Best turntable under $4000

IF I was to buy a Technics, It would be the SP-15, factory wood base, BP500 Base, two arms: straight fixed cartridge, S with removable headshell.

SP-15 is 3 speeds, SP-10 is 2 speeds

Here’s one with black base, I would wait for the wood one to show up

Here’s the wood base, with a different arm

SP-15 specs are equal to the modern ones.

I have owned a Technics SP 10 since 1973 and it still worked but the power switch was bad. I had Bill Thalmann go over it, do the Krebs mod, a reasonably priced plinth and eventually installed a Kuzma 4 Pt. 9" arm on it. I can't remember what the TT cost me new, back in the day, but it was in 1973 dollars! Long since amortized. Thalman's work on the table wasn't costly. (and perhaps you don't do the Krebs thing). This set up runs in my vintage system in the parlor in a Quad 57 set up powered by tubes. It speaks to the longevity of the product, its reliability. (It isn't even the more desirable mk ii or mkiii, but the early model, which does not have the torque, motor or platter of the later iterations. Still, my sunk cost was minimal). 

I have also owned a couple Kuzma tables, the Reference (which is self-isolating) with a Triplanar and the XL with the Airline. Franc Kuzma does nice work and supports his products, has a great distributor in the U.S. (The XL is a pain to isolate and is very heavy- not suggesting it but that little pipe bomb table he makes-- not sure how well it isolates--with the 4 Pt. 9" arm would be a nice combo--probably over your budget). 

Everybody has their own personal take on TTs-- it is very hard to compare them in the real world. I would at least try to get some hands-on time with the tables and arms you are considering so you can judge the ergonomics and try to find out how effective their isolation is. 

Good luck, I've found that if you make the right choices, this stuff can potentially last a lifetime with some routine maintenance and/or refurbishment. 

The Thorens td 1500 sub chassis turntable with included Ortofon 2m Bronze cartridge mounted in a SME headshell. It’s getting some great reviews, Analog Planet, HiFi News, .....it also won the EISA best product Award 2022-2023....it is $2999 in the US, however it can be bought for under 2K from Europe, for example Thomanns.....

@audioguy85 - that looks like the Thorens from the early '70s. Those were nice tables. 

@lewm

Why use the term "fanbois"? Because every time and I do mean every time turntables are discussed, Technics owners come out of the woodwork and say how wonderful the brand is, vintage or new and basically intimate that you would be stupid buying anything else.

They ignore the issue of average to mediocre arms, (hence my comment re a hi end cartridge) and they ignore the cogging issues in vintage Technics. Yes you may well be able to fit a 4 point 9, a Reed or a Schroeder arm to a Technics, but then you would not have a Technics would you?

They also ignore the fact that there is better value available amongst other brands, many of which these fanbois have never even heard of.

I would take issue with many of your suppositions, but there would be no point. Every major brand has its advocates on this forum, and questions such as the one posed by the OP are bound to elicit support for each of those brands. Or hadn’t you noticed support for SOTA, Rega, Linn, Thorens, and you name it, which predictably pepper all threads about choosing a turntable or what turntable is best? Perhaps you don’t notice those other sets of “fanboys”, because you’re so obsessed with your Technics phobia.

Why not make a constructive suggestion for the OP, instead of wallowing in your bias against Technics?

"Or hadn’t you noticed support for " no I have not, I feel the pro-Technics comments are a lot more vehement as if they know the truth like no one else. They are also more condescending about other brands. 

@whart, yes it does. It is modeled after the original thorens 150. Great reviews, I think I’m grabbing one. Really don’t need it, as I already own the Avid ingenium, Music Hall 7.3, and a Technics mk7, not to mention a fully auto thorens td240-2, and a vintage Lenco L90.

My Technics mk7 is a pretty nice turntable for the money, and fun to use. I pretty much got it for half price, so I mean to me it was a steal. I got a shure m97xe on it with the stabilizer brush, pretty cool and retro looking. That Shure is going for outrageous money nowadays on ebay and the like. 

A lot of childish posts here…geez.  

Serenity now!

Ditto VPI ++++

I forgot to mention VPI as another brand that has its own devoted and assertive fan base.  They're all deserving in one way or another, else these happy customers would not exist.

One man's perspective that gives an option

I switched from a >$4K Acoustic Signature setup (w/ $1600 tonearm) to a Technics 1210GR and have no regrets. The former was a more elegant looking turntable for certain but the GR looks better in person than I expected. Definitely less DJ-esque in the black guise. The Technics tonearm seems every bit as good as the Acoustic Signature’s. It’s possibly better actually, since I added a KAB arm damper. The bearings of the Technics arm feel more fluid also, not that the AS arm was any slouch, it’s just something you don’t notice until you handle each side by side. 
 

Even though the AS table produced near perfect speed stability according to a KAB  speed strobe (the AS has an outboard motor controller that allows fine pitch adjustments), I could still hear a significant improvement in sustained notes with the Technics. Sustained piano notes with the 1210 are absolutely perfect, no flutter whatsoever. I can’t say the same for any belt drive table I’ve heard outside of an SME 30. 

 

@audioguy85    I'm looking at the Music Hall 7.3    How do you like it....

I’ve had a few > $4K turntables in my day. Some mentioned here and all of them good. I moved on just to experience something new. I sold a 1200G to buy my current table, a Luxman PD 171. The 1200G is certainly a nice table. Very stable speed, easily adjustable VTA, removable headshell, after market upgrades, etc. However, for me, I found the belt drive Luxman to have more bottom end and more vinyl warmth. Of course, this brings up the great debate of DD vs. belt. I also like removable headshells cause I like to experiment with sound presentation from different carts, including mono. For me, this is a must have. Vinyl is a journey and the foundation is really the table. Buy the best you can afford but keep an open mind about trying something else just to educate yourself on what you like in sound presentation. Once you figure out the table then you can do the same with carts, phono preamps, tonearms, headshells, phono interconnects, on and on 🤣. 

Best way to spend $4K is to buy a used well cared for turntable that originally cost double that.  I have done that several times, once getting a VPI TNT/ SMEV for the price of the cartridge it came with!  Takes research and careful examination of condition, but worth it,

I sold a 1200G to buy my current table, a Luxman PD 171

Replacing the mat on any 1200 with the tungsten polymer record mat from that Luxman is a game changer IMO.

+1 Rega P8. Fantastic arm designed for the table. Just be sure to put on a wall shelf or some kind of suspension system (or both like I did) because it weighs only 10 pounds!. With a really good cartridge will put you over $4K by a little and by even more if you need a phono stage. 

The wiring goes straight from the cartridge all the way through to the phono stage - no headshells or tonearm cable interfaces to add distortions. Remember, every connector adds noise and distortion.

I wouldn't buy a used turntable of any type unless it was from a local dealer who would be willing to support it.

Regas depreciate very little for a reason. High demand and great value. Not big on their cartridges though.

Plus I think they look cool, but I wouldn't use that as a top criteria.

OP

did you decide and buy something?

I have an older Well Tempered Classic with the arm from the same manufacturer it has been a joy to own since I got it. I am sure you can find one on the used market for a reasonable price. My cartridge is over your entire budget so I can not be recommending the Koetsu Rosewood Signature but it does a fantastic job.

Thank you everyone for the responses.  All the feed back helped me narrow my search. Looks like I am going blow my budget on just the table and arm then buy the cartridge seperately. Thank you all

Before you spend $4k on a new deck, I’d play around with ~$500 carts and phono stages to hear what you like. Take some time (months) so get a feel for what you like, then that’ll inform what you’re after when moving up with a turntable. 
 

get a Schiit mani for $149

carts to try:

Grado platinum low output 

Hana 

Denon DL 103 

that red dynavector

something from Nagaoka 

I love my Well Tempered Labs Amadeus but would probably get a technics 1200 variant next.

I could never afford Dr. Feikert's turntable, but I admire it for two reasons. First, I know what it takes to earn a PhD and it is very probable Dr. Feikert applied the same conscientious attention to detail in designing and perfecting his turntable he had to learn through the hard years of graduate school. Second, in naming it after Voltaire, he has named it after a man who is my hero. There is a story about Voltaire having published Candide, which had the police on the way to his house to arrest him, eating his lunch. His servant was near panic over his not hurrying to board a carriage to cross the Swiss border before the police could catch up with him. He assured the servant there would be time for dessert. The police barely missed him when he departed to cross the border. To make a quote I heard of but cannot find from another literary hero of mine, Dante Alighieri, Voltaire had learned to ". . . sail through life in a greasy ship and slip the grips of his enemies."

Have fun with your new turntable!  I’ve had a long journey to get to what works for me. My goal is both great sound and ease of setup and use. I just want to put records on and listen. I’ve owned and used the Linn LP12, Clearaudio Performance, Townshend Rock 7, SOTA Sapphire, Bryston 1.0—all with top-notch arms and various cartridges up to $3500. And phono preamps ranging from $1000 to $7000. After all this, I’ve settled on my favorite, the Technics 1200G. It sounds great, is easy to set up, and allows easy cartridge switching, and can support excellent MC cartridges. Most important, it makes it very easy to just put a record on, which then sounds better than it ever has. 
 

This is just me and my experience. Your needs or wants may be different. 

You can get a really good condition Garrard 401 with an SME arm for that. It will sound better than anything else at twice that price. That said, most $4000 turntables are really good. I think a used Rega P8 with an Alpheta cartridge would be a good choice if you don't want to get into vintage. Plug and play and sounds great.

The vintage and used stuff is great for the dedicated hobbyist, but can be problematic for someone who would prefer to have a trouble-free modern table and use readily available carts. In the under 4k price range I would seriously consider the Technics SL1200GR (which sounds almost identical to the G) with a Hana SL or a Rega P6 with the Ania (both around $2.5k with great entry level MC carts that will pair well with your Cronos Magnum phono section). Spend the money you save on records!

If you want to spend more, the Technics SL1200G or the Rega P8 would be good choices, but both would take you over your budget when you add decent carts.

If you end up going belt drive, here’s an option, new, semi-auto.

available black, same seller

The man is willing to pay around $4000 for a quality TT. This probably indicates he would not be interested in a $1000 TT with a USB port.

lewm

you are right, way below budget

except few are responding to his alternate desire for semi-automatic, and this one does have usb if desired.

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this was the best semi-automatic mentioned IMO:

here’s the thorens 1601 gemoody mentioned, open box, $3,100. free shipping

leaves some money for cartridge!

dealer says "Free Lifetime Technical Assistance". Anybody have any experience with seller?

if, like cameras, open box gets maker’s full warranty, check with the seller if tempted.

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I also think about ’assumed’ others following the discussion when I find stuff I didn’t know about.

Over budget, but A whole lot ’less dj looking’

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another

This one, listed yesterday

has the VERY DESIREABLE BP500 Base with easy VTA, and potential for a second arm wand, Shape with removable headshell

I'm with the THORENS TD 1601 Crowd. Get the Walnut look.

APPEARANCE!!!

I just want to add:

I want equipment that looks good to me, any time I approach it, turn it on, or walk nearby, playing or just sitting,

or has unique features/capabilities I appreciate every time I use it.

Cameras, TT, Preamp; Amp, Speakers. Cars

Of course it has to preform to my expectations, and sound terrific, within or usually above budget some when I find something I didn’t know existed.

OP was choosing as exaamples wood with round corners, maybe not his final choice, but as the examples he gave us with his comment appearance is important.

That’s why I wouldn’t buy the great performing Technics, and perhaps why I would buy the Technics I mentioned (not DJ appearance, 3 speeds), with the wonderful BP500 base (unique features)

Didn't know about this one. Over OP's budget, but I thought others might want to see it

This listing/price is from Romania, probably not real.

Has the OP indicated that he is interested in a used turntable, not to mention a vintage used turntable? Those often come with their own unique sets of problems that the new owner then has to solve. Just to note one thing: the SP 15 is not in the same league with the SP 10 mark 2, no matter how beautiful the plinth may or may not be.

If it's $4K all in for a complete turntable/tonearm/cartridge you should consider:

Poly Table Signature from George Merrill...PolyTable Signature (hifigem.com).  George is Mr. Analog in my opinion and many others. 

Check out his web page the gear he carries and his "white papers: GEM Dandy Products (hifigem.com).

Best of luck

I’ve been using the following for 35+ years:

- VPI HW 19 MK IV with SAM

- Sumiko MMT

- Koetsu - started with (“the old”) Black, currently the Onyx (“the old” onyx, made by The Madter)

$4000 for a turntable?  lol

That's more than I spent for the used Lexus that I've been driving for the past seven years or so... 

I have an old Sansui turntable that still performs just fine... I think I spent $100, maybe, plus a decent cartridge.  It's mainly nostalgic clutter, now, though... and I'm considering getting rid of it. 

To each his own, I guess.  ... values and priorities... some like bling, some prefer practicality or investments that actually go up in value - I'll take that 4k and drop it into an S&P 500 Index fund, thank you very much.  

Thank you, Curtdr for your thoughtful and incredibly helpful point of view. Next you can tell me how you walked to school uphill in the snow both ways when you were little. 4k is a drop in the bucket compared to most vinyl rigs on then site. Have fun being a curmudgeon.

Have fun listening to the S&P 500. The premise here is you don’t need the income you could otherwise earn from $4000, and/or that there is more to life than making money. 

@curtdr

Why would a hotshot big investor like you come on an audio site and give your opinion on anything? Enjoy that old sh---t box that you been driving for the past 7 years. Go get ’em big spender!!

@curtdr clearly the OP has more disposable income than you. 

His money his choice.

Putz. 

Curtdr. Maybe you should read your post again that dripped with condescension. You could have said that you don't think I need to spend 4k. You could have given me examples of xy and z that will cost far less and sound just as good. I would have been all ears. You instead chose to imply that I am frivolous with money and need to think more about investing. Now we all know you are a millionaire.....and a condescending putz. Well played troll.

@curtdr sorry could not help it. Timing is everything.

@cpdkee and everyone else, for that matter: Spend your money on whatever you want. It’s your money. Only you can decide if you’re being frivolous or not. You decide your own values, and by definition how you use your money reflects your values.

My condescension is reserved for people who believe that spending more equals greater enjoyment. That’s not how life works.

I condescend to the people who condescend to the frugal sorts who understand that more money does not essentially equate to more enjoyment and NOT even to greater performance in audioland... nor in cars, for that matter.  

If you want a suggestion, then here’s one: Technics. You can get a new, well-reviewed Technics for around $1000 or so if you shop around. You can get a used one for much less.

But, if spending $4000 on a turntable makes you feel better, well, have at it! All is well.

@jerryg123 all is well, jerry.

"Diminishing returns" does depend on one's measure, and some can be measured, and some are purely subjective... 

And if spending more and more money equates to equally more subjective enjoyment, well that's fine, and subjective... 

But to think that spending more definitely gets better discernibly better performance in audioland is delusional.  I don't think that's any "new news."  

So like I've repeated here and in many other places, enjoy what one enjoys.  If one is aware of the issues and the alternatives, is educated and informed, then at that point, assuming that the person is rational and well-intentioned, A person can play his chips however he feels fit.

"So like I've repeated here and in many other places, enjoy what one enjoys.  If one is aware of the issues and the alternatives, is educated and informed, then at that point, assuming that the person is rational and well-intentioned, A person can play his chips however he feels fit...."

That description fits everyone who's offered an opinion to the OP, except you, Curt.  Based on your first sentence, it appears you roam around the Forums spreading the Debbie Downer Wall Street philosophy. By the way, the S&P 500 was down 20% over the year 2022.  Your $4000 invested in December, 2021, is now worth $3200.  Whereas my vintage Kenwood L07D turntable is up by about the same amount in its market value over the same time period.