Anyone else feel like it’s the Wild Wild West?

@digital  Now you wait just a minute.  You trying to tell me the Earth is NOT FLAT?

Get right out of town!

As for streaming, I was offered it for TV by ATT, but the Internet speed to my house is less than 50, so why offer it?

Ah, well, the more things change...

Cheers!

@juanmanuelfangioii My takeaway from lalitk’ post was that he was simply suggesting that holmz experience with vinyl was in reality no less involved than what he and others have stated about their digital setups

Sure vinyl is simple but good to great vinyl requires a lot of parts too and that isn’t inexpensive. No it ain’t! We all know that list and what the ensuring costs are.(And what’s Beethoven’s fifth with out the ticks and pops?)

Great digital can be had “reasonably.” For $2200 on up you can get a used Lumin T2 or Mytek Brooklyn Bridge Network both with very good inboard DAC’s and the ability to connect directly to an amp with no pre amp needed. Compared to a vinyl rig or upper CD/SCAD this is far far cheaper. To tweak it up, linear power supplies and ethernet filleting can be used (and Bam!) but this is assuming all the rest such as your room, amp and pre or integrated, connects, power cleaned, speakers and the whole schmear is stellar. Digital steaming equaling vinyl costs less too. And yes Virginia, CD’s are digital just delivered on a player.

Vinyl does give one more exercise as you have to get off your duff a lot more.

There are also some all in one solutions like the Naim Uniti boxes that are good.

@ghdprentice Yes Digital into tubes. Right on brother!

It’s all about choices!

 

You Go To Your Church

You go to your church and I’ll go to mine
But let’s walk along together
Our fathers built them side by side
So let’s walk along together

The road is rough and the way is long
But we’ll help each other over
You go to your church and I’ll go to mine
But let’s walk along together

You go to your church and I’ll go to mine
But let’s walk along together
Our Heavenly Father is the same
So let’s walk along together

The Lord will be at your church today
But he’ll be at my church also
You go to your church and I’ll go to mine
But let’s walk along together

by Phillips H. Lord

 

Please don’t talk about me when I’m gone

Please don’t talk about me when I’m gone

Oh honey, though our friendship ceases from now on

And listen, if you can’t say anything real nice

It’s better not to talk at all is my advice

 

We’re parting, you go your way I’ll go mine

It’s best that we do

Here’s a kiss I hope that this brings lots of luck to you

Oh makes no difference how I carry on

Remember, please don’t talk about me when I’m gone

 

We’re parting, you go your way I’ll go mine

It’s best that we do

Here’s a kiss I hope that this brings lots of luck to you

Makes no difference how I carry on

Remember, please don’t talk about me

Please don’t talk about me

Please don’t talk about me when I’m gone

 

by Sidney Clare

 

 

 

That’s sad but expected at those bargain bin prices. That’s why it’s just as important to select a streamer / server that provides a good customer service support with a robust OS.

@lalitk Point taken.  Unfortunately budget largely dictated my choice, and I assumed a company the size of iFi would have at least some form of phone support.  I’ll definitely not make that painful mistake again.  Were I doing it over I probably would’ve bought a used Innuos Mini Mk3 and added their upgraded power supply later, and I would’ve had a server and been able to ditch my CD transport altogether as a bonus.  Live and learn I guess.  My takeaway — some things are just worth paying for. 

@juanmanuelfangioii

You completely missed the point of my post. I have no qualms about how anyone choose to spend their money or their personal preferences / priorities for vinyl or digital.

Peace!

@facten - Thank you!

@soix There is rep from Ifi who regularly contributes on headfi forum. I'd PM him at that forum, goes under moniker, IFIAudio.

 

I'd add vinyl is pretty much on par with streaming for complications or lack thereof. Streaming is different in that far more experimentation taking place at present, less mature technology.

 

Very astute observation by @blisshifi per ubs preferable when dac clock superior,  aes, coax if streamer/server superior clock. I'm expecting to explore this very thing with upcoming server/streamer audtions/purchases. Custom server in midst of being built and an off the shelf server will both have great adaptability in allowing all the above comparisons and additionally I2S, also ability for Roon and/or proprietary music software/player.

When a iFi Zen Stream has far more issues with operation and glitches than a $79 WiiM Mini streamer I think it is incumbent upon iFi to FIX their product or stop selling it to unsuspecting customers and wait until they can come out with a "MK. 2" version that works as it should. 

I keep looking at a Bluesound Node, but hate paying for a DAC I'll never use, even at the $600 price point.  Might look at the new Musical Fidelity MX - Stream as a solution in my budget for a streamer and the Denafrips Ares II as the DAC and call it a day. 

But the Ares II has been on the market now for a good while. Should I wait and see if any other DAC in the $1000 range would be better? 

@facten I use Bluesound, Denafrips Terminator Plus, Hegel 590, Wilson Sasha DAW. I am very happy. I have CD transport for CDs I owned for 30 years. Sound quality almost the same, very satisfying. Point is, no matter what your budget is, there is digital streaming system that can outperform a vinyl or CD listening experience. It is hard to beat top notch DACs with an invention from early 19th century. If you go to Chord Dave, dCS Vivaldi Apex, dCS Rossini, Weiss 501, presentation will beat any analog alternative. 

No, bits are not just bits, however, the OPs premise is flawed.

 

Digital is much easier, more productive, and more affordable to do well these days than vinyl. Digital done right/well (readily available out of the can these days)is the bees knees. Vinyl has some unique benefits, mostly due to the beefed up physical packaging often provided for a cost these days, but is a flawed though enduring century old technology at its core. Also, regardless of how physically delivered, digital mastering of recordings rules.

This is bad news for some who traditionally bank on selling costly esoteric tweaks to home consumers for a living. Not a business I would want to be in these days.

It’s not hard to buy very good digital gear out of the can that will thrill most people including most audio enthusiasts (save perhaps a few hardcore "audiophiles" who can never take a break from trying to forge ahead) for reasonable cost. You just have to make educated and practical purchase decisions, then still get the setup right (as always). No need to over-think or over-complicate things..which is good news for all!

 

Those digital related tweaks mentioned are not slam dunks as indicated.....some may help in some cases but the overall value for most is minimal, although some always seeking to try and do one better may still feel inclined to dabble and strike gold....but only if they really know what they are doing......not if they have to rely on sellers to tell them what they should buy.

 

 

 

 

 

@mapman bees knees! Copacetic daddy-oh. Made me smile.

You are right that many of the tweaks can be expensive and have incremental gains or ersatz ones. Non the less, I’ve found that taken all toughener it’s audible (how can blacker be audible?) for me. And many many many audiophiles love to tinker. I do. This forum is a gateway to getting equipment. N’est-ce pas, mes amis? Every thing counds better in french. The word for digital is numérique. Numérique. Oh lah lah.

Noise isn’t your systems friend be it from power or signal. Nothing wrong with going after it. For me the EtherREGEN was a stunner. Did I need the linear power, clock and fancy cables for it? Do cell phones need signal bars?

@wsrrsw 

 

Hey tinkering can be fun. I’m an engineer so I tinker all the time if there is a problem.   Even if not sometimes,  just for fun or to try something different.  No end to the variety of good sounds out there for one to experience. 

Regarding the “wild Wild West” digital is the exact opposite to me. Very diversified yet with a natural order to things that provides many safe shelters

Now if the topic were modern day gun violence in the US, the wild Wild West would be an appropriate analogy. But that’s something to discuss and take a stand on elsewhere. If hifi were in fact like that, I would probably find a new hobby.

When a iFi Zen Stream has far more issues with operation and glitches than a $79 WiiM Mini streamer I think it is incumbent upon iFi to FIX their product or stop selling it to unsuspecting customers and wait until they can come out with a "MK. 2" version that works as it should.

@moonwatcher I tend to agree, but I will say I think I’m finally on to a fix and if it works I’ll be a pretty happy camper given the sound quality I’m getting for $399. And although I’m forced to use Wi-Fi now due to traveling, when I get home I’m plugging into a Wi-Fi extender via Ethernet cable, and from what I hear there’s no problem with that connection. I’m not sure this problem is unique to iFi, but that’s not much comfort and there’s absolutely no excuse for them not having phone support, which to my mind is inexcusable for a company of that size and I’m sure that’s losing them business. BTW, when I finally get this fixed I’ll do a separate post detailing the solution(s) that will hopefully help other unsuspecting victims of this nightmare.

@drbay You’ve got a really nice system, but I think the Node is a significant bottleneck to better performance. Many people here have experienced very significant improvements moving up the chain from the Node and I think it would be a good idea to at least try a better streamer — you could buy through Amazon and just return it if you don’t find meaningfully better sound. In your case I’d highly recommend looking at the Innuos Zen or Zenith (depending on budget) as they’re not only excellent streamers, but their Sense software is widely reported to sound fantastic. And as a huge bonus they have a built-in server and disc drive so you can load all your CDs into it, ditch the CD player altogether (although you would need to add a DAC), and have access to all your music from your chair — plus your CDs may even sound better than through your CD player as well. Anyway, just my $0.02 FWIW.

Regarding the “wild Wild West” digital is the exact opposite to me. Very diversified yet with a natural order to things that provides many safe shelters

I agree with this. Digital is pretty easy, and comes naturally to me. I find analog on the other hand intimidating. Cartridges, arms, belts, plates, alignments, weight, and all that... very confusing for me. It’s all about the level of comfort we all have with any audio medium, just like with everything in life. We are all different people. Let’s enjoy what we are comfortable with. There is simply no right or wrong with our choices, just preferences.

 

I took the easy route:

Started streaming in 2019 with a Bryston BDA-3.14 streamer/dac which sounded really good to me, I have no vinyl so no comparo to do.

Had some problems with rasberry Pi based streamer internal to the piece. Talked to Bryston and they (at the time) couldn't get the streamer board.

So, we agreed that I will trade-in the 3.14 for a BDA-3 brand new, zero cost to me, I mean zero, no shipping and a return label for the 3.14.  That my friends is customer service.

Then purchased a Nucleus+ w/2TB drive installed.

Hardwired ethernet to Nucleus and then USB to DAC.  The DAC reclocks the digital input anyway and buffers around 10 seconds of the feed.

An Apple Macbook pro running Roon.  Streaming from Qobuz.

It sounds amazing to me, particularly DSDx2.

Could it be better? Sure.  

I'm with @mike_in_nc on this thread, nothing really fancy going on! Audience balanced cables to ARC pre, Audience 10ga power cables on all the front end.

Total all in ==> ~$7k.

A'gon should add a "Streaming" category!

Regards,

barts 

  

Digital is pretty easy, and comes naturally to me.

@thyname I hate you.  No offense. 

@soix yes, please let us know if you find a solution to some of the iFi Zen Stream’s issues. At it’s price point and the better fidelity reviewers have noted over the Bluesound Node used as a streamer only, it would offer a great bang for the buck - if it didn’t have those issues...bad Wi-Fi connectivity, stuttering or glitching on the 1st song every single time in Tidal, etc.

I use Tidal and Wi-Fi so until those issues are ironed out it will be a non-starter for me, hence the reason for looking at the MX-Stream by Musical Fidelity at $1100. Considerably more expensive but it does offer a lot too, and there is some value to be placed on less aggravation. I’m tired of being a Beta tester. Been doing that too long for too many companies and their products and software with little to show for it other than a few extra grey hairs.

As others have noted, this "streaming game" is still in a state of flux. I’m not looking to upgrade every 6 months when something "new and improved" comes along. Instead I want to get something and be happy for 5 to 6 years at least and then if I’m still alive and kicking, maybe upgrade. Thanks.

@soix 

@drbay You’ve got a really nice system, but I think the Node is a significant bottleneck to better performance.  Many people here have experienced very significant improvements moving up the chain and I think it would be a good idea to at least try a better streamer

I am sitting here listening to my Node 2i just enjoying the music and thinking how great it sounds through my old Museatex Meitner DAC modded by John Wright.  

 

 

@facten ​​​​@lalitk Yes I sure did miss the point. So sorry no offense intended. 

You completely missed the point of my post. I have no qualms about how anyone choose to spend their money or their personal preferences / priorities for vinyl or digital.

@juanmanuelfangioii 

None taken! It's all good my friend. 

@drbay -   I'm glad that you are happy with your system and I didn't suggest that one can't have a very good or great sounding system with a DAC & streamer front end. I don't stream but I have a digital front end in both of my systems , a Neodio Origine S2 CD player in my main system, and the 2nd system is fronted by either  a Mojo Audio EVO DAC or Modwright Elyse DAC,  and a Simaudio 260DT CD transport. Like you I enjoy my listening sessions. Where I guess we'll agree to disagree is on the blanket take that a DAC/streamer will always trump either CD or vinyl. Anyway, enjoy the music, that's the end game

Pure opinion @drbay you must have had a real weak analog FE setup if a Node 2i is besting it. 

Just saying..... I have $15K in my digital FE and $8K in my analog FE and prefer it. Though I enjoy them both immensely. 

Bottom line for me is it is about the music not the gear, but I have to have the gear to hear the music...

no matter what your budget is, there is digital streaming system that can outperform a vinyl or CD listening experience.

What is your point @lalitk ?
It is a forum asking a question, and I gave my perspective.

Is there a part you want me to fix up?

@soix @facten Reason I chose Bluesound Node is practicality, from blueOS app you can switch to you TV and streamer seamlessly. This is very important for my family, we do not want to use 3 remotes, 5 buttons to toggle between TV and music. Node has a great HDMI connection which makes life super easy. Also there are some DDS like Denafrips Hermes or Gaia to improve existing digital source output, that is my possible next step.

@soix @facten Reason I chose Bluesound Node is practicality, from blueOS app you can switch to you TV and streamer seamlessly. This is very important for my family, we do not want to use 3 remotes, 5 buttons to toggle between TV and music. Node has a great HDMI connection which makes life super easy. Also there are some DDS like Denafrips Hermes or Gaia to improve existing digital source output, that is my possible next step.

@juanmanuelfangioii I do not own an analog FE, all digital. I only enjoy analog music at HiFi conventions like Axpona. I totally agree with you this is preference thing. I love tube amp sound but I did not buy a tube amp for many reasons. If you own analog FE, absolutely enjoy it. I have CD collection and have CD player connected to my DAC. I try to get most out of what I have.

@drbay I hear you my man and enjoy  your system.

Have a great rest of your day.

@drbay I’m sure I must be missing something, but couldn’t you just route the TV’s audio output into an unused input on the Hegel?  All you’d need to do is just change the Hegel’s input to toggle between music and TV, no?

@soix I wanted all digital sources including TV output to go through my external DAC. TV digital out comes from HDMI EARC to Node to DAC. I watch a lot of concerts from YouTube, I wanted to improve sound quality of TV output as well. 

In it all over the years, I have just learned to trust my own ears and go with that. Too much mileage that varies between each persons thoughts and feelings on any one topic, let alone the gazillions that we read about on all the forums these days. I'd rather just sit back and enjoy my music!

The Wild West can be a place of innovation too… there are stories here of pursuit of different options, like trying the Lampizator Baltic by one poster here that was a success for them. I never enjoyed my Amber III much.

On the other hand, when I plugged my Pioneer N70ae streamer into my ARC Ref CD9 to use the quad DAC’s inside it I was shocked. Best upgrade ever. Just using coaxial over rca.

That pioneer spirit is a valuable part of the Wild West and can lead to leaps ahead in enjoyment of your system. Sometimes without spending a penny.

And tweaks? They’re a choice too. I tried Iso Acoustic footers, but my gear is already dampened internally so they made no difference and were promptly sold. Yi ha!

Wild West. I don't think those words mean what you think they do. 

I'm part of the all the above crowd.  Ultimately I think what's best is determined by the media itself.  I have many vinyl recordings that easily beat the digital version and vice versa.  Currently use terminator plus with Gaia on Mac mini.  The DDC does the computer cleaning job thus wondering why I would need a standalone streamer?

The DDC does the computer cleaning job thus wondering why I would need a standalone streamer?

But... does it? How do you know for sure? Without trying a low noise / low powered, audio optimized / specified stand alone streamer? I am not saying it doesn't, but you get the point.

 

Another valid reason for ditching a general purpose laptop for streaming (yes, many people do this) is freeing up that laptop from having it attached to audio system, and freely use for other tasks laptops are designed to do. Ultimately, you do you, it's a matter of how far you are willing to experiment, try new stuff for yourself. Or not

 

 

I have done a lot of comparisons via audioclubs and my own pocket ,around 

$12 k on digital is close to my limit with cables 

if that does not get it done then there is something wrong elsewhere 

imo the Denafrips Terminator+ is the best dac I have ever heard up to $12k 

in my system , it’s very good on every level .

my brothers $35k DCS Rosinni is much better still maybe 5-7% better ,

once you get to a higher level then it cost $$ for a few % here or there.

Oh my god!   Such useless conversation!    You would think we are curing cancer here?

Hi @Soix and everyone.  Interesting as always discussion with folks on each end and in the middle.  I kind of come at the vinyl / digital issue from the fundamental end.  I want to listen and hear the best reasonably (individual meaning of course) sound possible.  I had mid-fi stuff with surround / stereo combinations that seemed great.  About five years ago I needed to start over with new systems.  Vinyl is awesome, but digital allows playlists and easy opportunities to explore, find and enjoy new music.  My 'catalogue' of what I listen to has expanded immensely  since going 100% digital.  I think many are just 'stuck' in their traditional (vinyl) ways and that is fine.  But I now have my digital sounding amazing, and it would take big bucks to do the same with vinyl. LP's do create a bit of chill in the decision making process, and keep one from jumping around from track to track.  And, like some smoking a cigarette after a meal or sex, the 'dropping of the needle' is a part of the experience.

If we compare entry level rigs, there is so much improvement to be had.  I think digital affords the opportunities to start very cheap, with a computer and a cable.  I did.  And I loved the access to all the music!  I even streamed Apple Music via Airplay.  Not great sound quality, but I got the taste.  I heard an Esoteric DAC at a dealer and was so smitten with the sound.

Digital books are an interesting analogy.  Many prefer the 'book in my hand' over an ipad.  'Just seems better', 'I like the feel of the book in my hand', 'they look nice on my shelf', 'I like the smell of a new book'.  I was there.  But today, having several books loaded on my ipad when I travel, seeing the next book in the series right away, having recommendations of things I might like, or searching for something of interest.... Yep, a change from a nice bound book, but so many advantages. (ok sometimes hard to see in the bright sun!).

So I evolved my digital front end just as I evolved my entire analogue system.  Everything matters, and I had to hear that.  Of course I thought components important, and they are the most important,  But everything matters. Many supporters of LP's over digital have amazing systems. And then others want to compare a computer or a Node and get shot down. That is not fair.  Amazing digital takes effort, just as amazing vinyl.  

Today I have taken many of the steps to optimize my digital front end and my system.  My Nucleus and better switch are in a remote office on a separate AC line.  I use an iFi power station, and a dedicated linear power supply for both the Nucleus and my switch.  I have a raid hard drive with lots of high res music and all my old ripped CD's plugged into my Nucleus. I use all Supra Cat 8 cables for the shorter connections.  I added an iFi power supply to my router.

All this travels over a regular network cable to my listening room.  I have added an Ether Regen (helped) and then a Network Acoustics Muon filter which helps even more.  This fed my Mola Mola Tambaqui with internal streamer (about my fourth DAC) and then into my all Audionet Pre and amps.  Now I added an Aurillac Aries G2.1 streamer and USB into the DAC.  This formerly seemed unnecessary, as the Tambaqui also streams.  But it made a huge difference, and I have now modded the Auralic Aries with a custom Sean Jacobs power supply, and this made the most improvement of anything.  So today I am there, just as i was there about 15 times in the past. 

To someone new to streaming, this seems crazy I know!  But it is no different with vinyl.  Look at the nice rigs with custom platforms, upgraded arms, cartridges, tonearm cables, phono preamps, cables, record cleaners, humidity control and of course set up!  It all matters if you want to and can hear the subtle improvements.

Bits are bits is just as arcane as vinyl is vinyl.

So start with a node or a mac mini and have fun.  If streaming / digital is for you, then upgrades afford vast improvement in quality.  Just like vinyl.  Everything matters!

 

I am hedging my bets because this is a hobby and I like to have fun with my gear. I have just acquired a Denon DP-60L TT for my albums. I have an Oppo 205 for shiny discs (and home theater) and I have a Cary DMS-700 DAC/Streamer all hooked up to my Luxman CL-38uC Tube Pre-amp and Luxman MQ-88uC Tube amplifier. It all comes together in my DeVore O/93 speakers. People can debate what delivery method is best. I can participate either way. Good times!

Yippee ki-yay!!!

+1, @fastfreight ….great post! 

+2 @fastfreight Great perspective on how/why to get started with streaming and highlighting how you can start cheap/simple and upgrade piece by piece and get to your nirvana at your own pace and also in emphasizing that EVERYTHING matters.

I wanted to try streaming but not spend a lot of money before deciding to really invest in the top tier gear.  I had purchased a Marantz SA-10 SACD player with a unique DAC that only accepts either coax or optical from a streamer, but not USB.  So I thought why buy a DAC when I only need a streamer.  So I backed into the ifi Zen Stream because it was the cheapest streamer-only with a coax output that had good reviews, and I even snagged one for less on ebay from a dealer. I also invested a little in a decent Canare coax cable. I, too, had to send a service request when I couldn't get it hooked up, which was never answered, but it turned out it was my ineptness anyway.  I got it up and running wirelessly but not wired, which turned out to be incorrect ethernet terminations in my home.  I guess my prior experience streaming was from my Mac to KEF X300A powered speakers with their own dac that sounded pretty good used as nearfield desktop speakers.  After playing the ifi through my Marantz and Luxman integrated Class A and Yamaha NS-5000's and comparing it to my cd's, it sounded pretty good with the free stuff from Spotify.  After visiting forums, I invested in ifi's better Elite power supply and that made a big difference I could hear in my "compact reference system", making me realize it is one of the reasons ifi can make such an inexpensive streamer is that the included power supply is noisy.  The better power supply I purchased was basically the same price as I paid for the Zen Stream, but I'm glad I could upgrade it and it wasn't built into the streamer. 

Now I'm about to compare wireless to wired and experiment with a streaming service and continue comparing to my cd's.  I guess the whole point is streaming is experimentation.  If you've been in this hobby for 55 years since you were a teen, the tech today is amazing regardless of what the format or equipment is.  And the stuff that sounds best is always going to be the artists and songs that are your favorites and when recorded technically in a way that you immediately can hear as superior.

@jderson

 

I hear you. Some People like to over complicate things. It’s a hard habit to break. Streaming is not so hard. Only when one becomes obsessed with always trying to find something better.

So I guess in some cases it is made out to be like the wild Wild West. Conquering new frontiers is a thing. Even Star Trek was conceived as Wagon Train to the stars. Shatner is famous for his overacting. It’s all good . To each their own

 

The wild Wild West was truly wild. There was a lot to conquer and master by frontier folk of various kinds.  People should admire that spirit even if at times it was to the detriment of others I suppose.  Talking about native Americans and wildlife  there.

Nowadays, in these parts, we have a bunch of OCD types always looking for trouble. People call them “Karens” now, which is not at all fair to people actually named Karen. I know some very nice real Karen’s. I suppose the wild Wild West had them too. Allegedly…..

CD is better than streaming in my rig.    Streaming makes choosing music simple.  Laziness has me streaming most of the time.  Took me a few years to understand ,try and implement.  My kit: Router , cat 6 unshielded , Uptone etherregen switch, cat 6 unshielded, Aurender, AUDIOQUEST Diamond USB cable , AUDIOQUEST Jitterbug, MSB DAC .  Sounds decent.  CD sounds more holographic , natural and non fatiguing.  My vinyl rig gathering dust. 

@soix

this thread is turning into a gem, posts such as those by @fastfreight and other terrific contributions, very enjoyable reading

i would echo some key thoughts expressed as they really resonate with me, as i started streaming and vigorously climbed the learning curve since early 2020 when we were all locked in by the pandemic

-- streaming is really wonderful, sooo worth doing, for the wide, wide musical world it affords us in the comfort of our homes -- new artists, new music, new forms -- for those of us who spent countless days at the racks at tower records, gnashing our teeth about whether to buy those two additional records or cds we could not hear, not knowing if we would be wasting our money - streaming is a god send

-- interestingly, and separate from all of us going head over heels to get streamed music to sound as good as possible on our systems, it seems to me streaming is really the avenue of music lovers, leaving aside audiophilia and its ocd-ness, so to speak -- as much as i love my records and analog front end, i just laugh when those ’records or bust’ folks put down streaming, they sooo miss the point, man, it makes it really about the music, discovering great music, and not just the media...

-- as others have said, i also feel the wild-west moniker is rather overplaying it... it isn’t THAT hard to figure out... yes there is a good amount of change occurring, some of the tech is computer/network related... but i think the right attitude is to embrace it, take the time and effort to really understand it best we can, and then apply personal efforts and funds judiciously to make the most it -- yes it all matters, truly, just like with vinyl ... sooo many elements to consider, so many variables to manage, but for those who enjoy the challenge, the process of learning, improving, implementing is a reward in and of itself, and for those who don’t want the hassle, there are ample, be it expensive, one unit boxes that have much if not most of it figured out and well packaged...  you just pay your $$ for the convenience and avoidance of the hassle :)

 

 

@alpha100 — I’d recommend taking the Jitterbug out and see what you find.  When I first built my HeadFi rig I was using a Dragonfly Red and was happy, so I thought adding a Jitterbug would be a no-brainer improvement — wrong!  It ruined the transparency and imaging/soundstage and I returned it.  I later spoke with an industry insider/manufacturer who has contacts at Audioquest and he confirmed the Jitterbug has performance issues and they’re working on a redesign.  Just a thought FWIW. 

@jjss49 Yup. I feel like I’ve learned more about improving the audio experience in the past couple years due to navigating the ins and outs of streaming than I had in a decade or more before. There’s nothing like striving to improve the streaming experience to teach you how much everything matters, and there’s nothing that’s done more to elevate my level of enjoying music as an audiophile than streaming because, in the end, it’s all about the music and streaming puts the whole world of music at your fingertips. And the exciting thing about streaming is that almost every upgrade you make in any part of the chain, no matter how small, almost always makes a significant improvement rather than the incremental — yet still meaningful — gains we usually experience once our systems reach a certain level. I think that’s what I meant when I termed this thread the Wild Wild West, because there are so many components to explore and almost every one can make a huge difference. It’s both so exciting yet also quite intimidating. Of course this comes with its frustrations and a pretty steep learning curve if you really care about achieving better sound, but man in the end it’s so worth it (anything worth doing, right?). IMHO, between the really excellent and affordable equipment available today along with the rapid advance of technology at the cutting edge and the ability to experience any music under the sun — much of it in hi res — at $15 or less per month makes this the best and most thrilling time ever to be an audiophile by far. One can only wonder and be excited in the anticipation of where we’ll be 10 years from now. I can’t even imagine.

“One can only wonder and be excited in the anticipation of where we’ll be 10 years from now. I can’t even imagine.”

@soix

You can count on the ageless debate…Analog (Vinyl) vs Digital (CD/Streaming) 😂

You can count on the ageless debate…Analog (Vinyl) vs Digital (CD/Streaming)
 

@lalitk No doubt.  But analog is a mature technology relegated to relatively incremental improvements in products/technology while digital — and streaming in particular — is in its infancy by comparison and improving seemingly exponentially in both products and technology, hence my fascination and excitement where digital will be in 10 years.  Even today there are some members here with very nice analog and streaming setups who say the sound they’re getting from streaming now matches or even beats that from their analog gear, so if streaming is getting this close now…

@soix 

I agree for the most part. It’s only going to get better. I have been streaming for over 10 years and for me, my streaming is equally enjoyable as my analog and CD/SACD setups. I am now more focused on optimizing or extracting the most out of my system.