+1
Focal + Silver likely to = fatiguing
I'd go for Cardas Clear or Clear Beyond. Will be much smoother and more natural.
Cable Break In for the Naysayers
I still cannot believe that in this stage of Audio history there are still many who claim cable break in is imagined. They even go so far as claim it is our ears that break in to the new sound. Providing many studies in the way of scientific testing. Sigh...
I noticed such a recent discussion on the What’s Best Forum. So here is my response.
______________________________________________________________________________________________ I just experienced cable break in again firsthand. 10 Days ago, I bought a new set of the AudioQuest Thunderbird XLR 2M interconnects.
First impression, they sounded good, but then after about 30 hours of usage the music started sounding very closed in and with limited high frequencies. This continued until about 130 hours of music play time.
Then at this time, the cables started to open up and began to sound better and better each passing hour. I knew at the beginning they would come around because they sounded ok at first until the break in process started. But now they have way surpassed that original sound.
Now the soundstage has become huge with fantastic frequency extensions. Very pleased with the results. Scientifically I guess we can’t prove cable break in is real, but with good equipment, good ears, it is clearly a real event.
ozzy
202 responses Add your response
atanarjuat99,I owned the Sopra 2’s for quite some time and enjoyed them very much. They have beryllium tweeters and depending upon the source many think they sound bright. I didn’t, but at that time I was using tube amps. I used mine with no toe-in, so you could start there. Silver cable may increase the brightness in the tweeters, but make sure your cables are really burned in. I found that silver cables are all over the map in sound quality. Silver cables made from purer silver (.9999) sound great. But that can be expensive. ozzy |
@ozzy Hey late to this discussion but have been meaning to let you know for about a year that one of your previous posts on copper cable break-in saved me from returning my Audio Sensibility Signature speaker cables. They are made from a square piece of solid copper. Honestly they sounded so terrible at first that I was going to return them until I found your post explaining that complex copper cables are very slow to run in. Now they sound breathtaking. So thanks! Quick question, I have a digital cable (also from Audio Sensibility) that is 99.9% silver. I have run it in for over 200 hours but, with my Focal Sopra 2s, it just sounds a little fatiguing in the high end. But the resolution and detail are phenomenal. Is this a silver problem or a Sopra 2 problem - *in your estimation*? My alternative digital cable from Snake River Audio sounds absolutely lovely but has less resolution.... |
Interesting and enlightening blog article on this topic from one of my audio hero’s …Ben at Mojo Audio. |
Had a recent positive experience with a new slave sub cable I had made, custom length at no extra charge by Analysis Plus, on their recent 25% sale. Initial listening was negative, I could experience less involvement in the music. Over the next hours, I could hear an improvement and the next day, it was obvious, such an improvement in delineating lower bass notes. |
I love to hear the sound of your system. Do you have a link of your system video? Alex/WTA
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Back before I developed any empathy (i.e. around 12) I used to take a shovel, find a hill of red ants, shovel it out and drop it onto a hill of black ants and watch the battle. (Yes, I know, as I said it was before that part of my brain developed). This is what the OP just did. What other point could there be? |
Cozzy is absolutely correct. I recently purchase a pair of 1m Dragon XLR cables, at first, they sounded decent, but every frequency was weak bass midrange and treble were weak and lacking dynamics. However, I continued the break in process until 100 hrs. then hello i had to strap myself to my lazy boy chair the cable began to open up. The bass and vocals were my biggest amazement then the refinement of the treble kick in. The issue is patience most music enthusiast doesn't want to wait this long but audiophiles like me will wait up to 400 hrs because the end result is worth it. |
It is probable that cable break-in is most obvious on horn speakers given their sensitivity notoriously so in the treble regions. It is in the upper registers that my Klipsch Cornwall 4's demonstrate break-in most unequivocally. I never "adjust" to shrill highs. They either go away or I do, or rather the cable goes away. |
@audiom3 NPS Qt-45 is worth i. t I think it makes a definite improvement. It’s 40% off at the Cable Company now! |
audiom3, Try this. ozzy Contace Enhancer Nano Particle Solution NPS-Q45T Contact Enhancer (thecableco.com) |
@ozzy do you have a link to this QT-45? |
Ozzy, I did not test/compare all of my cables before/after since having and using the Cable Cooker took that variable out of the equation. So, while I am not saying that I found the cooker to work specifically, it certainly let me focus on what I was hearing and not wonder/worry about what I might not be hearing. |
mitch2, You are not alone in your experience. I too have made many cables. Some with copper and some with pure silver with various insulating materials. And I can’t say that I experienced much of a break in effect. Sometimes a little sometimes not. I have also bought/tried so many cables through the years, and I can say, that most of the "new" ones did exhibit some break in. But, as noted in this thread, the AQ Thunderbirds exhibited quite the break in. Perhaps it is due to the type of dialectic used or maybe the design itself. I dunno. I guess nothing in this hobby is truly absolute. ozzy |
About 20 years ago, I decided if I was going to compare expensive cables and make purchase decisions, that I at least needed to make sure I was hearing them at their best. Therefore, I purchased an Audiodharma Cable Cooker that I used to “cook” every cable I tried in my system and later all of the cables I constructed myself. During that time, I tried multiple cables (both manufactured and DIY) before/after “cooking” and I honestly cannot say I ever heard what I would call a meaningful difference between the uncooked and cooked versions. I have heard significant differences between electronics, speakers, individual analog cables, rooms, and software for digital playback, but nada related to cable break-in (or fuses). |
Speaker cables will breakin using a high current amp. I/C will never breakin with the amount of current produced from a CD player or preamp. I use a old pioneer receiver and connect RCA or XLR to the speaker terminals. I then use a 20 watt sandbar resistor to terminate. After turning the receiver volume up to about 1/2 way I let it sit for 4 days. I just did this burn in process with a brand new pair of Shunyata Sigma 4 meter long XLR cables. I have also done this with 4 pairs of Shunyata Anaconda XLR cables. The difference is very noticeable. |
@kennyc -
As long as you never stop CRITICALLY THINKING, EXPERIMENTING and LISTENING.
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The cable company that I've been buying cables from since 2017, Audio Sensibility, offers cable break-in for an additional $10 CAD. I have never once ordered the break-in in my dozens of orders. Not that I am cheap, I just keep thinking that one of these times, I may notice a difference between new and ~100 hours of use. But I still have yet to find the right cable :( Not disputing the OP, just saying I have never been able to notice any change. I either like it in the first 20 seconds of use, or not. |
“My Silver, Palladium, and Fidelium cables were all designed from the transmission line or waveguide point of view that electricity flows between the conductors, not in the conductors. The energy is transmitted in the form of an electromagnetic wave. Energy does, however, penetrate the metal conductor material and that portion of the energy becomes a secondary error or memory signal (time-delayed). The physics behind this suggests that the smaller or thinner the conductor is, the less time it will take for the electromagnetic wave to penetrate the conductor, thus resulting in a smaller timing error. As you know, many cable manufacturers have evolved to produce cables with smaller and smaller wires to minimize what they describe as the skin effect. Most of them, however, still view electricity flow as electrons inside the wire, like water in a pipe. This is an analogy that does not allow or account for phase or group delay in a wire." |
If the first link, in my above post, isn't working for the (genuinely) interested: https://theconversation.com/from-newton-to-einstein-the-origins-of-general-relativity-50013 Happy listening! |
Much of the foregoing conversation, only shows that not all Physics courses are equal. ie: @carlsbad2 - As a Physicist: to what theory do you lean*, regarding lambda? * There is NO wrong answer! Could/would you honestly say, that opinion jives with your Prof's? Electrical Engineering courses? FA'GET ABOUT IT! |
Time for another rewind: ie: Inescapable FACT: No one understands exactly how electricity works. That’s why there’s so much Electrical THEORY. The number of Wiki-Scientists on these pages, attempting to win the IG-Nobel Prize in Pseudo-Physics, is always amusing. Whenever some highly educated person actually does discover exactly how electricity functions, they’ll be lauded by the scientific community, will have solved some of the disparities between Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, receive a Nobel and we’ll hear about it. Newton’s THEORIES were largely superseded by Einstein and Bohr's. Then came Feynman’s. For now; none of you can absolutely prove your statements (theories), regarding electricity, FUSES, wires, or anything else, as regards our systems. The following articles, read in sequence, illustrate my point: https://www. then: and: |
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mclinnguy, You are right on! We should not poo-hoo something we have never tried. There is so much to learn! I think that is why AudioQuest keeps upgrading their cables. They have been in the forefront of cable development for many decades now, and I am sure they have tested and learned so much. But the process and reinventions will continue. Maybe someday there will be a means to measure a cables sonic quality...and break in? Even today as I listen to music, I am still impressed by the deep and lively soundstage, thanks in part to my cabling. And, you must have the equipment and ears to appreciate cables significance and the burn in process. ozzy |
It's not just a degree, or two, or a PhD or 20+ years of research after the PhD in a single field, they still don't know, and some we will never know, thankfully, but humanity will keep plugging along. I saw a good show once about ten years ago about a humble guy, about science, and those who attempt to pretend to "know it" ; (I tried to look up his name but there are a few with the same credentials, apologies) This aspring university student got a biology degree, decided he always loved honey bees, so dedicated his masters to honey bees, researched honey bees some more and submitted his dissertation on honey bees to earn his PhD. He researched honey bees again 50 hours a week for another 30 years, outside of unfortunately having to teach some lectures to be employed by the university. On the weekends for fun he researched honey bees. After retiring he started to focus on his great love and hobby- researching honey bees. Another 10 years later I believe he did some speeches on honey bees (for fun) and one of the questions was "you are one of the world's experts on honey bees, and have been for decades, how much more is there to possibly learn about honey bees?" He said "I have dedicated over 50 years of my life to honey bees, and I probably only know 1% of what there is to know about honey bees." |
tomic601, Yes, there are many things that can’t be explained by our normal methods. Science and Math try very hard to express with absolutes. And, we do need a foundation to start with. Heck, I’m still trying to figure out what if anything is beyond the Universe. If nothing, then are we in a box? And/or Infinity, it is just something I can’t comprehend. So, I guess I better keep the subject on cables... ozzy |
@ozzy I have had Pegasus and up in my reference system for a long evaluation…. game changer level cables…. expensive but for many worth consideration imo |
Whenever i hear about a degree in X, Y, or Z in engineering or science…i wonder what they have contributed lately to understanding paired photons, the existence of a singularity in a rotating black hole, or even error correction in a quantum computer….. and…it’s crickets…. There are plenty of things we don’t yet fully understand….maybe copper wire…. which is never 100% copper….might….just…. be….one of them….. |
hagtech, jayctoy, Thank you for your comments. It seems some of the cable deniers have died down. I can understand their opinion if they have tried several types of cables and found no difference but to just out-right dismiss without hearing for differences it is hard to believe. At least, to those of us who value sound quality. ozzy |
Good post @ozzy. A lot of the ASR folk state (with apparent absolute authority) that if you can’t measure it, you can’t hear it. I’d like to know approximately which year this started. Was it true a hundred or two hundred years ago? In 1924, we had some very good tube amplifiers, not just for audio, but also long distance telephone and radio. Just how good was the test equipment back them? Sure they could measure distortion at a single frequency, up to a point. They also had wave analyzers (forerunner to spectrum analyzers and VNA). But really nothing super sophisticated. And yet engineers were able to design and build some very good quality amplification. My guess is that a lot of this was done by ear. Therefore, at some point in our history there was a crossover? What year were measurements finally better than hearing? Come on ASR people, when was it? |
The elephant in the living - the gauge of the cable wiring. For instance, on my system running Cornwall 4"s - a high efficiency speaker - changing speaker cable gauge has obvious and logical impacts on sound. Going from 10 gauge "western electric" cable to 16 gauge "western electric" modifies the sound hugely. Granted, I am sort of cheating here but am I really? To pretend that cables are all anonymous, identical non-entities is just too silly. |
@carlsbad2 can you please elaborate on what can possibly change in a vacuum tube throughout the course of the limited break in process you have come to accept as a phenomena? I’m also trying to figure out what exactly goes thru the break in process in a Furutech Rhodium plated outlet that results in such a wild sonic rollercoaster? |
