Big speakers in small room at moderate volume levels

Audiovector S1 Avantgarde Arréte is another favourite. Preferrably crossed at 100 to subs (as no small monitor really has capacity to play good bass in a normal room).

My recommendation would be to Place the Workstation in the best and desired Position.
Then build around the listening position.
Set up in a like manner as a mixing console.
TuneTot sounds amazing for entirely uncorrelated size.
$7000 plus used.
Paired with Octave V80 at RMAF 2018 Demo.
Will work in a smallish room / impress in a larger space.
Checkout Wilson Site and Analog Planet for info.
Currently my local HiFi shop has Featured AR Reference With Sasha.
Room 35'x20' wide (approximate) with mains spaced wide.
Tip Top Sound.
Paradigm and Luxman are on track for no disappointment.

It has been a while since I updated my quest for my office system. I have been busy with work and life but I have not ignored the advice posted here. 

One set of advice was to give a monitor speaker a second chance, specifically the TAD Me1. Well I did that in Los Angeles this week  after I dropped my dad of at LAX so he could fly back to Toronto (YYZ). I also wanted to hear the Luxman gear that I was always thinking would be a good candidate for me.

The posters here were correct, the TAD Me1 is a great monitor speaker, superb. It also has limited bass but enough bass I would think for my room. The demo was in a large space and the bass was not helped because the walls were not close, but in my room the bass will get reinforced by the room. However, the big deal is that I do not think I need DSP with the TAD Me1, unlike the other floor standers I am considering.

I asked my dad to go to the store in Toronto that carries both the Persona 3F and Yamaha NS 5000 and give his opinion (maybe next week). I read the posts (on another site) of someone would had gone to this store and compared both and he was not enamored with the Yamaha, which is surprising relative to all the glowing reviews.

One thing I did finalize during the recent demo was deciding on which amp to get. I have been mentioning since the beginning of this thread that the Luxman m900u could be the dark horse candidate. After finally hearing it with the Luxman c900u preamp and a Luxman CD/DAC the decision was easy. I am getting the m900u. I also heard the Luxman 509x integrated  but the seperates were too good.

I do like this reviewer and his review on the Luxman m900u is spot on.
https://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/838-luxman-m-900u-stereo-mono-amplifier

My 3 speaker choices are:

1) Paradigm Persona 3F
2) TAD Me1 (TAD raised price from $10k to $15K again, ridiculous) 
3) Yamaha NS 5000 (should be in USA this summer)

Dropping the Vivid Kaya 45 speaker from consideration since I don't want to deal with side firing woofers.

I have not figured out which preamp, other than the Luxman c900u,  would work well. This could come down to cost and the number of boxes. If my lottery ticket stock investment comes through it will be the Luxman c900u and separate DAC.

I have not done my DSP shootout yet due to funds taking longer to magically appear. However, during this time I have been conversing with some folks who have owned the Lyngdorf and the Anthem. My conversation with the dealer on the Linn Selekt had put it at the bottom of the list due to the lack of "high quality" analog input support. They also have no intention of comping out with a better analog board, like Lyngdorf has done.

The summery from all these discussions with A'gon users was that the Anthem STR preamp is likely going be my choice. The feature set of the Anthem is fantastic along with the 2 analog XLR inputs that can go direct without DSP processing (as an option). If the sound quality of the DSP is the same across the 3 units the Anthem is the easy choice.  The Lyngdorf as a preamp is great and it has better support for the analog inputs (compared to the Linn) so I am going to give that unit a good listen. However, the amp section of the Lyngdorf is out in my consideration (kind of wasting money there if I get it).

Now the choice of the speakers is also coming more into focus.

1) Paradigm Person 3F (can be had from $6300 - $10000). This is my first choice and an Anthem STR pre + amp + 3F is what a lot of folks have and they all love it. The smallish forward facing woofers on the 3F maybe better than side firing woofers.

2) The Vivid Kaya 45 is one I know i would like. I liked the Kaya 90 a lot. However, the side firing woofers maybe a bad choice in my small room. Anybody have an opinion on side firing woofers. I had some NHT 2.5 that had side firing woofers on them and they needed some space on the side (20 years ago).

https://www.soundstageultra.com/index.php/equipment-menu/865-vivid-audio-kaya-45-loudspeakers

3) The Yamaha NS5000, I have a feeling this is too big a speaker for the room, but this speaker is now STRONGLY rumored to be coming to the USA. At least I could have an easier time auditioning it. My understanding is the chemical is used in the exterior lacquer needs to pass California import rules. So they may change the lacquer used. Don't quote me on this, but this was the feedback I got from a few guys with knowledge on the Yamaha.

So if anyone is interested in chiming in on the side firing woofer and a small room please do so. Remember the room is acoustically treated.

@oldtiger I listened to the Lynbgdorf 2170 (a old demo unit so burned in) and I loved the preamp section. I did not like the amp section and used an external SimAudio amp to hear the beauty of the preamp section. I did not listen to the DSP, but that is in the future shootout.

Room Perfect is amazing!  It will benefit you when you can  move to a bigger room. I recommend Lindorff  for this reason! 

@gosta In my posts on this tread I have been going back and forth stating I need to get a stand mount or floor stander. The reason being when I started setting up the LS50’s in my office the sound was fatiguing. So I was under the impression that l would be resigned to another small stand mount. However, as I have added acoustic treatments and done the other things mentioned I realize that I can get a small floor stander in this room. I have no doubt about that now.

One thing I will get is a preamp with DSP as a safety net device to integrate the floor stander in the office. I have mentioned 3 DSP units that I am considering based on feature set and ease of DSP use. They are Lyngdorf 3400, Linn Selekt DSM, and the Anthem STR. I will be doing a DSP shootout soon at an audio deal who has a small conference room with glass panels. We will put the rather large Paradigm Persona 5F in there and fire away. That dealer is actually very interested in hearing the results themselves.

I recently found out that the Linn unit will not have a "high quality" analog board (it does have an analog board), I also have a tuner and SACD player. So the Linn drops down a lot in consideration. I would have to jump up to the much more expensive Linn units to get the better analog board. So the Lyngdorf and the Anthem STR are the front runners now based on feature set. I would be throwing money away with the Lyngdorf because when I auditioned it I did not like the amp section but I did love the preamp section. We did not test DSP that day. The Anthem has the perfect feature set and if the sound is within range of the Lyngdorf then that would be a great choice. I also heard an all digital setup of the Linn + DSP in a big room and it sounded very good.

The Audience 1+1 V3 is an amazing sounding speaker. It sounds better than the KEF LS50. So why sell that and keep the KEF’s? It was because the imaging was driving me crazy when I sat off-axis, the LS50 was better at this. Now after tuning my room with the treatments and other things, I think I maybe able to get the Audience imaging fixed but at that time I did not know how to fix it. The thing that is amazing about the Audience is the clarity you get in the sound. It is actually a bit like the Vivid speaker, maybe even better. You sometimes felt like you were in the studio with the musicians, especially with my Benchmark AHB2 amp.

I wrote a bit more detail on the Audience to someone else that asked. I will see where that is and send you.

Alright, I can see it’s time for a floorstander :-)

Because you are sitting behind a desk, and your room isn’t that large I think you really need some room correction. I have the same situation.
A small unit that is a really great tool and a step into the RC world is the Paradigm PW amp with sub out and ARC2 RC system. Works very fine. I prefer it to the Lyngdorf because you can adjust the result, you can easily play with several adjustment files and you get to see the frequency curve before and after (true or not..). Integrates subs very fine and it’s a small cost. Find out what it can do to your present listening. It has power enough to drive the KEF 201/2 as near-fields. To get the ARC2 RC system you need to buy an Anthem or Paradigm amp or processor.

To your fullrange list I would add the PMC Fact 12 and why not the Tannoy DC 10T (for another presentation). The new Yamaha on your list is very exciting. Actually I’m an ATC fan....so why not the 150 SL... (they easily disappear in the room :-))

How are the Audience 1+1 V3? I’ve been having thoughts about them.

@gosta My speakers in the last 10 years due to lack of space:

1) AudioengineUSA 2 (maybe 5 years)
2) Thiel SCS4 (2 years)
3) KEF LS50 (3 years)
4) Audience 1+1 V3 (9 months)

I finally have some space and I will not buy another stand mount. Just sick and tired of them.

Since you’re so happy with the LS50, why don’t you try the Ref 1?
I’m right now listening to the 201/2 model in a near-field setup and crossed at 100Hz. It delivers a huge, very dynamic and very detailed/transparent sound with maybe the best mid and upper bass I’ve had. The troublesome bass solo on Rickie Lee Jones "Easy money" is just fine. Gregory Porter the same. You can "see" his a big guy...The 201 tweeter can be a little tuff on lesser recordings (I like that - more live/true feeling). The Ref 1 more polished I'm sure.

The Treo were a little more mellow on the top end than the Vivid Kaya 90. I go into auditioning audio gear with the mindset of "one good thing about music, when it hits you, you feel no pain". I am looking for an emotional experience. I am not really listening to speakers but music. I feel I had the most enjoyable time with the speakers in the following order:

1) Vivid Kaya
2) Paradigm Persona 5F
3) Magico A3
4) Vandersteen Treo CT

The Yamaha NS5000 maybe more like the Vandersteen from what I have read. I have not heard that yet but am hoping too if and when it arrives to the USA this summer. All reviews are saying what a great musical experience it is to listen to that speaker.

I used to own Revel Salon1 speakers for a long time. I spent a good chunk of money on them. However, I am finding that my KEF LS50’s give me a more enjoyable listening experience. The cost difference between the 2 speakers is massive but I just can connect better with the KEF’s. I really have no way to explain in words why. The KEF Blades have been my favorite speaker so far but that will not fit my office.

The Paradigm Persona 3F will be reduced by 20% in Feb 2019 for a sale so I may consider saving money and buy that.

Listening to Fela Kuti. This guy is a musical genius. I cannot believe it took me so long to discover this guy.

What SQ differences between the Treo's and the Kaya's did you notice.
Bob

The new less goofy looking one. They still look rather odd but there is an audio reason for that so I can live with it. They sound great but are very expensive.

https://vividaudio.com/loud-speakers/kaya/

I heard the Kaya 90 the same day I heard the Vandersteen Treo CT.

BTW - The Magico A3 is going up in price to $12,300

Vivid

the red ones ?

Narrowed it down to 3 speakers

Paradigm Persona 3F (love the Persona 5F not heard the smaller 3F)
Vivid Kaya 45 (a floor stander that will fit a small room)
Yamaha NS5000 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeUW-hBtc8Q

I will be going to a dealer DSP preamp shootout once I get funds together. I will use the new preamp and amp with the KEF LS50's for the short term. I will wait until the Yamaha hits the USA before I buy speakers because I want to audition the NS5000.

Depending on the DSP preamp I select I am looking at the following amps:

Anthem STR
Krell XD 175
Jeff Rowland M535
Coda #8
T+A HV 3000 (available demo unit for $10K)

@digsmith 

I'd like to recommend you to try and find a pair af the ATC C1 subs to add to your SCM 19v2. They play perfect bass and should be a great compliment. Would like those 19s myself. Do you have the passives or actives.

This weekend borrowed the Monitor Audio Studio stand amounts. Not familiar to the Monitor Audio sound, but these are maybe the most unforgiving speakers I've listened to. No windows or curtains. No added warmth here. Good to have when the recording itself is a little too much. Subs necessary from 80-100 Hz. Easy to integrate wihle they don't have much below. Have taken the driver technology direct from the top MA range it says. Inexpensive.

Glad you like 12's gosta...the atc scm 19 v2 have been first monitor that has eliminated need for room correction...id think I would need a sub eventually...my room isn't much bigger as poster...smaller room has been the best over all listening experience yet...

@ yyzsantabarbara
got the ARC2 from before and it works very well with my desktop system to reduce all negative reflexes you have from the desk, pc monitors and so on. It’s really fun to listen into the mix when you sit very close. Hard to work though! My ATC SCM12 presents a fabulous sound (together with small REL subs) that I’m not shure the TAD can match :-). Always tries new monitors though. Recommend you a try with your KEF:s although I myself find them a little boring (less dynamics, no usable bass and hard to integrate with a sub, low SPL capacity). I have the active LS50 - possibly havn’t given it enough chances.

Don't know though how the ARC2 will work for longer listening distances.

Last night I removed my JBL 6328P monitors from the wardrobe and put them on top of my ATC150ASL in the movie/music room. I’ve had problem listening to the JBL’s as a near-field because they are so brutal. The drums really hurt you and they are a bit edgy (harsh) in the upper mids. Like pro monitors tends to be in general, because they are really a working tool and made to let you discover all faults in a recording.

Putting them higher up I thought would make the sound come from about the same height as the performers on the video. To get a more realistic presentation and fill the room better. Worked! It also took some edge of the speaker. I then started to work with the crossover and the parametric eq in my Yamaha surrond cx-a5000. Put the crossover for the svs-pb16 ultra sub up to 100hz (I normally use 60hz). Reduced -3db at 60hz and -2db at 125 hz to reduce some remaining bass thumbs (used the antimode sytem on the sub before that) and finally reduced -4db at 2,6 khz to make guitars, saxophones and harsh voices a little softer.

I was congratulated by my son to now give him the best concert sound ever!

You never know what you have before you tried to make the most out of it. Speakers, listening positioning and room treatment (manual and digital) is 90% of the sound. The rest just cherries on the pudding. That's my view.

have 5 Mission M Cube speakers, going to give those a try, 2 per channel on stereo...xmas present from a customer...best present in many years, one can never have enough speakers...more drivers the better..overlap says it all..

Small room I use JBL control 1 pro, amazing tone from such a small pair, 60wrms x 2 is more than enough.I have run various small boxes and some are way above the rest..budget forced jbl and i was more than happy.Still have a pair of retro swt1's, boxes in mint condition, which must be populated with some good drivers, skytronic 10's from the uk with MS tweeters and the mid is still to be decided.

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/kef-ls50-david-versus-jbl-4722-cinema-goliath-speaker-compari...

I think what I am hearing now with the LS50's is what the above article is showing with measurements. 

@gosta When I had my speakers on my desk I found that using the low cost isoacoustic stands helped a lot by elevating the speaker above the desk. It also angled the sound away from the desk. 

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the ARC2.

@tomic601 I will take a look at the Home Depot panels. I can walk to Home Depot so it will be easy to check out.

I am currently listening to Led Zeppelin’s debut and I was thinking why does this sound so good now. I know the acoustic panels made a huge difference but the sound seemed even better than expected. It tuned out I now have hi-res versions of Zeppelin. I do not recall when I got that but I can definitely hear the hi-res difference with this setup. I am also upsampling on ROON.

I may end up using this disc as my baseline for my speaker demos. I am curious how this album sounds on a speaker with more bass and resolution. The sound stage is not that deep with my Peachtree and LS50’s but I having a feeling that is available in the 1’s and 0’s.

Bought a used Anthem MRX510, with the ARC2, to use for my desk top system. Hope it will be a step up from the Paradigm PW AMP I used so far and been very satisfied with. The PW AMP has no digital in so I presume it makes an AD/DA conversion for the ARC2. Want to get rid of that. Eventually also a better amp even if I don't need five channels. Or, maybe I do....

Saw new pics and left a post. I'm glad you are getting closer to what you want.
B

Home Depot Owens Corning 703 4” deep panels in closet, get one box to start....

Portishead !!!
ya
i had Bauhaus on late, late.... fun

Now it is time to figure out what gear to get. First thing is to get a preamp that is DSP capable. I want something that has defeatable DSP and also good quality DSP. I do not need DSP with the KEF LS50’s. I may not with the TAD ME1 but the other speakers I am thinking of I likely need DSP help.

The speaker I want to fit into this room is the Yamaha NS 5000. Just because it would be interesting to own that speaker. The Persona 3F is high on the list but long term listening is uncertain. The Vandersteen Treo CT seems like it will now fit into the room. The Vivid Kaya 45 would be great for the room now but it may be too close to the KEF sound.

If I raise the cash that I am expecting then I will splurge a little on a demo amp (will keep quiet on this one). The store with the amp I want also has the Vandersteen and Vivid. So I will demo those 2 speakers if I have cash for the amp. If I do not get this $$ amp there are a few new amps coming out that I am interested in, the CODA #8, KRELL XD 125, and some older models. Amp will be easy to select.

I really don’t have too much more to add now until I demo the DSP preamps.

I have added photos of the new setup. I removed the CD rack from the room,it was in the way of the left side wall panel. The setup I have  is likely what most people with treatments have done. It has really transformed my room. The LS50s sound really impressive now. Well as impressive as it can with the Peachtree Nova 150. The gear is good (though not at low volume) but I am now looking to get to another level of sound with new gear. This existing system will go to a bedroom or some other room.

I would say for 19/20 songs I play the sound is non-fatiguing and checks of all the good things I want to hear. That 20th track sometimes gives a little bit of badness, usually a bit too much bass but sometimes a little bit of treble. This can be seen in Neil Young's HEART OF GOLD's harmonica (treble). Adjustments of the side panels have improved this harmonica greatly. It is not really a big deal, just not perfect.

Mike Major at GIK was the one responsible for this setup and panel choices so kudos to him. Highly recommended. He does think I can improve this room even more but I do not want to add too much more panels for aesthetic reasons. He suggested ceiling treatment and also to go to town on the closet because he says that is not a good area.

In a small room any small adjustment or change seems to be easy to spot. For example, I had a lot of CD cases lying on the ground while I moved the CD rack to another room. I decided to do some office work while the CD's lay on the ground and the music playing. That did not last too long. It was like ice picks in my right ear. I removed the CD's and gave my ears a rest. All was good after that.

Also notice I sit facing the left wall. Mike Major was saying this was also a reason my sound was so bad prior to treatments. My off-axis sitting position is no longer a problem. I am thinking of playing around with my speaker positioning now that the acoustics are controlled.

@yyzsantabarbara,
The TADs that you are considering are fantastic. I had heard them at AXPONA 2017. They were playing Maria Mena's "I Was Made For Loving You" and it was so musical. Amazing sound and musicality. Go for it if you can - it will suit your room too!

That TAD ME1 price drop was brought to my attention last night. The recommendation in the past was try the Harbeth SHL5+ and if price is not a concern then the TAD ME1 is the way to go (a better Harbeth). That was when the TAD was $15K with stands today it is $10K with stands.

I just got off the phone with Mike Major at GIK and we went over the placement details. As I mentioned in some posts above I did not know what I was doing last night (but still got great sound) but he set me straight on what to do. The only thing remaining for me to do is the placement of the side panels using the "Mirror Technique". I will do that later in the evening once my wife gets home. I will also move my CD rack to the another area of the house and clean up that left side wall so I have more flexibility in left side wall panel placement.

Mirror Technique - Sit on the listening chair facing speakers. Have someone with a mirror place the mirror on the side wall and have her move toward you along the wall. When you, siting on the listening chair, see the left speaker, via the left side wall mirror, you mark that sport as a reflection point. That is where the panels for the side wall reflection needs to be placed. Then apply same technique for the right speaker.

So my thoughts a few weeks ago were to wait for the GIK treatments and listen to the room with my existing components. Well last night I can see that even with less than correct GIK setup the room sounded the best it ever has. The system sounded so much bigger and sounded like a fatigue free good system. That was one of the points of this thread to get fatigue free bigger sound. I will listen to this GIK treated room for a little while and think it over as to what to do next.

I can see now that for a stand mount I will not need DSP to get great sound. For the floor standers that I am considering (including the Yamaha NS 5000) I will likely need DSP and maybe more treatments. The ceiling and my closet are the prime candidates. Added treatments to the ceiling is a no go, for aesthetics and house reasons.

So other than the Magico A3 all speaker options I have listed in the past are on the table. The TAD ME1 is something to consider at the new price and considering the sound I am getting with the similar sized LS50’s. One advantage of the TAD ME1 is the ability to use one of those new relatively low priced, high quality integrated amps that are being released. I mentioned a few earlier. With a bigger speaker I am looking at a good DSP capable preamp connected to a good amp. I mentioned 3 preamps above. Both are attractive options in there own way.

My son is sick at the moment and I may not play music today while he sleeps to test the system. Though, I will post photos of the GIK optimal setup and descriptions of the GIK suggestions later tonight. GIK have more suggestions for the room but they told me to not buy everything at once and do it one step at a time. I maybe done with the panels since it already sounds good.

Did the Harbeth's fall by the wayside?

Looks like the TAD ME-1 got a price drop to $9,995 (was $14,995) including stands. I have not heard them but I know they were brought up earlier in the thread.

https://youtu.be/_DaUGkEloxs

I am going over user comments on the Linn forum on the SPACE Optimization system. Seems like a real PITA to me. Maybe the simpler Lyngdorf | Anthem microphone approach is the way to go (if I decide to use DSP). I was also wondering how I would enter the GIK panels into the Linn SPACE system. Seems like a very complicated approach. As a software developer myself, I do not like complex designs.

https://hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/129719-linn-space-optimisation/

BTW - Great late night disk. Portishead - Dummy

@audiotroy The Personas were NOT fatiguing in the 1 hour I listened to them with the correct gear. The Lyngdorf pre and the Simaudio 860A amp. I really loved it. I think I could get the gear sorted out to make it sound even better. I do have concerns about listening for 8+ hours. Just a hunch and until I do so I will not know for certain.

I do not know if you are paying attention to this thread but today after my GIK treatments my system (Peachtree Nova and KEF LS50) are sounding the best they ever have sounded. I could listen all night to this. I am going to listen to the room treatments I now have with the LS50’s for a few weeks and think over this idea of me requiring a floor stander, maybe I won’t. The TAD ME1 with stands is $10K MSRP today. A lot of things are changing. Some exciting amps are also being released very soon.

Getting back to the Persona. I was really impressed by them. I actually understand your posts about them. I may even agree they could be better than the KEF Blades which I love. I have room downstairs for either a Blade or 9H and I know you have both for demo. I also know that you guys know how to show these speakers. However, as I mentioned before that downstairs system is for another day and I will not need the type of effort I am putting into this office system to make that one sound great.

BTW - For the last few days, I have been thinking about the T+A HV amp with a DSP streamer for a floorstander. The T+A is on A'gon for $9K. There is also the new CODA amp that Teajay is raving about. The new Krell u are raving about. A lot of options.

YYstantabarbera, the Persona's are not fatiguing if the demo is dialed in with the right gear which includes sources and cabling.

If you let us know how the dealer was setting up the Personas, and what gear he sells we can recommend a possibly different setup with the Persona's that will knock your socks off.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Persona and Kef dealers

Wow this is how music is supposed to sound. I did not think the LS50s could sound this good. Always had bad rooms.

My wife walked into my office just now and almost busted a gut laughing at my panels. She is a normal person. The best reaction to my audio stuff occurred when my sister and her husband came to visit my bachelor pad in the Bay Area. As you open the front door you are greeted by the 3CPOish Revel Salon 1. She looked at the speaker with her eyes just amazed and first thing she said looking at her husband, "don’t you get any ideas".

Now back to regular programming:
The sound with the panels is rather spectacular already. I am currently playing Siamese Dream by the Smashing Pumpkins. This was the disk that I mentioned was real tough to listen to a few weeks ago. Now back to back listens have been real comfortable without any fatigue.

The sound is so much better now. The bass is better the imaging is better. The system actually sounds bigger and the speakers are disappearing real well. Makes me question my desire to get a big floor stander in here. I need to think this over some more. Give it some time for this excitement to wear off.

I spoke with someone who has also demoed the Pesona 3F and he was telling me that the Persona 3F for 8 hours a day maybe a bad thing. Now this is the same thing I said to my dealer after the demo. I did however say I loved how it sounded in the 1 hour we listened. Nothing is settled with me on the Persona. So far it is the leading contender because I think it sounded the best, but there are a few more speakers to go.

I may have to also rethink my decision on the TAD ME1. Considering the great sound of the LS50 today. An uber stand mount like the TAD ME1 maybe great in this room even WITHOUT DSP.

Anyways, things are progressing in a very positive way.

BTW - heard some new music I like a few days ago on KCRW. Sister Disco - Disco Royale (on Tidal). They have a 3 song EP.

I received the GIK panels and have installed them without knowing what I am doing. Once I  contact the GIK rep tomorrow and get the placement done with his guidance I will post some new photos. 

I though I would post some thoughts the GIK rep gave me when we were evaluating my room.

"Thanks for the pictures. That worked well and they were very clear...all good there.

I agree with you that getting the room right without digital correction is always better. I've never liked what it does to the transient response even though it is pretty amazing when it's right.

Your room has a unique setup that makes it a little tough to be completely systematic about the placement of treatment (corners, first reflections, ceiling, back wall, front wall) and I feel like the best approach would be to strategically place our treatments where we can fit them and where we can maximize their effectiveness. Most of our panels mount on the walls on picture hooks (they hang like pictures) but since you don't want to make holes on the wall, I'll only offer FreeStanding panels instead. I'll assume that you would not want to treat the ceiling, based on this information?

I suspect that your lack of bass is partially because of your seated location being in front of an untreated closet. That combined with your distance from the front and back walls are probably contributing as well. Adequate bass trapping will only help.

The most important thing will be to add some bass trapping wherever we can fit it. After that I would then treat the sidewalls. We should really hang something on the wall behind your head too to make the listening position a little more neutral. A panel on the door and the sidewalls could help too.

"

My reference to the speakers being 3 feet from the wall was specific to the Audience speakers.

Thanks for the feedback.  Yeah I understand the challenge of a small room and furniture etc...  My sound room is our living room and it has to remain functional as a living room so things are substandard with my Vandersteen 2Ce's.  I have read posts where those speakers need to be at least 3 feet out from the wall and per the AudioKenesis post they think they would need 5 feet in order to have proper delayed reflections.

Good luck with your efforts I am very interested in any info you gather on DSP/Room Correction as I am also interested in both the Lyngdorf and Anthem units.

@gosta The DEQX can be used by newbies like me however, it is a bit more involved. The first step is to take it your backyard and then take mic measurements without any wall interfering. I don't think I am going to go to all that trouble for my office system. I will focus on the easier Linn | Lyngdorf | Anthem units.


@dbass I am conflicted to say anything bad about the Audience 1+1 V3 because I never had them in a good room. I had them in maybe the worst room of anyone on A'Gon for 8 months and then for 1 month in my current office. 

Let's just talk about how they sounded in my untreated office. They had a certain clarity that was awesome. I mentioned in some posts that I got the sense I was in the studio with musicians. The LS50s do not take me there like that. I originally had them with the Benchmark DAC3L + AHB2 amp and this aspect of clarity really stood out with this gear. I tried the same combo with my LS50's and they could not match the Audience in this respect. 

The thing that bugged me to no end was the poor imaging I was getting with them. When I switched to the LS50 the imaging was better. The soundstage seemed better with the LS50. The bass was better with the LS50 but I in some ways having less bass on the Audience could have been better to integrate a sub. I never did a sub. I was also sitting a little of axis so that did not help matters. 

In my current office I gave the dipole Audience 1+1 about 14-18 inches from the back wall. Maybe more was needed but I did not want the speaker too close to me. 

I just got my GIK panels and I have them temporarily setup until I speak with the GIK rep tomorrow. Even with this likely incorrect setup my LS50's are sounding the best they ever have in the office. So I imagine the Audience was also suffering from poor room acoustics. 

They are a good speaker, maybe better than the LS50s but at the time I was making the decision as to what to sell, in the bad acoustic room, the LS50 was better. I will send you a private message to contact the person who bought my Audience and discuss with him.

@yyzsantabarbara  -  Would you give me your thoughts on the Audience 1+1 V3s you had?  I was considering those for my office and curious on your thoughts and how they compare to your LS50s.

Nice thread on DEQX. From 2014 and still alive and well! Anything on Trinnov? A little simpler to use than DEQX for a non-pro I've read. Isn't DEQX more for diy-ers?

@mheinze The Pass should have been a good match for the Persona for my ears. I think I would have liked the demo you had in Germany. You may really hate some amps I have owned in the past. I thought the Simaudio was warm sounding compared to those other amps.

I am not necessarily a fan of DSP. I am just not a fan of small rooms. I will tolerate DSP if the small room can be fixed.

Sly and the Family Stone said - "Different stokes for different folks". I think that is what we are seeing here.

@drewan77 posted the following response to a DSP question I posted on the DEQX game changer thread.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/is-deqx-a-game-changer/post?postid=1681789#1681789

Did not hear the Yamaha, so can’t comment. I believe the Persona was driven with Pass electronics, which are typically very sweet (It was so bad, I did not bother to explore further). I am not a big fan of DSP, so my preferences may be different than yours. I also don't like Simaudio at all I find them extremely unmusical and fatiguing (again, same distributor here so easy to audition). 

@mheinze When I first heard the Persona 5F with the Lyngdrof 2170 I was ready to go home after 5 minutes. I selected the Lyngdorf because of the DSP feature. We did not use DSP during the demo because the room was rather large and the DSP was not as crucial as in my office. I wanted a sense of the Lyngdorf without DSP (a pure amp test).

The Lyngdorf sans DSP was truly awful with the Persona 5F. I imagine it sounded exactly like you are describing in your demo. I asked the dealer if this sounded correct and he said no. He agreed it sounded bad. I asked what he demos the Persona with and he said Macintosh. I am not a big Mac fan and luckily they had sold all their Mac amps the previous month.

I asked them to use the analog preamp out (RCA) of the Lyndgorf and connect it to the Simaudio 860A amp (had to convert to XLR on the amp I think). This was a glorious sound. just fantastic. I liked it more that the Magico A3 and Mark Levinson combo. Most of the things I was looking for were very equivalent between the 2 speakers except that I got the sense that there was better integration of the tweeter and mid on the Persona.

I also listened to the Magico A3 with the Benchmark DAC3 + AHB2 amp and it was not as good as with the Mark Levinson 585 integrated. I sold the Benchmark gear after that. So this was a great example to me of how the pairing of gear is really important. Another reason I was willing to give the Persona more of a chance to shine.

The dealer mentioned to me that the Lyngdorf + Simaudio 860A combo was the best he had heard the Persona 5F. I can see how people have ran out after listening to the Persona. The top end can be bright with the wrong electronics.  On the online forums I read a lot of people suggesting pairing up the Persona with amps that I think would be awful with then, such as, Bryston, Benchmark AHB2. I am sure others but these 2 are amps I have owned and I think they would not sound good with the Persona.

At the moment the Persona is my choice but I have a few more speakers to go. I would look for a warm sounding SS amp to drive the Persona. I do have concerns that the Persona may not be ideal for 8 hours, but that is just a guess. I will do another demo later with the DSP stuff and come to a better conclusion.

Being in Germany have you had the opportunity to hear the Yamaha NS 5000? Now that speaker has some radical design and material.

I am surprised you liked the Persona, I audition them, here in Germany (I believe Magico and Paradigm share distributor). They were so bright, glossy and coarse, and the bass was out of tune, don't know why would anyone prefer them to the A3 (or the Focal Sopra or the Sabrina), but that is just me. BTW, a friend of mine, that is also a reviewer for a hifi magazine, told me that the drivers are not pure Beryllium. Apparently, you can mix beryllium with aluminum, to reduce cost.

@erik_squires  My room treatments from GIK arrive today. I will listen with them for a while, though I do not have a big speaker to pressure my room. There are some short comings in my untreated room that can be improved upon. So I will be listening for that with my current speakers after the treatments.

I have a demo with the Linn | Lyngdorf | and Anthem using an external Simaudio amp (maybe 860A). This will be done using the Paradigm Persona B or 5F in a bad conference room with 2 (or 3) sides with glass pane walls. I will see which DSP is up to the task in that room.

I have heard KEF Reference 1 in a different room with only 1 big glass window (no DSP) and it sounded awful. KEF Reference 1 in a better room was great.

The dealer is prefers Lyngdorf and Linn over Anthem DSP. I shall see. This test may take a while until I get my finances in order to buy the unit I like best at that demo.

Interesting take by Linn on DSP. These are fighting words against the approach taken my Lyngdorf and Antherm.

It is interesting, but it is of course a biased point of view to sell a particular solution.
The best answer is still to treat the room as much as you can first. Then use room optimization / correction. Not all room correction is the same, with some providing far better solutions than others. JL Audio, Anthem and Dirac being among the better solutions I've seen.

The hybrid approach, to only use EQ on the bass works well too.