Are cables really worth their high price because of their geometry?

Let your ears be your guides. Of course, the only problem with that is that you can't buy 20 cables and switch them out to find the ones you like. 

Good advice on letting ears be the guide, but how about those amongst us who don’t trust their ears whatsoever, and look for “measurements “ to make any decisions? 🤪

And yes, you can buy and try 20 cables. Not at once, but over time. It’s fun. Experimenting that is. There is no rush

No. 

The thing that gets me is if you have 50,000 for a pair of speakers then I guess you think it's well worth the price for these exotic speaker cables and other cables.But for a guy to have 2,000 speakers and then to spent 500 for cables that's nuts.Everyone I know say spend more on your cables but these are the guys with 50,000 speakers or Systems.....

İn small signal cables, maybe, like good shielding on a phono cable but otherwise no. 

Being a thread about "cable geometry" and since I believe cable design is far more complicated than many believe, I thought I would pass on my own experiences, i.e. for those of you that might be interested...

I have been researching cables for about the last 15 years (on and off) and within the last 6 years I have pursued cable geometry with much more focus and have found good cable design is very complex and dependent on many factors - not just resistance

My first deviation from the standard ’twisted pair" (with & without shielding) was Stager Silver Solids - solid silver wire with a tightly twisted geometry. These provided much more detail and openess than the more conventional cables I had used to date.

Then I took a leaf out of Kimber’s geometry book and tried braiding cables - braiding surpassed the everything to date and I was able to extend that geometry to Power cables, which again proved t be very beneficial.

It was at this point I got to know a person with over 30 years in the cable and connector business. He made me aware of how using different sized wires and different numbers of strands of solid wire per conductor could improve things even more.

Unfortunately using different sized conductors and different number of conductors did not work too well with the braided design.

SO I then decided to look at the possibility of eliminating crosstalk (if there was any) between the conductors in a cable.

Audiophiles often position the various cables in their systems such that if two cables have to cross, they do so at 90 degrees to minimize crosstalk.

So I looked again at the Stager Silver Solids geometry and asked myself, what if one of those conductors were to run straight through the center of the tightly twisted conductor. Would this provide enough of angle.

My first prototypes were made from CAT5 wire and consisted of a straight positive lead with a coiled neutral wire.

Why not the other way around? - mainly because the neutral might just be able to provide some sort of "screening" to the signal lead

This approach proved to be extremely beneficial compared to the braided approach in terms of clarity, imaging and bass performance and detail.

So then I decided to turn my attention to the metallurgy used in the wires for my interconnects. For me, Silver became the obvious choice for the signal wire because of it’s superior conductivity. But since the coil of the neutral was 3 times the length, it made it a little expensive so I selected a silver plated copper wire.

Thinking back to my experience with different numbers of conductors and different wire gauges I experimented a little with the size and number of conductors used for the neutral.

Since the early designs there have been many many permutations of wire types and gauges, and most combinations have proven to be advantageous. Several people that have adopted this geometry approach have also assisted with testing wire types and provided valuable feedback of their observations.

The last area I have been recently testing is the type of insulation on the wires. One contact in Austria made me aware of the Dielectric Constant of insulation. I have found that using wires with the lowest possible level of Dielectric constant provides the very best sound.
e.g.
- Air is around 1.1
- Cotton is around 3.0
- AirLok insulation (see VH Audio) is around 1.45
- Teflon is around 2.2
- foamed insulation vary between 1.6-2.0

As I said, this journey has taken many years and in that time I have been fortunate in that many others that have adopted what I refer to as the "Helix Geometry" have provided some excellent feedback on wire types and insulation.

Each cable variant takes some 300+ hours of burn-in and subsequent auditions. so the process has not been quick.

My system is modest compared to some of those now using the Helix Cables, and based on their observations they appear to work extremely well on a variety of systems, both tube and solid state.

SO - If you believe Cables make a difference, then you might like to see the latest variant of cables I have made on this site.
http://image99.net/blog/

ALTERNATIVELY: For those of you that believe all that matter is resistance and would like to point out my approach and geometry is flawed
- I will point out that I will not respond to your comments, simply because I have heard ALL the arguments as to why they will not work before.

But everyone is entitled to an opinion - so post away - like minded individuals will appreciate it greatly

For those sitting on the fence - trust your ears - they are the best "tool" a person has - and try some of the more unorthodox geometries from companies like In-Akustik, Nordost, KLE Innovations and Kimber.

Regards - Steve

Nobody can show any particular geometry is any better overall than another.   It's all hearsay.   So the answer is people may think certain ones are worth it but there is nothing to back it up so spending a fortune on wires is a pot shot at best.

@williewonka

Hi, I'm not certain you ever heard of, or are familiar with, a certain HPC named interconnect type cable that was produced/marketed by Madrigal (Levinson) way back in the early mid 80s?
H standing for helical, P for planar, C for copper. Yet, HOW is it actually constructed? 

Well, it has an inner centre/core of a very thick like fish-line string about 1/16 inch ø of (I'm guessing) teflon.
Around this is wound tightly, helical, a very thin foil like, some ⅛ inch wide copper foil. Followed by a dual (or tripple? layer of helical wound telfon tape.
Now in the opposite direction, wound helical is the negative conductor, followed by the second insulation layer of teflon wound tape. This is followed by the screen, of a fine mesh 'sock' and then all covered by some type of light grey shrink sleeve. 

All this is some VERY unassuming looking cable, but the efford of criss cross helical winding of every delicate (planar conductor) foil and teflon insulation material needs to be seen to be believed. 
Then appreciate the skill, by use of silver solder connected XLR plugs to these delimate foils, is quite something in deed. 

So how about the sound presentation? 
Well, it sure beats every thing IC I ever had in my system, including my last, Transparent Music Link Ultra XLR, this by a really most *noteable* degree in trebble, bass, and overall clarity. 

This is the most elaborate construction I've ever seen - and it truly works.
 
Don't ask me about the original cost. It must have been rather high, and looking almost puny and very unattractive, pencil thick only - not a marketable smash hit for sure.

I guess that's why they didn't make it for more than a couple of years - if even that long. 

But - the best IC I *ever* had in my system. 
So... CONSTRUCTION MATTERS - BIG TIME, in my learning. 

Imagine all these controversies about cable geometry....

Those who experiment with it.... And others who do not....

My ears/brain tell me that except for experimenting with it, it is not possible to develop a sound opinion...

It is like with my last  homemade "creation" the " The twin Fans combing sound" all will laught without even knowing anything, i will smile with my low cost reverse engineering tweak, not of a cable, but a room enhancer.....

« Those who speak sometimes know, those who stay silent always learn in all case » - Groucho Marx

Mr.  speedbump6
I understand about speaker cables more than any other.
It was always left to charlatans who has no idea what cables the customers need. 
The BS around it, went from weird to bizarre.  
It was a trend, waves of BS and now we are at geometry.
It's a temporary BS till the next one.
The only thing matters with a speaker cable, is it's relative resistance value to the Amp's Ro or DF.
The other parameter that goes in, is the cable length.
Put that in a calculation, would generate results of some thicker cables that you would find on the market.
Most cable on the market are of #12 or #14 awg, as it is easy to work with and they fit into most banana plugs and spades.
What about some thicker cable, required for Amp's with DF of 400 and above, at a 10' length? They should be of #0 awg or more. 
No geometry, no cryo, no directionality, no purity, no silver over cooper, no, no, no...even the bi wire is a BS. Run a simple simulation on Spice and you will realize that a single wire, with the same resistance of the two (bi wire) is better.
But who will give up a double sale over a single?

@b4icu

Wow, taking about a strong opinion, I say!

Colour me daft, but I still possess 3 kinds of speaker cables, in my system since a VERY long time, and always coming back to it! A Straight Wire WaveGuide, using teflon insulated solid copper wires 4 each for plus and minus, wound around a teflon string type centre core ~2.5mm ø , both ends using good quality (Furutech) cable shoes.

Nothing soldered, which earlier on was mildly degrading performance, since very hard to get good solder joints even with a high wattage solder iron.
Something I really only learned after de-soldering! 😒

Second, a very noticeably DIFFERENT sounding set, also 5 foot long, pure silver strand litz (many strands) clear ABS coated cable.
Rather bright sounding, ok tight bass but ~puny~ midrange, to put it quite simply.

Third, thicker copper strand ± same gauge as the silver cable, again using waxy ABS type insulation but seperate round strands, red and black pigmented ABS, running next to each other straight, but all embedded in cotton fibres! (damping?) and finally coated in a white PVC outer layer.
Not as bright as the silver litz, but not as coherent sounding as the StraightWire, which sounds overall more natural by comparison.

I had also listened/tested in my system a *very* elaborate construction Kimber copper SC, about 1½ inch thick! with lots a of ’fancy’ inner foam damping etc. and found no real difference to the StraightWire. At all.

So, in my learing, speaker wires, different makes and constructions, *can* absolutely sound noticeably different - yet some, even of mightily different design/construction .. don’t necessarily do so. 
Ergo... it ALL depends. Why? 🤔
That’s another story. 😊

PS: I do not underestimate the influence of the speaker’s x-over, design and construction as all has an influence too, and of course NEVER MIND your power amp’s damping factor! 🙃

@justmetoo - Thanks for that info - I've not heard of that cable, but from your description it sounds very similar in some respects to my Helix Cables.

Another very similar cable I am aware of is the Interconnect from Anti-Cable
http://anticables.com/interconnects/analog-rca-interconnects

But I have no experience with what they sound like. Reports on this forum seem to be very favorable though.

The problem with cables like these is the time to fabricate them and they become difficult to make when you get up to 2-3 meters long, making them more expensive to the customer

Regards - Steve

@williewonka

As to 'anti-cables' I had some tested some time ago, that were offered to me free of charge for a trial periode, 1-2 weeks. 
Seeing them, I right away had a suspicion they were made up by some not so very professional folks - do they give franchises to some 'operators' ?!? 🤔 

In any case, they were made up (rather crudely) of two different thicknesses of lacquered transformer wire and ever so terribly stiff! with very cheap banana type connectors, and badly fitted to boot. 

The sound... not very coherent and quite bright - in my system, and apparently a *very* long time of burn-in required. 

This whole 'episode' reminded me more of a scam than anything else. 👎

But - I can imagine, also given the most affordable price, some folk will find them A1 OK, now who am I to argue about it ? 🤔😏

Mr. justmetoo
At the bottom line, all that matters is the resistance of your speaker cable vs. the Amp's DF (Ro).
All the descriptions of yours about the three cables, are good for Fri. eve, to tell around the coffee table, or to put asleep a kid.
None has any contribution to the facts of electricity and electronics.
As the speaker cable is an extension of the Amp's Ro, the speaker load is of no significance,  and so are all the BS that the cable makers and sales guys spread (as a pandemic).
When you get the right cable (calculated) the sound is so much better.
After that, no matter what you put there, it wont match or improve.

Mr. Justmetoo, why do insist on calling anticables a scam?
He isn’t packaging his cables to cover up anything. If you see his cables the geometry isn’t complex and he doesn’t claim they’re.
What he does do is talk about the actual conductor and how it’s drawn and how they have improved this technique to make a better sounding cable. I’ve been to anticable’s business and have seen how they produce their cables and believe me it isn’t some do at home company.

Twisted cables tend to have higher capacitance but lower inductance on average.  It's a trade off so there is no perfect solution.  

Twisted wire will help guard against interference. I've never tried these but they look pretty well made and offer to measure the LCR for you at a reasonable price.

https://sites.google.com/view/pine-tree-audio/speaker/speaker-cables/visceral

Cable snake oil does not only belong to the high-end, but also at the low end as well.  Belden is an example of low end snake oil.  

The claims of these cable manufacturers with regards to their proprietary geometries, materials, processes' effects on sound quality (ie holography) would be a lot more useful and credible if they told you what level or type of audio system was required to fully express them. Selling "holographic" cables for an unknown or mediocre system is like selling specialty racing motor oil for your Toyota corolla. I guess everyone wants to believe they can turn their system into a racecar with the right cable setup. It's just so freaking silly! 

^^^ I agree.  As I said before that the cable budget should be proportional to the overall system cost.  If you only have a low end system, then Belden cables or even some zip cords should be OK.  But if your system costs north of 20K or so, then you really need some high end cables so to bring out the best of your system.

Increased metal purity adds to the cost, as well as custom dielectrics.  Beyond the basic and hand woven geometries, machine manufacturing can be quite expensive to set-up/run small batches for the very small high-end audio market.  Take a look at the construction of Nordost cables for instance.

Mr. kennyc

Copper purity: 
The industry standard for cooper used in electricity is 99.98%
All left to improve between the standard cable (99.98%) and the absolute purity (do not exist!) of 100% is 0.02%
No matter how much is that cost, or if there is any truth in that claim, as who can check it, but 0.02% of purity, if equals in 0.02% in conductivity, it is an absolute waist if money. Put it in a thicker cable! You will pay less and gain way more.

Same BS with silver cables vs cooper cables.
Silver is a better conductor, over cooper, by 5%. But as last week crude metal prices, it's 104 times more expensive. Put a thicket cooper cable by 5% and you get an equivalent of the silver cable.
But you will pay so much less.

All those arguments, of desperate cable makers, are BS. they may justify charging a leg and an arm for those says, but they add nothing to your sound. The sad truth is, that they have no idea what cable we need. They make a few but never said which out of their line is the one that will be best for me or you.
I can! the cable can be calculated and when applied, sound improves dramatically. The explanation for why that cable is scientific.

If you only have a low end system, then Belden cables or even some zip cords should be OK.

I have found that using quality cables on a system of any price will enhance the performance of that system - dramatically,
- Provided you choose the cables wisely..

My $350 mini system has rudimentary speaker and power cables made up from left over pieces of wire I had lying around and it sounds so much better, even when played very loud, which was something that I could NOT do before upgrading the cables

I once took one of my power cables to a store to audition a Bluesound Mini Pulse speaker - the guy at the store could not believe the improvements he heard, when I changed to my power cable
- his jaw dropped.

On another occasion, I was fortunate enough to be able to audition (free) a pair of IC’s (MSRP $1800) on my Bluesound Node 2 (MSRP $600) and it performed way above it’s price point
- but some might consider it is ridiculous to have cables of that price on such a component.
- they would probably feel more comfortable spending $1800 upgrading the component resulting in less of an  improvement because their cables are "restricting" the signal

I have repeatedly demonstrated the improvements cables make to friends and family, most of whom are not really into music that much - but they heard the improvements cables make

The point I am trying to make is - even low end components today perform way above their price point when good cables are installed. So opting for cables that will simply "make do" may not be the best way to proceed - especially for "audiophiles"

People often spend hundreds (or even thousands) on upgrading components, when they could have spent less on some decent cables and would have achieved better results.

The "problem" with cable selection...
- you can replace an interconnect, but if the power cable on the attached component(s) is the problem, the new IC will not demonstrate its true abilities
- and the converse is is also true.

As a general "approach" I advise people to start with upgrading their speaker cables
- audition ask questions on this forum for the best performing speaker cables you can afford
- then focus on power cables for source components - they benefit greatly with better power cables
- finally, upgrade your IC's - at this point you should be able to hear significant improvements in sound quality, but it is not all due to the interconnects - the other cables play a huge role in overall system performance
- then, and only then - upgrade the power cable to the amplifier

But a hit and miss approach to cable selection will not do any justice to the components you own.

I consider my cables more important than my components, after all they are the "conduit" for the signals that the components process - so they should be top notch as well

Regards - Steve

Mr. williewonka

Sorry, but none of your reports were on the subject.
Speaker cables do have a significance, when use a higher DF Amp.
Lets say, above 150.
On tube Amp’s or tube alike (McIntosh) the cables are insignificant. As the DF is very low (less than 20, maybe down to 3!) any cable would do.

What exactly justify a cable’s price of US $1,800?
What makes it a high end cable?
Would such a cable (as called high end or high cost) would fit all systems ?

@b4icu - I think I will just say that w.r.t. cables - we will have to agree to disagree.

I have received observations from dozens of people that have implemented the DIY cables i promote, in a variety of systems both tube and solid state and of varying levels of "quality" (including McIntosh) and I am yet to hear that they made little or no difference - most are ecstatic with the levels of improvement they observed.

As for your statements..

What exactly justify a cable’s price of US $1,800?

The answer is simple - improvement in sound quality.

Maybe YOU are not willing to pay that much, but many people will

What makes it a high end cable?

One that provides a significant improvement in sound quality - but it does not necessarily have to be "high priced" - however in audio circles, the two does seem to go hand in hand.

Would such a cable (as called high end or high cost) would fit all systems ?

Quality cables will achieve improvement in most systems - but there are caveats e.g. some TOTL speaker cables that have a very high level of capacitance can cause some solid state amps to oscillate and cause internal damage
- so NO - not ALL cables will be compliant with all systems

Regards

@b4icu

So the difference in resistance, if I read you correctly, in any speaker cable is the ONLY determinant of its sound quality. 
Of course we are not in need to look further into the damping factor, as always the same power amp and also speaker/x-over is used. Right? 🤔

So in this my mentioned case, the cable with the second lowest resistance sounds the worst, the silber litz with 0.2 ohm. 

The copper braid in cotton bedded, the second 'worst' has 0.1 ohm resistance (as allways one only conductor). 

And the best sounding cable, the StraightWire has at 0.3 ohm the highest resistance. 

The DF of the Pass X350.5 is about 700,
and the 3 way Burmester 961 has a linkwitz type x-over... but none of that playes into your equation. If I got your right. 

Something does not mesh with my present learning, looking at your very simplistic argument. At all! 

So, we're either not sharing the same hearing, or some other unknown influence is at work. 

Differences of ~100 milli-ohms at such a high damping factor, being the cause of such noticeable SQ differences, really? 

So, me too, let's agree to disagree 👍✔️

if you under the geometry patents, please elaborate.  If not, waste your money on hokum. 

Twisted cables tend to have higher capacitance but lower inductance on average. It's a trade off so there is no perfect solution.  

This isn't relevant to speaker wire used at home. The main thing is resistance as long as that's kept to less than 5% of a speakers impedance we're good. The capacitance and inductance of the wire is insignificant relative to the capacitance and inductance of the speaker.

There's a whole Facebook group, called "Audio BS", devoted to hating exotic speaker cables.   There's good reason.   

About 10 years ago a buddy of mine was landlord to a hi-end audio distributor.   One night, he went into their space, disconnected their hi-end audio speaker cables, and wired up 24 gauge zip cord.  What Radio Shack used to call "speaker wire" back some 40 years ago.   He did this in such a way that it wasn't visually obvious.  You had to look for it.

The next day he was chatting with the guys who ran the shop and they were gushing forth about how wonderful their rig sounded that day.  He left it there for a week before going back in again in the dead of night and putting things back.

Save your money.

There are plenty of great bargains in speaker cables.....you don’t have to spend thousands of dollars to get a good sound. My high end speaker cables (OCC copper) cost was $368 for 10FT.  

@russbutton - yes your buddy’s little "trick" only proved a well known fact...
- i.e. some people that sell audio components have poor hearing - really !

I have come across sales people that have connected speakers out of phase and were unable to detect the problem. So they have no hope at all at telling which cable performs best based on their "listening abilities".

Lets face it - most audio stores are in it to make money and cables are a hot item once a component or system is sold. But they have to sell "established" brands.

This is why so many of the smaller cable companies sell direct and hope word of mouth gets them the sales they are after

I’ve tried many times to promote a lesser know brand of cable that performs extremely well - to my local stores.

But Stores are driven by their customers, who want established brands because of their resale value. So quality cables from a lessor known brand never get a fair shake.

Basically - it is up to the customer - trust your ears

If you cannot tell the difference between two cables, not a problem - stick with the cables you have.- you’ve just saved a ton of money.

But some of us ARE ABLE to notice the difference between cables - trust me :-)

Regards - Steve

@williewonka Siegfried Linkwitz, who knew a thing or two about audio engineering, used 14 gauge zip cord.   Given that my Linkwitz Orions use four channels of amplification on each side, with 25 foot cable runs to each side, 200 feet of anything other than zip cord would require taking a new line of credit on the house.  Few audiophile visitors leave my home without some amount of envy.

Audio BS Facebook group?! LOL!!! You guys of Audio BS are so much into BS, that you are clearly BS-ing yourself with your made up BS story. Doesn’t it get a bit boring discussing BS among yourselves all the time? Sad life my friend, too bad you spend it feeling miserable. Life is good.... you should enjoy it.

Sooo..., one time, in a band camp....

Steve @williewonka : you are 100% spot on with your very knowledgeable posts. However, I am afraid you are wasting your time with “Audio BS” types. You may not realize, but their hobby is not the audio hobby. Their hobby is hating the audio hobby. A clear form of the recently popular cancel culture 

@russbutton - you are obviously very happy with your system and cables

So - just enjoy the music :-)

Regards - steve

russbutton,
I agree with willie's post above that you should enjoy what you have. However it kind of sounds like you don't want to spend the money on anything other than zip cord so are challenging the improvement others hear with high end speaker cable.  

I know jack about cables or for that matter about high end audio but I do know that spending four figures on the wire is a waste of money for most people. That opportunity cost could go towards better speakers, or towards other enjoyable hobbies or activities. Cleary if you have that type of disposable income perhaps you need to pay more taxes or donate to some worthy cause and just make do with you three-figure a ft. cables.    

@thyname - I’m retired, so I have some time.:-)

I don’t normally participate this enthusiastically - I generally just post my observations and leave it for others to read/decide

But geometry, metallurgy and insulation is sort of "my thing"

I and many others, from Austria, Bulgaria, Australia, Canada, USA, New Zealand, Hong Kong, have looked at these three things closely and we consider our OBSERVATIONS, yes - hundreds of hours (and that’s just ME) of actual listening time, is a pretty darn good indication that selecting the right geometry with the right wire & insulation DOES provide the very best in sound quality.

So when people on this forum extol the virtues of "ZIP CORD" - I figure the rest of the world deserves to hear a little from "the other camp" just to balance things out - to allow them to make an "informed decision"

Don’t get me wrong - Zip cord does "the job"
- but it is a far cry from "the very best job"

Regards - Steve

If you buy more expensive cables, you will be paying more tax. Win/win yes? 

Breaking news to you @scott22: people who buy expensive cables do so with after tax money. Meaning the government wants their share first, and you get to spend what’s left after from your gross income after taxes withheld either through payroll or quarterly estimated payments, or at annual tax time. Just a small clarification in case you don’t pay income tax perhaps because of lack of income. 

Also, statistically, people with high income give more to charity than people with low income. Look it up

I don‘t know whether it’s their geometry, and I don‘t care, but getting a full set of Cardas Gold Reference interconnects at knockdown prices from Parts Connexion was probably one of the best audio investments I have ever made.
A huge upgrade from Blue Jeans, and have revealed every upgrade I have made in spades. They appear very clear in comparison and do not seem to impose to impose any signature of their own which masks changes I make.
It was easy to get a handle on the Blue Jean‘s sonic signature. Not these. Worth every penny and more.

^^^ I am glad you were able to get a huge improvement over the Blue Jeans.  I used to have Blue Jeans speaker cables and interconnects but it was easily bested by a set of QED cables that didn't cost that much more than Blue Jeans.

My experience is that the tech is not all mumbo jumbo.  That said, in my new system I shopped for cables last and found that the prices in many cases were out of sight.  I found that the cost of new cables even in the middle of most manufacturers product lines were too high as a percent of the total system price, even when discarding the old adage of percentage allocations to different parts of a system which I realize no longer holds true.  That led me to believe that cables have become a good way for dealers to maintain their overall margins, particularly when putting together a system price.  Brick and mortar retailers have high overhead, so that's just the way the economics work.  You can see this same principle at play if you purchase "regular" av cables at Best Buy vs., say Monoprice.  My solution was to shoot for established manufacturers with a good quality "story" and reputation and then find open box or used, which I did.  I feel I got good value that way.

Here we go again. 

Mr. justmetoo

Do speaker cables have DF?
NO
Amp's have.
So the speaker cable is calculated per DF and length.
Still, resistance is all that matters.
Some had tried it, and the feedback was amazing.

I surmise that most audio cable naysayers cannot reconcile the cable's individual component costs with the final price.  Looking from this angle I can see how high cable prices can rub folks the wrong way.

However, I don't consider the manufacturing costs/retail price, rather, I focus on price/performance. 
For instance:
Option "A" use inexpensive cables
Option "B"  try out a say $200 cable hopefully for free (borrow, returnable).  Then I can decide if there is an uptick in performance, am I willing to pay $200 for this uptick?  I can still not purchase and be no worse than option "A".
With option "B", at least I have choices and additional information (a data point) with zero $ invested and the possibility to elevate my system.  
I suspect that many naysayers are not even willing to try, being emotionally resentful of the often steep pricing and entrenching their resentment with some argument.  

I'm also of the belief that everything in the audio chain matters.  Whether cables should be elevated to component level is subjective.  For me, because I believe cables sound different from one another, I treat them as components.  As I move up the audio food chain, I don't want my cables to be the weak bottleneck.

I agree that a lot of audio cable manufacture's advertisement/marketing is filled with a lot of subjective marketing hype, but I don't it reaches the level as being BS since BS can mean deceitful/lying. 

When researching/shopping for components, I give the most weight to opinions of audiophiles who has purchased/used the component with no skin in the game (like a dealer peddling his product).  If enough voices sing the same tune, I'm of the belief that I can obtain similar results if purchased - the caveat of course is it can be system dependent.  I give little/no value to manufacturer's hype.

Is a person who purchases a expensive audio cable being duped by marketing hype, placebo, or false imagination?  I'd say generally no, at least for the very expensive cables.  Seems most are educated professionals (with incomes enough to further splurge in this high-end hobby) who when you read their reviews/posts, are very serious about the performance of their systems and are deliberate/thoughtful on why they purchased the cable and how it performs. 
I don't believe that as the price of cables increase, their testimony validity decreases.  If so, what's that based on?

Audio BS Facebook group?  Taking a magnifying glass to outliers and calling it the truth is misleading.  You need to get an "impartial" sample size(s) to be able to make educated guesses/claims regarding the population as a whole.

Please help me out on this Geometry idea.
Is it comes to replace all others:
Bi wire
High purity OFC cable
Directional
Cryo treatment
Silver over copper
Skin Effect
Snake oil...
Or all still apply but the geometry was just added to the list?

Do we have any proof (measured, scientific or other), that shows any advantage of a cable with geometry vs a none geometry cable?
Or we just need to take the manufacturer and sales guys for granted?

I need to admit, that the list above, shows of great creativity.
I would also give them the credit of the convincing, as so many fall in and reached to their wallets...till the next idea came out, and it worked again and again.

But at the bottom line, after we all had our lesson, spending on no good cables, How come no one ever wondered, why do different cables sound different on your system?
As if it does, there is a physical or electrical relation between a better sounding and a less good sounding cable.
Did ever, a cable maker stepped up to say:

This is why cable A, sounds better than cable B ?

And please don’t bring up any of the list explanations. as none apply!
I figured it up guys. 
It works and works well.

@b4icu - ALL cables have a "geometry" - it refers the manner in which the wires in a cable are situated with respect to each other inside the cable sleeve (if it has one). Some examples of geometry are...
- parallel - such as Van den Hul speaker cables.
- twisted pairs - some are tightly twisted (and often referred to as Helix) and some have a "longer" twist like some Beldon cables
- ribbon - such as TOTL Nordost speaker cables
- braided - such as the lower end Kimber Kable cables
- Helix - this term has been used by many different brands and may actually refer to some very different geometries, so as a "term" you should not think they are all the same.

Geometry, as a "term", has been around for many years e.g. Kimber has always promoted their braided geometry. But referring to "geometry" by sales people may be something new.

Good Brands mostly reveal the geometry of their cables, often because they are difficult to replicate. If a brand does not reveal it’s geometry, I tend to shy away from them.

From all of the auditioning of cables and connectors I have performed over the past few years (literally hundreds of hours), I have found that the ear is amazingly good at detecting extremely fine details, i.e. once the observer knows what to listen for. I have also found that to hear the differences requires time to allow the cables/connectors to settle/burn-in.

Unfortunately for the consumer, my approach may not be a viable option. But the one thing I tell people is - when auditioning anything - take along your favorite LIVE RECORDING and listen for venue acoustics, those little echoes and reverberations present in the background, because these are the sounds that high resolving gear/cables will really bring out

When it comes to cable selection, the terms used in the advertising literature are sometimes "misrepresented", so how does a consumer proceed?
- with the internet it is quite easy to lookup information pertaining to the brands being considered - look for diagrams or explanation on how the cable is constructed
- ask people on this forum for their opinions on a cable’s performance
- self education on the various hyperbole being used by sales people to gain an understanding.

But the only real acid "test" is to try different cables - preferably in your own system...
- maybe a store will have loaners

OR - ask a store to audition a couple of different brands, but in the best system they have.

I once asked to audition a $600 streamer in a $60,000 system - the sales person obliged and got the sale - all for a 5 minute demo. It demonstrated just how good that streamer could perform - good cables will respond accordingly.

Hope that helps Steve