Are 500 hours too many for a used hi-end cartridge?

that's cool

Just purchased and installed a new A-T ART9. Very pleased with the sound initially. Can’t directly compare to other cartridges, but vinyl is superior in every comparison With hi-res digital.

@cleeds i am not happy to buy used cartridges with 500 hrs on them, i prefer NOS vintage cartridges or opened and tested NOS samples (this is the best) with something like 100 hrs max, from audiophiles (not from amateurs). 

But used records from 99% of the dealers most likely played with average cartridges for decades and if the condition is nice (fair grading) it's not a problem. 

I do not belong to the group of elitist audiophiles who comparing vinyl to digital and for this reason can accept only overpriced audiophile pressing re-issues with very limited choice of music on this format. 

I want normal records, originals, made for everyone in analog era, not today for audiophiles on re-issues that cost more than MINT originals 

@bukanona. Unfortunately, several of my old mono LPS are ruined due to a worn stylus. Now, I grant you, if you don’t mind a ton of snap, crackle and pop, then one could still listen to these...with the cartridges you suggest. 

There is 2 main factors which can damage records nowadays and first one is more common:
- too low VTF
- damaged or misaligned stylus

If you have mono record which is shot, try it with true mono cartridge with 0,7 mil diamond or if you have religion against conical with 0,3x0,7 mil elliptical.  Just it must be true mono.

Hint these old mono classical or jazz records was played with 1 mil or even 3 mil stylus.
So you can try even with used cartridge just it have to be true mono. You'll rediscover that these dull records are still alive.  

chakster

... i do not believe that stylus with 500 hrs on it can destroy any LP with simple play at correct VTF.

The number of hours on a stylus is only one factor to assess. Cartridges that were not properly aligned when new often result in styli that are worn unevenly. Styli that were used to play dirty records are also subject to accelerated wear, and then of course there's the potential of damage just from mishandling.

If you're happy buying used cartridges with supposedly 500 hours on them, be my guest! But I don't buy used cartridges or used tires, and for many of the same reasons.

@daveyf @cleeds

Haha, everyone on this forum aware that i hate conical styli (and never use them myself), but i just said what other people often posted about it here on audiogon.

I must say i do not believe that stylus with 500 hrs on it can destroy any LP with simple play at correct VTF. This is not a gramophone needle, so common ...

I’m currently buying James Brown records made in the 70’s from the original mastertape in JAPAN by Polydor K.K. in SAL74 System Sound Revolution series. This is by far the best ever pressing of James Brown and nothing can beat it, reissues are very bad. Everything on Polydor K.K. is better than US original Polydor pressing. It was a huge label. But Japanese knew how to make records in the 70’s better. This is just one example of the superior pressing from the mid 70's. 

I was thinking why do they call it SAL74 ?
SAL74 is cutting amp for Neumann Lathe, anyone can comment on it ?

@chakster Before you call someone’s statement as questionable, look at what you are going to write first. Your post about a conical stylus is comical.

@bukanona I own a number of mono records, some of them are just about unlistenable...because they have been played in the past with a worn out cartridge. Just because it is a mono recording does not stop it from getting damaged in the first play by that worn out stylus.

Seems that you guys don't listen mono records.

chakster

... many audiogon users claimed they're fine with cartridges with 500hrs on it even if the profile is conical, they do believe "it is well polished".

And that's just fine if they're happy! I expect to get high performance from LP, so I wouldn't be happy with a conical stylus even if it was brand new. Conical styli have multiple issues, including that they just can't reproduce HF properly.

I'm fine with used vintage records purchased not from audiophiles, but from the record dealers and private collectors (if the condition is strong VG+ or better). Still better than 99% of the reissues.  

I've had great luck buying used records, too. I'm not sure if they're as superior to modern reissues as you claim   - I have found great recordings and pressings from every era of recorded music. (Of course, the '70s with its oil shortage was the worst. But even then ... )

Here's the question, is your record collection that valuable to you that you will risk the next record, or the next, if the stylus is  considerably worn and the result is a gradual destruction of your groove wall due to a 500+ hour stylus?

@cleeds Dave's statement is questionable because many audiogon users claimed they're fine with cartridges with 500hrs on it even if the profile is conical, they do believe "it is well polished".  

I'm fine with used vintage records purchased not from audiophiles, but from the record dealers and private collectors (if the condition is strong VG+ or better). Still better than 99% of the reissues.  

chakster

... if an LP can be destroyed from one play then all those 30-40 y.o. vintage LPs must be unlistenable, but they are better than new reissues. 

That's the logical fallacy known as the excluded middle. It's certainly true that an LP can be destroyed with a single play; it's absurd to suggest all 30-year-old records have been improperly played.

Then there's the advantage of often being able to get good sound out of a damaged record by using a more modern stylus profile.

Dave, if an LP can be destroyed from one play then all those 30-40 y.o. vintage LPs must be unlistenable, but they are better than new reissues.  

One thing to consider when buying a used cartridge, and I know that the folks trying to sell them will NOT like this! That is, it is fairly well known that just one (1) play of a record with a damaged stylus is going to ruin that record! So, if you want to sacrifice a record to see what the condition is like after that one play, no issue. Here's the question, is your record collection that valuable to you that you will risk the next record, or the next, if the stylus is  considerably worn and the result is a gradual destruction of your groove wall due to a 500+ hour stylus? 
Some may say that every time you play a record, you slightly damage the groove wall which is very possible, but why increase the likelihood of that happening with a known 500 hour+ stylus?

If cartridge aging is an issue, then y'all need to know of this guy, who does phono cartridge repair and retipping.

http://www.phonocartridgeretipping.com/index.html

Great information Chakster on stylus life and I love the toothbrush analogy. 
I agree. A new ART 9 would be a much better choice than a used cartridge. 
1st off we are terrible at estimating usage and there is a tendency to minimize this. If you asked me how much time I have on any one cartridge the honest answer would be, "I have no idea." It would be better to go by the original sale date. But still this does not indicate the condition of the stylus as it depends entirely on record hygiene and tonearm setup. Buying a used cartridge is a crap shoot. If the cartridge were less than 6 months old and had not been damaged I might consider it otherwise it is better to stick with a new cartridge. A note on re tipping. This is best done by the original manufacturer. A top of the line cartridge will cost more to re tip than a middle of the line cartridge costs new excepting perhaps Soundsmith.  Last "preservative" does absolutely nothing. It is 100% Freon ( a type of chlorofluorocarbon) think brake cleaning fluid. It is a great solvent with a very low vapor pressure (evaporates almost immediately) It's best use in audio is to clean tape heads. 
Very minor changes in the shape of a stylus are extremely hard to see under a microscope. I examine mine all the time at my office. Once wear is visible you are certainly at the point where you are chiseling your records. Is wear before this occurs audible? I sort of doubt it as the distortion occurs at very high frequencies. People my age certainly could not hear it. So I do believe watching for flat spots is useful. Once you detect this it is time for a new cartridge or stylus. I have been meaning to try a USB microscope as I hear they are useful for this and they are quite inexpensive.   

I use LAST Stylast on my Denon DL-103R/Audio Musikraft cartridge.  I'm about 400 hours in and there is no discernable wear to the stylus when examined under 100X magnification.  All my LP's are treated with LAST Record Preservative.  So I guess I'm happy.

1. no, most quoted low hours tend to be vastly understated, reality without documented proof is a guess at best,
2. yes, cartridge components deteriorate over time, with or without use,
3. yes, see 1.

:)

The only used cart I ever bought was when  starting to assemble my first high end system and looking to save money, being fresh out of college.

 It was a Spectral cart (anyone remember those) that i bought on Audiomart newsletter and the entire assembly was tilted. The seller didn’t want to return the money and I think settled on refunding half after I got the owner of audiomart involved. My bank had told me incorrectly that a bank check (or certified, I forget) could be cancelled. I confirmed it several times and was always told yes. When I tried to cancel the check, of course it wasn’t- but my bank paid off anyway since I had people’s names that told me the wrong info.

never bought a used phono cart again, but also bought many used high end gear and never had an issue other than that once.

incidentally my strain gauge cart has many thousands of hours and now I want to have it checked .  Sounsmith was quoted saying a strain gauge owner put 6000 hours on listening to vinyl all day long, and after sending back to Peter to look at under a microscope, the stylus still was not worn out.  Sounds crazy, but Tam henderson from reference recordings claims he plays test lacquers with the cart and they don’t wear out! 

I think enough people have answered to confuse you on buying used or new. I want to share, instead, how I keep track of my cartridge hours. I once purchased a box of hand tally counters (the sort that you see where places are trying to count how many people have entered.) Maybe 12 bucks for a pack of 6 on Amazon when I acquired them. 

 With a label machine, I indicate the cartridge and the date I acquired it. Then, every time I play an album side on that cartridge, I click the appropriate tally counter once. This may sound onerous, but between using a carbon fiber brush, some blue tak on the stylus, and pressing the tally counter probably requires 20 seconds maximum. More like 10. It’s a worthwhile routine to develop and keeps needle and vinyl in excellent condition. (This assumes you first cleaned your vinyl properly on acquisition). It’s just like brushing your teeth—proper habits preserve health and money. 
I then divide by three to give an estimate of the hours, knowing that this will yield a slightly higher number since few albums sides are a full 20 minutes.

Then you are empowered to decide how many hours a given stylus should last, or when you need to scope the stylus. Simple. 

@cakids You don’t need a local vendor, you need the AT’s distributor support so you can give your cartridge (when it’s worn) to the distributor of the Audio-Technica and he can ship it back to Japan. Audio-Technica do not repair cartridges, they do not re-tip cartridges, you will get a brand new cartridges with their exchange program (for about 60% of retail cost), only if you have valid serial number and if it was purchased from official AT dealer/distributor in your region. Don’t buy grey market samples, they will never service them.

Forget about re-tippers, this is not the same.

Stay with Audio-Technica to get full support from their distributor, this is much better, believe me.

When one ART9 is worn they will give you another if you send yours back, new cartridge with new suspension is much better than third party re-tip. Or maybe you could even upgrade to ART-1000 one day, if they have upgrade program. Only official AT distributor can help you with it. 

Thanks again for your comments. The posters seem divided on pro-used cartridges vs anti-used. Taking all your thoughts into consideration, for me, at this price range, I’m probably going new with an AT ART9, to minimize variables. Also to have a local human to deal with if there are problems.
Happy listening.
PS I may have a slightly used Hana EL for sale if this works out (somewhere between 50 and 200 hours of use I estimate). Or maybe I’ll just keep it.

cakids

In so long as the cartridge has been well cared for and properly aligned, I believe you should be safe.  A good photograph of the stylus at close magnification would be useful. 

I will make one remark here:

Some people just don’t understand that some vintage cartridges from the legendary cartridge designers can be purchased NOS ( NEW OLD STOCK) - never used! Even if they are made in the 70/80/90’s and very rare today. A lot of cartridges are in private collections still unused!

Some great vintage cartridges can be purchased even FACTORY SEALED in the box.

Some cartridges are as new, but opened and tested to avoid any doubt about suspension condition or anything that can be degraded in time, therefore they are tested. And that’s god we have honest dealers and private enthusiasts. I bought many units like that and i’m more than happy. Some people have too many cartridges and do not use them much, it can be a unit with 50 hrs on it or even less.

A lot of exotic vintage replacement styli can be purchased NOS/NIB (still sealed). And this is the only way to upgrade your vintage cartridge body with amazing NOS original stylus, often with exotic materials that simply not available new (like beryllium or hollow pipe boron).

Everyone who’s been buying a used cartridges learned something and people are not idiots to buy MC cartridges in bad condition like "used tooth brush".

Apparently you don’t have to put a cartridge in your mounth ?

And finally i hope people are not afraid to buy vintage records, those great original pressings, this is crème de la crème of analog, not your re-issues. And again, those vintage recorded can be found MINT- or SEALED or simply in Excellent condition. I buy a lot of used records!



P.S. Any new high-end cartridge will be considered USED when it’s been opened and tested. Official dealers often sells such items as "DEMO" even with full warranty on them. This is a great opportunity to buy with 30-40% discount some very nice and often expensive cartridge from legit distributor with full support. Such demo cartridges have been used by distributor (importer) to demonstrate how good it is and i believe even used it must be a great cartridge (if you believe in burn-in then you don’t have to suffer because it’s already burned-in). SoraSound often offering demo cartridges after all of them inspected and cleaned by the manufacturer (ZYX). This is only one example, but i know for sure how it works.

@vegasears  
Ever hear of bleach? Disinfectant? Those tools in the dentists office are used in many mouths before they get used in your...of course, that is IF you go to the dentist
@cleeds 
I would never recommend anyone buy used cartridges. I'm glad for those who won't &  leave them for me.  Great Supply & low demand makes it better for me.

You can change coils, suspension and stylus in MC cartridge. Not in all of them but it’s possible.

In MM cartridge you can change stylus easily.

So if you look to buy used toothbrush try Pickering they do have something similar.

vegasears

No, buying a used cartridge is like buying a used tooth brush.

I couldn't agree more. It amazes me that some here actually recommend used cartridges that have been out of production for decades.

No, buying a used cartridge is like buying a used tooth brush.

Miller Carbon, You wrote, "Look at it this way. The vast majority of the sound of a cartridge comes from everything other than the stylus. The vast majority of wear on a cartridge is only the stylus. Therefore the one thing most likely to be worn out is also the one thing least likely to matter."  That was at 10:32 PM on Apr 10.  Since your next post after that one was a masterpiece of satire, I assume you must have been joking also when you wrote the above.  It would be easier if you would flag your humorous remarks.

Buying used cartridges is akin to buying used record albums. You must be careful and screen both the cartridge and the seller IMO. What does the stylus look like under magnification? Does the seller have good vinyl practices? 500 hrs is on the cusp of what I would look at and obviously should be priced accordingly. Unless it is a particular cartridge priced very good, I'd probably wait for another with less hours. Depends on how common the cartridge for sale is...how often does it come up for sale?

I have bought & sold used cartridges. I kept track of how many hrs on the used ones I sold. Biggest surprise is how slowly the hrs accumulate. The last one I sold (Ebony L) had 300 hrs on it after years of play. My guess before the final tally would have been at least 500. I listen quite often....sometimes daily. I play 90% of my music via TT. So I’m not a light user.

It used to be said that most audiophiles were honest to a fault. Maybe I’m a fool for not believing that everyone is a no good scalawag who’d steal the candy from a laughing Baby’s mouth like the majority here seem to believe. But the Zyx cartridge I bought sounds really good. And it helps me forget that the world full of nerdowells & thieves (-:

If in the $1K price range its hard to go wrong with an Audio Technica ART9. You might also find a discounted price on an Ortofon Cadenza Red. Folks seem to like the Hana cartridges also. 

Smart move!

Lots of interesting thoughts, and few entertaining ones. (Like now I have  to catalog the cost ratios of all my components to see if they meet the audiophile acceptable standards.)
Seriously, this thread has convinced me to buy new - and from a brick and mortar dealer.  We have several in my neck of the woods.

Thanks all.

@chakster, I didn’t know I could fit a better stylus on the Red. How is that listed? Do I simply search for a replacement stylus for that cartridge and choose from among those listed?

@bob540

Blue and Silver styli are direct replacement for Red and recommended by Ortofon.

If you want to experiment you could also try much better profiles like Bronze (Nude FineLine) and Black (Nude Shibata), read more. Those are not recommended by Ortofon for Red, but if you will look at the specs and will read advanced users comments online you will find out that they may be compatible too ?

I have been fortunate buying used cartridges, and I have done so. But the way I look at it I want to buy a cartridge that is above a certain level where it makes the idea of retipping an economic possibility. My opinion is this. Cartridge manufacturers buy their diamond and cantilevers from suppliers such as Namiki and Ogura. If a retipper uses diamonds from them, such as Namiki, if you get there higher quality offerings the differences are going to be minimal. I once had two Koetsu Urushi and I lost the diamond on one of them during playback. I had it retipped by Andy Kim with the appropriate Namiki diamond, I compared it to the OEM cartridge I had on hand, and I could detect no meaningful differences. 

I bought a Transfiguration Audio Proteus from a dealer he took in on trade in. Price was great $2K for a $6K cartridge that was vetted with a reported 500 hours. I had it sent straight to Andy and he evaluated the tip and reported minimal wear, with an estimate of 300 hour range use. But that is only an estimate, as he said minimal wear viewed under a scope. So I use up the rest of the hours, which could be another 1700 and I send it off to someone like VAs, or Expert Stylus and put $500 into it for a tune up and new diamond. I think this makes good economic sense. I would not be retipping cartridges like an Audio Technica OC9 III. Just not the value there.

If buying from a private party I tend to look at his equipment, how long he/she has been doing this, and what boards they have participated in. Experienced owners tend to treat their cartridges well. There is one fellow who sells on AG and USAM who is sort of a dealer really who I would not touch his stuff with a 10 foot pole. Everything has 100 to 200 hours, and he has always got his stuff from famous "collectors". He has interesting cartridges come though, and I am tempted, but if you read enough posts about him there are people who are quite unhappy. Not worth rolling the dice with his products in my opinion. 

Buying used cartridges is like buying used cars. Always a reward versus risk calculation. I have been fortunate doing it, but I have had a dud once in my early days of trying. Fellow got a bad cartridge by me, and I got it repaired by Andy but it died an early death and was not repairable after that. I got my moneys worth out of it, or so I tell myself. 

Everybody says 500 hours how can you know it could be a big lie.I myself would never buy a used cartridge.Its a crap shoot!!

@chakster, I didn’t know I could fit a better stylus on the Red.  How is that listed?  Do I simply search for a replacement stylus for that cartridge and choose from among those listed?  

I would think a big issue with how these old records were played would be the heavier tracking force, that wouldn’t be adjustable on the cheaper record players back then.  Also, I didn’t hear about cleaning records until the early 70’s, when I got my first turntable and was reading about audio equipment.  I recall getting brand new records with a few pops mixed in (mostly just heard on quiet passages), which we thought was just part of the medium at the time.  And, of course, who thought of replacing a needle after so many hours of playing — those things lasted the life on the player, right!  😲

I have come across a few old records now that still sound muffled when I play them.  Do you think further cleaning would help, or are the grooves likely permanently damaged and no amount of cleaning would help?  Thanks for the info. 

hi,
1.mostly not, i keep tracking of playing hrs of my Zyx and if i trust humans then somebody else does.
2.playing time is important, but if you use a cartridge over 30 years old then most likely the suspension would be questionable.
3. depends from tip profile, pedigree of cartridge and playing conditions
(LP's, weight, alignment....)

Pertaining to my situation of being a “tight budget audiophile” (if there is such a thing): If one has an inexpensive turntable with the stock tonearm — in my case a Denon DP-300F with an Ortofon 2M Red cartridge — does it make sense to put a more expensive, higher quality cartridge on that tonearm?

You can simply use better Ortofon stylus with your cartridge, you will have to replace stylus anyway so you can try better one on the same cartridge.

Modern cartridge like 2M Red is not better than most of the Vintage MM/MI cartridges you could use. For example an old inexpensive Ortofon M20FL Super with FineLine stylus is better than 2M Red and many others.

@millercarbonI don’t understand why people waste their  time writing nonsense. And worse,  I end up wasting my time reading it. And then waste more time writing about it. 

Records must always be played on period correct cartridges. Playing mono records with stereo cartridges can result in severe damage or even death. Also never play any record with a cartridge that costs more than the record collection. While some have reported good results with cartridges mounted on arms that cost the same it is nevertheless advisable to mount the cartridge on a turntable that cost more than the phono stage. Under no circumstances should the power cord equal the cartridge. Unless you are over 3000 records. At 10k records anything goes and you can have up to five turntables, seven arms and 15 cartridges- not counting mono of course. 

There are probably even more irrelevant audiophool dogmatic canards but it is late and, oh wait did you say JC Penney portable record player with the included ceramic cartridge from 1965? Why yes you did! Well never mind then! That is the one exception! That baby was made for the Ortofon 2M Red!

Pertaining to my situation of being a “tight budget audiophile” (if there is such a thing):   If one has an inexpensive turntable with the stock tonearm — in my case a Denon DP-300F with an Ortofon 2M Red cartridge — does it make sense to put a more expensive, higher quality cartridge on that tonearm?

And, given that the records likely to be played on that turntable are 40-60 years old and played on equipment of lesser quality than the Denon . . . like a Penncrest (JC Penney) portable record player with the included ceramic cartridge from 1965 . . does it make sense to play them using a higher quality modern cartridge than the Ortofon 2M Red?

Maybe ask the seller to take a really good picture of the stylus?

Look at it this way. The vast majority of the sound of a cartridge comes from everything other than the stylus. The vast majority of wear on a cartridge is only the stylus. Therefore the one thing most likely to be worn out is also the one thing least likely to matter. 

As usual when stating something perfectly obviously true people will scream and argue this cannot be. Yet it explains so well the experience of so many who have used and enjoyed many really high end cartridges for years and years and thousands of hours. 

But then I am a genuine example of what someone around here called an iconoclast. I just don't see how hours matter. What are you gonna do? Scope it every hundred hours? And then what? Oh, its worn. Guess I better replace it. Even though it still sounds better than when it was new. I don't think so. What you are gonna do is use it until you feel like getting something better. 

You are never even once gonna look at the stylus. That's what I think.

Current analog front ends are:
Hana EL, Pro-ject RPM-9 with Evolution graphite arm. EAR 834P phono pre.
Vintage HOMC Adcom Crosscoil with Soundsmith ruby upgrade (really), Oracle Delphi V with granite plinth, SME 309 arm, Manley Chinook phono pre.
Both systems feed vacuum tube amps.
Previous favorite cartridges included Ortofon Cadenza Blue, Sumiko Blackbird.

There is no direct correlation between price and quality when it comes to $1000 or $2000 cartridges. More important is perfect tonearm/cartridge matching, capability of your phono preamp if you're using LOMC and your personal satisfaction with one or another model, they can be low compliance or mid compliance, silver soil or copper soil, different stylus profile and overall different sound presentation (different flavor).  

Before you will buy any LOMC ask your dealer about service, because when the stylus will be worn you will have to replace it with equal diamond, you'd be better if the manufacturer can replace old cartridge with new one for special price (many manufacturers can do that), they have special program for upgrade, customer support via their official dealers only. 

Art-9 from your wish list is probably best bang for the buck when you're looking for high resolution NEW low output MC with decent stylus profile. You can also look for Dynavector and Shelter cartridges. 

My approach, if I were to be tempted to buy an expensive used cartridge where the seller estimates as much as 500 hours of use, would be to suggest to the seller that the cartridge should be evaluated for stylus wear, etc, by a competent third party professional, like SoundSmith for example.  SS provides such a service for a fee.  You could then work out with the seller who should pay the fee for evaluation.  For example, seller pays if SS says the cartridge needs a rebuild; buyer pays at least a fraction of the cost, if SS (or other) says the cartridge or stylus has at least half of its life remaining (or some other similar fraction of its useful life).  The buyer would probably have to state in advance what amount of wear is "acceptable". There are other details that could be worked out between two reasonable sincere parties.  (I am not a lawyer.)

Your responses have been very helpful. I think that I will avoid high hours used cartridges. Too many unknowns.
I’m now thinking that about $1000 on something like a new Hana ML or AT ART9 is a better way to go. While possibly not as fine as some $2000 cartridges, at least I’ll be using the cartridge in its prime. And these have great reviews.

It will be fair enough to say that you never know the actual usage time in hours if it wasn't counted by the user himself every time he put the needle on the record.

If you will watch certain sellers you will find out that each used cartridge they are selling claimed to be 200 hrs (but in many cases they are second owners and have no idea about actual usage time). Some sellers just love the number 200 and always use it to indicate hrs of use :) 

I bought many vintage cartridges, some NOS, some used, i'm looking for perfect condition and i want to know who is the owner and how many cartridges he's using. If someone like myself have over 30 cartridges then the actual hrs of use will be very low for each one. But if someone using just one cartridge for everyday listening then i will probably never buy it used. 

To insure yourself try to avoid used cartridges with Conical and Elliptical stylus tip (about 300-600 hrs), the life span of those diamond profiles is very short compared to advanced profiles like LineContact, MicroLine, MicroRidge, F.Gyger, VdH, SAS .... those diamonds can be used for 2000-3000 hrs. 

In general i would say 600 for something like Elliptical and 1200 for LineContact, something close to 2000 hrs for MicroRidge and related. 

Just read this article 

I will add short quote from that article, after stated numbers for each profile you'd better inspect it, it does not mean they are worn, but as you can read there are some amount of degradation according to this research from SAS (see below): 

Wear, Tear and Life

So we know that the more extreme line contacts reduce wear.... but what is the difference?

Apparently according to Jico (manufacturer of the highly regarded SAS stylus), the amount of playing time where a stylus will maintain its specified level of distortion at 15kHz is as follows:

• Spherical / Conical     - 150hrs
• Elliptical                       - 250hrs
• Shibata/Line contact - 400hrs
• SAS/MicroRidge         - 500hrs

This is not to say that at 500 hrs a SAS stylus is "worn out" - but at that stage the wear has reached the point where distortion at 15kHz surpasses the level specified by Jico for a new stylus. (Which I believe is 3%).

Some manufacturers have traditionally defined a stylus as being "worn out" when it starts to damage the record... in these terms the figures provided by Jico can at least be doubled, and in some cases quadrupled.

Summary

In pure sonic terms on pristine vinyl a top notch elliptical can do as well as all but the very best Line Contact / Shibata styli, but will ultimately be surpassed by the better MicroLine styli.

However in terms of reduced wear on both stylus and records - the entry point is the Line contact / Shibata category.

In terms of playing back worn vinyl line contact stylus types also have an advantage in that they can contact "virgin" unworn vinyl.

Narrower side radius = improved tracking and reduced high frequency distortion.