First of all, they do not exist for tube equipment, maybe there is a hybrid out there I am not aware of, but for all practical purposes anything with XLR connections is going to be solid state.
@billstevenson This statement is false. You might be interested to know that the first balanced line preamp offered to high end audio was the Atma-Sphere MP-1, which we still make. It has an all-tube signal path. FWIW, balanced line equipment first appeared in the 1950s, although back then output transformers were used to produce the balanced inputs and outputs. Our MP-1 is transformerless- we patented a method of direct-coupling instead.
When using XLR connectors be aware that Japanese audio manufacturers use a different configuration for pin for ground.
@toronto416 Its more likely they have pin 2 of the XLR wired as inverting and pin 3 non-inverting (which is opposite of US products). In all countries pin 1 is always ground.
The only potential adverse impact is that the output impedance of the XLR connection might be 2-3 times high. If you have an amplifier with low input impedance, such as a valve amp, you might run into impedance matching issue.
@lanx0003 Usually XLR outputs have considerably lower output impedance than RCA outputs. Its typical in a balanced line setup to see input impedances as low as 600 Ohms (which most modern opamps can drive) although in high end audio input impedances can be 10K to 100K. Our tube preamps can drive 600 Ohms no worries.
balanced in my view relates to when you have really long cable runs which many of us do not.
@emergingsoul The reason to use a balanced connection should be to eliminate ground loops and cable artifact. A proper (AES48) balanced connection will do that. Its worth noting that a lot of 'high end audio' balanced equipment does not support AES48 even though it's balanced. The benefit is there even if the cable is only 6" long.
My understanding is, by definition, single-ended-triode (SET) operation involves amplifying the entire signal with only one output device. A balanced circuit cannot be built this way. But I may be incorrect.
@dseltz Actually an SET has a differential input (but isn't balanced). Most of the time that input amplifies what is different (hence the name 'differential) between the RCA jack and ground. In case you're wondering, the other input to the input tube is the cathode. One way you can tell the input is differential is that if the grid and cathode are tied together there will be no amplification. If your preamp has a balanced output and has an output impedance low enough to drive the cathode, it is possible for the SET to receive and process both phases of the balanced signal. It won't be balanced, but it will be in the differential domain.
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+1 maxdukecapone
I own the Arik Audio Motherload XL. Balanced following the AES48 standard, also with RCA. It is a well made, beautifully sounding pre-amp. And dead quiet. I have two amps, the Atmasphere Class D (a beautiful pairing) as well as a Radu Tarta SET 45 amp. These also sound wonderful together, but a SET does not have XLR inputs (AES48 standard). My understanding is, by definition, single-ended-triode (SET) operation involves amplifying the entire signal with only one output device. A balanced circuit cannot be built this way. But I may be incorrect.
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VAC, BAT, Atma-Sphere & Aesthetix all make tube preamps that are truly balanced. Most BAT models have only balanced inputs & outputs. My VAC has both types. Cheers,
Spencer
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Balanced interface is superior to single ended, not matched impedance RCA (or DIN) one, because:
1) truly balanced (not pseudo) interface has common mode noise rejection, which eliminates / reduces noise between two connected devices chassis / gnds, RCA (or unbalanced DIN), transfer all noise to the signal.
2) balanced interface, originally designed for 600 Ohm driver / receiver impedance match, eliminates problem of time delayed signal reflections from original signal, thus enables long cables w/o tangible signal quality loss).
3) balancing in RCA or other single ended interconnects can be achieved by adding isolating / balancing transformers, but good performing transformer is costly.
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I think people who like balanced enjoy plugging in the cables more than RCA. They look really cool.
I have a Conrad Johnson gat2 preamp which does not offer balanced. by Having both balanced and unbalanced to me means they gotta spend more money duplicating circuits and I would prefer they spend even more money on one circuitry related to the unbalanced. Why spend money on stuff you're not gonna use and after all, balanced in my view relates to when you have really long cable runs which many of us do not. But they are really cool to plug-in.
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When I had an all Aesthetix system I used XLR cabling. Fast forward to current day and my complete Conrad Johnson system, as all CJ gear, is single ended. I have no issues with noise and the sound is fabulous. My cabling is all Audience Front Row.
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RCA or XLR preamp? If you have a power amplifier with balanced IN, surely the preamp with XLR in-out would be good choice.
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I always use an XLR connection because, in my experience, the sound is better (with volume matched) than the unbalanced outputs.
If the design is truly balanced, the higher output level from XLR can generally contribute to better sound (again, when volume matched) due to a higher SNR and lower noise floor in terms of THD+N. Apart from the well-known benefit of better noise rejection, handling the signal path separately for + and - significantly reduces crosstalk (see below).
The only potential adverse impact is that the output impedance of the XLR connection might be 2-3 times high. If you have an amplifier with low input impedance, such as a valve amp, you might run into impedance matching issue.
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@billstevenson a tube preamp can be differentially balanced and even be direct coupled.
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I use XRL when ever possible. I find better sound than with RCA
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I have not owned a single ended tubed preamp that did not produce unwanted noise over the cabling. I made the switch to an ARC preamp and was able to put balanced cables in all the way through from DAC to amp. Best move I ever made to significantly reduce noise and hash. Now I have a black background. If there are single end tubed preamps that are quiet, I certainly didn't have any luck finding them like some others have.
YMMV
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Spatial Audio Lab Raven Preampr Has some of each.
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Rogue Audio has tube preamps with both RCA and XLR outputs. I have the RP-7 that has two sets of each, and I believe the RP-9 has the same. I am quite pleased with sound quality achieved with my RP-7 and my Odyssey monobloc solid state amplifiers.
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When using XLR connectors be aware that Japanese audio manufacturers use a different configuration for pin for ground.
So if using say a US made pre-amp with a Japanese amp you need to make sure they are using the same pins for ground. Accuphase amps have a selector for this.
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For me it was more about flexibility. I like having both because not all power amps have both. Also, I'm thinking about getting some high-end active powered speakers. I can use my existing preamp to switch between my powered speakers and passive speakers between both sets of speakers without changing cables. Balanced cables are supposed to have a lower noise floor especially for longer runs but I think in reality it doesn't matter that much for the average audiophile.
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My Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL tube preamp has one balanced input. The rest are unbalanced. I asked LTA if there was any benefit to using the balanced input. They said it would depend on the strengths of the connected device. My dac has both balanced and unbalanced outputs.
I'm using unbalanced because my best cables are unbalanced.
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Ayre is all solid state, no tubes. The OP wants balanced and rca on a tube preamp.
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I use Ayre equipment.....all the components even the phono are balanced
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The short answer to your question is, it is not a good idea to base your decision on which preamp to buy solely on the basis of balanced outputs. First of all, they do not exist for tube equipment, maybe there is a hybrid out there I am not aware of, but for all practical purposes anything with XLR connections is going to be solid state. Nothing wrong with that, if that is what you want of course. Next let me share a recent experience with you, admittedly this is only anecdotal, but I think it helps to frame this discussion. In my main system, my line stage is a Conrad Johnson ART Phono, this is that company's current top unit, and retails for $28K. It is pretty good. It has only RCA of course, because it is a tube preamp. For my second home I recently put together a new system. For it I purchased an integrated Marantz PM10 and it has XLR connections. I also have on hand a Precision line stage, a $50K unit. While I had these all together one of the things I did was compare XLR and RCA connectors. Without getting into great detail, I learned that both the C-J and the Precision line stages sounded better than than the Marantz PM10 the one integrated into the unit even when using RCA connectors (Audio Sensibility Statement Silver). That should surprise no one. I also learned that RCA connectors as above sounded better than a Shunyata XLR connector (Gamma) when used to connect either of two cd players (Luxman D-10X or Marantz SA10). So, from that I conclude that there is more to the matter than merely what kind of connectors are used. Therefore, that is not a good criterion for basing a decision on what component to buy. It might be a tie breaker if all else was equal, because when I compared two equal connectors one RCA and the other XLR there was a small difference in favor of the latter. Let me be clear, though, with emphasis on the fact the the difference was small.
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The quality and sonic characteristics of the preamp are of the highest importance and the interconnect capabilities are of a vastly smaller or of no importance. But the world is slowly migrating to balanced. On some equipment they may sound slightly better.
For instance, I compared balanced and unbalanced on my current Audio Research equipment and I couldn’t tell the difference. Audio Research recommends balanced, but does a great job of converting to non-balanced.
If all else is equal... and it virtually never is... you want the option for either. There is a slow migration from unbalanced to balanced. You can save money by using unbalanced since often quality interconnects are much cheaper.
If I could get an older high end Conrad Johnson preamp for instance, that did not have balanced over a much lessor preamp with balanced. I would do it.
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I never use balanced unless I have to. you've already gotten the advice to always go balanced.
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You might want to search the topics on Balanced tech. And, PM fellow Audiogoner Ralph Karsten (atmasphere).
Though a piece of equipment might have balanced input/outputs, if it doesn't support the AES standard, then all bets are off. True balanced design will remove the grounding issues and allow the cables to work while minimizing inherent 'cable sound'.
Also, you need a system that can allow you to hear the difference between XLR and RCA. A basic system might not let you enjoy the benefits that you would enjoy with a higher resolving system. My 2 cents...
Bob
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