Are these Speakers the BEST on Planet Earth ?...

@atmasphere -   Yep, E2’s low note on my guitars.     Standard Bass guitar goes an octave lower.    Conflation (touche')!

"Acoustics delivers 55% of S.Q."

I don't know where that figure came from or whether it's accurate, but I do know the geometry of the listening room is absolutely critical from at least 500Hz on down.  To that end the Kii speakers are pretty special.  The ability to process not only EQ but phase information in order to control dispersion at low frequencies allows them to accommodate the quirks of different listening rooms better than almost any other speaker.  Dutch&Dutch use similar technology to do the same thing, but I'm not aware of many others who are taking advantage of new DSP technology to alter they way sounds emanate from an enclosure *after* that sound has left the box.  If the Kii Three are the "best in the world" it's because they are employing brand new technology.  The same technology will undoubtedly be improved upon by other manufacturers in the near future.  I wouldn't spend that much money on something that will invariably be dated by the time the credit card bill is paid down.   I do enjoy seeing people write about how ugly they are, as though visual aesthetics are somehow universal or matter to the performance of a speaker.  Give me spartan, utilitarian gear that is designed to perform.  Money and effort spent on making audio gear pretty is money spent to appeal to senses other than hearing.  Pretty speakers appeal to the optophile.  There's nothing wrong with wanting something pretty, but visual aesthetics don't play a role in how something actually sounds. 

I have actually heard them both with and without the BXT. They are better with but the price goes up a LOT.

I don't think they are the best on Earth but they are very, very good. I remember thinking that I might be able to save up for them without the BXT. You get almost a whole system. Just connect a streamer and you are good to go. It is like a combo of a speaker and an integrated with a built in dac. I will probably never buy them but hope equally good models will appear for a lower price.

Regarding D&D 8 they don't have anything like the BXT bass module. They might be a bit warmer.

The best I've heard was some large Focal Utopias and Magico M6.

Uh @rodman99999 I play bass, started on string bass in 6th grade... low E is more like 41Hz. But most bass guitar cabs are set up to play 82Hz as the bass has a strong 2nd harmonic.


Even though I might use a class D to power them, I prefer a speaker to which I can connect my own amp. Maybe this is because I make amps and prefer what I perceive as greater neutrality in them. So I don't think this is the best speaker by any means, although it appears to have a lot of competent engineering going into it.

@jmforge- The lowest Bass Guitar note is E2 (82.4 Hz).       There were/are a variety of speaker cabinets, designed to accompany the SVT amp.      Some for practice and some for moving real air, at one (individual) instrument’s primary frequencies.      Is this the one, to which you’re referring? https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SVT810E--ampeg-svt-810e-8x10-inch-800-watt-extension-cabinet

So we seek absolute perfection in reproducing decidedly imperfect sources like acoustic instruments, vintage guitars and amps and even the human voice? ;-) As for 8 inch speakers not being able to reproduce base, I know that these did not go down below 20 Hz, but if you ever looked at the speaker complement in the rather large cabinet that comes with what was considered the ultimate bass guitar amplifier for years, the Ampeg SVT?

It’s funny, in the old days I would frequent high-end audio salons and stores where stereos were sold, and listen to speakers--sometimes SOTA ones--and I’d remember the ones that impressed me. So at any given time I’d have a mental list of what I considered the "best" speakers to be. But in all cases they would be speakers I had experienced for myself, with my own ears, in, like, you know, reality.

No more. Nowadays there aren’t any stores near me that sell and demo speakers, and I no longer frequent audio dealers, and I no longer hear speakers firsthand...so I really have no idea of what might be "the best" speaker, in my opinion.

I miss those days. I’d love to have an opinion about what the best might be. But nowadays all I have is a much less useful and interesting list in my head...namely, a list of speakers I’ve read about and that sound like they might be worth checking out. But in all those cases I’ve never actually checked them out, because I can’t.

I bought my current speakers having never heard them first.

I think in the short term there is a huge subjective component in our appreciation for audio gear. In my experience, the speakers which give lasting satisfaction are those which offer lowest distortion, flattest, most extended response, within ones means. My frustration with this site is that most people seem to discount the degree to which the designers experience and research matter. This is far more apparent in DACs, where some hobbyist can sell his creation at prices approaching those of the masters.

Haven't heard them so obviously have no opinion.

But having used the shareware MathAudtioRoomEQ plugin I can say that digital room correction is possibly the single biggest breakthrough in sound quality since the LP, unless you're able to build a dedicated listening room.

And the concern with directivity is also very promising.  I sure WANT to hear these....

I’ll take the Rockport Hyperion speakers 500 lbs each, you dudes and dudettes can fight over the rest. 

Nothing is the best.  Higher cost does not make it better.  Is a $70,000,000 Ferrari GTO a better car than a 2020 Corvette?  BTW, I am a real Ferrari fan, but they are far from perfect.  Go spend a fortune to impress your friends, but don't be surprised if they do things other than praise your almighty system, and mostly do things with anyone but you.  Put your speaker wires on  little trestles to avoid whatever gremlins live under your floors, without even considering that the closeness of the two wires to each other is much more severe in affecting whatever you are afraid of.  We do not live in a best-or-not-the-best dichotomous world.   You are free to nerd out as much as you wish, but you could have been learning about interesting things like astrophysics, philosophy, and ... Whoops, Gotta go get a life.

@twoleftears wrote: " I’d take these... over the Kii: https://dutchdutch.com/8c/ "

The Dutch & Dutch 8c uses a proper waveguide, which looks to me like it’s based on Earl Geddes’ Oblate Spheroid math, but evolved to meet the specific requirements of a dome tweeter and on-axis listening. (The original Oblate Spheroid measures and sounds best from a little bit off-axis, so it’s not an ideal studio monitor solution.)

The Kii 3 uses a different technology, one which is better than most, and which may do some things better than the Dutch & Dutch. For instance its high frequency dispersion is probably wider, which may be desirable.

Based on experience with the horn technology Kii uses, and with the horn technology that I believe the Dutch & Dutch has evolved from, I agree with twoleftears. But I think the Kii is still an absolutely brilliant design.

Duke

Plus one for scale.        When I hear complaints about systems being unable to deliver the dynamics and size of a live orchestra, I guess they’ve never heard any of the IRS Series (even the Beta), with (say) a pair of VTL 300s.               Perhaps some big Wilsons, or- Avantgarde Trios, with some stacked Basshorns.      In the right room, of course.                                 Yeah: scale!

8"x48"x16"   and 112 pounds  

At least to me the images I have seen can be misinterpreted as a much larger speaker. Another strike against it being best in world- it's smallish. You don't even begin to be in "best in world" class unless you can reach  about 5.5-6 foot (2M), imo. Scale is so much more important than people want to believe. 

I'm sure it sounds wonderful, stunning, etc. But, I have heard many wonderful, stunning speakers that aren't best in world category. Then again, it's not priced as though it has pretense to be best in world, which is strongly in its favor. It may be priced appropriately to performance. I would guess it to be a lovely listen.  :)

Give me a pair of "The Apogee" or the mighty Infinity IRS V, that's what I consider to be in the worlds greatest speaker collection.

@teo_audio:  Save your keystrokes!      There are many posers on this site, that think they know something about Science.        All obsessively attempting to categorically prove their side of an argument, with their favorite THEORY.      Classic Dunning-Kruger cases.       Thus far, what Science has taught anyone that’s been paying attention is; there’s another side to this Mobius Strip of a universe we haven’t found, yet.                                                     Occasionally; I feel guilty for picking on them.

 Maybe they are..
 
https://www.kiiaudio.com/media/GENERAL/docs/reviews/kii3hfn818lowrez.pdf  

lol @teoaudio’s post above me. You’re essentially making an argument against science. I take it you dropped out of school. I see this time and time again with failed engineers. Couldn’t tough it out with a real job and instead went the route of high end cables.

In the video where an astrophysicist tries to explain gravity at 5 levels of education and mind.., which was lost in the original post, somehow..it goes like this:
Gravity explained in 5 levels of increasing complexity and depth

1: Dogma and facts
2: Dogma and facts
3: Dogma and facts
4: Dogma and facts

and level 5, spoken between a physicist and an astrophysicist:

We don’t really understand anything, this could be anything, there is no reality, there are no facts and all of this is up in the air, and may well be, forever. We really don’t know.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
so, when I hear people spout about facts, attack with ’facts’ (the word fact is an oxymoron) when someone else is speculating about things science is not clear on, then the smoke comes out of my ears.

as, when you speculate (which is emphatically NOT engineering), one reverts the facts and the dogma to what they really are, which is suppositional place holding logic based on analysis and observation. As in the end, it’s all we’ve got, if one is actually asking questions and attempting to answer them. Like the astrophysicist and the physicist both illustrate very very clearly.

I see you still play the game of attacking over a wrong that never happened and was entirely your imagination...
Please don't conflate science with engineering, they are not the same. They are related at at times and can intertwine to some degree but there is a very important difference between the two. You build with engineering, you speculate with science. Engineering has facts, physics and science has theories. And never will the two meet. People conflate the two as they don't understand the subtle but critical differences.

Ultimate Spinach? Far out man. Had to look them up, the "Bosstown Sound"? Were those your formative years?


Kii Audio put on an interesting digital source demonstration at an audio show last year (no subwoofer yet). The advancements and and results that digital signal processing can provide is interesting. In that hotel room some remarked positively about the amount of bass they produced.

My next listen was in the Zesto / Joseph Audio room and was immediately reminded of digititus.

Because eight 7" drivers will not begin to produce the kind of LF that superior SOTA speakers can produce. I'm not only meaning frequency extension, but also quality, texture of the bass. These fall short of the goal on that parameter alone. Whether they are all that as regards mid/treble would have to be heard.

No SOTA experience but I sold a 16lbs Phil Jones C2 2x5" that made my Upright sound great. I'm now using a back packable Upshot with a 10" Bag End Coaxial at just over 12lbs. My Velodyne DD-12 Plus killed the previous DD-18. Just sayin'.
  

My wife would skin me alive if I brought home something this ugly.

World Series baseball is limited to this world (Earth) and thus apt. Also, an "ultimate" speaker seems ridiculous, although Ultimate Spinach was classic late 60s Boston.

I bought those speakers in 1994 for $300. They do not have much bass, etc. but they are really just right. To me.

They received very good reviews....I read a lot about Mission  before buying mine used...

I think limiting this sort of thing to planet earth is unfair to other planets.

@wolf_garcia
Well it never stopped the World Series Baseball...
Yeah I'm taking the Mickey :-)

I bought those speakers in 1994 for $300. They do not have much bass, etc. but they are really just right. To me.

I dont judge the Mission speakers" per se".... I only think about the changes induced by room modification, and other modifications (mechanical and electrical) and their final impact on the sound quality...This is my point....Not the quality of a speaker in "abstracto" based on his good design and price....

If we takes any speakers and listen to it in a bad room and after that in an optimally controlled one, the difference is always most of the times staggering....My Mission dont sound the same at all in my controlled room now compared to the same room without any embeddings acoustical tweaks and without any of the electrical controls tweaks, like 3 years ago when I bought them...

Congratulations for your Mission Speakers....Mission produce some speakers very good for their pricing at times....It seems that we are at least 2 thinking the same.... :)


My Tannoy dual gold were  perhaps better tough but it was impossible to put them on my desk.... :)

"If my Mission Cyrus 781 can changes TOTALLY from ordinary to extraordinary..."

I am embarassed to say, but my Mission 761i are to me still probably the best speakers. They always sound right. No matter what I plugged them to and no matter what room they were in.

If my Mission Cyrus 781 can changes TOTALLY from ordinary to extraordinary when they are mechanically and electrically and most importantly acoustically rightfully embedded; then any speakers will sound very differently, rightly embedded or not....


Then how can we know if one among hundreds possible contenders is the better?

Price can only be a factor in the matter not the last word....Price are non linearly related to the sophistication of the design and his quality....We cannot compared 1000 bucks speakers most of the times to 100,000 dollars one and most of the times even not to 20,000 one... 


It is certainly not possible to affirm anything without comparing them in the same rightful embeddings conditions and this is very difficult to makes that happen for more than a few speakers at the same times for the same ears....


Then this speculation is more about marketing products and prices then S.Q in itself....


Acoustics delivers 55% of S.Q., and controls of the electrical grid of the house 25 or 30 % and mechanical controlling of resonance problems contributes in my experience around 20 or 15%, these % are valid in the hypothesis that all source are good and relatively equals for any audio systems experiments and that the speakers compared are on the same rungs levels in price/ design quality....These % are only my own experience for sure but meet many others experience also ….


Speakers dont exist in a void or in an anechoic chamber.... They exist in a very particular house and the Room +speakers + ears is the most important factor in audio and works like a single synchronizing apparatus....

Speakers are completely subjective. If it sounds real to you it is a good speaker regardless of specs and features.

When everyone’s ear are literally different and literally unique in that physicality, and when everyone learns through that unique physicality in a unique individual path, and this unique pairing becomes their interpretation of the physical reality of hearing....then...

...no, there is no such thing as an ultimate piece of audio equipment nor an ultimate speaker.

That we each see an orange uniquely and the only commonality is that we share a language that is transferable, as a descriptor of the given thing. Where we each see ’orange’, but the total sum interpretation of that commonality of the ’orange’ word, is unique and individual. Seven billion separate individual unique interpretations that suffer commonality, but not exactness.

You exist solely as a subjective thing, in a subjective reality, in it’s entirely, inescapably so.

Where objectivity is a shared concept but has zero reality, outside of it’s entirely subjective vehicle/carrier.

So, we can have ’perfect sound’, but there is no one there to listen to it, and it is inescapably subjective. Objectivity is an impossibility in a human world, in a reality that cannot be proven in any way, but that of supposition. Ergo, ergo, ergo...

Illogical or uneducated minds tend to think otherwise. That somehow objectivity is a ’thing’. It is not. Objectivity is grade school stuff, rote methodology, dogmatic stuff for repetitious taskmastering..

Where if you scratch a high level scientist and or physicist in this direction, they will tell you the same. We communicate about our so called objectivity, but objectivity is merely a thought object, a tool... for the purposes of analysis.

Your reality, as you know it, is inescapably virtual. You have no other purchase or grip on it, that that. Anything else is a figment of your non-existent imagination. Logic, in the final levels, demands and illustrates this.

Ie, just a simple description of gravity in 5 levels, and the peak level, the 5th one, goes inescapably into metaphysics, and is a talk a between two physicists, who reveal that ultimately ...we can’t prove anything, anything at all.

So, to come back ’round again... No. No best speaker.

Best speaker for me. Best speaker for you. Whatever that given speaker individually might be. But it can’t really go any further than that subjective act.

The human ear being as stated at the start of this post. With a few bits of logic strung together, it can be seen why the objective linear mind goes batty when it encounters high end audio, as high end audio really brings the subjectivity of it all home to roost, due to the uniqueness of individual human hearing. 

And the objective mind freaks out, and attacks in all directions...like an animal being held high in the air by one foot, in a violent, turbulent and unbounded reality... completely undone --  out of place and outside of peace of mind.

I'd take these any day over the Kii: https://dutchdutch.com/8c/

Sadly I will probably never hear them, but I’ve heardso many others that I thought were amazing, I’m going to have to say no.

JD

Many people also think "flat response" is best because the term sounds good. Fact is, any significant exposure to real, unamplified live music will tell you there is no correlation between "flat response" and "real."

mtdining

The vast majority of people agree that low distortion, flat and extended frequency response is best.

That's silly. I don't think the vast majority of people even know what "frequency response" is.

Great speaker system but for midfield listening I would say the DD8C has an advantage. Measures flat to 17hz in my room on their own. In any case this is the future. Like it or not. 

subjectivist?
lack of experience?
i also look bad in shorts
but most of us do
I don't let that bother me

Apparently, there is an inverse relationship between being aggressively ugly, and sonic performance?

NO, but talk to the people at Magnepan.  They actually make speakers that sound like whatever is driving them, good or bad.

Amazing!

Are these Speakers the BEST on Planet Earth ?...

No, mine are..........

The vast majority of people agree that low distortion, flat and extended frequency response is best. No one competes with Wilson for low distortion. The subjectivist among you simply show lack of experience with properly designed systems.

Somebody has never heard big Wilson’s. The correct answer is the WAMM.

By Grapthar's hammer, those are ugly!

Hi,
they may or may not but surely they do not look sexy.

More than any other audio component, there is no objective 'best' in speakers.  Most of the top names agree they are not trying to make the best speaker, only what sounds right to them.  Which of course translates into 'what they like'.

Can I get those with Amazon Prime? Gotta have that free shipping.

Another advertisement. Textron are
allowed to do it. Plenty of others have been allowed to do it. Eh. So what?

I think limiting this sort of thing to planet earth is unfair to other planets.