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Best Preamp and Amp combination, interesting finding!!!

Hi all,

Yesterday, I decided to conduct a very interesting experience using my amp and preamp combinations. In the interest of fair discussion and also avoiding brand war, please allow me to conceal the name of the amps and preamps, knowing that both amps and preamps came from the same manufactures. The combinations are as below: 

Combination 1 (C1): $3000 preamp + $1000 amp
Combination 2 (C2): $1000 preamp + $3000 amp.

I went back and forth between C1 and C2 several times with multiple people, using the same speakers and DAC. The volume of both C1 and C2 was adjusted to be equal using my Db meter. 
At the end of the experience, almost everyone including me prefers C1. Which is a higher-end preamp combined with the lower-end amp. 
I was surprised by that finding. I always thought that the amp has a greater impact to sound quality, but my experiment proved otherwise. If you have any similar experiences, please let me know. I would like to understand why it happens that way. Why the preamp has a greater impact on the overall sound quality comparing to the amp?
128x128viethluu
67 responses Add your response
jond's avatar
jond
5,798 posts
 
In a general sense not a surprise at all it's much harder to make a good preamp so a $1K preamp will generally be compromised. It's much easier to produce a good budget amp.
bigkidz
3,381 posts
 
Not always true it depends on the components.


aewarren
644 posts
 
What you may have "proved" is that the C1 amp is a better match for your speakers.
jumia
528 posts
 
Aside from attenuator, not many understand what happens inside the preamp box.  A ten inch signal path inside a box costing $5 to $15k.


I’ll take it !


ghdprentice
6,965 posts
 
I think this is a useful comparison. No, not a scientific study. But since I got into high end audio (1978) I have been under the impression that the preamp was the defining component of the two, and critical in the overall system. I am sure I learned this through reading The Absolute Sound and Stereophile, and probably discussions at high end showrooms. Like any generality, it might not be true in a specific system. But a very good idea to keep in mind when choosing components. I have probably put much more effort into preamp choice versus other components.
ebm
9,311 posts
 
Wow what are you talking about?
jtgofish's avatar
jtgofish
515 posts
 
I have friend with an Audio Flight Strumento power amp and matching Strumento preamp.Those are seriously expensive items.He also kept an Usher 307A preamp which he was using previously with an Usher R1.5 power amp.The Strumento power amp sounds much better combined with the Usher 307A preamp than the far more expensive Strumento preamp.And just to add to the frustration the Usher preamp never sounded very good combined with the Usher power amp.But that power amp sounds excellent with a Supratek preamp.
yyzsantabarbara
4,811 posts
 
I have recent ownership experience with 3 extraordinary preamps. I only mention this because I think they are giant slayers.

- $599 Topping pre90 (clean sound)
- $3000 Benchmark HPA4  (clean sound)
- $7000+ CODA 07x  (almost as clean and  a bit warmer sound)

The Topping and Benchmark will really let you hear only your source and amp. They seem to add nothing to the sound. The CODA also sounds incredible but it adds something beautiful to the sound.
james633
1,023 posts
 
Good write up. 
The volume control has one of the biggest potentials to mess up your sound. This is the critical part of the preamp. 

I have found amps don’t really pull away from cheaper amps until the $6000+ range. $10,000 amps sound a lot better than $3000 generalized of course (there are some cheap super stars) but $1000 amps might not be too different from $3000 amps. Sometimes the price difference is mostly case work. 
mike_in_nc
1,147 posts
 
I suggest: don't over-generalize! What you've found is that in your system, with your room, your source material, and your speakers, that you and your friends prefer C1 to C2. Useful information! But what you have not found is anything more general than that -- nothing about results in other rooms, other systems, other speakers, other musical material, and **especially** not other components, even those in the same price categories.

It is a human tendency to generalize from a small amount of data. If you can limit your conclusions to what you actually have found, you'll be way ahead of many.
antigrunge2
1,404 posts
 
This thread seems borderline meaningless: whereas the preamp is crucial on low voltage phono, all you need for high voltage digital is an attenuator in a reasonably well matched system. And that before you even start accounting for mismatches between preamps and amps: Dooh….
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,198 posts
 
Well frankly it is really pretty meaningless except for the specific gear tested. What were those again?  Also price alone means nothing except how much you will pay.
mulveling's avatar
mulveling
1,895 posts
 
Preamp transitions in my system have been the hardest of all components. Beyond the obvious sonic signature at a "macro" level, they also do a zillion subtle sonic things that gets ingrained into your perception of sound over time. With phono stage and amps it's either instantly "yep it's better" or "nope it's not" and that's that. 
russ69's avatar
russ69
3,501 posts
 
Soix3 sums it up nicely. 
soix
9,456 posts
 
Yeah, lots of variables here obviously, but one of my biggest “aha” moments in audio was discovering just how important a preamp is to the sound of a system — in my system it’s third behind the room and speakers.  This is a good public service announcement to those who still think a preamp is just an input switcher and volume control. 
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
In order to ask that question you first have to know the preamp does indeed have a greater impact. So far all you know is between those two unnamed ones it does. 


winoguy17
1,119 posts
 
To me, the pre amp is the heart of the system.
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