a "cult."
That's nice virtue signalling! But guess what? Habitat for Humanity is anything but secular. See here: Since our founding in 1976 as a Christian organization, together we have helped more than 62 million people in countries ... | |
”ears not up to it” Nice try, ozzy. That tactic does not work. As I implied, if not stated outright: my system is revealing enough to hear the difference, if the differences are there to be heard. To open another controversy: it is revealing enough that I can hear the difference between vinyl that is AAA vs ADA or DDA. Many in this forum, yourself perhaps, argue that it’s not possible. I was able to spot when MOFI quality went down, without understanding why. Then we all learned what happened. Nevertheless, to each their own. Enjoy your cult of what can at best be characterized as confirmation bias. I prefer the secular world. I prefer to spend my idle capital at Habitat for Humanity. theaudioatticvinylsundays.com | |
From PS Audio; Audio myth I’ve been doing this long enough to know better than to dismiss what people hear. If someone tells me their new DAC sounded harsh out of the box, and that it softened after a few weeks of play, I’m not going to argue. We trust our ears for everything in this pursuit. But when it comes to the subject of break-in, or burn-in as some call it, I think it’s time we get honest about what’s really going on. Here’s the claim: new audio gear—especially speakers, cables, electronics—needs time to “settle in” before it sounds its best. Sometimes it's 100 hours. Sometimes 500. It’s often repeated, rarely explained, and almost never measured. So let’s take it apart. Speakers? Absolutely. Drivers are mechanical. You’ve got cones, suspensions, voice coils, surrounds—moving parts under tension. When you play music through a fresh set of speakers, those parts flex and stretch and settle into a state where their compliance changes. The spider loosens. The surround becomes more elastic. It’s small, but it’s real. And you can measure it. We’ve seen it at PS Audio. A brand-new woofer might measure a few Hz higher in resonance than the same woofer after 10 hours of play. You can also hear it: bass tightens, midrange clears up a little, things feel more relaxed. So yes, speaker break-in is real. Not dramatic, but real. Now, cables and electronics—that’s where the conversation usually gets uncomfortable. A lot of engineers will roll their eyes at the idea that a power cord or a preamp needs break-in time. But that’s because they’re looking for a mechanical or measurable change as obvious as a loudspeaker cone softening up. And this isn’t that. With cables, it’s not the conductor that’s changing. It’s the insulation—the dielectric. In the first 100 hours or so, as voltage flows through the cable, the dielectric begins to polarize. That change affects how the cable stores and releases energy, which in turn affects timing and phase relationships—especially in the upper octaves where our ears are most sensitive to space and air. Some of the changes might be subtle, but they’re audible. I’ve heard new cables that sounded flat or edgy out of the box, only to bloom with use—opening up, relaxing, and becoming more natural. The same holds true for electronics. Capacitors form. Voltages stabilize. Some materials behave differently when warmed repeatedly. And just like with cables, the changes might not show up clearly on a scope—but we hear them. I’ve heard solid-state amps that sounded stiff and closed-in for the first couple of days, then gradually opened up and gained body. Same with DACs. Sometimes the tonal balance shifts. Sometimes it’s dynamics or space. But something happens. We don’t always know exactly why. Some of it we can explain—dielectric conditioning, capacitor forming, thermal stabilization. The rest? That’s a leap of faith. But after thousands of hours with gear in and out of the system, I trust the pattern. I don’t need a scientific paper to confirm what I hear when I let a piece of gear settle in and breathe. What’s funny is that we never question this kind of process in other parts of life. Musical instruments open up with playing. Cars loosen up after a few hundred miles. Even our own ears adjust over time. Yet in audio, we’ve been taught to distrust the unmeasured. I’m not saying we throw out science. But this is a hobby built around listening. If it sounds different—if it sounds better—after a few hundred hours, then that’s real enough for me. Break-in isn’t a myth. It just happens in ways that aren’t always easy to see—but are often impossible to ignore.
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Absolutely. Cables that have been shipped, of taken from a system, transported... often need more break in time. I’ve never done a systematic evaluation of how much movement it takes. But my dealer will bring over used cables (12 mile drive) and they definitely improve in the first few days of use... as do those sent to me in the mail. | |
So, I just purchased a used set of the AudioQuest Dragon bi-wire speaker cables. To help finance this purchase I just placed my AudioQuest Thunderbird speaker cables up for sale now on the Gon. I know shameless plug, sorry, but the cables are really great. BTW, I also now have the AudioQuest Firebird XLR interconnects. Getting back to the forum thread. This should get the Cable Naysayers nostrils flaring... Has anyone experienced the need to break in used cables? I have. I guess it depends as to how long they have been used, usually it only takes a few days. And I understand many people who have cable cookers often re-cook their cables periodically. ozzy
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Exactly. Enjoy reading George’s history and mastery of cabling, and his associated explanations. For those who can’t hear a difference, buy cheap cables, save your $ and enjoy listening whatever you’ve got. Non-believers will likely never hear a difference, and whatever the case - only those who explore more will actually know and/or hear the difference. Some systems are not up to the task though... Starts here: https://www.cardas.com/deep-dive
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unreceivedogma Thanks for your comments. I originally thought about cables as you do now. How can wire be different? It’s just wire, right? My first experience into the great wire unknown was when a dealer years ago lent me a Synergistic Research Master coupler power cord to try. I was convinced that no way can a power cord do anything. It’s just thick wire? And the cost? But I tried it, and I couldn’t believe the difference. More bass, soundstage etc. That one event sent me down the rabbit hole I am now in. By that I mean, I have found so many differences in the way cables sound and perform. That is, power cables, interconnects, speaker cables etc. And each piece of equipment may react differently with different cables. But if your system, and ears are not up to it, you might let this pass you by. Enjoy what you have and what you prefer. ozzy | |
To avoid being perceived as being “irritably over-the-top” in my decidedly dim view of this entire discussion. Over the years, especially when suffering from severe cases of have FOMO, I tried well over a dozen high end interconnects costing in the low thousands per pair. At the price points being discussed, I found no meaningful quantitative improvements. Ever. I sometimes thought that I may have perceived qualitative changes, but those perceptions could just as easily have been attributed to, in the immortal words of Ebenezer Scrooge, “An undigested piece of potato” that messed with the firing of any number of neurons between my cochlea and my auditory cortex. One needs a cable that is thick enough, and shielded enough to do the job. Beyond that, the operative word, which you used, is “believe”. Meaning, faith, religion, occultism, voodoo. Not for me. See my system on the about page of theaudioatticvinylsundays.com No mention of cables. | |
atanarjuat99,I owned the Sopra 2’s for quite some time and enjoyed them very much. They have beryllium tweeters and depending upon the source many think they sound bright. I didn’t, but at that time I was using tube amps. I used mine with no toe-in, so you could start there. Silver cable may increase the brightness in the tweeters, but make sure your cables are really burned in. I found that silver cables are all over the map in sound quality. Silver cables made from purer silver (.9999) sound great. But that can be expensive. ozzy | |
@ozzy Hey late to this discussion but have been meaning to let you know for about a year that one of your previous posts on copper cable break-in saved me from returning my Audio Sensibility Signature speaker cables. They are made from a square piece of solid copper. Honestly they sounded so terrible at first that I was going to return them until I found your post explaining that complex copper cables are very slow to run in. Now they sound breathtaking. So thanks! Quick question, I have a digital cable (also from Audio Sensibility) that is 99.9% silver. I have run it in for over 200 hours but, with my Focal Sopra 2s, it just sounds a little fatiguing in the high end. But the resolution and detail are phenomenal. Is this a silver problem or a Sopra 2 problem - *in your estimation*? My alternative digital cable from Snake River Audio sounds absolutely lovely but has less resolution.... | |
Interesting and enlightening blog article on this topic from one of my audio hero’s …Ben at Mojo Audio. | |
Had a recent positive experience with a new slave sub cable I had made, custom length at no extra charge by Analysis Plus, on their recent 25% sale. Initial listening was negative, I could experience less involvement in the music. Over the next hours, I could hear an improvement and the next day, it was obvious, such an improvement in delineating lower bass notes. | |
I love to hear the sound of your system. Do you have a link of your system video? Alex/WTA
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Back before I developed any empathy (i.e. around 12) I used to take a shovel, find a hill of red ants, shovel it out and drop it onto a hill of black ants and watch the battle. (Yes, I know, as I said it was before that part of my brain developed). This is what the OP just did. What other point could there be? | |
Cozzy is absolutely correct. I recently purchase a pair of 1m Dragon XLR cables, at first, they sounded decent, but every frequency was weak bass midrange and treble were weak and lacking dynamics. However, I continued the break in process until 100 hrs. then hello i had to strap myself to my lazy boy chair the cable began to open up. The bass and vocals were my biggest amazement then the refinement of the treble kick in. The issue is patience most music enthusiast doesn't want to wait this long but audiophiles like me will wait up to 400 hrs because the end result is worth it. | |
It is probable that cable break-in is most obvious on horn speakers given their sensitivity notoriously so in the treble regions. It is in the upper registers that my Klipsch Cornwall 4's demonstrate break-in most unequivocally. I never "adjust" to shrill highs. They either go away or I do, or rather the cable goes away. | |
@audiom3 NPS Qt-45 is worth i. t I think it makes a definite improvement. It’s 40% off at the Cable Company now! | |
audiom3, Try this. ozzy Contace Enhancer Nano Particle Solution NPS-Q45T Contact Enhancer (thecableco.com) | |
@ozzy do you have a link to this QT-45? | |
Ozzy, I did not test/compare all of my cables before/after since having and using the Cable Cooker took that variable out of the equation. So, while I am not saying that I found the cooker to work specifically, it certainly let me focus on what I was hearing and not wonder/worry about what I might not be hearing. | |
mitch2, You are not alone in your experience. I too have made many cables. Some with copper and some with pure silver with various insulating materials. And I can’t say that I experienced much of a break in effect. Sometimes a little sometimes not. I have also bought/tried so many cables through the years, and I can say, that most of the "new" ones did exhibit some break in. But, as noted in this thread, the AQ Thunderbirds exhibited quite the break in. Perhaps it is due to the type of dialectic used or maybe the design itself. I dunno. I guess nothing in this hobby is truly absolute. ozzy | |
About 20 years ago, I decided if I was going to compare expensive cables and make purchase decisions, that I at least needed to make sure I was hearing them at their best. Therefore, I purchased an Audiodharma Cable Cooker that I used to “cook” every cable I tried in my system and later all of the cables I constructed myself. During that time, I tried multiple cables (both manufactured and DIY) before/after “cooking” and I honestly cannot say I ever heard what I would call a meaningful difference between the uncooked and cooked versions. I have heard significant differences between electronics, speakers, individual analog cables, rooms, and software for digital playback, but nada related to cable break-in (or fuses). | |
Speaker cables will breakin using a high current amp. I/C will never breakin with the amount of current produced from a CD player or preamp. I use a old pioneer receiver and connect RCA or XLR to the speaker terminals. I then use a 20 watt sandbar resistor to terminate. After turning the receiver volume up to about 1/2 way I let it sit for 4 days. I just did this burn in process with a brand new pair of Shunyata Sigma 4 meter long XLR cables. I have also done this with 4 pairs of Shunyata Anaconda XLR cables. The difference is very noticeable. | |
@kennyc -
As long as you never stop CRITICALLY THINKING, EXPERIMENTING and LISTENING.
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The cable company that I've been buying cables from since 2017, Audio Sensibility, offers cable break-in for an additional $10 CAD. I have never once ordered the break-in in my dozens of orders. Not that I am cheap, I just keep thinking that one of these times, I may notice a difference between new and ~100 hours of use. But I still have yet to find the right cable :( Not disputing the OP, just saying I have never been able to notice any change. I either like it in the first 20 seconds of use, or not. | |
“My Silver, Palladium, and Fidelium cables were all designed from the transmission line or waveguide point of view that electricity flows between the conductors, not in the conductors. The energy is transmitted in the form of an electromagnetic wave. Energy does, however, penetrate the metal conductor material and that portion of the energy becomes a secondary error or memory signal (time-delayed). The physics behind this suggests that the smaller or thinner the conductor is, the less time it will take for the electromagnetic wave to penetrate the conductor, thus resulting in a smaller timing error. As you know, many cable manufacturers have evolved to produce cables with smaller and smaller wires to minimize what they describe as the skin effect. Most of them, however, still view electricity flow as electrons inside the wire, like water in a pipe. This is an analogy that does not allow or account for phase or group delay in a wire." | |
If the first link, in my above post, isn't working for the (genuinely) interested: https://theconversation.com/from-newton-to-einstein-the-origins-of-general-relativity-50013 Happy listening! | |
Much of the foregoing conversation, only shows that not all Physics courses are equal. ie: @carlsbad2 - As a Physicist: to what theory do you lean*, regarding lambda? * There is NO wrong answer! Could/would you honestly say, that opinion jives with your Prof's? Electrical Engineering courses? FA'GET ABOUT IT! | |
Time for another rewind: ie: Inescapable FACT: No one understands exactly how electricity works. That’s why there’s so much Electrical THEORY. The number of Wiki-Scientists on these pages, attempting to win the IG-Nobel Prize in Pseudo-Physics, is always amusing. Whenever some highly educated person actually does discover exactly how electricity functions, they’ll be lauded by the scientific community, will have solved some of the disparities between Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, receive a Nobel and we’ll hear about it. Newton’s THEORIES were largely superseded by Einstein and Bohr's. Then came Feynman’s. For now; none of you can absolutely prove your statements (theories), regarding electricity, FUSES, wires, or anything else, as regards our systems. The following articles, read in sequence, illustrate my point: https://www. then: and: | |
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mclinnguy, You are right on! We should not poo-hoo something we have never tried. There is so much to learn! I think that is why AudioQuest keeps upgrading their cables. They have been in the forefront of cable development for many decades now, and I am sure they have tested and learned so much. But the process and reinventions will continue. Maybe someday there will be a means to measure a cables sonic quality...and break in? Even today as I listen to music, I am still impressed by the deep and lively soundstage, thanks in part to my cabling. And, you must have the equipment and ears to appreciate cables significance and the burn in process. ozzy |
