Cable Break In for the Naysayers

nyev,

I find that most quality cables take about 200 hours to breakin. The Dragon included. They are awesome and you will enjoy them!

Congrats!

ozzy

nyev,

I have read that some people hear hum with the AQ conditioner. Maybe, if I place my ear right on top of my 7000, I can hear something, but I have Critical Mass footers under all my components including the Niagara 7000 so perhaps that lessens any noise, but I really don’t know.

ozzy

knownothing,

Thank you for your comments. I believe that the negative cable break in comments come from people who have not really ventured down the Audiophile trail seeking the best in sound quality. Some just seem like angry people...

The AQ Thunderbirds did surprise me in their break in evolvement. I spoke to AQ and they say it does take many hours to break in, regardless of their technology.

ozzy

ptss,

I’ll have to review it.

Thanks!

ozzy

Hang in there, they will transform!

ozzy

It is no problem when you don’t agree with my topic, but if you can, flesh it out with more details as to why you feel that way, it would be helpful.

ozzy

I remember the phase that "if we can't measure it, it can't be real".

However, perhaps we do not have the proper equipment to measure it.

ozzy

There have been some very good posts on both sides of the question.

From this discussion, If I had not heard the difference before/after breakin I too might (maybe) have been convinced that cables do not break in. Afterall it’s just wire and insulation?

But this phenomenon is real to me, as I have experienced equipment and cabling break in too many times in my 50+ years in this hobby.

However, it does seem that AudioQuest cables are especially sensitive to break in. My Dragon power cords were also quite dramatically changed after break in.

BTW, my system is posted on my systems page.

ozzy

I don’t agree. I do not believe equipment exists (yet) to measure the burn in/breakin of cables. But if you had the audio equipment and ears you would be a believer.

I remember feeling the same way as you do now many years ago about power cords. I felt how can a power cord change the musical sound quality? I was sure they would test the same. Wire is wire...right?

But a dealer gave me a Synergetic Research Master Coupler to take home and try. When I first connected it up, I was convinced as you are now that it could not possibly make a difference. Then I cued up the first song and ... huh? How can this be? More bass, bigger soundstage??? Just from changing a power cord that is supposed to be the same gauge? Can’t be...

From that day on I was convinced that we really don’t know as much as we think we know when it comes to sound quality, equipment, and yes cables. Measurements can only test OHMs Law.

ozzy

That Audio Science guy is always negative about HI-End audio stuff. He does all these measurements but never actually listens to music to evaluate.

ozzy

jafant,

I had an opportunity to replace both my speaker cables (used) and the interconnect cable (new) with the AQ Thunderbird. Now along with my AQ Dragon power cords and the AQ 7000 conditioner I now have a complete loom of all AQ cabling.

I am not using a preamp; I am going straight from my Lumin X1 to my mono block amps.

ozzy

I think that audio science guy really likes the Topping Equipment. He claims it really tests well with his lab equipment.

Has anyone actually used this equipment? I have, and it sounds terrible, so sterile! No life in the music.

Tests great, sounds bad. 

ozzy

Yeah, you can believe the true Audiophiles who actually listen to music not measurements.

Earbuds probably measure pretty well too.

ozzy

I guess everyone has an opinion on this subject and I would like to hear it. For those of you who believe all cables are the same, please can you describe the sound quality you have experienced before or after the scientific measurements; do they agree with the sound quality?

Have you ever tried other cables? Did any of them sound different?

And most important, share with us the type of audio equipment you are using, including cables, amps, speakers etc.

ozzy

The Naysayers opinion on cable breakin is probably due to the system that is used (and perhaps the ears) is not revealing enough.

And/if you progress through this hobby with better equipment, cables and the breakin will be more apparent.

ozzy

Sorry, but your system looks like a beginner’s system. Like we all started out with. It may be good for home theater though.

If you like it, then enjoy it!

ozzy

It all starts with the system, and our hearing. If you are happy with the equipment, you have and are enjoying the tunes, then that is all that really matters.

But don't claim all cables sound the same and breakin is just a myth.

I felt that way when I had Radio Shack equipment.

ozzy

Evidently...

I am not saying that cables alone will transform a system beyond its capability. But cables that work well with your system, will allow that system to perform to the best as designed. Afterall, we are connecting a component to another through the cabling. Remember the phrase "it is only as good as the weakest link"?

All in all, cabling can only degrade the potential. Keep an open mind and experiment to hear what works best.

ozzy

fleschler,

Thank you for your post. I never claimed to be able to explain cable breakin. But it is apparent to those who care about the final outcome.

Phono cartridges hmmm. Amazing, thank you.

Just to get the deniers more riled up (just kidding) but I found the Critical Mass footers also had a breakin period of about a week.

ozzy

jafant,

Thank you, my friend.

To me it's all a matter of synergy. Our systems should work as a unit.

ozzy

I removed my previous post, not the moderators.

ozzy

nyev,

I think the Dragons will continue to improve. Do you have a AQ Niagara power conditioner?

I can't believe that my mono block amps sound more dynamic plugged into AQ Niagara 7000 than just straight into the wall outlet.

ozzy

bolong,

Thanks for that information. Some things cannot be explained by the current measurement techniques.

But we know when something sounds better...

ozzy

And it would be real to anyone else who has a good system and ears...

ozzy

nyev,

It may have taken longer to breakin because typically the Dragon Source power cords do not see the higher power demands that the Dragon Hi-Current do.

Regardless, they are great cables, Enjoy!

ozzy

My Thread And My Extra Opinion:

Actually, this hobby is supposed to be about musical enjoyment, so the more our equipment improves, the more enjoyment! Throw away the scientific measurements. Use your ears!

I am amazed how good my system sounds; each piece has been added based on sound quality with my ears! That includes cables, footers, etc.

I have auditioned systems in excess of $1M (that probably measures better than mine) and I believe mine competes if not betters.

ozzy

Looking back at my last post, perhaps I was a little over the top in my message. I guess I get irritated when there are still many so-called audio hobbyists that will dispute the sound quality of different types of cables and poo-hoo cable breakin without any actual first-hand experience.

ASR is a website dedicated to that way of thinking. Many of the ASR members express views of the need for scientific testing. Which to me, to a certain extent, is important. But these tests can only measure some form of Ohms law. We can also test for loudness, bass, treble etc. but can we really test wholesomeness of a soundstage?

How do you measure a painting, a feeling, or a sound?

I guess I can understand some of the skepticism, because yes, the price of some cables seems to be exorbitant, and some of the advertising claims can be way out there. Believe me I do understand. However, there are many cables that will help transform your system and provide that extra pleasure that was just not there with the “wire is wire” thinking.

Keep an open mind and actually try it within your own system before passing judgement. I think as I once did, you will be shaking your head saying, I can’t believe it… But I hear it, believe it, and feel it.

BTW, my AQ Thunderbird cables probably have around 400 hours on them and continue to improve.

I just visited a site that was showing the Clarisys Auditorium (the big brother to my speakers) and they were using 6 mono amps, and they were using a full loom of the AQ Thunderbird cabling...

And.. I guess I am still a little over the top...

ozzy

carlsbad2,

So, you do not think different cables can sound different? And cable breakin cannot occur?

ozzy

hagtech, jayctoy,

Thank you for your comments. It seems some of the cable deniers have died down.

I can understand their opinion if they have tried several types of cables and found no difference but to just out-right dismiss without hearing for differences it is hard to believe. At least, to those of us who value sound quality.

ozzy

tomic601,

Yes, there are many things that can’t be explained by our normal methods. Science and Math try very hard to express with absolutes. And, we do need a foundation to start with.

Heck, I’m still trying to figure out what if anything is beyond the Universe. If nothing, then are we in a box? And/or Infinity, it is just something I can’t comprehend.

So, I guess I better keep the subject on cables...

ozzy

mclinnguy,

You are right on!

We should not poo-hoo something we have never tried. There is so much to learn! I think that is why AudioQuest keeps upgrading their cables. They have been in the forefront of cable development for many decades now, and I am sure they have tested and learned so much. But the process and reinventions will continue. Maybe someday there will be a means to measure a cables sonic quality...and break in?

Even today as I listen to music, I am still impressed by the deep and lively soundstage, thanks in part to my cabling.

And, you must have the equipment and ears to appreciate cables significance and the burn in process.

ozzy

audiom3,

Nice system.

I think it does depend on the equipment and the cables. Some exhibit large break in differences some do not. But I agree that most cables start out ok, but as I have experienced this can change dramatically.

ozzy

kennyc, rodman99999, bolong, and flemke,

Thank you for the posts, very interesting.

ozzy

mitch2,

You are not alone in your experience. I too have made many cables. Some with copper and some with pure silver with various insulating materials. And I can’t say that I experienced much of a break in effect. Sometimes a little sometimes not. I have also bought/tried so many cables through the years, and I can say, that most of the "new" ones did exhibit some break in.

But, as noted in this thread, the AQ Thunderbirds exhibited quite the break in. Perhaps it is due to the type of dialectic used or maybe the design itself. I dunno.

I guess nothing in this hobby is truly absolute.

ozzy

mitch2,

Ok, I understand.

I owned the AudioDharma cable cooker for some time. I thought it worked pretty good.

Eventually, I started adding heavier, stiffer cabling and it became no longer easy to reuse them periodically on the cable cooker, so I sold it.

ozzy

So, I just applied a thin coating of QT-45 to just the speaker cable banana's and I hear even more resolution, deeper soundstage.

Not sure if this will improve with more time, but right now I am pleased.

ozzy

audiom3,

Try this.

ozzy

Contace Enhancer Nano Particle Solution NPS-Q45T Contact Enhancer (thecableco.com)

ptss,

I just read it, quite intense and informative, the big-name Cable Companies learned alot through all these years.

ozzy