Today I picked up my Atma-Sphere Class D Amps. These aren’t broken in yet. And they are simply amazing. I’ve listen to a lot of High End Class D. Some that cost many times what Atma-Sphere Class D costs. I wasn’t a fan of any of them. But these amps are amazing. I really expected to hate them. So my expectations were low. The Details are of what I’ve never heard from any other amps. They are extremely neutral. To say the realism is is extremely good is a gross understatement. They are so transparent it’s scary. These amps just grab you and suck you into the music. After I live with them some and get them broken in. And do some comparisons to some other high end Amps Solid State, Tubes and Class D’s, also in other systems I’ll do a more comprehensive review. But for now, these are simply amazing amps.. Congrats to Ralph and his team. You guys nailed on these.
It is the truth that anything conductive on top of the transformer or in the middle will mess up the sound.....so, you don’t want non magnetic stainless steel, brass or anything like that. You want plastic or wood.....wood being preferable. You can tie your transformer down using glue and wire ties.....works great. A steel plate on top of the transformer will mess up the sound. This is truth.
Hot rodding does not always look good.....what do you care what the amp looks like from behind?
You can make an even better AC filter and put it on a board....much better sonically than the ones that are encased in steel.....way better. Audiophile fuses most always make a sonic improvement.....it has nothing to do with voltage drop. They all have a sound (every brand of fuse sounds different)......just like the AC inlet has a sound. The one you are using is not as good of SOUNDING inlet as a Furutech.....and even the various versions of Furutech inlets sound different from each other.
You are wrong about op amps......every opamp made TODAY sounds different from every other op amp made today. None of them have "no sound". The best discrete op amps are simply more real sounding than any "chip" op amp. I have listened to even the latest op amps and still none of them are as good as a great discrete circuit.......they are getting close.....but to get the last bit of depth, palpability and realism......no....not there yet. And any circuit is only as good as the regulators, AC power, fuses. capacitors, bypass caps, wire, resistors (yes, every brand of surface mount resistor has a SOUND).
The reason I KNOW all this is because I do serious listening tests. This is the only way to KNOW something is real. This is not philosophy or something YOU THINK is real. When you hear it....you KNOW. You have to have a willingness to really KNOW and an openess to find out.....it is not about pre conceived notions. You do listening tests to blow your mind.....not to confirm your bias. The ego wants to define and defend. The soul wants to expand and love. The ears just listen and know. The heart feels and knows.
Kuribo,
Being right and making people wrong is just an ego game. If you have not listened with an open mind to what I am taling about then you have NO KNOWLEDGE....just words. Knowledge is direct experience....not "thinking you know". If you want to KNOW something about audio....then you have to listen.....without prejudice. Are all the thousands of people worldwide who have listened to audiophile fuses and love them and describe the sound of different brands all hypnotized by the "snake oil salesmen"?.......are we all that stupid? CAN WE TRUST OUR EARS?........I believe so. What I share with others is what I have learned from listening. When I get a benefit sonically, I want to share it with the world because most people who LISTEN and TRY what I suggest find the same truth....they hear pretty much the same thing and their sound is benefited. I want people to have better sound....that is why I share......what is your purpose here?
I want people to have better sound....that is why I share......what is your purpose here?
Of course I listen, I just don’t put much stock in the fabulous, unsupported claims posted as fact by a biased, self interested, guru constantly peddling his wares on a non-commercial venue.
We each have our own truth, which isn't always the same truth for each of us. Your problem is you think your truth is the only truth, or at least act that way as it is fundamental to your scam. You might garner more respect if you actually designed an amp on your own rather than messed with solid, well engineered products of others, advertising your "improvements" as "truth", when they are unsupported by any actual legitimate testing. You are a living testament to audio nervousa, numerous listening biases, and ignorance.
So, what you are saying is: Your purpose here is to make sure everyone knows that what I say cannot be trusted"? Wow, that is a very high purpose. Your soul must be celebrating. So, what wares am I peddling with my post?
You can test FOR YOURSELF....what I say.....by trying it in your system....and see if you hear any difference or not. Of course, if you do listening tests with total prejudice then you will never hear anything. If you live in the bay area you can come over to my house and I will demonstrate things that will blow your mind to kingdom come. Are you open to learning? Or do you want to just say the same things over and over?
Since you do not listen to the things I state....then you have no knowledge....plain and simple.....you just have a thought that what I say is wrong......but you will not test it yourself....sad.....so easily tested.
The thousands of audiophiles all over the world that listen to wires, fuses, jacks, etc......are LIVING PROOF that these things are real. What proof (listening tests) do you have that what they all say is wrong? Please share.
So what you are saying must be that you have listened to the new Class D amplifiers from Atmasphere, you have tried the modifications you suggested in these amps and you have identified each of your mods as improvements? You state that op-amps "upgrades" in the Atmasphere will improve things but Ralph clearly stated that his circuit is different so the differences in op-amps are moot, the speaker cable pigtail idea is potentially dangerous and not appropriate in a professionally built product offered to the public for sale and your glue the transformer hack seems kindof semi-permanent let alone goofy.
I’m not saying your tweaks don’t work in pedestrian gear (Topping? The amps you build?) but Ralph stated that your suggestions are not material improvements in his design.
Of course, if you do listening tests with total prejudice then you will never hear anything.
True, as is the converse, which you are living proof of: if you do listening tests with total prejudice then you will hear everything.
Who are you to say what I have and haven't tried, tested, and listened to? You haven't a clue.
Plenty of people have tried a lot of goofy things- some swear they hear a difference, others swear they can't. This isn't proof positive that what you claim is "truth" in a real, objective way. There have been plenty of bona fide scientific tests of cables, etc., etc., and most results show no differences. Of course then people like you like to jump in with "you aren't measuring the right things!" or "it can't be measured!". What if the differences are actually not in the article being tested but in the listener's head? The simplest explanation is usually the correct one and when modern science which can measure just about anything to levels beyond human cognizance, the far more likely explanation to why some people can hear a difference and others can't is simply that perceptions differ between people. There are a list of reasons why this can be that have been rigorously tested. All you offer is "trust me, it's TRUE"! Sorry, that's religion, and I don't need a profiteering guru to tell me what I can and can't hear.
The tweaks I suggest are universal.....every amp in every price category would improve it's sound to the same degree (assuming they are made like the Atmas). this includes the op amps......it does not matter how much feedback or how much gain is being used.....the sonic signature remains.......this will always be so.....everything has a sound.
The speaker cable plastic clampy thang is not dangerous.....you can mount the plastic hardware on something and no metal is exposed. I’ve always liked Goofy.....one of my favs. Check out the speaker ideas page on my website and you will see some plastic speaker wire clamps mounted on an external xover. Perfectly safe.
What Ralph believes is what he believes......only truth is truth.....you have to listen to know what is true in audio.......What you believe is what you believe......it is best to BE LIVE.......and that means LISTEN......then you will KNOW.
Shall we get back to listening impressions of the amp?
Will anyone try the steel removal and let us know? Be bold.....go where no one else would go.....do it for the gipper or your mother, or God or for YOU.
BE, LIVE, LISTEN, KNOW......and while you are at it....LOVE and JOY!
What little credibility you might have once had is now gone. You have basically just said Ralph doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to op amps in his own design. You've never heard it and yet you imply that he didn't hear what he heard after YEARS of development on the product.
I predict you will delete your posts in this thread OR you are so falsely arrogant about what you think you know that you will double down. #zerocredibility
People believe and say and do all kinds of things......does not make it true.....same for me. What I state about op amps is my experience.....if Ralph has a different EXPERIENCE then that is fine. The only way to know what is true in this case is to try a discrete op amp in place of the one he uses and listen. I am not doing that....are you? So, neither of us knows what would happen......but since my experience has been universal (that is, no matter where and how you use an op amp......it has a sonic signature)......I bet it would be the same here.
This is what Ralph stated: "Our input buffer has a gain of 2, which is to say there’s a lot of feedback and with modern opamps, as long as you don’t ask more than about 20dB or so, they will be as neutral as you can get."
The above statement is not my experience......again, no matter how much feedback...all op amps sound different (and none of them are neutral)....all of them: discrete and Integrated circuit ones.
BTW, Nord, Apollon, VTV, etc. sell amps that have discrete input buffer option....so you can roll op amps......all op amp options sound different from each other.....this buffer is on the input of a class D Purifi module......it uses very little gain.....just like Ralph......you can also put adapter boards in these discrete op amp input boards with regular op amps on them.....yes, they sound different again....and not as good as the discrete ones.....go read their sites......email them....they will tell you about how different they sound......I am not the only one in the world with this experience.....lots and lots of people have rolled the latest op amps.......
Shall we move on? Or shall we keep talking about things that we cannot prove?
I’m not the one making claims about a product you’ve never seen or heard. I don’t doubt that in your experience with the gear you’ve had at hand that your experience is valid. With that said, I get mild indigestion when some hop on a thread to pontificate when they have absolutely no experience with the topic. Just because you’ve rolled op-amps on some class d amps doesn’t make you qualified to discuss and suggest modifications to an amplifier with which you have no qualifications or experience.
This thread was about Atmasphere class d amps...it was not a casting call. If you had posted to a thread entitled "Let’s discuss modifications you’ve made to pedestrian class d amplifiers that made improvements" I assure you I would have perused your comments and moved on. I dont own and never have owned any Atmasphere gear, I don’t know Ralph other than through the scores of truly helpful posts here on Audiogon.
I figured you would double down on your position...but let’s agree to disagree...you believe your opinion on Ralph’s new amplifiers and whether you could improve upon the design is relevant...I do not.
@atmasphereRalph, I haven't heard your amps ,best wishes for success with them. You are always a gentleman on any thread and once again so in your responses on this one. Always look forward to your insights and learning from your background and knowledge.
While I agree with many of your points, consider that ALL aftermarket improvements to engines/suspensions... happened because of DIYers who had the intellect to see the shortcomings in the OEM design and the ability to improve on them, as opposed to starting from scratch. Many eventually became OEM over time
While I agree with many of your points, consider that ALL aftermarket improvements to engines/suspensions... happened because of DIYers who had the intellect to see the shortcomings in the OEM design and the ability to improve on them, as opposed to starting from scratch. Many eventually became OEM over time
Not a fair analogy. One poster here was making recommendations the equivalent of "you should rejet your carbs" when the car in question could have fuel injection. He doesn't know what might need improving since he has never seen or heard one. The poster was GUESSING that he could improve the Porsche because something worked on his Pinto.
For owners of the Atmos-Sphere Class D amps, how do they sound? Are they analytical, warm, etc? What about their detail resolution, imaging, soundstage size, bass, mid range, highs, etc. What do these mono block amps do that you like and what do you dislike (if any)?
In another words, can we please forget the specific technology and talk about their impact on your audio system in terms of sound quality. Any additional comments are requested in terms of sound quality (and not the technology).
If possible, I would interesting in how these class D amps compare to other amps you owned such as class A, class A/B and other class D amps. Thanks.
Should I audition the Atmosphere-Sphere class D amps and why?
In reading your comments. You seemed to have derailed my post. Forums are meant to share experiences with equipment. Give others some real world insight. This post was meant to share experiences with Atma-Sphere Class D Amps. Factual experiences not hypothetical. It seems your comments are meant to troll other members. I’d appreciate we get back to the comments from members that have actual experience with the Amps. And keep the comments to factual information. Not hypotheticals. I’ve been a member for a very long time. And sadly see more trolling happening. It really detracts from the forums and real world information that can be gained. I’ve always kept my comments to equipment that I actually have listening and used within my system.
I would agree with you here. But the difference is real world mods, actual experience rather than keyboard experience/trolling. You can not say you can improve a product…. Unless you actually have done it. Real world experience with the product vs fantasy…
The thousands of audiophiles all over the world that listen to wires, fuses, jacks, etc......are LIVING PROOF that these things are real. What proof (listening tests) do you have that what they all say is wrong? Please share.
Ok. In our zero feedback tube amps we make them with custom wire, custom resistors and the like because we hear a difference (and not surprisingly, the difference is also measurable if you know what to measure). In any amplifier with really high feedback and the Gain Bandwidth product to support that feedback at all audio frequencies its a different matter! This is because the feedback of the amplifier allows it to reject a lot of the influences of the materials themselves. So in our tube amps you can hear an exotic fuse due to the voltage drop; in our class D amps you can’t, even though they are more revealing.
BTW, Nord, Apollon, VTV, etc. sell amps that have discrete input buffer option....so you can roll op amps......all op amp options sound different from each other.....this buffer is on the input of a class D Purifi module......it uses very little gain.....just like Ralph......you can also put adapter boards in these discrete op amp input boards with regular op amps on them.....yes, they sound different again....and not as good as the discrete ones.....go read their sites..
We’re very aware of how different the experience of various class D amplifiers actually is! One difficulty any class D amp has is how to drive the input comparitor which has a low input impedance and must not have any offsets of any kind at its input (and is otherwise operated well within its common mode rejection range).
So the input buffer design has an enormous effect on the performance of the amplifier. This really suggests to me that there are a lot of buffer designs that really aren’t up to snuff- and are using opamps in a way that causes the opamps to have a ’sound’. If they were designed correctly, you wouldn’t be seeing all this noise on the ’net on the ’sound’ of these amps. In short I am saying that it appears that some of the designers that made these buffers don’t know what they are doing and thus get highly variable results. If they used the opamps correctly they would get two things: less effect from the opamps themselves and a more neutral (and thus more musical) amplifier.
Getting back to Ralph’s amps, can they be stacked since they run very cool?
@lulaAs long as they are not being pushed hard, yes. We run them stacked here in the shop all the time.
You answered all of these questions with precision and grace. In addition, we all learned a great deal. As an avid DIYer and modifier I know many pieces of gear can benefit sonically from parts upgrades and such. However, Ralph has articulately stated why some of these mods will not yield positive results in his design. I both believe him and trust his knowledge.
While I agree with many of your points, consider that ALL aftermarket improvements to engines/suspensions...
There are improvements, then there are modifications to suit the end user. Improvements can be proven to actually improve the performance in an objective way- more horsepower, faster lap times, etc. The kinds of modifications the tweak guru always proposes do not improve the performance, most actually degrade it. They do modify the sound, which some may subjectively enjoy, but others may not. Therefore, we can't call them improvements, and since there is no way to objectively prove they improve performance, they are simple modifications that some may like and others may not. Think of racing stripes on your car, or mag wheels, not turbochargers or ground effects.
My goal is to inform people so they can improve their stereo or their lives....that is what I do. The mods I suggested are completely universal. If you did this to a $400 Topping or a $120,000 Gryphon amp the results would be the same....except you would hear more difference with the more transparent piece of gear. When Mytek FINALLY releases their ($20,000) 500 watt a channel mono block GaN amps (now supposedly shipping this month) and a thread is posted here on them and a pic is shown that shows bolts and plates on their tranny then ......I would IMMEDIATELY suggest those with the amps remove that hardware. THESE MODS ARE UNIVERSAL........and the ONLY WAY you would know this is to have tried these things over and over again and had feedback from people who did these things. I have had the information about the steel plates, etc. on my website for OVER 15 YEARS! Every person who has tried it (that I know of) has found the sound improved....(on their amps that I have NEVER seen or touched).
Gryphon amps, Audio Research amps, etc. etc. have fuses that can be upgraded (and thousands of people have upgraded their fuses)......better fuses sound better in ALL equipment. Better jacks sound better in ALL equipment.....better op amps sound better in All equipment.....better wire, better footers.....on and on into infinity...this is just how it is. The game is very complex.....and most manufacturers are not super tweaky explorers.....they have an opinion as to what they think is right and implement to their predilections. This is how the ego works....it defines and defends....D’Agostino makes these monster Relentless amps and they made custom output connectors for them.....big hulking things....made from pure Brass.....Brass? A high mass brass connector? Sorry, this is horrible....How about copper, how about OFC copper, how about cryoing, how about PCOCC copper? No, let’s make them from distorted sounding brass. Have you ever listened to brass speaker cables? You would not want to. .If they used a low mass copper nextgen from WBT they would have much better sound. I actually sent an email to D’Agostino and even showed them by binding post bypass system. Are they going to change what they do because I told them that.............NAH........define and defend. Limitations are what the ego lives for. The soul lives to expand. It wants to know more and feel more and be of more service to more people.
Some manufacturers, over the years have implemented my ideas and copied my products.....I invented the shunt attenuator back in 1989 and it was copied by several manufactures......etc. We ALL make a difference.
If you want to believe these mods are only for Pintos and not Corvettes....well, that is your belief......but it is not based on facts.....only those that try something...know what something does sonically. Any one of you who owns these amps or ANY amp or any DAC, preamp, etc. that has a steel cover and bolt that can be removed can try this mod and see for yourself if it really works or not. Any of you who has a product that uses fuses...can try an audiophile fuse......Changing op amps, jacks, eliminating jacks and the like need to be done by someone who knows what they are doing about this stuff or is a DIY person. But ANYONE can change a fuse or eliminate some steel hardware....or use better footers or add damped weight on top....or lift their cables off the floor. Lots of things the "normal" audiophile can do to improve the sound. Since most things that improve the sound cannot be measured.......then the person who does the change is the final decider of whether its an improvement or not. When you have almost everyone agreeing on a change having a benifit.....to me that is objective truth.....based on listening. This is what we have to go by.....not measurements. When we finally come up with a machine that measures the sound differences in wires, jacks, op amps, resistors, inductors, etc, into infinity....that will be nice....Until then....we have our ears.....Please, trust what you hear......trust what you feel.....love one another. Have fun....
When we finally come up with a machine that measures the sound differences in wires, jacks, op amps, resistors, inductors, etc, into infinity....that will be nice
Wires, jacks, etc. don’t emit sound. There are no sound differences in wires, jacks, op amps, etc., only differences in electrical characteristics/parameters. We do have machines that can measure them. What we can’t account for is human subjective preferences. Whether or not a change is an improvement or not isn’t in the equipment, it’s in the perceptions of the listener. "Better" or "worse" when it is applied to sound is subjective. Get over it.
Your goal is to sell people on your mods so you can earn a profit. You tell people your mods make the equipment sound better. You preach how they are universal, blah blah blah, but it's just your opinion. You pray on the insecurity of others and play your siren song...All for money. How loving.
The trick here is understanding that the measurements, if the correct ones are actually made, affect what you hear in a very direct way. There used to be a disconnect in this regard because we simply didn't have the technology to show things like the distortion spectra with any detail. But that's been around for a while and if you understand how the ear/brain system perceives sound you can predict what an amp will sound like by looking at the measurements. Most audiophiles are old enough in this market to remember when that wasn't true. But you're not going to get anywhere if you live in the past 😉
I understand that measurements can affect sound.....However, it is just one tool and a very flawed one. You cannot measure resistors, inductors, wire, solder, op amps, connecotrs, damping, shielding, directionality of fuses, fuses, circuit board material, resonances, etc. in any meaningful way......You have to listen.
if you are using a big inductive resistor and then went to a small non inductive resistor....you might measure something. However, all nichrome surface mount one sixteenth watt reistor brands ALL sound different from each other. They are all made from practically the same material....are the same size, etc.....Why wuold this be? Who cares?!.....I A/Bed four different brands and one brand was clearly more transparent then the others......still using this resistor today.....but I parallel them for better sound and use a larger version as that sounds better too........so many things affect the sound that cannot be measured......this is HOW it is.
My goal is to inform people so they can improve their stereo or their lives....that is what I do. The mods I suggested are completely universal. If you did this to a $400 Topping or a $120,000 Gryphon amp the results would be the same....except you would hear more difference with the more transparent piece of gear.
OK, quick logic check here; If "everything has a sound" (nonsense IMO, but...) then the "mods" you suggest will *alter* (key word here, not Improve) the sound of any of these amps. Again, doubtful IMO, but let's say you're correct. I know nothing about Atma-Sphere or his products, but from reading what he's written here, he clearly designs his amplifiers to *sound* right/good/pick an adjective to him, and hopefully, by extension to his customers. Nelson Pass is famous for designing amps with specific, and different, sound characteristics, i.e. not "flat" or "straight wire with gain". Again, he designs his amplifiers to *sound* as he intends them to, as does Atma-Sphere. So your "mods", to the extent they make any difference, only improve the sound *relative to your opinion* - nothing remotely universal about it - because every mod you do moves the sound away from the intent of the designer. You are setting yourself up as the universal arbiter of differences in *preference*, while also impugning the competence of every product designer out there. Good luck getting anyone to buy into that.
And for anyone dropping $120K on an amplifier that they don't think sounds right, or has a sonic signature that needs "fixed", well, I'd say meds are more in order than tweaks.
The trick here is understanding that the measurements, if the correct ones are actually made, affect what you hear in a very direct way.
Measurements are what they are-data-they don’t affect what anyone "hears" as they are read, not listened to, unless you are referring to biases induced from the reading of measurements. Testing has indicated correlations between certain distortion spectra and "averaged" or group perceptions but there has been no perfect correlation established between measurements and human response on an individual basis because at the end of the day, you just can’t account for taste.
So your "mods", to the extent they make any difference, only improve the sound *relative to your opinion* - nothing remotely universal about it - because every mod you do moves the sound away from the intent of the designer. You are setting yourself up as the universal arbiter of differences in *preference*, while also impugning the competence of every product designer out there. Good luck getting anyone to buy into that.
Tomorrow morning I am going have some fun. Am going to bring these amps and put them into some high end systems at a local Audio Shop in a Minneapolis suburb. Like to hear them drive some really hard loads. And see how they do against some amps 5 times plus the cost. And I want to hear them on big Magnepan and Wilson’s. Just curious… Should be pretty interesting. Afternoon will have a shootout against Pass Labs XA60.8 amps which I really love. They are 2nd to my MA-1’s in my system. Should be fun to hear if the Atma-Sphere Class D can best them.
Here is what is true with high end audio.....practically no one knows very much.....because it is infinite. Not so with hot rodding. All quarter mile top fuelers look the same and perform the same....because the game is so very simple.....it is horsepower, weight, drag, traction and gearing......and the driver.....that is all that there is........and you can measure it by the clock. In high end audio every single thing makes a sonic difference (my experience with over 45 years of listening tests) and there is soooooooooooooooo much to know that all manufacturers have just a tiny piece of the pie of info. It takes months to just figure out the best wire to use.....this is why every single product at every single price point sounds different. THERE IS NO REFERENCE in high end audio.......no clock to test us.....no race course.....it is every manufacturer on his own....every customer on his own......so there is no common knowledge.....However, as things get tested more and more and TALKED about more and more then some TRUTH will prevail. For those that have never listened to wires, and jacks and whatever then what I say sounds like a different language and how dare I second guess the designers (for they know everything!). Sorry to break you bubble.....but we are all so ingorant.....including me. The more you know....the more you know nothing. However, I have an expertise in tweaking....just like Nelson Pass has an expertise in circuit design.....we all are learning and growing. The more we talk about our experience (what we have listened to) then the more REAL KNOWLEDGE we will have. So, if you do not know anything about tweaking then you have no idea if what I say works or does not work.....and how universal it is. So, who is going to change the fuses out and remove the steel plates and bolts on the transformers and LISTEN and give us some REAL KNOWLEDGE?.......Are we going to just say what we "think" is true or do we really want to improve our stereo. You cannot improve your stereo by fighting tweakers....or fighting anyone......Please, try something new.....figure out what is really true for YOURSELF......do not believe me or Kuribo or Ralph.....find out what is true for YOU.......You can change....you can embrace something new. I encourage you to explore.....Exploration is fun.....being right is old stuff and not fun. Do you want to have fun? Do you want to make your stereo better? Just do it!
What kind of op-amps did Atmasphere specify and in what position? What are your recommendations for upgraded op-amps? in what position and why? What will the positive effect be?
Please, please tell us because Ralph’s livlihood depnds on it and the survival of Atmasphere as a company rests in the balance.
@ricevsWhy don’t you start your own thread and take all of your posts on this one and move them there. Others are here to learn about the Atmasphere Class D amps as designed by Ralph , how they sound , and how they compare to other amps.
Also, if everyone else stops engaging with the non-relevant posts maybe the thread can get back on track.
Ego fighting is not making your stereo better or making anyone else's stereo better or making people feel better......or be more happy. What makes you happy? When you are happy you radiate happiness.....and you also want others to be happy. Do you want me to be happy? If so, then praise and raise me to heaven. I am doing that for all of you right now. You are all beautiful.....you are the light of lights.....may you feel loved by the universe.....right now.....for you are.... Every single thing and being in all the known and unknown universe is loving you right this moment. You have never been unloved. Rejoice....celebrate this incredible miraculous moment.....for this very moment is all we have. You are worthy.....you are deserving.....you are incredible!
Share your beauty.....share you knowledge (what you have experienced), share your love....share your magnificience..
There is "what I want" on track......and there is the track of the soul......there is plenty of time to know about an amp......but to live right now in your heart.....well that is precious.......and worthy of eternity.
Getting back to the specific Atmasphere amp being discussed. I am not an Audio Engineer so please excuse the possibly foolish question. Why is the power supply not a switch mode? I see a large selection of supposedly well designed, medical grade SMPS, by Traco or Meanwell. Yet, I see class A or class D amps not using these. Why?
Most class D amps use switching supplies.....some don’t. There are advantages to both. Switching supplies are smaller, cheaper, more effecient and operate at high frequency so there is no 60hz ripple.. But because they switch at higher frequencies they have more high frequency noise that needs to be filtered. As with everything.....it is in the details. If you use the very best parts and execution on both.....which will sound better? Very few know this.....again each manufacturer will usually have their own predilections and go from there. There are many who have changed a switching supply to a linear supply and have gotten better sound. Then there are those who have done the opposite.....and there are those who have tweaked their switching supply so it sounds way, way, way better than stock. As with what I said above.....there is NO common knowledge. Great amps have been made using both. The latest class D from Aavik that Jonathan Scull just raved about uses a modded Pascal module and switching power supplies and all kinds of tweaks. Lots of ways up the mountain of sound.
Why is the power supply not a switch mode? I see a large selection of supposedly well designed, medical grade SMPS, by Traco or Meanwell. Yet, I see class A or class D amps not using these. Why?
Most class d amp makers do use smps. There are a handful that use an old school traditional tranny, bridge, etc. If your amp module design is well done with a high PSRR, it makes little difference, according to experts like Bruno Putzeys, who uses smps exclusively with ncore and purifi. They have many good points but some still believe an amp isn't any good if it doesn't weigh 50 kg.
Wrong, there is a lot of common knowledge. There is no common opinion on what sounds "best" thus a market full of products of different designs, classes, power supplies etc. It's not a lack of knowledge but a wealth of knowledge that allows manufacturers to produce products that appeal to a broad market full of consumers with widely varying tastes.
Real KNOWLEDGE in audio.......is how something sounds......there is no common Knowledge of sound.....because there are so many variables......believe it or not. There is lots of technical knowledge.....but that does not necessarily correlate to sound quality....
Are there clear evidences of the superiority of one GaN amp over other GaN amps?
Concentrating just on GaN amps, the observations made for Atmosphere GaN monos may well be applied to a number of other GaN amps. I honestly can see no proof of superiority except that I read a number of subjective expressions. I readily believe that Atmosphere d amps sound wonderful, and would really like to know more on how much better are they than the other GaN amps. This thread, so far, didn't help me in this. Too many subjective points of view. I think it is not timely comparisons with tube stuff, SS can hardly give you the same lightness, 3 dimensionality and body. These are just two different concepts, you may like one more or the other. I like tube gear more but also enjoy in some degree class d, which i trust gives the best in SS.
@pstores, did you really made an ab comparison of Atmosphere class d with the Peachtree or Voyager, or some other GaN amp?
All GaN amps will sound completly different from every other GaN amp and also all Class D amps using mosfets......the GaN transistor may be one thing that improves sound but it is just one of an infinite number things that change the sound.
Here is a list of my candidates for excellent class D amps at lower prices (under $10K)
1. The VTV Purifi Eval amp.....around $1200
2. Orchard mono blocks (GaN amps) $1500
3. VTV Purifi stereo amp using the New Purifi ET704 modules and discrete input stages using the better Sparko labs op amps, Sparko labs discrete regulators and WBT negtgen jacks.....$2100
4. Dual mono stereo version of above. $2260 or mono blocks $2600
5. Orchard Audio Starkrimson Stereo Ultra (GaN based).....starting at $2500 for basic stereo....options for dual mono and extra capacitance....
6. Peachtree GaN 400 and LSA Voyager amps (GaN based)....basically the same amp with the same modules and power supply $3K or less
7. The Atmasphere GaN mono block $5400 the pair
8. AGD mono block Audion GaN based amps.....$7500 the pair.
9. Hopefully soon to be released.... the Mytek Manhattan amp....stereo amp using GaNs.....something like $7K.
These need to be all compared with each other.....Who is volunteering?
Here is a real sleeper....and maybe a super amp?:
Peachtree has just released a The Gan 1 class D amp that has NO FEEDBACK....no op amps......it is pure digital. Takes PCM via coax only and converts it to PWM in software and uses GAN output stage. NO feedback. This will not have a low of impedance as some of the above and also the distortion figures will be worse than above (Kuribo will freak out at this). However, the sound is said to be really great. You need a source that has some kind of digital volume control at 32 bits or more so you won’t mess up the sound. This thing requires no DAC, no preamp....no cables between DAC and Preamp and amp.....This is exactly what the Technics amps do and also the Lyndorf amps do. There is only a few delivered so comparisons to any serious DAC/Preamp/amp combos have not been made.....but I always like a short signal path.....let’s see what this $2000 amp that needs no DAC or Preamp can do.
Peachtree has just released a The Gan 1 class D amp that has NO FEEDBACK....no op amps......it is pure digital. Takes PCM via coax only and converts it to PWM in software and uses GAN output stage. NO feedback.
Well I have had the peachtrees in my system. They are at best mediocre. They don’t compare to the Atma-Sphere. The have a clinical, dry lifeless sonic character. Soundstage and depth isn’t there either. And the don’t have the sort of realism the Atma-Sphere has. The Atma-Sphere is true to instruments. A piano sound as a piano should. As well as Sax, drum beats, brushes and cymbals. I have also had some of the other amps he lists in my system. As to date the Atma-Sphere Class D beats them all. And not by a small margin. And is the only Class D I have like within my system. And I really like them. Recivs is just trolling here and trying to derail the thread. And I doubt he has heard any of the Amps he lists. And I know he’s never heard the Atma-Sphere. So not sure how one can review an amp that they’ve never heard before.
I do not doubt for a moment your immense satisfaction with the Atma-Sphere amplifiers. Admittedly I have no idea what Ric has or hasn’t actually heard. I’m just intrigued by this very latest no feedback class D amplifier without the ubiquitous Op-amps usage. Did you hear this specific zero feedback design?
Real KNOWLEDGE in audio.......is how something sounds
How something "sounds" is subjective, an opinion, not a fact, and thus not "real knowledge", which is something that has meaning beyond one's self.
You can't seem to get beyond the simple truth that your experienced subjective reality and beliefs are nothing but opinions and are no more valid than anyone else's. The guru complex.
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