Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD

And now, back to our regularly scheduled program (please!)

Bigkidz, I respectfully suggest that you advertise your product by purchasing a listing.

Mattnshilp, I appreciate the effort that you are putting into these comparisons and for your time in sharing your findings with us. Regarding the final paragraph of your last post about the Lampy having an inferior USB port that requires an external USB converter, I would like to mention that the Rowland has a similar limitation in its design. It has been reported on this forum that the Rowland design team themselves has admitted that the Aeris sounds its best through the SPDIF inputs and not via USB. Their USB implementation is also limited to a high of 96kHz sampling frequency with the SPDIF inputs supporting up to 192kHz. Just wanted to point that out if it may impact your decision. I ruled out the Aeris DAC due to that 96kHz limitation via USB as well as its lack of support for DSD file playback, but of course everyone has differing needs and priorities. I also have a fondness for Rowland gear as I currently own their model 625 power amp which I find superb! Best of luck as you continue the evaluation process, and thanks again for taking the time to share your results.

Matt, you have nothing at all to apologize for since you made your intentions very clear. You have been up front about your specific situation and objectives (i.e. only being interested in a DAC's 16bit/44kHz performance.) Your efforts are still very helpful to many of us and appreciated. Keep up the good work and glad to hear that you're still enjoying the process. Sometimes such evaluations can become tedious and less than enjoyable for many of us with less patience than you obviously have.

Tbg, you CAN continue to use your BMC DAC to play double DSD! You just need to setup JRiver to output via DoP. Even though it then transmits the DSD data via PCM frames, it still IS the actual DSD that the DAC will then reproduce.

Tbg - JRiver can output DSD128 as either a direct bitstream in native DSD format, or as DoP (DSD over PCM, which is still true DSD but transmitted in PCM frames.) In the specs for the BMC DAC given above, it doesn't state in which format it supports DSD. Once you find that out you need to setup JRiver accordingly and then the BMC DAC should be able to playback DSD128.

Alex - I've tried to explain the same thing to Tbg, but apparently our words are falling on deaf ears. (That's just an expression that seems to apply in this case, and is not meant as any condemnation of Tbg's hearing acuity!) He is apparently convinced that DoP is not truly native DSD and cannot be swayed from that belief. I do appreciate your effort though, since I gave up several posts ago!

Looking forward to your impressions of Alex's DSD-S DAC! He is an extremely well versed engineer so my expectations are very high on it.

Matt, thanks for your very detailed first impressions! Not many posters would take the time to be as thorough as you are. I hope that you can still enjoy the process, since shootouts like this can often be tedious and somewhat frustrating.

Neal, Matt already tried the DS DAC and eliminated it from the competition. Come on man, keep up with the thread! ;~) Seriously though performance is very dependent upon system matching and personal preferences, and I know you're not alone in liking the DS DAC!

Matt - I couldn't find confirmed US pricing but the SCD-025 sells for £16,500 in the UK which converts to ~$27,700 US.

Just to clarify my previous post on the cost of the Vitus SCD-025, the 16,500 quoted was specified in GBP (British Pounds, not Euros.)

Audiolabyrinth - Matt stated in a previous post that he hoped to have some further updates today (Wednesday) depending upon his availability and work load. In the mean time he hoped to be spending some less stressful time just listening to and enjoying his system. I'm sure he'll be back, stay tuned...

Melbguy1 - I'd be curious to know whether you've had the chance to audition the recently introduced Berkeley Reference DAC, and how it compares to the Vitus. It's priced at $16K but is supposed to be a new standard which excels at PCM decoding. Thanks in advance for your input!

Just an FYI, there have also been several improvements made to the Bricasti M1 DAC recently, including a new DSP board as well as upgraded OCC copper wiring and fuse bypasses.

I agree that the ultimate test is in the listening, and nothing else really matters. However it is interesting to note that all of the claims regarding the cause of the Allnic DAC's poor measurements refer to its fragile vintage tubes that were apparently damaged in shipping. However some of the worst and most disturbing measurements were in the digital section of the DAC, not the analog stage. Best of luck with your room acoustics, and we look forward to your further findings in due time. Good listening!

Ric - I'm also very intrigued by the Yggdrasil DAC. I just contacted Schiit for an update on its expected availability, and they responded "End Q1". Stay tuned for additional user feedback and reviews at that point.

Mitch2, the Aqua LaScala MkII DAC is a very unique design which I've been unable to audition. Your comments on its performance would be very much appreciated. Good listening!

Mitch2, sounds very promising! I currently run the Bricasti M1 DAC and would be curious how the LaScala would compare. From your description I would suspect that the M1 may have better defined bass, but the midrange of the LaScala as you describe it sounds very seductive. I look forward to your further comments, thanks again and enjoy it!

Matt - will it be the latest version and already broken in? Looking forward to your impressions.

The current software version is v1.22, which adds support for DSD128 and requires a new DSP board. Units having these latest updates from the factory should also have the power supply changes (which had an earlier availability) as well as the recent OCC fuse bypasses which make another significant improvement in the DAC's performance.

Just to clarify, the revisions noted in my post above are in reference to the Bricasti M1 DAC.

I agree with Ctsooner, and am personally looking forward to hearing the new Chord DAVE which is scheduled for production in October. It's a technological tour de force that has the potential to be a game changer although it won't come cheaply. Hopefully it will live up to such high expectations!

And the implementation is exactly what is so impressive about the upcoming Chord DAVE DAC. There is nothing else even close to its level of technology and computing power. As I said previously we have to wait to hear it to see if it meets expectations, but its implementation is far beyond anything else available.

Matt - No need for any embarrassment please, that was not my intention at all. Just trying to clarify it for others. Wishing you all the best in your extensive search, you are much more patient than most of us audiophiles!

Matt - with all due respect I think you may be referring to the XMOS USB input receiver chip, which is used in many high end DACs including the Bricasti M1. CMOS stands for a Complementary Metal–Oxide–Semiconductor, a technology for constructing integrated circuits but not related to USB input circuitry.

Al is correct as usual! While Joseph Audio speakers do not actually use the original 'infinite slope' crossover design that they use to, they still incorporate a very steep slope crossover filter design which sounds even better. As such the crossover prevents frequencies in the breakup regions of the drivers from being excited. So they benefit from the speed and articulation of the drivers used while avoiding their potential shortcomings. The Pearls are a true full range design that have a seamless presentation with superb imaging. Most people are shocked at how good they are when they first hear them.

I haven't heard any of those PMC models, but they use a unique transmission line loading that generally loads the room well but differently than sealed or other vented designs. Should be worth your effort to try them in your room if given the opportunity.

Branislav - you might think it would but it doesn't. That was Dynaudio's top of the line model, and the inverted driver configuration is an integral part of the design. Instead of time aligning the drivers by positioning them in a physically stepped array like some others do, they accounted for the additional delay as the driver frequency increases by being further away from those drivers as their offset angle increases. Of course they also took the rolloff of the drivers into account as you get off axis. All in all, an ingenious design that is a true classic!

It is said that many listeners think they want a system with flat frequency response, until they hear one! My experience agrees with Agear's.

Matt - I know there's quite a list of speakers you've tried and I may have missed your mention of them, but have you considered any Sonus faber speakers? I just heard their Guarneri Evolution monitors and was blown away by them. While there are other speakers that are more impressive upon initial listening, I haven't heard any that are as seductively smooth in the mids along with such sweet highs. Of course depending upon your musical preferences they may or may not hit your sweet spot, but they do it for me and thought you might want to audition them. Their larger models like the Amati Futura and above are more full range designs. I also heard their lower priced Olympica line, and while they're very polite and easy to listen to I found them lacking the 'magic' that their upper models have in spades. Good listening!

Matt - If I may correct you on one point, the Rowland 625 (which I own) as well as the series II version are Class A/B output amplifier designs, which do not use an nCore module. The 625 and 725 are their top level amps using a Class A/B output stage along with Rowland's custom SMPS. Their 825 and 925 amps do make use of the nCore output modules combined with Rowland's unique SMPS design.

DoP stands for 'DSD over PCM', which transmits DSD data via PCM frames. The original DSD data stream is then reconstructed from the data in these PCM frames, and the DSD data is converted into analog.

George - While I appreciate the sound quality of DSD, I believe that digital recordings are best represented in whatever format they were originally mastered in. So to my ears music that was originally mastered in DSD sounds best when converted to analog directly, and likewise PCM mastered material sounds best when converted from PCM. A lot depends upon the specific DAC being used though, as some excel in either DSD or PCM and may sound better in their best format even with converted files. Nothing in audio is absolute, there are many differing opinions on this topic. I'm not certain about your last question, but I don't think that DoP support necessarily indicates that a Delta Sigma chip is being used. I'm sure someone here will speak up to correct me if I'm wrong about that.

And reportedly that system at RMAF sounded far better with the Rowland amp than it did with the Lampizator tube amp that they originally used.

Winson, I agree there were some mixed opinions of the room with the Lampi 211 amps vs. the Rowland 625 S2. I own the Rowland 625 and find it stunningly good, and I can only imagine how much better the S2 version must be!

Tbg - I just checked and that room at RMAF was using Ayre Acoustics electronics between the Merging Technologies DAC and the German Physiks speakers.

Matt - really looking forward to your impressions of the Berkeley Reference DAC. Thanks and keep up the good work!

On the distributor's website it shows the DAVE's US retail is $16,000, but I recall reading that it's ~$13,500 without the machined base.

Despite the reports of its exceptional sound, there is one operational issue I have with DAVE is described on page ten of its manual:

Dave has two menu options specifically tailored for PCM or DSD playback. You can play both PCM and DSD music using either mode, but each one is specifically optimised for a particular format. In order to cycle between each mode please highlight the segment and press both left and right navigation buttons simultaneously for one second.

PCM+ - Use this for PCM playback up to 768KHz. DSD playback up to DSD256 is also supported but it is decimated and not optimised in this mode.

DSD+ - Use this for DSD64, 128, and 256 (single, dual and quad speed) playback. There is no decimation. PCM can still be played and this mode is ideal for streaming video with audio as it has a lower delay.

Before changing modes please stop music playback and mute your amplifier to allow the clocks to resynchronise and avoid incorrect playback. Please note that when switching between PCM+ or DSD+ modes there will be a 20 second delay where the display will show ‘Mute’. This is to allow the unit to program, and for the system to settle.

This is a significant limitation to me, since you can't effectively play a group of tracks that are a mix of PCM and DSD formats decoded optimally without decimation. If you only play PCM or DSD files in separate sessions or can live with a 20 second reboot when changing between PCM and DSD then this is not an issue.

Regarding the Chord DAVE, it is reported to be exceptional with PCM possibly even setting a new standard regarding its natural recovery of depth and decay. However its performance level with DSD is not at the same level, and to maximize its sound quality requires a reboot of the DAC which takes about 20 seconds. So playlists with a combination of PCM and DSD files are not well suited to optimal playback with the DAVE DAC. For users with all PCM files it may be the ultimate DAC solution.

+1 on ctsooner's post. While many Yggdrasil owners want to believe that it's the best DAC in existence, in the real world it provides a good value but is not in the same league with some of the other uber-DACs being discussed on this thread. As long as owners are happy with it that's great, but proclaiming that no DAC at any price can beat it seems a bit optimistic.

mitch2 - Regarding your interest in the Aqua Formula and LaScala DACs, they just announced a new 'LaScala II Optologic' which is the latest version at $6,600 US. It now uses the R2R Optologic DAC technology developed for their Formula DAC.

dragon_vibe - Really appreciate sharing your comments and experience! When mentioning your preference for the PD Merlot you've specified for DSD. How do you find it to perform with PCM files? I've seen the same thing mentioned elsewhere regarding PD DACs and would appreciate getting your further thoughts in that regard. TIA!

Playback Designs currently offers the Merlot DAC in their Sonoma series and has announced their higher end Dream series at recent shows. There is no current DAC from PD below the Merlot DAC. http://www.playbackdesigns.com/

Just a word of caution regarding Light Harmonic Labs in the following thread I came across and thought it would be of interest here. I have no personal experience with them but thought that potential buyers of their product should be aware of their history. If there's another side to the story it would be helpful if others would share it, TIA. https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/34857-light-harmonic-labs-rip/

The battery powered phono stage that CT is referring to above is from Sutherland: http://sutherlandengineering.com/home/

Matt, you're such a tease! ;~) No need to apologize, all of your effort to share your impressions on this thread is greatly appreciated. We'll look forward to further updates as your schedule permits, thanks!

Mola has been touting their stand alone DAC for well over a year and yet it still doesn't exist. Their engineering skills are very well documented but they seem to have some issues delivering a finished product to the marketplace.

Glad you believe to have found "perfection" in DACs at such modest prices. Apparently there are different ways to define exactly what perfection means, unless you've compared them to the best existing DACs available at any price. If you haven't done that such declarations are essentially meaningless, and really just saying nothing more than you've found some low cost DACs which meet your standards. Others may have higher goals and more resolving systems which reveal flaws that you may be willing to live with. To each their own, that's why we have free markets! Let the competition for the ultimate DAC continue here...