Best Rocking Speakers 15K and Under

@ctsooner Yes I do agree, I have to use my own ears and my own music to audition thats the mistake I made the first go around and learned my lesson. Dealers I originally trusted I soon came to realize the line of bull they were laying on me about products they dont sell. One when I brought in some music even claimed that it was a bad recording and that why it sounded the way it did. Have had some good experiences though when back the second go around. The dealer I purchased my C2600 from was probably the best. He highly encouraged me to listed to other speakers and not just his as he wanted me to buy what worked best in my system and hopefully being honest I would come back and purchase more gear in the future even if I chose other speakers. So I’ll see what I wind up with once all is said and done. 

You want rockin. Look into JBL horns. DD6600’s and others. Real music and speakers that will last forever. Their speed cannot be matched. Hope you get a chance to listen. I’m a classical fan but will go JBL from my B&W’s- which I have no complaints about. 

trknomo OP28 posts07-03-2018 7:07pm@ctsooner Yes I do agree, I have to use my own ears and my own music to audition thats the mistake I made the first go around and learned my lesson. Dealers I originally trusted I soon came to realize the line of bull they were laying on me about products they dont sell. One when I brought in some music even claimed that it was a bad recording and that why it sounded the way it did. Have had some good experiences though when back the second go around. The dealer I purchased my C2600 from was probably the best. He highly encouraged me to listed to other speakers and not just his as he wanted me to buy what worked best in my system and hopefully being honest I would come back and purchase more gear in the future even if I chose other speakers. So I’ll see what I wind up with once all is said and done.

Yes, we all have those horror stories.  Have you ever auditioned straight analog vs digital correction in teh signal chain (not using digital as a source)?  If so, I'm sure you have heard the difference.  Right now, digital is just so limited IRT audio playback.  Someday it may or may not equal analog (for EQ), but it's not even close yet for so many technical reasons.  

Companies that make it seem like it's the panacea of room correction etc... remind me of the early days of the CD and offering it's 'perfect sound'.  That's not to say there aren't decent products offering digital correction of an audio signal, but I've heard many of them, including what you have heard and regardless of cost, it's just not as good as leaving the signal alone and correcting teh room a bit.

I just placed a few 5' tall silk plants around my room and it's made a world of difference.  Two pretty quilts on teh side walls to absorb the first reflection also helped a great deal. These are things that most folks can do to a room to make it sound better and it's relatively inexpensive and brightens the room up and hides cords and components a bit too. lol...

Just my two cents.

@ptss Yes the JBL’s are on my hit list to listen to. Had the week off and thought I would have time to travel around and hit some audio stores but the at home list too precedence as usual. Just have to work it in over the next month or so. 

technomo

Not interested in the triple impacts. I don't blame you. I love the Wilson Benesch Vectors. They go loud but still remain accurate. So you can listen and not hurt your ears, ( or you wife's ears ) .Very tight bass and smooth ( soft dome tweeter ) highs. sumptuous midrange. 

I have the Revel Salon1's connected right now, I also have the salon2's that I just swapped out to get these ready for a demo and possible sale. These are awesome, they don't compress or get hard sounding at high spl and they manage to sound balanced at any volume. I m listening to free by Train and the big drum towards the end of the song has the Walls going in and out! A pair of Salon1's can be found for 1/2 price of the Salon2's used and for the money good luck doing better. Revel carries replacement drivers for the Ultima line last I checked. 

OP, whats your general location? A pair of Dynaudio C60's  would probably put a pretty big grin on your face also, but they're harder to find used. Mac is pretty smooth gear right? if so the tweeters in Revels and Dynaudio may actually make for a boring cimbination tho' that probably depends more on the room.

@steve59 Yes Mac gear is pretty smooth, but much more detailed than the MacIntosh of yesteryear which for some is better or worse. Not sure if the Revels, or Dyn’s would be boring, would just have to listen to them. The Sonus Fabers are a good match with Mac gear and they are a bit on the warm side as well. 
 I’m actually right in the vicinity of NJ, PA and NY. So a good location to listen to just about everything. There are a couple of Revel dealers within reasonable stricking distance from me, so may get a chance soon to have a listen.

trknomo, have you checked out Johnny at Audio Connections?  That may have been where you heard the ProAcs, but I didn't see where you auditioned the Vandersteen's or B&W's.  You are blessed in that you can go audition a lot of speakers to make a truly informed decision.  

For $16k you can get a custom made pair of Salk Soundscape 12's. You won't find a better looking (will probably look better than the other furniture in your home) or better sounding speaker (assuming you want accuracy) for under $20k. They will play from 18hz to 40k hz +/- 3db. 

And your amps will drive them perfectly. Jim is a great guy and and builds fantastic speakers with some of the best drivers in the world. Check out the web page and ask anybody who has ever dealt with him. 

Volsfan, I know those speakers and they are very good, but speakers are the most subjective component you can get.  Looks as well as sound.  There is no speaker at any price that is the best looking or best sounding, lol.  Yes, I've heard nothing but great things about Jim and each time I've heard his speakers, I"ve enjoyed them, but like all the others in this thread, the OP needs to hear  them and decide.

I LOVE the VAndersateen line and have auditioned most of the contenders out there.  I'm very used to listening to ultra high end systems as I'm blessed to have some good friends in the audio world, but Vandersteen's are the best or best for the money. They are just the best for ME as well as other owners. The same goes for the other brands out there.  

It's awesome that you love yours that much though as that's what audio is all about and what makes the forums fun.  :). 

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-t652-dual-6-1-2-2-way-tower-speaker-pair--300-653?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pla

@ctsooner Yes you are correct we all have different tastes in both visual and sound. Fortunately I’m located in an area with so many dealers within an hour from my house. 
 The Salks do have my interest up, just have to get out and hear some. I like the fact that they are custom built and without a dealer network and markup, probably a lot of speaker for the money. 
 I do have some customers in the Chicago area, might be an excuse to head that way with a side trip to Salk. 

That would be cool and I'd love to hear your thoughts if you do.  

Here is one misconception in audio.  All the companies who claim that going dealer direct will give you more bang for you buck aren't always doing that.  Due to economy of scale as well as a fleet of engineers etc, you are possibly getting more for your money, but often times not.  It's still all about the sound.  

The biggest problem I have with the direct companies are selling that gear eventually.  Your market share will be less, because fewer folks will have heard of them.  I have owned a few products from dealer direct and found that it was a very limited audience.  They also weren't able to hold their value the way an established, well known company's product typically does.  

There are just a lot of things to keep in mind no matter what piece of gear you get.  I have found that digital gear seems to have many more 'direct' manufactures.  Often times it's a one or two person operation like Steve Nugent at Empirical Audio (GREAT DACS) or Sam Laufter and designer Mark who make my server/dac www.thememoryplayer.net   

I post these things to prove that I DO purchase some pieces dealer direct, but I have to say that my Ayre QX5 isn't being sold just yet as it's still. a GREAT DAC and beats most I've heard up to the 20k mark.  YMMV

I hope you get to hear the Salk and compare it to the others in this thread to hear your thoughts.  

Jim Salk does build a heck of a speaker.  If you are looking for a little smoother there are a pair of the exotica towers over on audiocircle for sale.  

Outstanding for rock, techno, prog-rock, etc...;

- Legacy Focus 20/20 if you are looking used and low budget
- Legacy Focus HD if you are looking used and slightly more budget
- Legacy Focus SE, used or new, under $15K if memory serves on new price
- Legacy AERIS with Wavelet used is under $15K and is outstanding...

All these will move your walls and let you feel and hear the greatest rock material out there and so much more....Focus SE and AERIS are the 2 best....

If not already sole, your Kef Ref 3s properly matched with a sub (or two), might surprise you big time.  That said, if you remain dead set against a sub, read no further.  We use the three-way Kef Reference 201.2 monitors, which produce not much base, but when paired with a JL F112, we rock LOUD and long with an enormous, crystal clear sound stage with all the chest bump one could ask for.  The addition of a sub (and cross-over so as to relieve the Kefs of any bass duty) fundamentally transformed the Kef Ref 201.2.   Meanwhile, in a separate system similar to yours (Mac C2500/Mac MC452), we go concert level LOUD with vintage (albeit heavily modded) Polk SDA 1.2TLs.  With your budget, obviously there are lots of great choices out there that others have mentioned, but there's something to be said for blasting rock music on some high quality vintage speakers.  

Typo correction: meant to say "sold," not "sole."  

you can try  Focal Sopra 2.

Thanks

Like Ozzy62 said Klipschorns

@whitecap Yes I did think of the vintage route, just don't have the time to fiddle or rebuild anything

@robertplong Listened to the Supra 2's next to the Magico's and liked the Magico sound better

@rvito Don't have the corners for the Klipschorns

@timo62 eliminated the Proacs after another listen of them and not a fan of the Quatros. Have been at Audio Connection and yes John is a great guy and a lot of good information.

Short list after doing some more listening:

Magico A3 listened 4 times now and compared against Focal and Paradigm and B&W

DynAudio Countour 60 (haven't yet heard but wanting to)

Legacy Series and Bache. Been to AudioDoctor once and have to get back. It's just finding the time to hang out there for a few hours as there is so much to see and listen to there and great people to shoot the bull with. 

JBL 4367 Still have to find a pair to listen to. Aesthetically not my favorite but willing to listen as I think they might be the best next to vintage speaker sound. 

There were so many great suggestions here and have listened to few whether at a dealer or an item within driving distance that someone was selling. Found many out of my price range as well. But for now the list above will be one of the ones I settle on. 

Based on what your tastes seem to be, the Contours may do it for you.  

Given that you've listened to the Magicos four times, I think that they may be what you're looking for.  Sometimes it's best to trust your feelings...

I hope you get to listen to your final contenders in your listening room. I'm enjoying the thread.
 There's a pair of SS8 about 20 miles from me that I want to trouble the owner to listen to even though i'm not in the market. ..would it be rude?

@ctsooner Hoping to hear the Contours this week if all goes OK. Same dealer has a pair of Proac’s that I may listen to again while there.

@rcprince To be fair the first time they were just set-up and not even broken in. The second time was at a Music day at the dealer. The third time they were now going on 3 weeks old and well broken in and spent a good hour listening. And the last time I was auditioning some preamps but had them all going thru the A3. Enjoyed what I heard but last impression was based more on preamp. 

@steve59 I dont think it rude as long as you told the guy you really just wanted to hear them for a future reference. If it was a brand that was sold in stores that would be different, but with the SS’s thats not possible.

Funny as I heard the Magico A3 at Axpona and did not think they sounded as good in any way as my Magico S3. I just sold the S3 s and bought Persona 5F and they absolutely destroy the Magico's. Dynamics,details in live music like room ambiance that the Magico's never even conveyed. 
Salk makes great speakers and his facility is 30 miles from me. Please feel free to reach out if you want to kill 2 birds with one stone.  

I haven't read through the whole thread, but if your ceiling is 15K I'm surprised not to find mention here of the Harbeth 40.2.  I heard them recently and thought them extraordinarily good.  After the first few seconds of playing the first cut, when I recovered from my initial shock, my first words were, "Wow, just wow".  Later that day I heard the Contour 60s, and to my ears--YMMV--there was simply no contest, not even close.  Also, the Harbeths have now handily knocked off my top spot favorite up to this point, the similarly priced Vienna Acoustics Liszt, which, allowing for (in)accuracy of acoustic memory, I would still rate well above the Dynaudios.

Guys, if you read everyone's posts, you can understand how the OP listens and what he likes in a speaker.  He wants dynamics and a lot of detail.  if he doesn't want the Vandersteen's, he won't want the Harbeth's.  Harbeth's are one of the most enjoyable sounding speakers, but they lack some dynamics and are not going to give you the micro and macro detail. They will allow you to listen and enjoy music all day long.

The best I've ever heard were the new anniversary 40.2's with the top of the line MSB system with Audioquest dragon and Hurricane cords.  This is overkill for this speaker, but man was it fun to listen to.  I just don't feel that the OP would be happy with that speaker, but of course he should listen to it if he is able to.

If you really do not want subs and your goal is LF extension, the JBLs will not likely work for you. Their efficiency and other things are maintained in part by early bass rolloff. The spec graph is on JBL’s website. I am completely unfamiliar with ’70s JBL but can tell you the 4367s are very flat, deigned for good dispersion in the home and unromantic. They are stereotypical studio monitors but have a laidback presentation. There is not another model you are considering that loads a room l like they do, is well blended from mid to high freq or is as dynamic.

The booming sound from your proac audition was likely a combo of your position and speaker position in relation to the room. Walk around a little during auditions.

@ctsooner Yes you are correct, I’m looking for a good all around full range speaker that can sound great playing all genres of music and when the time comes to crank up Sabbath, Audio Slave, Metallica to 100 db levels and have it hold together and give me excellent bass response. I have listened to the Harbeths but not for me. 

@ohlala I had the JBL L250’s and they could really rock the house down, but play CSN, CCR and Traffic and sound great as well. I guess thats why I really want to hear the 4367’s which seem to have a similar bass response. Wanna hear what the 15” woofer can do with them. I may in fact be disappointed but I need to find that out. 

@benzman To bad I’m on the east coast or I’d take you up on that offer.

So at Axpona they had the Persona 5F running off two
Mac 500 watt per channel monoblocks. The Mac's put out 1 k peaks and we measured over 100 db on Personas from 20 ft away in a 25x 50 ballroom. The Personas never once even showed any signs of stress. If you want to rock it out you are not going to beat the Personas

Benzman, as a Persona Dealer, we absolutely loved your findings.

We would love to sell the A3 for no other reason then they will certaintly be one of the most looked at speakers in that price point and it would add to our outstanding selection of Legacy, Paradigm, KEF, Quad, Dali, ATC, and Elac lines.

With that being said and not having direct experience with the A3 we have always found the Magico line to be extremely well crafted but a bit too refined in their presentation, they were not bright and not dull the sound just seemed to lay there, without any striking qualities for our taste.

The Paradigm Personas may be a controversial product that some people may find bright but we find when they are matched correctly to be one of the most holographic and most transparent speaker systems for the price out there and the bass of the 3F is also surprisingly deep down to 24hz in room which is very similar to the Magico’s bass response of 22hz with a bit greater efficiency.

We would also agree with you that the Persona's can play loudly without distortion, our 9F are being driven by a T+A power amplifier which provides 300watts into an 8ohm load and 500 watts into a 4 ohm load and we can play this system at ear bleeding levels without strain.  

We also believe in the attribute of having the exact same material for the tweeter and midrange being both Beryilium being a huge advantage in having a very coherent sounding loudspeaker. 

At this point there are a few standout new loudspeakers at or around this price point which are very exciting and very high value products that bring the cost of owning a state of the art loudspeaker down in price.

We would say the Personas, the Magico A3, the Kef Reference line and the Sopras’s are four of the best at these price points for the clarity and tranparency camp.

In our minds the Legacy’s Focus are going to be very hard to beat if your tastes go to the warmer richer presentation with deep and puncy bass response.

The Focus are way more efficient, play louder and go lower than most of the other high end loudspeakers from most of the major manufacturers.

We love the Legacy’s for all of their outstanding attributes and superb value for the dollar wlhat is interesting is the sheer difference in bass that you can only get from a larger 12 inch bass driver vs the 7 inch woofers of both the Magico A3 and the Persona 3F, the smaller bass drivers are impressive for their speed and how much deep bass both Magico and Pardigm can get out of these small high tech woofers, but neither of these speakers can do the amount of sheer bass output without distortion that the Legacy’s can put out.

One lovely comment at the last New York Audio Show a person came up to Bill Dudeleston and exclaimed that the Aeris at $25k sounded better than most of the $60k and above loudspeakers he has heard.

We have the previlage of having three reference grade loudspeaker lines Kef, Paradigm and Legacy on display and each of these wondeful lines have their own personalities.

After having been in this industry for over 30 years all of these manuacturers should be congratulated for creating something truly remarkable for a somewhat affordable price point. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

The best rocking speakers under $15k are still in the design phase over at PS Audio & will be based on Arnie Nudell’s final speaker project; the ’IRS-killer’. Those speakers will have active servo-controlled bass drivers & Paul tells me they will really rock! https://www.psaudio.com/askpaul/the-secrets-behind-ps-speakers/

@melbuyone Yes I’ve watched that video myself as well. Maybe that will be my next set of speakers. Like to see what Paul comes up with in the 10K price point. 

For ultra revealing, you should have a listen to the Egglestonworks Rosa SE’s.  Although they lack the lower end bass the Andra’s give you, I actually find the Rosa’s more accurate and revealing with just enough bass to fill out the music (although adding a very small sub completely transforms their sound).  My Wilson W/P’s were more of a “rock” speaker, however the Rosa’s were faster and cleaner when playing very fast, complicated or “full” music.  Seems impossible to find a dealer in the tri-state area with them to demo as US customers seem to only want the bigger Andra’s, but maybe someone here has a pair at home they’d let you listen to?

I’m currently using the McIntosh C50/MC452 combo on Rosa’s.  Good friend has C1000/MC2301’s on a pair of Rosa’s as well.  Amazing sound!

@rhansen162 Actually not looking for ultra revealing. I’m looking for the warmer side of neutral. 

I know you don’t want to change front end but if you are using a Jelco 750 on the Woodpecker, consider the drop-in replacement 850/950 tonearms. Big upgrade.

@noromance That was one of the reasons I went with the Feickert TT over others I was looking at is the ease to swap out Tonearms. Once I get things I bit further I may experiment. 

The 850 literally slides into the same opening. Go for it and good luck!

@ctsooner Point taken.  But all I can say is that hearing Mahler/large symphony orchestra in full hue and cry on the Harbeths produced the most lifelike sound, from the point of view of scale and sheer majesty, that I've heard from any loudspeaker.  Ever.  How that translates into rock, I don't know.

I’ll also suggest the JBL 4367’s as I used to own them. I work for a dealer that sells B&W, PMC, Paradigm, Golden Ear, Dynaudio, McIntosh etc. As a stereo fanatic and installer, I have listened with interest to all of their models in homes and at the showroom.   I prefer the JBL's which we don't sell.

I now own JBL M2’s, which I find a bit less harsh than the 4367’s on most music. They are more harsh on the eyes though, Haha!

twoleftears750 posts08-02-2018 1:40pm@ctsooner Point taken. But all I can say is that hearing Mahler/large symphony orchestra in full hue and cry on the Harbeths produced the most lifelike sound, from the point of view of scale and sheer majesty, that I've heard from any loudspeaker. Ever. How that translates into rock, I don't know.

I"m sure you do.  That's why you love them, but a top speaker will be great on everything.  Ask any of the top designers privately adn they will tell you the same thing.  Harbeths are a really sweet speaker, but not the last word for micro and macro detail.  They don't 'disappear'.  Those are their trade offs. All equipment has trade offs and that's why they all sound differently.  Designers also have different likes and dislikes along with different set of ears and brains :)....

I find many speakers to be boosted 1-3db on the top end (anywhere from 8k up) and it hurts my ears over the long haul.  It just does. There are a couple of speakers (forget which ones) that are boosted a spec up there (it gives the illusion of a larger soundstage) and I don't notice it. I have a pair of Empire Ears Phantoms CIEM's that have that little boost and I love them.  A true reference quality CIEM. We all like different flavors.

Well finally made my decision after listening to just about everything imaginable. Had the Magico A3’s at the top of my list. Went to listen to them one more time and AB’d against Focal Kanta 2, Focal Sopra 2 and Sonus Faber Olympica iii. The Magico won hands done. Only problem was 4-6mth wait with a 5K deposit down..Ouch...too long to wait.

So knowing this I decided to go to CAF the next weekend. . Listened to the entire Legacy line and had incredible help from the staff in the booth and at the end if seemed like the Signature SE’s would best fit my room. Did a couple more rounds listening to everything else I could and when I came back to Legay I knew thats what I wanted. 

 Picked them up this morning and been playing a wide variety of music and so far everything sounds really good. Can’t wait to get some more time on these and fully break them in. So my search is officially over !!

So did you like the Legacys better than the Magicos or just didn't want to wait? 

@mofojo That’s actually a tough question. If the Magicos were available I wouldn’t have went to CAF and ended my search there. But after spending about 4 hours this evening playing all the vinyl that the Kef Ref 3’s made not enjoyable and the Legacy’s really playing them well I’d say I’m very happy with my purchase. I can only say that I hope if I had the A3’s I would be having the same experience and I think I would be.

On another note I learned a valuable lesson with the Kefs. Don’t spend time and money trying to make something work. I swapped out my entire system because I loved the look and finish of the Refs. But in the end all I did was loose more that it was worth.

Devialet Premier Phantom Gold
Bang & Olufsen BeoLab 20