Anyone else feel like it’s the Wild Wild West?

Room with Qo buzz with MQ player takes it far better then Any platform. Roon  has it native built into to it just click enable ,even innous can  use this it , is is heavy  on processor requirements but  well worth the double and a bit of learning curve. 

@audioman58 Roon is garbage. Easy to use but sounds like shite. Innuos sense is the route to go if you are on the ecosystem. 

The dac in the blue sound is not even decent just use the streamer with a decent LPS, whoever said Roon does not sound good is wrong. It is also the finest platform as a library with the excellent HQ player already built into the platform .

Good thread and many good comments. Has it really been 40 years since they were debating DAT vs. CD as the "New" music selling medium?

I've owned a Node and a Lumin... Lumin by far.

I've owned a Denafrips Iris DDC... Prior to the Lumin worth every penny, not necessary with the Lumin.

I have auditioned (30 days) Tidal, Qobuz, Amazon HD both stand alone and within Audirvana, JRiver and Roon... My choice Roon/Qobuz.

And I cannot agree more streaming's #1 value... the ability to expand your musical library exponentially.  

holmz...

Finding fault is fine.  Seems now, you are looking to find fault.  You do you, I'll do me.  Pin

It is probably a more effective strategy to just buy someone who is hungry a meal.

@fastfreight 

+1

Hi @Soix, I think I tried to say that. When i demo'd cables from the Cable Company I did not know much at all, and calling them, talking to them about my system, and then trying  different companies was helpful.  I returned them and tried others, and then purchased several of their used cables, which are about 30% off retail.  Once I had a knowledge base, I did find what I wanted here on AG or USA at about 50%,  The Cable Company is a viable way to try different companies without the hassle of having to resell those you don't want. For me, it all started with power cables. You can limit demo's to those cables which are in stock and used.  Note the distinction between 'The Cable Company' and 'The Used Cable Company'.  Happy Labour Day!

I agree @pinthrift that the Cable Company is good way to demo different cables.

Sorry, but I disagree unless you can’t find the cable you’re looking for on the used market. The discount on used cables is 50% or more, they cost very little to ship, and if they don’t work out just sell them for little/no loss and you can try as many as you like this way. In this regard paying The Cable Company to try different cables and then pay full price for cables is kinda nuts, again unless you’re looking for something that’s just not available on the used market. Then there are several excellent cable companies that sell direct and offer excellent quality and value and generous trial periods to see if they work in your system. Just my $0.02 FWIW.

I agree @pinthrift that the Cable Company is good way to demo different cables.  But it is not free or even cheap, and of course the incentive is to pick one of the ?few that you demo and use your rental credits.  I did this and ended up picking Audience Au24SX and loved it.  Then my dealer, while delivering my YG speakers pulled out a pair of KS Elation speaker cables.  Time to start all over.  It was educational.  Sometimes feeling bright and tingly was just an absence of great midrange and upper end bass.; Meat on the bone.  Anyway, lots of great cables, I like all good copper, no silver for me.  I think especially true for resolving SS gear (copper).  I would take any dealer up on demoing their cables.. I am scared to try the Nordost good stuff...I might like it!

Oh...   Summer Against Hunger Summary - Newsletters (thecableco.com)

my eyeballs hurt

holmz...a fair retort, indeed.  We married late, Mary and I, and a close friend gave us a book depicting photos of people around the world placing the entire contents of their possessions in front of their dwellings, as a wedding present.  We indeed are abundantly wealthy within that context.  Further, as members of the Baha'i Faith with tenets of justice, fairness and equity, we consider ourselves global citizens.  

ON that note, The Cable Company just completed their 27th year of contributing to Summer Against Hunger, another reason for my personal choice.  My deeper point was the abundance of obvious added stressors today for kids, families, friends and our leaders.  The importance of music and the arts in helping us maintain our mental balance, for ourselves and for others. 

I work Customer Service for a longtime outdoor outfitter and my wife is a language arts teacher.  My audio budget is extremely limited and away from our family needs, which should speak to just how important music is to me.  The top tier of TIDAL streaming with a military discount is $12.65 monthly, a huge savings, considering how we accessed music over the years.  The enormous value streaming poses for those on a limited budget is what prompted me to respond in depth to the topic. 

Digital cable swaps are controversial, so I thought I'd share some of that experience towards the topic as well.  Elaborating was simply sharing in our hobby experiences, not sounding boastful, I hope.  

Having an "Audio Tech" assist might sound a bit rich, however, Mike has become a personal friend and we barter goods for services.  I bring it up in here because of the low-cost of streaming from a computer for those on a limited budget.  Many of our Peers are older, and like me, may not be tech savvy.  Seek help maybe from your computer company or local college students.  Almost all the software required is free...add a good DAC and your streaming great sound.

Thanks for the feedback, holmz              More Peace, Pin

I'm a bit (intended) of a romantic around our hobby, a pastime made increasingly vital by these challenging times.

If one is not living in the Ukraine, Afghanistan, parts of Africa, etc, or hungry and homeless, then the “challenging times” of what audiophile cable to select seems to be a bit “first world“?

soix..."So have at it — let’s empower this community in this noble task and help everyone realize the amazing potential of this magic gift to audiophiles.  What say you?"

This is generous lead-in that so typifies, in my humble opinion, my longtime experiences with our audiophile community in general.  Risking some duplication (which might simply reinforce experiences,) I'm electing NOT to read other commentary before posting my 2 cents. 

"Perfection is God's" to quote my 'music-is-for-dancing' wife Mary.  However, streaming music comes pretty damn close.  Living in the wilds of Maine, I'm a reader of the journals in our hobby.  A primary use for them is finding music both gleaned from gear reviews and the music reviews.  Finding this music on the streaming services runs well above 50% in my experience, including the new releases.  I elect to stream music and play-back my ripped lossless files at a bitrate setting of 24/48.  This is set-up by my computer Tech in San Jose who travels deep and wide in the world of digital audio...and vinyl. 

My PC source is delivered to a Focusrite Clarett Pro4 DAC via USB, passed through an Intona galvanized grounding device which aids in creating a darker noise background, gently improving the overall sound.  I'm using a Shunyata Venom USB 2 meter cable to the Intona. 

Last week, I received a built-to-order 1/2 meter Cardas A to C USB cable, replacing a well-built generic cable...something I'd planned to upgrade for a few months now.  For a time, I assisted in testing ANALOG cables with a local friend in the late 90's who's builds went up against the well know high end brands.  Overall, I had very little expectation for the shortie USB upgrade.  I was dead wrong.  The improvement is such that I've ordered a Cardas Clear High Speed Serial Bus replacement for the Shunyata.  Also, after doing a lot of research, I've decided to replace my excellent copper Verastarr Grand Illusion Series ribbon speaker cables with Cardas, creating a loom.  I'm a bit nervous around the experiment, but the speaker cables are used, so I'll have choices without much financial risk.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

soix...as to "naysayers who say bits are just bits."  I'm a longtime active member in the Audio Asylum chatroom and have music loving computer Tech friends who do eyerolls around upgrading digital cables to improve audio quality.  I use The Cable Company to feel secure in my purchases for cables and Furutech products.  In mentioning my friend's opinions to Jason, the Cable Co's Tech, he responded with, "Next time you find yourself speaking to your "Tech" buddies, please remind them that digital isn't actually 1s and 0s.
Those digits are merely symbols used to represent pulses of voltage (on and off) traveling along a metal medium. Shockingly, that description describes an analog cable, too; digital cables simply operate at vastly higher frequencies. Technically, the shape of the wave is different too, but that's not the point."  Not having a science background, I found the response interesting, given my long experience.

I'm a bit (intended) of a romantic around our hobby, a pastime made increasingly vital by these challenging times.  We all a drawn by our personal flavor of sound, hence so many products.  My flavor is a wide stage and depth of field, well defined, holographic, moving imagery...all having fleshed out, rounded solidity as in life.  Abundance of detail and believable timbre plus the"aaahhhh" of musicality, first and foremost. 

The past 25 years have been spent removing resonances created by gear, room and wire in my dedicated studio.  My hobby is ever fluid, a process of betterment and evolution, taking greatness forward.  Always.  

Hoping all you and yours have a great holiday weekend!  More Peace...Pin

@soix 

I agree for the most part. It’s only going to get better. I have been streaming for over 10 years and for me, my streaming is equally enjoyable as my analog and CD/SACD setups. I am now more focused on optimizing or extracting the most out of my system. 

You can count on the ageless debate…Analog (Vinyl) vs Digital (CD/Streaming)
 

@lalitk No doubt.  But analog is a mature technology relegated to relatively incremental improvements in products/technology while digital — and streaming in particular — is in its infancy by comparison and improving seemingly exponentially in both products and technology, hence my fascination and excitement where digital will be in 10 years.  Even today there are some members here with very nice analog and streaming setups who say the sound they’re getting from streaming now matches or even beats that from their analog gear, so if streaming is getting this close now…

“One can only wonder and be excited in the anticipation of where we’ll be 10 years from now. I can’t even imagine.”

@soix

You can count on the ageless debate…Analog (Vinyl) vs Digital (CD/Streaming) 😂

@jjss49 Yup. I feel like I’ve learned more about improving the audio experience in the past couple years due to navigating the ins and outs of streaming than I had in a decade or more before. There’s nothing like striving to improve the streaming experience to teach you how much everything matters, and there’s nothing that’s done more to elevate my level of enjoying music as an audiophile than streaming because, in the end, it’s all about the music and streaming puts the whole world of music at your fingertips. And the exciting thing about streaming is that almost every upgrade you make in any part of the chain, no matter how small, almost always makes a significant improvement rather than the incremental — yet still meaningful — gains we usually experience once our systems reach a certain level. I think that’s what I meant when I termed this thread the Wild Wild West, because there are so many components to explore and almost every one can make a huge difference. It’s both so exciting yet also quite intimidating. Of course this comes with its frustrations and a pretty steep learning curve if you really care about achieving better sound, but man in the end it’s so worth it (anything worth doing, right?). IMHO, between the really excellent and affordable equipment available today along with the rapid advance of technology at the cutting edge and the ability to experience any music under the sun — much of it in hi res — at $15 or less per month makes this the best and most thrilling time ever to be an audiophile by far. One can only wonder and be excited in the anticipation of where we’ll be 10 years from now. I can’t even imagine.

@alpha100 — I’d recommend taking the Jitterbug out and see what you find.  When I first built my HeadFi rig I was using a Dragonfly Red and was happy, so I thought adding a Jitterbug would be a no-brainer improvement — wrong!  It ruined the transparency and imaging/soundstage and I returned it.  I later spoke with an industry insider/manufacturer who has contacts at Audioquest and he confirmed the Jitterbug has performance issues and they’re working on a redesign.  Just a thought FWIW. 

@soix

this thread is turning into a gem, posts such as those by @fastfreight and other terrific contributions, very enjoyable reading

i would echo some key thoughts expressed as they really resonate with me, as i started streaming and vigorously climbed the learning curve since early 2020 when we were all locked in by the pandemic

-- streaming is really wonderful, sooo worth doing, for the wide, wide musical world it affords us in the comfort of our homes -- new artists, new music, new forms -- for those of us who spent countless days at the racks at tower records, gnashing our teeth about whether to buy those two additional records or cds we could not hear, not knowing if we would be wasting our money - streaming is a god send

-- interestingly, and separate from all of us going head over heels to get streamed music to sound as good as possible on our systems, it seems to me streaming is really the avenue of music lovers, leaving aside audiophilia and its ocd-ness, so to speak -- as much as i love my records and analog front end, i just laugh when those ’records or bust’ folks put down streaming, they sooo miss the point, man, it makes it really about the music, discovering great music, and not just the media...

-- as others have said, i also feel the wild-west moniker is rather overplaying it... it isn’t THAT hard to figure out... yes there is a good amount of change occurring, some of the tech is computer/network related... but i think the right attitude is to embrace it, take the time and effort to really understand it best we can, and then apply personal efforts and funds judiciously to make the most it -- yes it all matters, truly, just like with vinyl ... sooo many elements to consider, so many variables to manage, but for those who enjoy the challenge, the process of learning, improving, implementing is a reward in and of itself, and for those who don’t want the hassle, there are ample, be it expensive, one unit boxes that have much if not most of it figured out and well packaged...  you just pay your $$ for the convenience and avoidance of the hassle :)

CD is better than streaming in my rig.    Streaming makes choosing music simple.  Laziness has me streaming most of the time.  Took me a few years to understand ,try and implement.  My kit: Router , cat 6 unshielded , Uptone etherregen switch, cat 6 unshielded, Aurender, AUDIOQUEST Diamond USB cable , AUDIOQUEST Jitterbug, MSB DAC .  Sounds decent.  CD sounds more holographic , natural and non fatiguing.  My vinyl rig gathering dust. 

The wild Wild West was truly wild. There was a lot to conquer and master by frontier folk of various kinds.  People should admire that spirit even if at times it was to the detriment of others I suppose.  Talking about native Americans and wildlife  there.

Nowadays, in these parts, we have a bunch of OCD types always looking for trouble. People call them “Karens” now, which is not at all fair to people actually named Karen. I know some very nice real Karen’s. I suppose the wild Wild West had them too. Allegedly…..

@jderson

I hear you. Some People like to over complicate things. It’s a hard habit to break. Streaming is not so hard. Only when one becomes obsessed with always trying to find something better.

So I guess in some cases it is made out to be like the wild Wild West. Conquering new frontiers is a thing. Even Star Trek was conceived as Wagon Train to the stars. Shatner is famous for his overacting. It’s all good . To each their own

I wanted to try streaming but not spend a lot of money before deciding to really invest in the top tier gear.  I had purchased a Marantz SA-10 SACD player with a unique DAC that only accepts either coax or optical from a streamer, but not USB.  So I thought why buy a DAC when I only need a streamer.  So I backed into the ifi Zen Stream because it was the cheapest streamer-only with a coax output that had good reviews, and I even snagged one for less on ebay from a dealer. I also invested a little in a decent Canare coax cable. I, too, had to send a service request when I couldn't get it hooked up, which was never answered, but it turned out it was my ineptness anyway.  I got it up and running wirelessly but not wired, which turned out to be incorrect ethernet terminations in my home.  I guess my prior experience streaming was from my Mac to KEF X300A powered speakers with their own dac that sounded pretty good used as nearfield desktop speakers.  After playing the ifi through my Marantz and Luxman integrated Class A and Yamaha NS-5000's and comparing it to my cd's, it sounded pretty good with the free stuff from Spotify.  After visiting forums, I invested in ifi's better Elite power supply and that made a big difference I could hear in my "compact reference system", making me realize it is one of the reasons ifi can make such an inexpensive streamer is that the included power supply is noisy.  The better power supply I purchased was basically the same price as I paid for the Zen Stream, but I'm glad I could upgrade it and it wasn't built into the streamer. 

Now I'm about to compare wireless to wired and experiment with a streaming service and continue comparing to my cd's.  I guess the whole point is streaming is experimentation.  If you've been in this hobby for 55 years since you were a teen, the tech today is amazing regardless of what the format or equipment is.  And the stuff that sounds best is always going to be the artists and songs that are your favorites and when recorded technically in a way that you immediately can hear as superior.

+2 @fastfreight Great perspective on how/why to get started with streaming and highlighting how you can start cheap/simple and upgrade piece by piece and get to your nirvana at your own pace and also in emphasizing that EVERYTHING matters.

+1, @fastfreight ….great post! 

Yippee ki-yay!!!

I am hedging my bets because this is a hobby and I like to have fun with my gear. I have just acquired a Denon DP-60L TT for my albums. I have an Oppo 205 for shiny discs (and home theater) and I have a Cary DMS-700 DAC/Streamer all hooked up to my Luxman CL-38uC Tube Pre-amp and Luxman MQ-88uC Tube amplifier. It all comes together in my DeVore O/93 speakers. People can debate what delivery method is best. I can participate either way. Good times!

Hi @Soix and everyone.  Interesting as always discussion with folks on each end and in the middle.  I kind of come at the vinyl / digital issue from the fundamental end.  I want to listen and hear the best reasonably (individual meaning of course) sound possible.  I had mid-fi stuff with surround / stereo combinations that seemed great.  About five years ago I needed to start over with new systems.  Vinyl is awesome, but digital allows playlists and easy opportunities to explore, find and enjoy new music.  My 'catalogue' of what I listen to has expanded immensely  since going 100% digital.  I think many are just 'stuck' in their traditional (vinyl) ways and that is fine.  But I now have my digital sounding amazing, and it would take big bucks to do the same with vinyl. LP's do create a bit of chill in the decision making process, and keep one from jumping around from track to track.  And, like some smoking a cigarette after a meal or sex, the 'dropping of the needle' is a part of the experience.

If we compare entry level rigs, there is so much improvement to be had.  I think digital affords the opportunities to start very cheap, with a computer and a cable.  I did.  And I loved the access to all the music!  I even streamed Apple Music via Airplay.  Not great sound quality, but I got the taste.  I heard an Esoteric DAC at a dealer and was so smitten with the sound.

Digital books are an interesting analogy.  Many prefer the 'book in my hand' over an ipad.  'Just seems better', 'I like the feel of the book in my hand', 'they look nice on my shelf', 'I like the smell of a new book'.  I was there.  But today, having several books loaded on my ipad when I travel, seeing the next book in the series right away, having recommendations of things I might like, or searching for something of interest.... Yep, a change from a nice bound book, but so many advantages. (ok sometimes hard to see in the bright sun!).

So I evolved my digital front end just as I evolved my entire analogue system.  Everything matters, and I had to hear that.  Of course I thought components important, and they are the most important,  But everything matters. Many supporters of LP's over digital have amazing systems. And then others want to compare a computer or a Node and get shot down. That is not fair.  Amazing digital takes effort, just as amazing vinyl.  

Today I have taken many of the steps to optimize my digital front end and my system.  My Nucleus and better switch are in a remote office on a separate AC line.  I use an iFi power station, and a dedicated linear power supply for both the Nucleus and my switch.  I have a raid hard drive with lots of high res music and all my old ripped CD's plugged into my Nucleus. I use all Supra Cat 8 cables for the shorter connections.  I added an iFi power supply to my router.

All this travels over a regular network cable to my listening room.  I have added an Ether Regen (helped) and then a Network Acoustics Muon filter which helps even more.  This fed my Mola Mola Tambaqui with internal streamer (about my fourth DAC) and then into my all Audionet Pre and amps.  Now I added an Aurillac Aries G2.1 streamer and USB into the DAC.  This formerly seemed unnecessary, as the Tambaqui also streams.  But it made a huge difference, and I have now modded the Auralic Aries with a custom Sean Jacobs power supply, and this made the most improvement of anything.  So today I am there, just as i was there about 15 times in the past. 

To someone new to streaming, this seems crazy I know!  But it is no different with vinyl.  Look at the nice rigs with custom platforms, upgraded arms, cartridges, tonearm cables, phono preamps, cables, record cleaners, humidity control and of course set up!  It all matters if you want to and can hear the subtle improvements.

Bits are bits is just as arcane as vinyl is vinyl.

So start with a node or a mac mini and have fun.  If streaming / digital is for you, then upgrades afford vast improvement in quality.  Just like vinyl.  Everything matters!

Oh my god!   Such useless conversation!    You would think we are curing cancer here?

I have done a lot of comparisons via audioclubs and my own pocket ,around 

$12 k on digital is close to my limit with cables 

if that does not get it done then there is something wrong elsewhere 

imo the Denafrips Terminator+ is the best dac I have ever heard up to $12k 

in my system , it’s very good on every level .

my brothers $35k DCS Rosinni is much better still maybe 5-7% better ,

once you get to a higher level then it cost $$ for a few % here or there.

The DDC does the computer cleaning job thus wondering why I would need a standalone streamer?

But... does it? How do you know for sure? Without trying a low noise / low powered, audio optimized / specified stand alone streamer? I am not saying it doesn't, but you get the point.

Another valid reason for ditching a general purpose laptop for streaming (yes, many people do this) is freeing up that laptop from having it attached to audio system, and freely use for other tasks laptops are designed to do. Ultimately, you do you, it's a matter of how far you are willing to experiment, try new stuff for yourself. Or not

I'm part of the all the above crowd.  Ultimately I think what's best is determined by the media itself.  I have many vinyl recordings that easily beat the digital version and vice versa.  Currently use terminator plus with Gaia on Mac mini.  The DDC does the computer cleaning job thus wondering why I would need a standalone streamer?

Wild West. I don't think those words mean what you think they do. 

The Wild West can be a place of innovation too… there are stories here of pursuit of different options, like trying the Lampizator Baltic by one poster here that was a success for them. I never enjoyed my Amber III much.

On the other hand, when I plugged my Pioneer N70ae streamer into my ARC Ref CD9 to use the quad DAC’s inside it I was shocked. Best upgrade ever. Just using coaxial over rca.

That pioneer spirit is a valuable part of the Wild West and can lead to leaps ahead in enjoyment of your system. Sometimes without spending a penny.

And tweaks? They’re a choice too. I tried Iso Acoustic footers, but my gear is already dampened internally so they made no difference and were promptly sold. Yi ha!

In it all over the years, I have just learned to trust my own ears and go with that. Too much mileage that varies between each persons thoughts and feelings on any one topic, let alone the gazillions that we read about on all the forums these days. I'd rather just sit back and enjoy my music!

@soix I wanted all digital sources including TV output to go through my external DAC. TV digital out comes from HDMI EARC to Node to DAC. I watch a lot of concerts from YouTube, I wanted to improve sound quality of TV output as well. 

@drbay I’m sure I must be missing something, but couldn’t you just route the TV’s audio output into an unused input on the Hegel?  All you’d need to do is just change the Hegel’s input to toggle between music and TV, no?

@drbay I hear you my man and enjoy  your system.

Have a great rest of your day.

@soix @facten Reason I chose Bluesound Node is practicality, from blueOS app you can switch to you TV and streamer seamlessly. This is very important for my family, we do not want to use 3 remotes, 5 buttons to toggle between TV and music. Node has a great HDMI connection which makes life super easy. Also there are some DDS like Denafrips Hermes or Gaia to improve existing digital source output, that is my possible next step.

@juanmanuelfangioii I do not own an analog FE, all digital. I only enjoy analog music at HiFi conventions like Axpona. I totally agree with you this is preference thing. I love tube amp sound but I did not buy a tube amp for many reasons. If you own analog FE, absolutely enjoy it. I have CD collection and have CD player connected to my DAC. I try to get most out of what I have.

@soix @facten Reason I chose Bluesound Node is practicality, from blueOS app you can switch to you TV and streamer seamlessly. This is very important for my family, we do not want to use 3 remotes, 5 buttons to toggle between TV and music. Node has a great HDMI connection which makes life super easy. Also there are some DDS like Denafrips Hermes or Gaia to improve existing digital source output, that is my possible next step.

What is your point @lalitk ?
It is a forum asking a question, and I gave my perspective.

Is there a part you want me to fix up?

Pure opinion @drbay you must have had a real weak analog FE setup if a Node 2i is besting it. 

Just saying..... I have $15K in my digital FE and $8K in my analog FE and prefer it. Though I enjoy them both immensely. 

Bottom line for me is it is about the music not the gear, but I have to have the gear to hear the music...

no matter what your budget is, there is digital streaming system that can outperform a vinyl or CD listening experience.

@drbay -   I'm glad that you are happy with your system and I didn't suggest that one can't have a very good or great sounding system with a DAC & streamer front end. I don't stream but I have a digital front end in both of my systems , a Neodio Origine S2 CD player in my main system, and the 2nd system is fronted by either  a Mojo Audio EVO DAC or Modwright Elyse DAC,  and a Simaudio 260DT CD transport. Like you I enjoy my listening sessions. Where I guess we'll agree to disagree is on the blanket take that a DAC/streamer will always trump either CD or vinyl. Anyway, enjoy the music, that's the end game

@juanmanuelfangioii 

None taken! It's all good my friend. 

@facten ​​​​@lalitk Yes I sure did miss the point. So sorry no offense intended. 

You completely missed the point of my post. I have no qualms about how anyone choose to spend their money or their personal preferences / priorities for vinyl or digital.

@soix 

@drbay You’ve got a really nice system, but I think the Node is a significant bottleneck to better performance.  Many people here have experienced very significant improvements moving up the chain and I think it would be a good idea to at least try a better streamer

I am sitting here listening to my Node 2i just enjoying the music and thinking how great it sounds through my old Museatex Meitner DAC modded by John Wright.  

@soix yes, please let us know if you find a solution to some of the iFi Zen Stream’s issues. At it’s price point and the better fidelity reviewers have noted over the Bluesound Node used as a streamer only, it would offer a great bang for the buck - if it didn’t have those issues...bad Wi-Fi connectivity, stuttering or glitching on the 1st song every single time in Tidal, etc.

I use Tidal and Wi-Fi so until those issues are ironed out it will be a non-starter for me, hence the reason for looking at the MX-Stream by Musical Fidelity at $1100. Considerably more expensive but it does offer a lot too, and there is some value to be placed on less aggravation. I’m tired of being a Beta tester. Been doing that too long for too many companies and their products and software with little to show for it other than a few extra grey hairs.

As others have noted, this "streaming game" is still in a state of flux. I’m not looking to upgrade every 6 months when something "new and improved" comes along. Instead I want to get something and be happy for 5 to 6 years at least and then if I’m still alive and kicking, maybe upgrade. Thanks.

Digital is pretty easy, and comes naturally to me.

@thyname I hate you.  No offense.