It’s not worth further discussion.
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Goofy and Elliot, OK, perhaps I should have put it another way: Many of the turntables you guys have recommended either suck outright or are going to be problematic for any newbie, because old TTs (e.g., greater than 20 years) with high degrees of automaticity (e.g., autolift at the end of an LP) are going to need service, if not in the short run then very soon thereafter. So, for a true newbie, which neither of you are, purchase of complex vintage TTs is not advisable, no matter how quaint any particular one of them may be. An initial bad experience with a troublesome TT might alienate someone from vinyl altogether. I guess that's what got under my skin. I meant no offense.
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So a Realistic Lab400, valued at $350 CAD, or a JVC QLY66F, for sale for even less might actually be "the best turntable for under $4000"? That's rhetorical, because I don't think so. If you guys want to turn this thread into a "guide to inexpensive vintage turntables currently for sale", you may as well go for it, because the OP seems to have left the building.
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Ignorance is treatable, dogma. Do some homework.
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Curt, goodbye. I apologize for engaging you.
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Curt, what’s funny to me is that you think $4000 is an extravagant, irresponsible amount of money to spend on a TT and tonearm. Whereas I rank it as a sweet spot where you can get a lot of bang for the buck, and I rank your hypothetical $100 Sansui as either your joke on us or an indication of self delusion. Yes, we agree that there is such a thing as ridiculously expensive, but I’d put that threshold much higher. Your original post elicited so much ire I think mostly because most of us are old fogies who have earned our money and are comfortable enough financially that there is absolutely nothing sacrificed by spending $4000 on a turntable. I have investments in tax-free bonds and mutual funds, and I don’t even live off their earnings. I simply roll them over. I am fortunate in that I can do that and still buy a $4000 turntable, if I wanted to. But as I already own five turntables that are always up and running into two different systems, I am not in the market for another turntable. If you look at the system pages of many of the guys who comment here, you will find that many of us own very elaborate systems that are very well thought out and not extravagant by modern criteria. In other words, you are preaching to the converted, but more than that you are preaching to those who do not want to be preached to. If all that matters to you is accumulating static wealth, then also, you came to the wrong place.
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I think Curt is a “money manager”, aka investment advisor, pimping for new clients.
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"So like I've repeated here and in many other places, enjoy what one enjoys. If one is aware of the issues and the alternatives, is educated and informed, then at that point, assuming that the person is rational and well-intentioned, A person can play his chips however he feels fit...."
That description fits everyone who's offered an opinion to the OP, except you, Curt. Based on your first sentence, it appears you roam around the Forums spreading the Debbie Downer Wall Street philosophy. By the way, the S&P 500 was down 20% over the year 2022. Your $4000 invested in December, 2021, is now worth $3200. Whereas my vintage Kenwood L07D turntable is up by about the same amount in its market value over the same time period.
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Have fun listening to the S&P 500. The premise here is you don’t need the income you could otherwise earn from $4000, and/or that there is more to life than making money.
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Has the OP indicated that he is interested in a used turntable, not to mention a vintage used turntable? Those often come with their own unique sets of problems that the new owner then has to solve. Just to note one thing: the SP 15 is not in the same league with the SP 10 mark 2, no matter how beautiful the plinth may or may not be.
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The man is willing to pay around $4000 for a quality TT. This probably indicates he would not be interested in a $1000 TT with a USB port.
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I forgot to mention VPI as another brand that has its own devoted and assertive fan base. They're all deserving in one way or another, else these happy customers would not exist.
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I would take issue with many of your suppositions, but there would be no point. Every major brand has its advocates on this forum, and questions such as the one posed by the OP are bound to elicit support for each of those brands. Or hadn’t you noticed support for SOTA, Rega, Linn, Thorens, and you name it, which predictably pepper all threads about choosing a turntable or what turntable is best? Perhaps you don’t notice those other sets of “fanboys”, because you’re so obsessed with your Technics phobia.
Why not make a constructive suggestion for the OP, instead of wallowing in your bias against Technics?
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Laoman, excuse me. You insult those who like “Technics” TTs, of one kind or another, first by referring to them as “fanbois “, second by referring to the brand as a “DJ” brand, third by stating the Technics advocates have “tin ears”, and finally by inferring that mounting a Kiseki or Phasemation cartridge on a Technics tonearm would be so gross a mismatch as to be improbable. You wrote all these things without ever specifying which Technics turntable adherents you intend to insult; or are you lumping all of their efforts, from the SL1200 to the SP10R in the same category? So it is no wonder that some take offense.
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Can you imagine if DJs used Linn?
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Let me get this straight, grisly, you can’t bring yourself to use a Technics TT because DJs use or once used their bottom of the line SL1200, never mind that the 1200G series are better in every way and not to mention that probably hundreds of thousands of audiophiles have happily used and do use the old SL1200 in home systems, not to mention also the SP10 mk2 and mk3 or the SP10R that each rivaled the best TTs available in their day and at present?
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