Best Dedicated Streamer

+1 @charles1dad , absolutely correct

My contention is that both the DAC and streamer are important and require equal attention and consideration.

I have physically had the Grimm vs Antipodes.  Grimm is lovely but has limited outputs (AES only) and is at its best upscaling.  I don’t know the Canary DAC well.  If it is best with a bit perfect signal that is not upscaled, Grimm is a poor choice.  If it is a DAC that does well with upscaling like the Holo May, it is superb.

if you have a DAC that is best with a simple, bit perfect signal that has not been up scaled, Antipodes is maybe your best bet.  The K50 would be spot on your price range and had many more output options.  Because of the dual computers (one for server, one for player) it outperforms many other units with Roon.

Hi, has anyone compared Melco S10 to Nordost Qnet with the Qsource power supply ? Thank you!

After being bitten by the streaming bug I purchased a Node as almost everyone does. While I don't have the budget for the higher end brands nor way up a specific brands line-up's.

So I purchased what I could afford, a Lumin U1 Mini (U2 Mini is now the current model and U1's are starting to show up preowned). The only thing the Node has in common with the Lumin is they are both classified as streamers lol.

Every element of my SQ improved dramatically! 

The issue with streamers is like computers, they are/will outdate themselves faster than any other HiFi component.

And I agree, Roon is a must. I have demoed Tidal (with an MQA ready DAC), Qobuz and Amazon HD... All stand alone and in Audirvana (not for Amazon).

So, for me I dispelled my curiosity with MQA. 24/96 & 24/192 sound superior to me IMHO.

Roon/Qobuz is a clear winner in SQ.... 

I have been happy with Innuos. Works great with Roon. I plugged in a 2TB USB for backups.  Works seamlessly.

I have owned a Grimm MU-1 since December'19.

At that time the Taiko was its main competitor. 

Both units did very well, but I ended up with the Grimm as I could listen to music for umpteen hours (6-8 hour sessions) without any fatigue.

The Grimm does it all in presentation of the music without drawing any attention to itself.

It was my first ever streamer in my system, and its need for not having added paraphernalia like clocks, switches and other components showcases the research that they have done.

Someone did mention that the choice of AES/EBU cable is the most you would need to your musical tastes. I used the one which they used in their factory, which was a simple studio quality 110ohm cable.

I don't have the urge to find any other streamer or a need for upgrade since I have had this unit.

Definitely a must audition unit, as it out does the transport in my Playback Designs player.

So, I spent about 3 years running down a solution for my setup.

I have two main requirements (besides superb audio quality of course):

- I2S digital output from the dedicated Streamer to my DAC

- Roon Ready certification

I also require PCM 384 and DSD 256 as well, since those are what my DAC supports. You may have different needs.  Oh, and I really prefer a US made AND supported product.

My search led me to Musica Pristina and the A Capella III Streamer. 

Hand built in US. Integrated LPS and I2S support.

I sold a Streamer that cost over twice as much ($12K US) after doing a risk free 30 day evaluation of the A Capella III. Kevin at Musica Pristina is the designer and was incredibly helpful and completely willing to allow 30-day trial with Zero restocking fee.

Just some observations that might be helpful to consider.

It seems the best results from streaming are achieved via reclocking the digital output and serving up the cleanest, lowest jitter and distortion signal to the DAC.

The magic is in the code of the digital filters used in reclocking. Grimm Audio, Antipodes and Auralic for instance make a point of their filters and spdif outputs.

There will never be a best, it all changes too fast.

There is no right way to optimise a network. Some devices really benefit from a super dooper network, some are quite immune ... and everything in between.

It would be wise to start with a solid network before auditioning, you need a steady reference. Once you choose a streamer, you can exoeriment with scaling back or improving the network.

There is so much to say about the improvements to networking that can be done, but I wont so as to not derail this topic. But I will say, every bit can matter if you system reveals it - which can equally be a curse and opportunity. Also don’t overlook the router. Plenty of info on AudiophileStyle.

Don’t overlook the importance of the server, it’s job is really to minimise workload on the streamer.

Some sample rate conversion by the server can be beneficial, at least due to the benefit of reconstruction filters rather than super high rate.

Enjoy the journey.

Coincidentally we started testing streamers on the market to pair with DENAFRIPS DACs. You may find the following article of interest to you.

• Streamer X DAC Project

Happy listening,

Alvin Chee 

www.vinshineaudio.com

Someone else mentioned Lucas Domansky and his LDMS.  Custom made and absolutely the finest addition to my system.  It simply blew away my SMG, my Aurender, and my Aurilac. And a great value to boot.  It was hard for me to believe a streamer could have such an impact on SQ.  The LDMS and my recent Lampi DAC simply transformed my system.

And don’t forget a proper DAC, I use Bricasti M1 SE into Pass Labs XP-22 pre-amp  and am really happy with this setup. 

Grimm MU1, also invest in a proper switch like Ansuz powerswitch D2 and for good results Ansuz Digitalz D-TC2 ethernet cable between switch and MU1

@tracyiver  Well everyone loves thier streamer.  @metaldetektor Not many love thieir $2 plug. All’s fair in audio love and war

Consider 432evo, already mentioned and with a fully scalable solution.

Also Lampizator has just launched a new streamer, if it has the same quality of its products, it will be very good

Consider 432evo, already mentioned and with a fully scalable solution.

Also Lampizator just has launched a new streamer, if it has the same quality of its products, it will be very good

@jonwolfpell- not only is Innuos a Roon endpoint as you mentioned, it can also serve as a Roon server. I have ripped many CDs through my Innuos Zenith and I agree that it sounds as good if not better than expensive CD transports. 

Another vote for Innuos. Works great, sounds great. Simple to use w/ no unnecessary displays on the unit that you probably can't see from your listening chair anyway  & are all on their app on your laptop, ipad or phone. Roon endpoint if so desired & rips CD's quickly & they may sound even better than listening directly to the CD transport. 

@wokeuptobose @ghasley 

Another Grimm endorsement here. Besides the outstanding sound quality, I appreciate the greatly simplified set-up --- no more fancy switch, or ethernet cable, or outward linear power supplies. I use it with a $2 generic power cable, and put my good PCs on my other components. The only add-on I found worthwhile was a good digital AES cable -- I like Black Cat's cable for that.

You can email me @ verti333@gmail.com.

WokeuptoBose, I’d like to follow up with you on your Grimm comments but don’t know how to send a PM on here?.. 

I know you said you did not need a DAC but at your budget, the Lumin X-1 is a tremendous DAC/Stremer and very easy to use.  It is not built in the USA but I have had 4 of them.  

If you want an end-game music server, please look up Lucas Audio,  Ok, they are based out of Poland and the UK but their music server is incredible and Lucas Domansky, the owner is a computer genius and offers 24/7 service.  If nothing else give him a call on WhatsApp.  You will be convinced after talking to him.  Even though I now have a Lampizator Pacific DAC, the Lucas Audio Music Server is the component that took my system to musical bliss.

Have a look at Antipodes from New Zealand.

Very well reviewed as being exceptionally well made with fantastic sound, their after sales service is second to none.

Ian

+1 for Melco

+1 for charles 1 dad

@facten He told me if you want to hear more of what the DAC can provide to upgrade the transport. Bought a Simaudio 260DT and it was evident that the Cambridge was holding the Mojo back. It’s not going to be any different with the quality of a streamer.

Yep!

When ever I see people post “bits are bits” I recognize it as an attempt to sound informed, when that retort implies otherwise. Some folks just really downplay the importance of the source. It is so obvious that better digital sources matter significantly.

Charles

I enjoy my iFi Zen Stream.  It's ROON ready but I use it with Tidal currently.  Sounds fantastic and is very well regarded in the audiophile community if that means anything to you.  

@charles1dad +1 . I don't stream but it is readily evident that what a DAC is capable of delivering is dependent upon a quality source feeding it.  I had never focused much on the transport until I purchased a Mojo Audio EVO DAC. Ben from Mojo asked me what transport I'd be using, I told him a Cambridge CXC  (a decent CD transport). He told me if you want to hear more of what the DAC can provide to upgrade the transport. Bought a Simaudio 260DT and it was evident that the Cambridge was holding the Mojo back. It's not going to be any different with the quality of a streamer.

@ghasley 

There is a post above that says “it’s all about the DAC”. I believe that is bad information. The quality of the streamer is critical to achieving superb sound quality. My contention is that both the DAC and streamer are important and require equal attention and consideration. No doubt your experiences attest to that.

Charles

@charles1dad +1

Recently changed from Innuos Zenith Mk3 to the Grimm MU1. Full disclosure, I loved my Innuos and could have lived happily ever after. If that describes you, if you are happy with what you already have then don’t demo a Grimm. Its a completely different animal and you can’t unhear the increased performance. Simply amazing.

@wokeuptobose It appears that Grimm has sorted clean power and low jitter to a level that other manufacturers have not yet achieved.  So for 12K invested in a Grimm you get a built in Roon Core, 4 to 8 TBs of storage, a world class streamer, AND you don't need to spend 7 to 8 K on ethernet enhancements and power cords. The Grimm is also designed to feed any other manufacturer's DAC which appeals to me.

This is why I provided the Grimm link earlier in this thread. With the stated budget there are very good options to choose among. The Grimm MU is very formidable. Granted it is not made in the USA.

Charles

If you want a streamer from a U.S. company, you may want to look at Laufer Teknik Memory Player.  I personally use one customized by the owner / engineers of the company, incredible streamer and very happy with the performance in my 2-channel system.

I have had 3 Wolf Audio streamers in my system as I moved up the line to the Red Wolf. You cannot beat their customer service and product quality. I still purchase music so having the ability to rip music was important to me as was being able to stream.Contact Joe and he will put together a unit that will exceed your expectations.

It's going to be hard to beat the Grimm or a Pink faun but for the money Musica Pristina A Capella 3 is a really good choice.

Metrum Acoustics Ambre.

Great Roon end point.

Another plug for Innous. Hard wired direct to my router with no special cables or filters. I do use their power supply. Sounds fabulous and their app is very good. Stram Tidal, radio stations, and my cd collection. And my Thorens sits sad and neglected. 

The Musica Pristina A Cappella III streamer is made in North Carolina. With a Nucleus or Intel NUC to run ROON. Couldn’t be happier (end game for me) and Kevin Walsh, the owner, provides wonderful support.  

Currently use Lumin but have recently demoed Innuos and Aurender. Innuos worked without glitches over a 2 month demo period. The only issue I found was it took a while t lock into my network but once it locked in it stayed connected. I felt that the Innuos Zenith MK III was a few notches above the others.

I’m not sure how far along you are in your process, but I highly recommend you spend $$ on your internet infrastructure. If you don’t get that part to an optimum level, no matter what you do after the connection, you will be limiting the full potential of any equipment.

@audiotroy interesting line of product you have.

Let us know how you make out!

I'm very happy with my Innuos Zenith Mk3, and adding the Phoenix USB has been hugely beneficial. 

Both were bought recently, and even though I've been ripping my old CDs, I pretty much only listen now to Qobuz.  So, maybe it would have been wiser to have waited for the new Innuos Pulsar.  

1. Whatever streamer you may chose, first improve the network. As a minimum, install a decent audio switch such as SOtM SNH-10g (best with full upgrades) and an external power supply such as SOTM SPS 1000 or Ferrum Hypsos. If possible, enter it through fiber and SFPs from Finisar. This will be a huge improvement for whatever streamer you choose. Better than these, just get the Melco S10 (not S100).

2. What is your preferred input to work with your DAC? If you like USB, I have found nothing better than Melco N10. Most Innuos and other brands are OK, but their USBs are noisy and need external reclocking. People will tell you they are happy with the USB from other manufacturers, because they have not heard better. Using DDC brings benefits but is yet another way to fix a problem you should not have in the first place. The Melco does not need extra crap, their implementation of the USB port is superb, the best I have heard. If you would rather use AES/EBU or even better, I2S, then the best are Grim Audio or Antipodes Oladra.

3. Which one to choose depends also on the rest of your system for sound matching and the type of sound you like. For thorough reviews please go to Hi Fi Advice and check their music server reviews for Grim and Antipodes. For something better than these two you would need to spend more than $60K and get diminished results from brands such as Wadax.

Hope this helps, it comes from a lot of personal experience and research. I do small private reviews and A/B comparisons for friends, one is a high end audio shop owner with plenty trade ins, the other is a high end distributor. I enjoy testing as part of my hobby.

I recently attended a presentation by Lynn introducing their new Klimax Streamer/DAC. $50k if memory serves. I asked what the new product had inside besides the DAC which made it reach the new levels he described and we heard.

His reply "The DAC is everything" .

That said I would shop DACs carefully and spend my money there.

I own an Innuos that has no DAC but rips, Streams and stores.

Made in Portugal. Support people very responsive.

For my money it is perfect. Is the Grimm better? Or is it a Grimm fairy tale?

Maybe just Grimm and bear it.

It is $10k more so lets hope so.

Odd thing is nobody reviews streamers against

each other as is done with other equipment. Why? Perhaps it is

as the old Blue Bonnet margarine French Chef ad stated " Pas difference".

Do make the right connections from router. Buy an Uptone Audio Etherregen.

And enjoy the new music you will discover with Roon. BTW Roon has no support

at all!. 

Innuos has its own sorting/search software called Innuos Sense. Rumor has it that

Roon degrades the SQ.  Not so with the InSense or so they claim.

I do like Qobuz. Hope they survive.

Also suggest the small green computer rendu roon player via usd to dac.  My house is 6 years old and built with standard cat 5, using recommended cat 5 on Amazon.   Roon core is a Microsoft surface 7.  My only issue was using Amazon hd via iPad.  The orbiter has an apple simulation called shareport  which to my ears is not up to the roon mode. maybe blasphemy, but since I prefer Amazon’s ai to find new playlists, using a 40 dollar chromecast audio via optical cable with a Lenovo tablet.  

I switched from a dCS Vivaldi Upsampler to a Grimm MU1 about 6 months ago.  It took me about 15 min. of an in home dealer demo (via UPS) to decide the Grimm was playing in a different league. If you are interested read the reviews on the Grimm and the interviews on Youtube, as I found them to be accurate to my listening experience. I didn't believe the company's claims that you don't need the usual exotic power and internet treatments, but I have found their claims to be true. By replacing the factory power cord with a Shunyata Sigma or Alpha V2 NR cord I can make it sound slightly different, but I can't tell if it's better. I also had the whole two Farad LPSs with all the upgrades, Afterdark 10MHz clock with $450 clock cable, all tied to my Etherrgen and several higher end Ethernet cables. I went naked for fun, that is I plugged the "house wire" CAT 6 cable with no switch other than the utility house switch to the Grimm. Without the big time switch, cables. and clocking, my decay and leading edge definition were better and still digital glare and sibilance didn't show up. All that extra gear did help my previous streamer, but it sounded like a filter with the Grimm. It was a humbling experience. It appears that Grimm has sorted clean power and low jitter to a level that other manufacturers have not yet achieved.  So for 12K invested in a Grimm you get a built in Roon Core, 4 to 8 TBs of storage, a world class streamer, AND you don't need to spend 7 to 8 K on ethernet enhancements and power cords. The Grimm is also designed to feed any other manufacturer's DAC which appeals to me as well. If you PM me I will tell you what Grimm dealer let me do the free in home trial. This is a difficult post to write, but I went down the wrong road for the right reasons. For me, learning is one of the joys of this hobby.  I encourage you to seek out a  free Grimm in home trial and experience the grimm within your audio ecosystem. I think you will be very happy you did so,

What impressed me when I got a Hegel 190 was how much it improved streaming music (which wasn't a particularly high priority thing for me). I wouldn't call myself highly informed, but a subject for research would be what the amplifier stage does for streaming sound.

we are the us importers 432EVO music servers these are made in Belgiium serviced in nj

our servers are fully modular and upgradeable

we have gotten rave reviewsfrom the absolute sound and positive feedback and a new review will be out soon in Stereotimes

we outperform innous and grimm 

the absolute sound reviewer actually purchased the review sample

please reach out to our office for more info

Dave and Troy

Audio Intellect nj

@tracyiver ,

I have the red wolf 2 sx.

joe Parvey can make you one even though it says to be released soon in the website.

I had the wolf 3sx and joe upgraded it to the red wolf with a separate linear power supply. You can see that in my system profile .

imo it beat the innuos statement , flagship aurender and lumin u1.

taiko extreme even though I haven’t heard it in my system ,I think it sounds better . My good friend uses the taiko as his streamer . But of course it’s not made in America and wolf audio has very good customer care and that’s why I haven’t upgraded to the taiko .

Thank you one and all. Am curious about the Wolf Audio devices.

What will the Red Wolf be when commercialized and where will it sit in their streamers portfolio?

+1 on the Sonore products from Small Green Computer and the recommendation to put some effort to optimizing the home network

If you can come off your network switch via fiber instead of cat6 is a road less traveled but has some distinct advantages that will result in improved SQ

I would agree with @newtoncr that you should consider or research the Wolf Audio Systems Alpha 3SX or Red Wolf.  I have had my Alpha 3SX for 3 years - Stereophile Class A. 

You should look at the streamers from wolf audio .

Made in America .

https://wolfaudiosystems.com/
 

I have been using them for over 2 yrs and chose them over the lumin and aurender 

Personally I have tried very good streamers and in my home not worth $5k+

since I have a very advanced dedicated line using awg10 Copper wire Pure silver contacts 30 amp line on a separate copper buzz bar ,and 2 inch silver plated grounding Rod .  It made a night and day difference in inner detail and black back ground  .little green computer with linear power supply using SS  drives .

over $4k i digital cables ,I have a uptone ether regen which is very respectable .

the synergistic research Ethernet hub is the best I have tried for streaming .

itretailsover $2k I can get $20 % off that , the Denafrips Terminator + I am buying soon it’s the best dac under $12k I have tried and this includes the chord Dave ,

land Holo springs may KTE  within the last 6 weeks . In NewEngland we have a nice multi state Audiophiles that we visit and share .i owned a Audio store until 2010 .i have learned many ways to get great results for much less monies  then many $$ audio systems.