2. speakers
  3. 140726-1604

Big speakers in small room at moderate volume levels

My office is 11’W x 10’L x 9’H and is where I can listen to music for the next few years. I have a toddler and, for now, he has commanded the big spaces in the rest of the house. I have auditioned the Magico A3 and wanted to buy it but that was before I was relegated to the smallish office (I was expecting to move to a bigger room). I have removed the closet doors in this office room. The removal of the closet door gives me another 4 feet of depth to this room, though for only 1/2 width of the room. I can sit unobstructed 8 feet away from the speakers before I hit the area where the closet ends (so near field listening).

I currently I have KEF LS50 with Peachtree Nova 150. It is good and I can listen for the whole day without fatigue. I listen to FM, digital files on ROON, and my Sony SCD-1 SACD player. I want a bigger sound so I am looking at bigger speakers. I also do not want to use a sub since I am not a fan. I will also upgrade the NOVA 150 to the NOVA 500 in Spring 2019 and use with the LS50’s in a bedroom.

I came to the conclusion that my tastes would be best served by one of KEF Reference 1 or Magico A3. I was thinking that I would use the Lyngdorf 3400 in this room but I am having seconds thoughts on this now (some A’gon comments that it maybe a little dry). I am interested in solid state AB units like the Hegel H590 and Mark Levinson 585 to drive the speakers. I have heard the ML 585 and it is a fatigue free sounding unit that was a joy to listen to. I have not heard the Hegel H590 yet (but have heard other Hegels with KEF) and I am in the process of getting an audition of the H590. I have also discounted the class AB Micromega M-One 150 (with MARS room correction) because I do not want a cooling fan blowing in the room.

I must mention that I do not listen that loud when I am working and when I am working very late at night the volume is very low. The Mark Levinson and A3 combo was very good at low volumes during my demo but that was in the dealers perfect large room.

1) Am I making a mistake foregoing room correction with the 2 integrateds I am considering? Should I go with the Lyngdorf and A3 or KEF Ref 1, though I have never heard the Lyngdorf?

2) Will the Magico A3 work in this small room at moderate volumes WITHOUT room correction or will I subject myself to headaches and fatigue?

I am going to ask the dealer selling the A3’s this question when I am ready to buy but i wanted to ask on A’gon first to get some feedback. I doubt I could get the A3’s into my room for a trial but I have not asked the dealer yet.

I think (not 100% sure) the KEF Reference 1 with a non room correcting amp should work in my office space but I would prefer to buy the Magico A3 for the office. I have plans to buy another KEF model once my kid is a bit older and I can kick him out of the big room.
yyzsantabarbara

Showing 6 responses by audiotroy

audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy
3,862 posts
 
Yysantabarbera,

Been following this thread for a while here is where we would weigh in with your quest.

We would not recommend any speaker with very deep bass below 30hz as the room is really too small even with room treatments and electronic room correction you will have difficulty getting clean bass if the response is too low.

2: The best compact loudspeaker we have heard is the TAD ME 1, we are not yet a dealer for them but liked them so much we are contemplating bringing them in. Are they a lot better than the Ref 1 we think they are a bit more magical in terms of the midrange and refinement.

A point source dual concidental loudspeaker works wonders in less then optimal room’s due to the quasi horn loading which creates a very large sweet spot, and can help for off access listening postions.

3: We would recommend the Micromega M150 over the Lyngdorf, the Micromega sounds absolutely stunning with a class A/B amplifier that has a powerful punchy bass response, a warm midrange, and a huge dimensional sound stage and of course the Micromega M150 has MARS Room correction which is a subtitle but effective room correction system. The Lyngdorf is a class D  digital amplifier very similar to the NAD M32 which we have on display, the sound of the M32 is very clean but lacks the midrange liquidity and the involving musicality of the Micromega. The Lyngdorf and the M32  works best with much warmer loudspeakers rather than the cleaner faster sound of the TAD's, Magico or the KEF which seems to be the sound that you like

Personally we heard the A3 and think the TAD is a more musical version of that high resolution sound.

We do like the idea of the passive treatments as room correction can help but can not take the place of passive treatments, the combination of active room correction plus passive tuning makes even a less then optimal room into a very good sounnding one.

In the 2016 New York Audio show we were using the Paradigm Persona 9H a speaker with active bass correction, when we added in room tunning pannels the sound was fantastic.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ


audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy
3,862 posts
 
Dear Yyzstanabarbera, 

I really enjoyed our conversation, in the time that has elasped I forgot that this post is from you. 

I will recap a few points, we have heard the TAD ME1 at two different shows, and in each show we came away very impressed by the musicallity and high resolution and slightly sweet sound of the ME1  we are so intrigued that we are considering bringing them in.

If you are interested we would bring in a pair to compare with the Kef Ref 1.

Are they that much better, personally no, they just seem to offer a different take on the dual concentric design with a different profile.

As stated before, a point source works better than almost any other design for a small room, a first order sloped loudspeaker generally needs greater distance for the overlapping frequencies to gel into a coherent sound field, a point source guarantees that all sounds arrive in time and from the same place. A dual concentric is favored in many recording studios as monitors because the design focuses sound to the listener even in off access positions, many studios use Tannoy's for this reason.

The Micromega is dead silent, we have never heard the fans come on in our demos, if the fans are noisy that was a defective unit.

We know of no other high performance integrated with suce a fantastic feature set our amazing sound quality. The MARS room correction has been lauded as a very effective way of improving less than optimal rooms and is less intrusive than many other DSP based room correction systems.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to PM us. 

You have a great post going on, one of the most important things in low level listening is lowering noise floor, which you are doing with acoustic tunning, the next is high resolution loudspeakers, KEF, TAD, Magico are all loudspeakers that will sound fanatastic at less than big volume levels, the third is room correction, which can alleviate nasty frequency response humps which obscure details.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ


audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy
3,862 posts
 
Yysantabarbera man you are all over the place. 

Please consider that you have a difficult room most of your  demos will be  in stores with much larger spaces then what you have. 

A dual concentric speaker is your ideal remedy for less then optimal positioning and work like magic for nearfield listening.

The Kef ls 50 versus  a Kef  Ref 1 vs a Tad Me 1

Is like comparing a Ford Mustang vs a Ford Gt vs a Ferrari.

The Ref 1 are amazing speakers that are a huge improvement over the Ls 50.

I wouldn't worry that you may have a pair of Blades in your future as they are a huge improvement over Ref 1 or Tad Me 1.

If your baseline is Thin Lizzy live then you need a system that will scale and punch with great extension in the treble unless you want a dead electric guitar

We have a client with the Ref 1 with Naim Nac 272 250Dr combo and it is exactly what you crave. The Naim gear has tremendous punch.,

Consider first room size and postioning 

Kef, Tad, and Atc scm 19 are three speakers that are derived from the concepts of what makes a professional monitor. 

Wish you could fly out to our shop we could make it so easy for you to see where we are comming from.

Dave and Troy 
Audio Doctor NJ
audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy
3,862 posts
 
Yysantabarbera you are back to square one, with a similar viewpoint to what we recommended when we first talked on the telephone.

Micromega M150 as it is compact, has room correction which will make a small difficult room sound great with a pair of Kef Reference Ones.

This is a reasonably priced setup that is compact in size and sounds fantastic, the M150 is one hell of a great integrated,  we will be bringing in the KAV 300i as it seems to be a killer integraed the Krell doesn't have room correction though which is a disadvantage vs the Micromega.

Food for thought. This package will come in reasonably in cost, will work wonders for a small room, and only requires an ethernet cable and one power cord. Simple elegant and fantastic sounding.

The Kef Reference ones work fabuslously well in a small room, wide dispersion, adjustable bass loading, and not too much deep bass and they sound big.

Use a good power cord, a set of good isolation feet Isoacosutic or Critical mass, a good ethernet cable and speaker cables and you will have one fanastic compact mini reference system.


Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy
3,862 posts
 
Wow you are willing to go through a lot of work. The one demo of the Magico's we heard they were way forward with gobs of deep bass. Even if you open up the room a bit you may still overload it. 

The Vandy Treo's do have less bass and a less aggressive voiicing then the Magico.s personally we feel that their bass is going to be a bit boomy but you will have less of it then the Magicos.

Overall the room is still quite small we would still caution against any speakers with bass lower than 30hz range.

Let us know your findings with the new Krell KAV 300i talked to Walter and he says it is amazing sounding. Time will tell.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy
3,862 posts
 
YYstantabarbera, the Persona's are not fatiguing if the demo is dialed in with the right gear which includes sources and cabling.

If you let us know how the dealer was setting up the Personas, and what gear he sells we can recommend a possibly different setup with the Persona's that will knock your socks off.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Persona and Kef dealers
More to discover