Big speakers in small room at moderate volume levels

@ yyzsantabarbara ,

I’m looking for something similar to you: small office, and low/moderate volume levels. I read, and read, really nothing conclusive.

At this moment, some quality active monitors like the Genelec 8331/8341 look the best option for me. They have real engineering behind, not the typical garage speaker. In addition, they have sophisticated room correction that should remove issues with the bass. However, there is not enough feedback in the audiophile forums, just in the professional ones. Audiophile forums only care about the bigger Kii and Dutch&Dutch, or the less sophisticated LS50.

In the passive front, the Focal Sopra 1 are something I’m looking at, but these look more difficult to place, and I’m worried about the minimal listenning distance, which should be small in small rooms.

What option is better for musical joy, I’ve no idea.

@ctsooner  This discussion has led me get to the position now where I would change the thread title from "Big speakers in small room at moderate volume levels" to Stand mount speakers in small room with big sound at moderate volume". I am thinking why buy a speaker with more bass than the room can handle to only have to tame it with room treatments and analog or digital acoustic corrections. I am essentially throwing money away. 

I have realized, with the help of posters here, that a stand mount like the KEF LS50 but with bigger sound is the way to go. So the following are going to be demoed by me in early 2019 after I have time to get acquainted with the new GIK room acoustics and existing KEF LS50 (treatments arriving this week). The sound I have now is not ideal and I am certain due to the untreated room. 

- TAD ME1
- Harbeth SHL5+
- KEF Reference 1

One important consideration that I have pointed out is good sound at low volumes so I can listen and enjoy while the baby is asleep. The 3 listed above are supposed to be good in that light. The demo will tell. I know the KEF R1 will agree with me if the other 2 do not.

Today, I am actually putting my focus on integrated amps. I have 4 that I have narrowed my choices too (see above) and just going over the pros and cons of each of those 4.

Last month, I did hear the Treo CT with Bryston electronics (cubed series) and it was good but I think for my ears and seating position they will sound too big for the room.

I have owned the Treo's and now have the Quatro's.  The Treo CT would be great in a room like yours.  They are highly dynamic and easy to drive, especially the way you listen to music.  I didn't feel they were that heavy.  My wife lives the tapered shape of the cabinet as they aren't 'big' looking to her.  Again, you have to listen to know about any speaker.  You will figure it out.

Feedback from Lyngdorf on whether Room Treatments can be used with Lyngdorf Room Perfect:

"hi
you do not ’need to’ remove anything
- but if you have ex. a bass-trap, we would recommend removing it, as having RoomPerfect removing energy from the signal is better for the speakers, than removing energy from the room through the bass trap

Best regards
Flemming Smith
LYNGDORF AUDIO"

The same sentiment was expressed by Alan Shaw on the HUG forum on the DSP discussion and Harbeth speakers.

OK, first thing to try is to make the room work with the GIK acoustic treatments and without the Room Perfect DSP. So I will try with the only amp I have at hand, my Peachtree Nova 150 and the Harbeth for a home demo. So I guess I have picked the local dealer for the Harbeth.

@djones51 Thanks for the feedback on that M100.

I should have also posted on my prior post that based on feedback from you guys here. I am holding off the Magico A3 from consideration for now. It sounds like that speaker goes down too low for such a small space. I think the Lyngdorf guys may disagree with me but I will go small first. The A3 may also be best served with warmish electronics. 

I will first try a smaller speaker that does not go as low and live with that for a while. However, based on how the room treatments work and if I also get a Lyngdorf a bigger speaker maybe something in the distance future.

I used to have the micromega M100. I only sold it because I wasn t using the room correction , hence my recommendation of the Ohm speakers. It was a very nice amp sound wise and I never heard the fan , forgot it even had one. 

Actually I have been pretty consistent. I stated in the middle of this thread that I have narrowed it down to  3 speakers for the office (in no order)

- KEF Ref1 
- TAD ME1 (4+ good recommendations for this one but $$$)
- Harbeth SHL5+ (something different to break the KEF monopoly, and cheaper)

The following are my integrated amp considerations:
- 3 AB integrateds, Mark Levinson, Hegel H590, Luxman 509x
- Lyngdorf with DSP Room Perfect system

I am trying to avoid buying a separate DAC since this is for my office and I want simplicity and less boxes (though not a deal breaker)

BTW - @audiotroy   your recommendation on the TAD ME1 made me seriously consider spending the considerably more money on this. I had eliminated it from consideration due to price.

The KEF R1 and TAD ME1 are along the lines of what I regularly have been listening to at home, the KEF LS50 + Thiel SCS4 speakers. I took a detour for 11 months to buy the Audience 1+1 V3 dipole speaker. These are all small speakers because, in the past 10 years, I had limited space. I have a dedicated office now in my new home and I only have the LS50 left. I like concentric drivers but I am going to give the Harbeth a chance.

If I did not have my current room issues I would most likely buy the Mark Levinson integrated. Depending on the new speaker's power requirements, either the ML 585 or the new ML 5805. Why this model? I have demoed the ML 585 and found that I liked it and it delivered the specific sound qualities I was looking for, including sounding good at low volumes.

However, I think I may need room correction. So I am holding out on getting an Class AB amp until I buy the speakers. I will test the new speakers with my Class D Peachtree Nova 150 first to see if DSP is needed. If it sounds like the speaker is too big for the room then I will do the following:

1) If I buy the Harbeth SHL5+ I will buy the Lyngdorf  2170 (with DSP Room perfect system). I have been reading Harbeth designer,  Alan Shaw's, post on the HUG forum and have read his views on DSP, near-field positioning, front and back port and rear wall placement, music types suitable for Harbeth. All of these point to suitability for my situation. Only question is whether I will like the Harbeth. People are pairing Harbeth with Lyngdorf.

2) If I stretch $$$ wise to buy the TAD ME1 then I need to see if the TAD ME1 is suitable for the Lyngdorf. Is the TAD warmish or dry. If it is warmish, like the Harbeth, then I will can go with the Lyngdorf.  If the Lyngdorf and the TAD are not good synergy and I need room correction, the Micromega M-One maybe something to revisit. This is based on @audiotroy  statement on the quietness of the Micromega. Another option is not to buy the TAD because it is too big.

I have the opportunity to buy a USED Harbeth with 2 year warranty from a local dealer who will allow me to test this at HOME with my Peachtree Nova 150. I have not decided on doing this because there is another local dealer that has the Harbeth, TAD, and KEF Ref1 all available for demo at his store. Though I already know what the great KEF Ref1 can do. I will decide which local dealer to deal with after I get my treatments in place and test the LS50 with the Peachtree Nova.

A slight complication on the Lyngdorf is that I read somewhere that room treatments are not recommended with the Lyngdorf. This was only the opinion of 1 person (dealer?). Guys on the A'gon Lyngdorf thread say this is not a true statement.  I have contacted Lyngdorf directly today to get their feedback.

BTW - my musical tastes run the gamut. I only mentioned the head banger rock groups because they were what I was enjoying as I was posting on this thread. My tastes run from Jazz, Funk, Soul, Rap, Rock, Electronic, Jayhawk's like Country, Reggae, and recently a lot of music from outside of North America. As I write this, I am listening to Rick James Street Songs Deluxe Edition and loving it (but I need some treatments in this room ASAP).

On the subject of the 30.2 being much better than the Graham 5/9, I respectfully totally disagree, heard the 30.1, bought the 5/9.
To me the Harbeth projected the midrange too much, too much in my face so to speak, the Graham seam better as a hole, with better bass and for me the voices sounded more realistic, but they have to stand half a meter or more from the walls.

Yysantabarbera man you are all over the place. 

Please consider that you have a difficult room most of your  demos will be  in stores with much larger spaces then what you have. 

A dual concentric speaker is your ideal remedy for less then optimal positioning and work like magic for nearfield listening.

The Kef ls 50 versus  a Kef  Ref 1 vs a Tad Me 1

Is like comparing a Ford Mustang vs a Ford Gt vs a Ferrari.

The Ref 1 are amazing speakers that are a huge improvement over the Ls 50.

I wouldn't worry that you may have a pair of Blades in your future as they are a huge improvement over Ref 1 or Tad Me 1.

If your baseline is Thin Lizzy live then you need a system that will scale and punch with great extension in the treble unless you want a dead electric guitar

We have a client with the Ref 1 with Naim Nac 272 250Dr combo and it is exactly what you crave. The Naim gear has tremendous punch.,

Consider first room size and postioning 

Kef, Tad, and Atc scm 19 are three speakers that are derived from the concepts of what makes a professional monitor. 

Wish you could fly out to our shop we could make it so easy for you to see where we are comming from.

Dave and Troy 
Audio Doctor NJ

Ohm Walsh 1000 or the Super Sound Cylinder for a small room. No need for room correction just put a good amp in front of them. 

https://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/forum/the-basic-facts-about-harbeth-owning-use/77421-model-choic...

I was reading the Harbeth forum and came across this thread (includes a post by the designer Alan Shaw). Seems the front port on the Harbeth does not really make placement of the Harbeth any more flexible closer to the rear wall in a small room. It does not matter whether front or rear port. I am no expert just the messenger here. 

Anyways, just doing some research on Harbeth while I get ready to demo these speakers.

After two weeks of tests I need to say that such big speakers as JBL 4367 sound excellent even in my small room (13x18x8). Much better than previous B&W 803 Matrix S2. Of course after full acoustic adaptation of the room.

Great info in this thread.  +1 to the YG Carmel 2s mentioned on first page in a small/med room. Not much distance needed behind or to their sides. Very slim. Currently use them in a 15 x 25 x 9 room and they still fill out the room w/ assistance from a Jbl fathom sub.

I am currently listening to Siamese Dream by the Smashing Pumpkins. This one hurt my ears right now with the KEF LS50 and Peachtree Nova 150 in my office. One of the few recordings I will tolerate even though it is fatiguing.

Once the GIK panels arrive this recording is the first one I will play to see if the acoustics have improved.

BTW - I have an eclectic taste in music. I just happen to be in a hard rock listening mode the last few weeks.

Jim,
 Thin Lizzy. Wow, does that bring back memories! Went to one of their concerts back in the mid 70's. Totally awesome!

a few facts, look at the frequency plots for any Vandersteen speaker, they are done at 1 meter, at the wavelengths we are dealing with they get cohesive immediately! with the possible exception of the mid to midbass and in your room the wave will get crunched anyway..just physics....Next look at the impulse response, a dual concentric driver does not ensure time alignment, period. Physically aligning the driver voice coils is a good start. A steep slope filter puts all that out the window in a hurry, your ear is VERY sensitive to phase and is hardwaired to reptilian part of brain that locates threats. Time, Phase and spatial info critical to locating threats, frequency response, not so much.
But the other speakers you are considering, those are excellent also.
Different flavors , I get that as at any given time I own 7-10 pair of speakers....and I do a bit of field recording work so near field monitoring is the norm. I have heard most of the TAD line, local to you in as much as CA is ever local. You will notice I never bad mouth anything, well maybe ROON EQ is a first....ha. Sounds like you could easy host ROON core on one of your big remote servers, just lock down IP adresses so it can find and refind everything...it is a bit wonky in that department. 

Brooks, Sunny, Randy, Excel are all super fine. Good recovery!

have fun !!!!! enjoy the quest, toddler quality time, Thin Lizzy....dont ruin your hearing.....

@audiotroy Thanks for the additional feedback.

My audio magazine research into the Harbeth SH:5+ also indicates it is a good speaker at all volume levels. It is also supposed to have good off-axis sound. I will definitely test these 2 aspects because there are very important for my situation. There is some doubt in my mind if they are high resolution enough for me but the demo will tell.

My comments on the Micromega are based on a review of it from an Australian audio mag. That guy commented on the fan. However, I will take your word for it that you guys have not heard it. Maybe the reviewer’s testing was outside the bounds of normal listening (stress testing it?). Like I said on the phone I appreciate your knowledge given here and I have learned a lot from it.

I am going to have a listen to the TAD ME1 in Los Angeles with the Luxman 509x. I have dealer, Excel Audio, who I started an email dialogue a year ago on the Luxman units and he also has been great at giving audio advice. I am thinking I may also do the Harbeth demo there because of the Luxman 509x unit. I would lose out on a home demo of an used Harbeth unit but there are other advantages.

I also have had a fantastic experience at Brooks Berden in LA, demoing the fabulous Magico A3 and Mark Levinson gear. The guys there are super knowledgeable.

Chances are I will get some gear from all 3 of these great audio folks mentioned in this post.

The GIK Acoustics room treatments are expected to arrive in about 10 days.

Dear Yyzstanabarbera, 

I really enjoyed our conversation, in the time that has elasped I forgot that this post is from you. 

I will recap a few points, we have heard the TAD ME1 at two different shows, and in each show we came away very impressed by the musicallity and high resolution and slightly sweet sound of the ME1  we are so intrigued that we are considering bringing them in.

If you are interested we would bring in a pair to compare with the Kef Ref 1.

Are they that much better, personally no, they just seem to offer a different take on the dual concentric design with a different profile.

As stated before, a point source works better than almost any other design for a small room, a first order sloped loudspeaker generally needs greater distance for the overlapping frequencies to gel into a coherent sound field, a point source guarantees that all sounds arrive in time and from the same place. A dual concentric is favored in many recording studios as monitors because the design focuses sound to the listener even in off access positions, many studios use Tannoy's for this reason.

The Micromega is dead silent, we have never heard the fans come on in our demos, if the fans are noisy that was a defective unit.

We know of no other high performance integrated with suce a fantastic feature set our amazing sound quality. The MARS room correction has been lauded as a very effective way of improving less than optimal rooms and is less intrusive than many other DSP based room correction systems.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to PM us. 

You have a great post going on, one of the most important things in low level listening is lowering noise floor, which you are doing with acoustic tunning, the next is high resolution loudspeakers, KEF, TAD, Magico are all loudspeakers that will sound fanatastic at less than big volume levels, the third is room correction, which can alleviate nasty frequency response humps which obscure details.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Wow I wrote a lot here. Sorry about that.

Before anyone starts getting upset with Audiotroy understand that I, the OP, appreciate his feedback. I actually spoke with Audiotroy (Dave) on the phone a month or 2 before I moved and he told me that the KEF Reference 1 and Micromega sound great in a small space (I did not know room dimensions then). His feedback on the Micromega gave me incentive to look into the Lyngdorf because I have trouble with the idea of a Micromega cooling fan in a small space (as mentioned in the beginning of this thread). In my space I have 3 computers that are dead silent; five computer screens now and at one time 7. I also have made holes in the walls to get access to noisy computer servers that I have in other rooms (so I cannot hear them in the office). I have gone to great pains to make this room very quiet and I would be real upset if I were to hear a fan come on. Maybe it would be drowned out in the music but I got strong hearing and I would likely notice the slightest fan noise.

If I went to my safe fall back plan, I would be buying the KEF Ref1 from Audiotroy. I have heard it so many times at shows I do not need a store demo. I would say the chances of me eventually getting the KEF Ref1 are still about 50% because I know it will fit the room, relative cost, and I know I will like it. However, as I mentioned in the beginning of this thread. I am trying not to eventually have 3 KEF speakers in my home. If the Lyngdorf is not an ideal match for the KEF, as Audiotroy is stating (same thing also nagging me), the Luxman 509x would be a good candidate because it is warmish sounding and it has tone controls. I know that tone controls are a non-starter for a lot of people here but I think in my situation they have a place. The KEF Ref1 will likely not have that much issues in my space after treatments so maybe DSP is not needed. Another integrated amp that may work is the new Mark Levinson 5805 (no tone controls though). It is cheaper (MSRP $8500) and has a built-in DAC.

Saying all of this. Now that Dave has given the TAD ME1 such a glowing endorsement, even over his own speaker, I will definitely give it strong consideration when I go to audition it in Los Angeles. My audiophile buddy was also raving about the TAD ME1 along with pokey77. When I looked at photos of the ME1, I was thinking how much better can it be over the KEF Ref1. Both speakers have a concentric driver combo (which I like a lot) and a separate bass driver, with the TAD costing a heck of a lot more. However, with so many people coming to the same conclusion, that it is better then the KEF Ref1, I will give it serious consideration.

@audiotroy I appreciate the advice. I have learned from A’gon posters, especially you, that the synergy between components in a system is paramount. Some of the posters on this thread have spoken glowingly on the Harbeth SHL5+. That speaker is supposed to sound a little warmer than my traditional cup of tea. However, that is OK, maybe I need to expand my horizons. I will know soon enough after I demo them at a store and then at home (if I like them). The Lyngdorf is likely a good match for the Harbeth. I actually got feedback that this is indeed a good synergistic match. The A3 concerns me being paired with the Lyngdorf. I am not so sure if they are a good match because the A3 has been described by many posters on A’gon as requiring warmer sounding electronics. However, I know the A3 won’t fit into my room without some sort of DSP or similar sort of adjustments. The A3 is a Hail Mary pass with my room.

I was looking into big speakers with active room bass correction. The 2 I know are the Persona 9H and the Vandersteen Quattro Wood CT that was discussed on this thread. I got an email from Vandersteen company about the Quattro Wood CT in my small room and they said MAYBE and they did not sound too confident.

@tomic601 I have a Sonnare MicroRendu so I could in theory move my music server running ROON to another room. I have a few super powerful hardware servers (noisy) in other parts of the house. However the current machine in the office is silent with most default operating services turned off. I will play with the ROON equalization to see what it can do.

@mr_m I heard the Vandersteen Treo CT within 1/2 hour after listening to the A3 (at a different store) and I thought it was good but it would have the same issues as the A3 in my room. Your room has a little bit of extra space that makes all the difference in the world. Take a look at the photos I have posted of my room and you will see that it is small. I have 0 space between me and the wall directly behind me.

Correction. room is 16 feet in length, not 16 inches.:-)

Vandersteen Treo Ct's work great in a smaller room. I have my pair in a room that's 14' X 16". they are 18 inches away from the front wall, and 38 inches from the side walls. Speakers are approx. 8 feet apart, center to center and 9 feet 6 inches from the listening chair. Still have almost 4 feet behind the chair of open space to the wall. The sound is excellent. IMO.

I ran a fairly strict a/b on ROON EQ vs none to tame an issue at 80 HZ and was not at all pleased with it’s overall impact on SQ. Of course your results may vary...
whatever you are running ROON core on need be up to the processing task also

But since you have it, why not try after you get room sorted...? I also think experiments like that help with developing critical listening skills

iF you have pre out / power amp in on the future integrated, you could use a phase correct analog filter to roll off the very low base to counter room gain. so for example a Vandersteen M5-HP inserted and set correctly would help. This may allow for a larger speaker than otherwise contemplated....

In that small a room, I would stay away from anything with a cooling fan...

Yysantabarbera,

Been following this thread for a while here is where we would weigh in with your quest.

We would not recommend any speaker with very deep bass below 30hz as the room is really too small even with room treatments and electronic room correction you will have difficulty getting clean bass if the response is too low.

2: The best compact loudspeaker we have heard is the TAD ME 1, we are not yet a dealer for them but liked them so much we are contemplating bringing them in. Are they a lot better than the Ref 1 we think they are a bit more magical in terms of the midrange and refinement.

A point source dual concidental loudspeaker works wonders in less then optimal room’s due to the quasi horn loading which creates a very large sweet spot, and can help for off access listening postions.

3: We would recommend the Micromega M150 over the Lyngdorf, the Micromega sounds absolutely stunning with a class A/B amplifier that has a powerful punchy bass response, a warm midrange, and a huge dimensional sound stage and of course the Micromega M150 has MARS Room correction which is a subtitle but effective room correction system. The Lyngdorf is a class D  digital amplifier very similar to the NAD M32 which we have on display, the sound of the M32 is very clean but lacks the midrange liquidity and the involving musicality of the Micromega. The Lyngdorf and the M32  works best with much warmer loudspeakers rather than the cleaner faster sound of the TAD's, Magico or the KEF which seems to be the sound that you like

Personally we heard the A3 and think the TAD is a more musical version of that high resolution sound.

We do like the idea of the passive treatments as room correction can help but can not take the place of passive treatments, the combination of active room correction plus passive tuning makes even a less then optimal room into a very good sounnding one.

In the 2016 New York Audio show we were using the Paradigm Persona 9H a speaker with active bass correction, when we added in room tunning pannels the sound was fantastic.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

@yyzsantabarbara,
i do have same size room with you and using harbeth M30.1 ,My set up is triangle with 7ft distance between speaker and the seat .
to get you an idea is in my system pics .

I have KEF Ref 1 and 3s and both are in rooms 12 x 15 with 8.5 foot ceiling heights. They sound great. I run both with tube amps that produce 38 watts per channel and that is plenty. I tried Electrocompaniet solid state AW400 watt mono blocks with the Ref 3s, since I kept reading people on forums claim they need lots of power to bring out the bass. I ended up finding this statement not true. I am back to my tube mono blocks that produce the 38 watts per channel in triode mode. The sound goes just as deep with the tubes but sounds so much better to my ears in the mid and upper frequency ranges that the little extra control in the bass lost with the tubes is not really noticed. The sound stage is deeper, wider and more focused also with the tubes.

@leotis  Thanks for the feedback. Exactly the type of info I was looking for.  I was thinking this over and I think i should buy the Lyngdorf 3400. With the Lyngdorf in the mix,  I will have room treatments,  DSP, and an equalizer via ROON as options to tame the room. 

My buddy with the Spendor tells me that the TAD ME1 would be the way he would go.

That’s a small room.If you have full range speakers that put out much bass it wouldn’t matter if you listen at low volume. the bass/mid/treble balance will still be overpowered by the bass. I have an 11’ x 13’ x 8’ room and Revel F206 were just right but Revel F208 were too much. With content that was light on bass the 208s were wonderful. But anything with significant bass content was unpleasant. Currently using Revel M126Be bookshelf which go down to 50 Hz and with the small room size I get enough bass reinforcement that it sounds effectively full range. I’ve measured it with XTZ room analyzer and it is plus 8 or 9 dB in the 40 Hz range.The Magico A1 doesn’t look like a thumper so it would probably work fine. KEF Reference 1 would put out all the bass you’d want IMO.

@mushka Here is a quote from my buddy about Spendor D7 | Room Size | GIK:Treatments

"They want you to stay as far away as possible from the back wall. Which I would love to do but with a small room 11x13 is simply not possible. I was too close to the speakers and could not enjoy the music at all. Too bright and loud.

I then consulted with my dealer in San Francisco who told me to cover the back wall with Gik 242 2” thick panels or even the 6 inch panels without diffuser plate. So I have 2 thick panels in the middle and 3 reg panels on the back wall almost covering the back wall. I got the largest size ones. Then I could move the couch closer to the back wall. This is a fake attempt to make the wall disappear in the back behind you. I would still want a larger room so I can be away from back wall and away from speakers and speakers are away from front wall. I also have the free stand bass panels on each side between the speaker and listening chair. And I have two very old bass traps in the corners behind the speakers.

I must say that the GIK stuff makes a huge difference. When I got the system and it was broken in for months it was still unlistenable. Lot of echo and brightness in the room But with room treatments everything changed. And it tamed down the room. I love GIK products. I added few at a time due to cost and to try to experiment and fine tune the room with placement of traps and speaker and seat positioning experiments.

I do feel that even though spender is the smallest floor stander I could find at the time. It’s still a little too powerful for the room I have. I think spendor will open up a lot more in a medium sized room. Not a small sized room. "

yyzSantaBarbara:
I my room, the wall behind me opens up to the closet space and I also have a door entrance that I can open. So my issues are slightly different my my buddies.

Or Vicoustic panels or Synergistic Research HFTs for room treatment.  I eliminated all my diffusing/absorbing 2X4 and other panels in a 25X20X9.5 room with 32 HFTs of various types, mostly placed as instructed.  Worked great on a big room.  Probably very effective on a small room.

@yyzsantabarbara

I never considered GIK acoustic panels before. Maybe I should try them instead of jumping to Lyngdorf or DSP’s.
Can't wait for your room treatments pictures.

@pokey77 The A3 is not the best speaker I heard with regards to sound but it does 2 things that are real important to me. It does not sound like the sound is coming from the speaker (it disappears) and the sound stage is large and realistic. Nothing as good as the KEF Blade in this or any regard but pretty good nevertheless.

l also like the sound of the Vivid speakers better but they are too expensive (including new smaller Kiva line) and the Giya are side firing. There were some Maggie like panels (a few different brands) I heard at shows that I liked more than the A3 but they were huge, So the A3 is a good compromise for something to listen to while I work.

I appreciate your suggestion of the Harbeth for listening while I work. I am excited to hear that because it is going to sound different from what I have heard in the past and it is also supposed to sound pleasing. Different from what I have considered my fav’s in the past but I like a lot of different things. The front and side port are something that I have been thinking about favorably for my space.

I actually was not initially impressed by the Magico’s that much. I heard a lot of different Magico models $50K+ (via LA Audio Society). I would never have spent that much on them because they did not do much for me relative to their price. However, at a LA Audio Show a few years ago there were 2 vendors playing Magico S3MKII and I really liked it. I spent a long time at those 2 rooms. That experience made me want to consider the cheaper A3 for an office setting. I am glad I did because the A3 reminded me of the S3MKII sessions. Though the S3MKII sounded a lot better to me.

I must say that my initial experience with GIK has been tremendous. The guy that remotely helped me (Mike Major) was a sound engineer/musician and we had an great talk about sound and rooms. I learned a ton in that short call. I was also very happy to see them come under my estimated budget of $1K. The shipping of panels to California was $230, so if you live close to Georgia, the cost of what I am trying is much cheaper.

@andy8400 Your post got me thinking and I realized I already have an equalizer. I use ROON for my digital playback (about 80% of my playback rest analog) and ROON has a DSP feature. I am using the upsampling feature but never tried the equalizer. I am going to figure out how that works over the Christmas holidays.

@mushka I will send an email to my buddy and post back here using your screen id tags for you get an notification.

The great thing about the SHL5plus and the ME-1s is that the 5plus has a front port and the ME-1s have a diffused side port so neither should interact with the side walls in a meaningful way.

My own thoughts are the 509X should be an easy resell.

I've heard the Magico A3s several times and have never been impressed like you.

Can't wait to hear about your room treatments. GIK is supposed to be a very economical solution.

@yyzsantabarbara  
I am interested in using Spendor speakers in a small room.  Do you remember what type of room treatments your friend who owns the D7s used, and if they came from GIK Acoustics?
Thank you

@kstirman I have narrowed down my list to Harbeth SHL5+ (home demo), KEF Reference 1, maybe TAD Me1 (price issue here), and Magico A3 (now that I can have a home demo of the A3 after treatments). 

The Magico A3 has a very large soundstage, the sound separates itself away from the speaker,  and does lot of things I like. The A3 also has a slim form factor, about as wide as the KEF LS50 (or only slightly more). This is the speaker I want to make work in this room. The others are fall back options which I am sure will work after the room treatments (+ maybe Lyngdorf).

The Harbeth SHL5+, KEF R1, and TAD Me1 are all available for me to demo in the same store (they also have the LS50). 

You mentioned Spendor, I do not think the Spendor will suit me, though I did like the Spendor D7 a lot at my buddies house. I cannot see myself owning that one for long term use.

Typically small room means positioning the speakers near the walls. Most speakers are not designed for this sort of placement. I can think of one exception, Audio Note, which are designed for corner placement and, can sound wonderful, and are easy to drive, opening the door to just about any amplifier, including low wattage designs.

There are also speakers that are less affected by near-wall placement, the most obvious being horn designs. 

If there's a country that, generally speaking, produces speakers for smaller rooms, that's definitely England. Designs from ProAc, Harbeth, Spendor, Audio Note, Rega, KEF, etc. might help to narrow down the list of possibilities.

@paullb Thanks for that feedback. Out of the 4 integrated’s I have narrowed it down too only the Luxman 509x has tone controls. I would imagine that the Lyngdorf takes the concept of tone controls to another level. I have chosen these units for consideration because of quality and they should also be rather easy to resell. I am going to try these first before I try an equalizer though that was in my thoughts.

I just sold my older office system, Audience 1+1 V3 | Benchmark DAC3 | Benahcmark AHB2. They were easy to sell because they are popular and it did not hurt that they are not very expensive. The integrated’s on my list maybe a touch harder to resell, due to cost, they are all very popular units.

BTW - when I measured my room again for the GIK treatments I found out I have 1/2 foot more length and width. Not much but every little bit helps. Also opening up the door when playing music is also a great way to reduce the bass.

I have floor standing speakers in a similar but even smaller listening room. Along with simple acoustic panels and carpeting, my main solution is the insertion of a 31 band equalizer. I use it less to "equalize" and more as notch filters (which is still equalization), especially in the bass region. Some for treble peak reflections. An equalizer may be an "impure" injection of more electronics to some but a small room is the real problem and can really benefit from its use. It does for me.

@dmbwire One reason I jumped in quickly to room treatments was because of a friend of mine who has a room slightly bigger than mine with Spendor D7’s. His system sounded rather good with the treatments. Prior to the treatments he said his sound was really disappointing, though I never heard the room without treatments. He has much longer audiophile lineage than myself so I took his advice to heart about placing a lot of value on treatments.

The treatments I just purchased include 9 items. The comparable item in my list to your treatment (panel directly behind me) costs $75. So I imagine that is somewhat close to the cost of those designer blankets.

Having my kid when I am older has given me the opportunity be able to spend 24 x 7 with my kid. Which is the best thing I have ever done.

I hung a couple of designer blankets on the wall behind my listening position (2.5 feet behind chair) which solved my room issues. Cost $0. 

I am in the same “boat” as you with the exception of the toddler. My office measurements are the same as yours except I have 12’6” length. I’m running McIntosh seperates (MC152 and C47) and B&W 805d3 speakers. Sources are Oppo UDP-205 and MacBook Pro to stream Tidal Hi-Fi. Sounds great at low levels, fantastic at moderate or can chase you out of the room if you so choose; still great sounding. Bigger not necessarily better however it’s a preference thing. Good luck and enjoy Christmas with the toddler. Those were the best days. 

I just heard back form the Southern Cal Magico dealer I went to demo the A3. They allow home demo's of the speaker. This was some welcome news. Now i will know for certain that whatever purchase decision I make I will have zero doubt about it.

@yyzsantabarbara 

Will be interested to see photos of your GIK-treated room.

I've heard the Marten Django L a number of times. I can tell you the best I ever heard them was in a system with Zesto that was many multiples of the speaker cost. Heard them with several different CD players and they just weren't very good no matter what we did. But put a table in the equation and they are really nice. If you are thinking the SHL5+ is big for your room, then the Django L will be too big I'd think.

good for you on the GIK deal :-)
you can measure after treatments..
i like Studio Six Digital Audio Tools RTA runs on Ipad w calibrated microphone, or poor mans low frequency version is Radio Shack analog SPL meter and free Vandertones download, this might help you tame tge closet!!!!

A couple of things mentioned to me by the sound engineer at GIK Acoustics. The removal of the closet doors in my room has made a nasty bass trap. He always recommend closing such spaces but, I of course, cannot.

The simple fact of opening up my room entrance door will also make the room sound much bigger. Once my toddler goes to pre-school in January 2019 I will be able to do that.

@djfst158 You read my mind about the intermedia sized model I am looking at it that way too. Once the room treatments are in place I will listen to my LS50's for a while and then try a few bigger speakers.

@tatyana6986 With regard to the Blades. It is "different strokes for different folks". In my opinion the Blades are my all-time favorite speaker. The things I like in reproduced sound are evident in the Blades. Holographic image, large soundstage, pin-point imaging. However, the Blades are for another day and another system (living room).

Something like the Marten Django L would work well.  They are always paired with Zests audio gear at shows and sound wonderful in smaller hotel rooms.  The fuller size XL's would be too much in the small room, so the L's and other similar manufacturers that have an intermediate sized speaker would work.  Sonus Faber Olympica II would also be a consideration (in-between the Olympics I monitor and the larger III model).  The companies that offer an intermediate model would be what I'd look into.  

I do not understand why the Kef blades speakers are recommended. Plenty of much better speakers out there for that price. From direct experience I could name quite a few!

@crosstrek I conversed with someone on A'Gon who had the KEF R1 and the Lyngdorf in a room around my size and he was raving about the quality of sound he had.

I wanted to try to correct my room outside of DSP before I try DSP. Along that vein, I just completed a transaction with  GIK acoustics for room treatments. They looked at my A'Gon photos and gave me a quote. I called them up and we spoke for about 45 minutes. In the end I spent  a little under $1000.00 (including shipping).  I will have these items a little after Christmas.

With the treated room as a baseline I will try to do some home demos. The guy on the GIK side mentioned to me that I may have more options in speakers now than I was considering before.

I will post pictures of the treated room.