Slight tangent. I have a Node 2i I plan to move to a second system after an eventual upgrade (so this is a great thread). I have an SSD I plug into the back of the Node for files to augment what is available streaming. I would like to have all my files still accessible over the network by the Node as well as whatever new streamer I upgrade to. What are my options besides going to Roon or another server? Should I look primarily at streamers with no internal storage and plan on running an NAS? Do any of the next tier streamers have an easy way for the Node to use them as a server. I doubt I'll ever run both systems simultaneously. I just don't want to maintain multiple libraries, I'm bad enough at keeping up with one.
any suggestions on what to replace Bluesound Node 2i with
I am doing a major upgrade on my home theater system. I want to upgrade my streamer. I can spend around $4500 if I have to. My dealer played a Lumin T2 and the music, Tidal, sounded amazing. He said I would be okay with the D2 if I wanted to save money
Any one have any experience with the the Lumin's. I am open to other streamers, it does not have to be Lumin. Thanks
Any one have any experience with the the Lumin's. I am open to other streamers, it does not have to be Lumin. Thanks
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OP here. After reading the various comments and hearing the T2 I will probably replace my Bluesound with the Lumin T2. Might as well spend the money once and know I have an excellent streamer. I know from the comments that there are cheaper and maybe better solutions. I think for what I want to T2 is probably my best option |
Can you really here a difference! Even if you do a blind test. A dealer told me a Belcanto sounds better, but no one talks about Bellanto. If so what causes the sound difference? Is it clock speed.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJIj0Acq99o&t=245s the raspberry pi is used here as the case study but the general points answer your query |
OP, just to chime in. I went from using the Hegel H390 as a DAC and streamer to using the T2. OMG, what a difference. Even before I broke in the Lumin T2, the SQ was breathtaking. Suddenly I could hear each instrument unfold separately while at the same time, every piece of the music came together. After running it 24/7 for two weeks, the sound was even sweeter and more complex. I second comments of @rajivhifi.I will add that I replaced the stock cable with one from audiosensibility - which was definitely part of the equation. |
I’d back up and re-think your architecture. Problem #1 is that you really didn’t describe one. Exactly what functions is the streamer performing? How many DACs if any? Where? How connected? This has huge impact on whether the streamer makes much difference at all. It also has a huge impact on, if it DOES make a difference, if power supply changes impact it (or isolation or ....). I strongly suggest a dedicated library/streaming machine, like Roon or your fav, somewhere away from your system, plugged into a different outlet, and fully isolated by your network. The add bridges that handle the local network termination and deliver USB to your DAC. Make sure the DAC’s USB is isolated, OR the streamer has clean power to its USB output, OR both. Ensure very hgih quality (re-) clocking at the DAC. At this point the streamer brand will matter very little. I will say that the Node, as a full streamer/DAC is pretty mediocre. Easily beaten by many $99 DACs. G |
On further reading, I’m seeing that @jjss49 comments about the power supply not really pertaining very much to the streamer section of the BS echoed by other posters on other forums. I lack the knowledge to assess but since I have a very good digital coax and power cord, probably leaving it alone is the way to go on the BS. See, e.g.: Comments exchange: oskar bjuhr 3 months ago So is this only gonna affect the sound when using the inboard dac and not when you are using a digital out and a seperate dac? TheAlphaAudio 2 months ago Correct. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVJW7e6ZSxQ&ab_channel=TheAlphaAudio |
I just got my Pi2AES working. Very pleased, its kinda awesome. So I have a` Raspberry Pi with a Pi2AES hat on it. It feeds my DAC a very low noise and low jitter signal which lets it sing a bit better. Before I had a regular USB connection to the DAC and it was pretty nice, its a Denafrips Ares II. Now its getting denoised by the Ethernet connection to the Pi, and reclocked by the extremely capable clocks in the Pi2AES. Then it goes SPIDIF on nice Cardas digital cable, to the DAC. If it was a more expensive DAC the Pi2AES would really come into its own. It speaks AES directly to any DAC and that’s another layer of goodness. It just takes files from my computer, to the Pi, then to my DAC. Its very simple and what I want, but the Pi could do any damn thing. It does wireless and has 4 USB ports apart from the Ethernet port. You could stream from it, to it, use it to deal with all kinds of audio schemes, and it can directly deliver an outstanding bit stream to any device. |
I bought an Raspberry Pi 4 w/ HAT (allo digione signature). It has two separate power supplies, with a linear power supply for the output board and a switch mode for the raspberry pi board. Then I run coax tommy Schiit BiFrost 2. I cannot compare against anything beside a MacBook but I think it sounds stellar. I run Volumio which can be glitchy |
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I’ve been using a Primare NP5 for the past 6 months after using a Bluesound node. I am really pleased with it. Gapless playback, solid built application and not overly expensive. Not to mention it sounds better and its Roon Ready. My only gripe is that it doesn’t output audio via USB. I will try adding an ifi power adapter at some point. I went this direction because I like trying out different DACs . But I only stream music for background noise or to sample an album before buying . |
Initially, I had a Sonos connected to to my Anthem MRX 1120 and replaced it with Node 2I. I also have a separate 2.1 system with a Yamaha AS 2100. Early this year, I replaced Node 2I with a Roon nucleus along with a Farad Super 3 LPS. This is my preferred setup as I have Nucleus connected via USB to a Denafrips Pontus DAC. I stream both Tidal and Qobuz and can control via Ipad, PC or mobile device. Auralic G1, Lumin, Innuos and NAD C658 are great choices to consider, but having a good DAC and/or streamer with quality LPS is key to great sound from Tidal and Qobuz! |
The alternative to the Lumin T2 with the same quality build and sound quality would be the Auralic Altair G1. Both are vastly superior to the D series which I have own ed and both use ESS chipsets. Both are very favorably reviewed by reviewers and owners alike. Will likely come down to your preference for looks or software design though the Auralic is about $1500 cheaper. There are several dealers that carry both and if you search them out you can talk to them about both units. |
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This iFi Zen Stream unit just came out. I have one and am happy with it so far. It works with everything I can throw at it and incorporates their other technology into S/PDIF, USB, and power supply. I have an external USB drive plugged into it and it uses Volumio as the interface for playing those files. This is designed to output to an external DAC and does not have analog outs, which is perfect - I didn't want to pay for that. I wanted something dedicated for getting internet content and local files to my DAC and that's exactly what it does. https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-stream/ |
As a happy T2 user I would recommend the Lumin T2 especially if you are coming from a Bluesound 2i. Prior to the T2 I had the 2i. Tried using its internal DAC but was crap and then had it go into the Mytek Brooklyn Dac+. It was decent but nothing great. SQ-wise the T2 sounds spectacular. The weakest part is the Lumin app but since I use Roon I have no need to touch the app except for the initial setup. |
I find Bluesound to be not as good as Control4 streaming to my Anthem. I am also thinking that Apple Lossless even though it is 12/44 is sounding better than Bluesound Bluesound Node 2i is optical. I have tried it with RCA, and Coaxial. My best results by far have been optical. I find that HDMI has been better so that's why I am not using Bluesound. To be fair when I tested coaxial I used a $30 cable, I'm sure I would have had better results with a higher quality coaxial. The optical cable is the one that came with the Bluesound I am doing a major upgrade on system so I am looking for a major upgrade to streaming. I stream Qobuz but now I also stream Apple Lossless |
When it’s digital it is not hard to make something sound different as desired . So no doubt streamers can sound different for many reasons. Outboard DSP is likely to be able to reproduce similar results. I think it’s better to say I have never heard bad sound come from a streamer through a good DAC, not that they all sound exactly the same. |
@jjss49 Yes, as my post stated I am looking for a replacement. I find myself listening to Qobuz more through my Control4 Hdmi set up with my Anthem 1120 than using the Bluesound which is connected optically to my Anthem. I did hear the Lumin and was pretty amazed, I just don't want to spend a lot of money without checking other options |
I moved to the Innous Zen Mini and Zenith for my networked systems. I had the Bluesound Node's before. I upgraded my DAC's to Ayre QB-9's, so I needed something that used USB instead of optical. In any case, I am very satisfied with the changes. @OP, Be advised, research what inputs your streamer accepts. Also, check what software it uses, as some limit what streaming services you can use.(The Bluesound sort of spoiled me with all the apps you could use). Innuos can use Roon- which I find to be a very fine piece of software. I tried Aurender, but I never warmed to their software, and it is only limited to Tidal and Qobuz. Bob |
so the op evidently wants a new combo streamer/dac unit in a single box, as the lumin units are just that... entry level lumin d2 runs a pair of wolfson bitstream dac chips and uses a solid state analog output driver stage... iirc the d2 is not transformer coupled like the higher lumin units next up t2 runs ess sabre 9028 bitstream dac chip, has adjustable volume control (nice feature), and i believe the output stage is transformer coupled at the xlr outs so nice smoothing of the sound there... either should be a fairly decent sonic upgrade over the sound of the node 2i heard at its rather murky analog outputs (albeit at fairly significant add’l expense) |
I did the upgrade last year and went from a Node 2i running into the Chord Qutest and I replaced the Node 2i with an Innuos Zen mkIII going into the same Qutest via USB. Streaming Qobuz. To those doubting you can't hear a difference in streamers, I am sorry to say there was a big difference going through the Zen. Bigger soundstage, both depth and width, dynamics had more body, less digital glare and harshness on female vocals. The Innuos just has a greater sense of realism, you can hear deeper into the music. The Innuos products are amazing streamers, not to mention their server ability to easily rip CD's to the internal library is insanely quick and easy. They just released their new 2.0 which for me will replace Roon. But there absolutely was a difference and it was far from subtle. |
Personally I have not heard significant differences between streamers to same DAC with CD res sources. . Never heard a bad one. Interface type used can matter. Asynchronous USB is the way to go with most modern DACs. I only use wireless internet connections to isolate the streamer from any noise that might exist on a wired connection and find that works great though some claim a good wired internet connection is better at least in some cases perhaps with hi res sources where wireless bandwidth perhaps could come into play. |
@mapman +1 My bluesound streams via an excellent analysis plus cable to an R2R tubed dac with various upgrades and a good quality powercord. I would like to A/B the Bluesound with another streamer, but I suspect it would be hard to tell a difference. But, OP, you asked for opinions about Lumin and I'll confess to not having experience, there. Whichever streamer you do get, if you get a chance to compare it with your Bluesound -- keeping the DAC the same -- I'd love to hear from you what kind of improvement you hear when every other variable (including the room) does not change. |
The title said I am replacing the Bluesound so I am looking for a replacement, not a DAC. I will use to stream Qobuz My dealer suggests either Lumin T2 or Lumin D2 I can spend the money on the Lumin T2 but I was looking for other options before buying. I already gotten a lot of good suggestions to check out |
op needs to be more precise... is he replacing the node 2i being used as streamer and dac (e.g. using its analog rca outputs) or is he seeking just a streamer upgrade only... case 1 makes sense, maybe get a better outboard dac put it downstream of the node case 2 may be $ spent with limited sq upgrade |
@hilde45 Some say that there are implementations of the Raspberry Pi that are better than other options.The Raspberry Pi 4’s wired Ethernet doesn’t share the USB bus like in the previous versions. Otherwise, if you used a USB DAC with a Pi 3 B+ and streamed the file over the network using a physical connection (like my setup) you’d encounter random drop outs. There is a fix - reducing the link speed to 100 Mb/s - but it requires some technical knowledge. Otherwise, I honestly can’t tell the difference between something streamed from my Pi or played from the Oppo UDP-203 with VanityHD board. They both sound equally good over the Benchmark DAC3. |
I’m a very happy T2 user. Don’t forget it’s everything, especially including the room, that effects sound. The T2 has a good DAC chip in it. A DAC is mandatory. Don’t rock out at home with out one. You might find not much a difference between any mid range priced units. To me most all sound good. I’ve listened to maybe eight? |
Innuos Zen mkIII or Zenith mkIII. That is the upgrade I did last year. I went from a Node 2i to a Zen mkIII. The Node is a great piece for its price range, but the Innuos Zen is in a whole different class. I loved it so much that last week I sold my Zen and went to a Zenith. Watch John Darko's review of the Zen. |
