NO !!!
The speaker cable industry, unfortunately, has no knowledge about the product they make. As so, they invented as many "Urban Legends" to Differentiate their product over others, or penetrate the market if new.
The ONLY thing that matters is the cables resistance. Resistance is a result of length and thickness. It should be way lower than the Amp’s DF.
That’s the only thing that matters.
All other:
Geometry (a new trend)
Purity (OFC)
Directional
Cryo treatment
Skin Effect
Silver over Copper
Structure
Shielding
and Snakes Oil :-)
Are all in the same ridiculous BS, spread by the industry.
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Mr.
speedbump6
I understand about speaker cables more than any other.
It was always left to charlatans who has no idea what cables the customers need.
The BS around it, went from weird to bizarre.
It was a trend, waves of BS and now we are at geometry.
It's a temporary BS till the next one.
The only thing matters with a speaker cable, is it's relative resistance value to the Amp's Ro or DF.
The other parameter that goes in, is the cable length.
Put that in a calculation, would generate results of some thicker cables that you would find on the market.
Most cable on the market are of #12 or #14 awg, as it is easy to work with and they fit into most banana plugs and spades.
What about some thicker cable, required for Amp's with DF of 400 and above, at a 10' length? They should be of #0 awg or more.
No geometry, no cryo, no directionality, no purity, no silver over cooper, no, no, no...even the bi wire is a BS. Run a simple simulation on Spice and you will realize that a single wire, with the same resistance of the two (bi wire) is better.
But who will give up a double sale over a single?
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Mr. justmetoo
At the bottom line, all that matters is the resistance of your speaker cable vs. the Amp's DF (Ro).
All the descriptions of yours about the three cables, are good for Fri. eve, to tell around the coffee table, or to put asleep a kid.
None has any contribution to the facts of electricity and electronics.
As the speaker cable is an extension of the Amp's Ro, the speaker load is of no significance, and so are all the BS that the cable makers and sales guys spread (as a pandemic).
When you get the right cable (calculated) the sound is so much better.
After that, no matter what you put there, it wont match or improve. |
Mr. kennyc
Copper purity:
The industry standard for cooper used in electricity is 99.98%
All left to improve between the standard cable (99.98%) and the absolute purity (do not exist!) of 100% is 0.02%
No matter how much is that cost, or if there is any truth in that claim, as who can check it, but 0.02% of purity, if equals in 0.02% in conductivity, it is an absolute waist if money. Put it in a thicker cable! You will pay less and gain way more.
Same BS with silver cables vs cooper cables.
Silver is a better conductor, over cooper, by 5%. But as last week crude metal prices, it's 104 times more expensive. Put a thicket cooper cable by 5% and you get an equivalent of the silver cable.
But you will pay so much less.
All those arguments, of desperate cable makers, are BS. they may justify charging a leg and an arm for those says, but they add nothing to your sound. The sad truth is, that they have no idea what cable we need. They make a few but never said which out of their line is the one that will be best for me or you.
I can! the cable can be calculated and when applied, sound improves dramatically. The explanation for why that cable is scientific. |
Mr. williewonka
Sorry, but none of your reports were on the subject.
Speaker cables do have a significance, when use a higher DF Amp.
Lets say, above 150.
On tube Amp’s or tube alike (McIntosh) the cables are insignificant. As the DF is very low (less than 20, maybe down to 3!) any cable would do.
What exactly justify a cable’s price of US $1,800?
What makes it a high end cable?
Would such a cable (as called high end or high cost) would fit all systems ? |
Mr. justmetoo
Do speaker cables have DF?
NO
Amp's have.
So the speaker cable is calculated per DF and length.
Still, resistance is all that matters.
Some had tried it, and the feedback was amazing. |
Please help me out on this Geometry idea.
Is it comes to replace all others:
Bi wire
High purity OFC cable
Directional
Cryo treatment
Silver over copper
Skin Effect
Snake oil...
Or all still apply but the geometry was just added to the list?
Do we have any proof (measured, scientific or other), that shows any advantage of a cable with geometry vs a none geometry cable?
Or we just need to take the manufacturer and sales guys for granted?
I need to admit, that the list above, shows of great creativity.
I would also give them the credit of the convincing, as so many fall in and reached to their wallets...till the next idea came out, and it worked again and again.
But at the bottom line, after we all had our lesson, spending on no good cables, How come no one ever wondered, why do different cables sound different on your system?
As if it does, there is a physical or electrical relation between a better sounding and a less good sounding cable.
Did ever, a cable maker stepped up to say:
This is why cable A, sounds better than cable B ?
And please don’t bring up any of the list explanations. as none apply!
I figured it up guys.
It works and works well. |
Mr.
andy2
I think it's the opposite. That is the higher the current, the more geometry matters.
Could you please explain? Why?
The way I see it, geometry matters only for the profit line of those who sale it.
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Mr. kennyc
A thick cable's resistance is so low, that the inductance and capacitance are negligible. So is the Ro of a high DF Amp.
Is that you confront me, or is an engineer at a white something website?
I was very opened minded. I'd found it. I know what makes a good cable better. I tried it myself. I made a few cables to my friends: they loved the results. And I came up on Audiogon, in 2018, did an experiment and the results were all on my favorit: stunning.
All industries says on cable:
Directional,
Cryo treated,
Bi wire,
Pure copper,
Silver over copper,
Skin effect,
Geometry,
Snake's oil
They were all checked (Open minded you claim) and found none relevant. All were deception to make people pay for something that do nothing. You may think that the Snake's oil is the worst.
No! its only the most obvious. The rest need a bit brain to dissolve.
None of your idea of "open minded" do not show any engineering or physical explanation, nor a compare to a conventional cable.
They are all stories. like the bible. I'm happy that on the cables you didn't gave the credit to God!
Not to say, that according to my religion, God is off on Shabbat.
Well what about yourself sir, are you open minded to check mine?
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This is good when you are happy with the sound...game over for you.
Good luck Chuck.
But for one who is chasing that happiness, how many tries and errors, with large cash spendings he need to get through?
Well, randomly, checking cables that sound better than the previous (compare with a far memory...think that your ears are a measuring instrument and relay on that?)
Or, ask for a calc. and go straight to the right cable.
More simple and way less costly.
If I would be from the cables industry (I'm not), I would definitely recommend and encourage your way.
Every time you try again, it's a profit in my wallet. Good for me.
Not so good for you...
😉
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Mr. kennyc
Sorry, you just used an old trick to deverse me to a website of no significance at all. There is no science involved in that site. BS? a lot! You really look for science? The cable's character that matters is its resistance. As the cable is an extension of the Amp's Ro (DF) it's value of resistance shall be low, to keep the DF as close to it's given figures. That can be calculated. It will differ from system to system, by the Amp's DF and required cable length. It works! You are kindly invited to my thread of
How to select a good Speaker Cable
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/how-to-select-a-good-speaker-cable
Read the feedback of those who were interested in my theory and tried it out, for as little as US $100 or less. After this try, cables purchased for thousands of $ went to storage. Geometry? First try a calculated thicker cable. That's more like science than
Geometry. Belden is a respected raw cable manufacturer. They do not make Audio speaker cables. They make spools of cables: all kinds. When I was with a VOA (Voice Of America) station RFP, they asked for Belden. They said specifically what cable (P/N) and how to treat it. None was regarding
Audio speaker cables.
Using the Belden name is nice, but it doesn't impresses me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqFLXayD6e8
:-) |
@
sj00884
+1, thank you! 👍 😉
Michael |
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Mr.
alextobi7
My say regards speaker cables.
For interconnect, capacitance and inductance do matter.
But I'm not into IC cables.
For speaker cables, I'll stick to my ground.
When most cable makers, sale #14 to #12 cables, just because it is more convenient to make them - capacitance and inductance may influence.
But when you use a #4 awg or thicker, the series resistance is so low, that capacitance and inductance are negligible.
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Mr. timinphoenix
For your say: "
Power cords have one purpose: deliver 120 volts a few feet from a wall outlet".
In my country as well as in many other, its 230V @ 50Hz.
Power cables are tested as so:
Take that "super expensive and fancy" new power cable and exchange with it, your kitchen kettle cord.
Boil some water and make yourself a cup of tea.
If that taste any better than the one you made with the original cable
($ 1.50), than the
"super expensive and fancy" worth its weight in gold!
But if not, it worth just as much as $ 1.50...
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Mr. mitch2
Could you believe, that such a marketing really works? after all, it's just some snake oil. No evidence, No spec. No measurement results,
Nothing!
If accounting is happy, consumer is stupid and well ripped off..
By Albert Einstein, only stupidity is infinite. |
Mr.
madcow
Sorry to ruin your sales. COVID-19 and now me...
Bad economy.
Even President Trump dislikes it.
But there is no difference in a PC whatever is the task that the electricity on the other end does.
If you think otherwise, keep salling power cables with snake oil and way overpriced.
You are still miles away from the truth. You make a living by deceiving people, and sale them nothing for plenty of $.
There are names for that in the English language.
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Mr. mahgister
Is it now a debate about stupidity?
Who ever sold a cable (of any kind) with absurd tells as:
Directional,
Silver,
Copper high purity,
Cryo treatment,
Skin effect,
Additional filter box and the latest:
Geometry,
is a: ...
And as for any deal, there are two sides. So the consumer came out stupid and cheated.
Your quotes about the "expression" do not change nor contributes anything. |
Mr. madcow
The fact it's going on for years, doesn't make it right.
The fact is, it was a deception from the beginning. As long as it worked:
New tels, new arguments, new customers, the business kept going.
Now it's called Geometry. Till the next BS idea.
Look at prostitution. It's the oldest profession and still exist.
Is that a good idea to use or become one? |
So many, with the same agenda, all try to make a sale.
Here we go revealing the truth.
You must be one of kind.
Its long since I've seen so many with no shame.
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