I see this has been covered but not recently. I have had a few amps in the 100+ pound range. I liked them enormously but I am in a small space and am tired of dealing with these behemoths when I need to move them around and the real estate they take up. They were all wonderful in their way and I would like to have kept them but for their immobility. But can one find true love after such heavy weights with a feather weight 55 pounder? Have technological advances in 2019 made such a thing possible? I had a pass 350.8 which I loved but you can't keep a Stonehenge rock in an apartment living room.
I agree, I don't buy into the theory that the transformers have to be large, either. The primary reason class D amps have such good bass response is their typical high damping factors, often >1,000, which is directly related to how well an amp is able to control the movement of bass drivers and panels. The other bugaboo often mentioned by some is the switch mode power supply (smps) used by some class D amps. All the class D amps I own have typical linear amp power supplies using toroidal transformers but that's just a coincidence and not intentional, I know from personal experience the smps performs just as well as a power supply on the amps I've heard.
Nope, they all do. That’s why it’s important to wrap the transformers in mu metal. Of course you can ignore or dismiss the whole issue. I really don’t care. Even toroidal transformers that supposedly don’t emit magnetic fields do, in fact, leak. Been there, done that.
On account of the fact that our amps don't have output transformers, they tend to be lighter than other tube amps that make the same power. For example our 140 watt amp weighs 36 pounds.
It’s no secret that big honking transformers produce toxic magnetic
fields that distort the sound and that transformers produce mechanical
vibration that affects everything in the chassis, especially given that
transformers are bolted down to the chassis.
I have great bass - slam, articulation and plumpness, the whole nine yards, and am using a Sony Walkman CD player. Consequently I don’t buy into the theory that the transformer has to be large.
bdp24: "Tim deParavicini of EAR-Yoshino says he can predict the bass sound an amplifier produces by looking at the size of it’s transformers."
Good morning, If Tim deParavicini of EAR-Yoshino is as smart and knowledgeable as I think he is and heard a good class D amp in the last 5 years, I doubt he still believes or states that. I believe that's an old quote he made back in the 1990s referring to conventional tube and solid state amps at that time, not more recent class D amps.
It’s no secret that big honking transformers produce toxic magnetic fields that distort the sound and that transformers produce mechanical vibration that affects everything in the chassis, especially given that transformers are bolted down to the chassis.
I believe I have heard of amplifiers that have a separate case for the transformer but I cannot think of a specific example right now.
>>>>Michael Green says he removes the transformer and places it far away from the amplifier, connecting them with long wires. An enclosure for the transformer would be fine as long as the enclosure was a low frequency high permeability alloy. I.e., mu metal. Two enclosures would be even better. 🤗
noble100"It’s funny how outdated you both sound...You both obviously just lack the experience of listening to a good class D amp...with no experience listening to good class D amps, you’re both willing to spread outdated and no longer accurate information...Hopefully, both of you will be able to listen to a good class D amp soon"
What is funny is how you are convinced you know what I have listened to when in fact you have no idea what I have listened to and simply can not believe that what you like is not what others like and that many people think Class D has a long way to go before it can equal the consistent, reliable, superior performance of most conventional designs and I base that observation and conclusion upon listening to a variety of Class D amplifiers.
It’s no secret that big honking transformers produce toxic magnetic fields that distort the sound and that transformers produce mechanical vibration that affects everything in the chassis, especially given that transformers are bolted down to the chassis.
I believe I have heard of amplifiers that have a separate case for the transformer but I cannot think of a specific example right now.
Tim deParavicini of EAR-Yoshino says he can predict the bass sound an amplifier produces by looking at the size of it’s transformers. Transformer design is an art, requiring a compromise between various considerations. Too small and the bass suffers, too big and the highs do. Capacitance, inductance, etc., have to be balanced against each other.
clearthink: "Class d is ok for subwoofer amplifiers at least until you compare them to something better such as Bryston or Pass."
jsautter: "I agree with clearthink on the issue of Class D amps. Havent heard one yet that I have liked."
Hello clearthink and jsautter,
It’s funny how outdated you both sound. There’s been very good class D amps on the market for at least the last 5 years, maybe longer, such as Bel Canto, Merrill Audio, D-Sonic, Red Dragon, Wyred 4 Sound, Channel Islands, any of the DIY amp kits using the Hypex NCore power modules and others I’m probably forgetting. You both obviously just lack the experience of listening to a good class D amp. After all, you don’t know what you don’t know, right? It’s just a shame that, with no experience listening to good class D amps, you’re both willing to spread outdated and no longer accurate information. It is true that they all generally have exceptionally good bass response, when compared to the other traditional amp types, since they typically have very high damping factors. What you both apparently don’t realize however, is that good class D amps generally share other qualities such as very low distortion and background noise levels which results in very high levels of detail, very high power and dynamic range capacity, very neutral sonic presentations with nothing added or subtracted from the inputted signals as well as midrange and treble responses that are detailed, accurate and natural without being harsh or bright. The above is an accurate description of what I’ve experienced owning and listening to good class D amps both in my own system and many others I’ve listened to. Hopefully, both of you will be able to listen to a good class D amp soon to update and broaden your knowledge and experience. Oh yeah, I just realized I almost forgot to mention all the other non-sound quality benefits of class D amps, which are relative affordability, small size, low weight, high electrical efficiency, low electricity consumption and low operating temps.
I certainly havent heard them all but I have heard some which were considered top shelf. What I find encouraging is that a well know tube preamp/amp manufacturer who I really respect is experimenting with these type of amps.
Like any amp, some people like certain Class D amps and some do not. Some do not like any though I would tend to doubt they have heard them all. Only way to find out is to identify candidates and try one like I did to test the waters.
Nevertheless, they do solve the size and weight problem and that was a big reason why I decided to try. That and see what the latest, greatest technology could do compared to others.
Myself, I have three now ranging in price from $85 to $6000 retail and have been listening contently with these now for ~ 10 years, and I’ve pretty much heard it all over the years.
@ebm You're long overdue to post your system on here that Audia amp sounds very cool! @roxy1927 Unless I missed it you didn't say what speakers you'll be driving with your new amp?
mapman"Class D amp technology enables amps to be much more efficient and much smaller."
Now as soon as they can get them to sound like music and compete with real amplifiers intended, designed, and manufactured for use in Music Reproduction Systems then they will really have something.
Class d is ok for subwoofer amplifiers at least until you compare them to something better such as Bryston or Pass.
Yes, Class D amp technology enables amps to be much more efficient and much smaller. For high end, check out Bel Canto ref600m amps for example. Or even the Fosi amps on Amazon, which are most affordable and about the size of a pack of cigarettes.
When threads request equipment recommendations like this one, it seems that readers for some unexplainable, unhelpful, strange and annoying reason, often consider these types of threads as invitations to just blindly name whatever gear they happen to use. An example? miketuason reads the OP's request for a high quality, good performing amp in the more reasonable 55 pound range and he inexplicably gets the urge to post: "I have the McIntosh MC601 monoblocks 600watts, only 95lbs each." ONLY 95 pounds? What? EACH? What the F? Why would anyone feel the need to post this? How exactly is this relevant? Or helpful? Doesn't this poster realize his amps are roughly double the requested weight.....EACH! Why did he feel the need and take the time to post at all, right?
I suspect Michael Green might be on to something when he says he went to very low mass systems, especially low mass amplifiers. If thy eye 👁 offend thee pluck it out. It’s no secret that big honking transformers produce toxic magnetic fields that distort the sound and that transformers produce mechanical vibration that affects everything in the chassis, especially given that transformers are bolted down to the chassis.
roxy1927 I have had a few amps in the 100+ pound range. I liked them enormously but I am in a small space and am tired of dealing with these behemoths when I need to move them around and the real estate they take up.
If you’ve got speakers that can be bi-amped a Schiit Aegir 20w Class-A on the mids and highs and a Schiit Vidar for the bass, both amps are proper linear solid state with linear power supplies, not big (about the size of a shoe box each) or heavy or expensive. $1500 for both. You’d have to use a passive like the $49 Schiit SYS on the input of the Vidar to equal both amps gain, as it’s higher gain at 22db than the Aegir at 12db. Then your active preamp volume control would be the master and drive both the SYS and the Aegir inputs. https://www.schiit.com/products/aegir https://www.schiit.com/products/vidar
The Music Reference RM-200 Mk.2 is slightly over 40 lbs. unboxed, and is an excellent tube amp for low impedance loudspeakers. It puts out 100w/ch at both 8 and 4 ohms.
Encouraging the OP to not at least give a good class D amp a free in-home audition for a month is just willful ignorance, akin to encouraging not hiring the most intelligent and competent black job applicant because of their skin color.
Failure to consciously keep an open mind and failing to evaluate all viable amp solutions based exclusively on their performance merits, not only demonstrates a lack of confidence, mental weakness, a lack of intellectual curiosity and willful ignorance, these mental afflictions also are capable of preventing the OP from discovering an ideal amp solution.
Music Reference RM9 MKII is a classic tube amp, weighing in at 60 Lbs and works with a variety of tubes (EL34, KT66, KT77, KT88 and KT90). Can be found on the used market for $2.5K, give or take. I've had mine for about three years and have no intention on changing.
@pehare, thanks for bringing the RM-10 to my attention. I check the new listings everyday, but somehow missed it on Saturday. It's 25/35w/ch (there are two versions of it) might not be enough for the OP's speaker demands, but it's THE amp for the old QUAD ESL.
I have Audia flight Strumento #4 MK2 power amp it weighs over 200 pounds but sounds wonderful.I had Pass 350.8 before that it was a great amp as well weight only about 127 pounds.Your correct small amps are eiser to move but none i heard sounded as good as the heavy weights.
the last SS amp I owned was a Pass X250 - boxing that thing up was tough on my compressed deflated discs....my current (since 2011) Music Reference RM10 MkII weighs 15 pounds and sounds every bit as good and adds tube magic w/the right speakers....rock solid reliability and dead quiet.....I can't believe somebody hasn't bought the unit for sale here now
You’re a perfect candidate for class D. Here’s an excellent pair of D-Sonic M3a-600-M mono-blocks for $2,150/pair, 800 watts at 8 ohms, 1,350 at 4 ohms,brand new, 3 year warranty, rca and xlr inputs,a 30-day free in-home trial period and 10 pounds each. Check out the specs, I think you’ll be surprised.
I’ve been using the earlier model of these, the M3-600-M monos for about the last 4 years on a pair of Magnepan 2.7QRs and they sound very similar to my previous 85 pound Aragon class AB stereo amp but with better bass, a quieter background, more detail, better dynamics and an even smoother mid-range and treble. Mine are excellent amps and I believe these newer ones are even better. They use so little juice I just leave them on 24/7. Of course, they’re not going to sound as good as your Pass 350.8 but they both combined weigh about 110 pounds less and they run much cooler. You may want to read some
For years i used a Krell FPB 700cx as my main amp (180 lbs), moved it from the US to Europe, and took it for day long drives on 3 occasions for repairs, swore i wold never go that heavy again. Now my main amp is a MBL 9011 (223 lbs) hoping to add a second at some point. The Krell is still hanging around relegate to subwoofer duty. Big amps just sound best in my system. Go figure !
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