Thankyou Guidocorrona for backing me on matts Esoteric K-01 player, I believe he will further benefit with your help I am sure, He also needs to talk to other owners as well, I do not want matt to get false impressions of the k-01 player, or frustrated with all the burn-in!, He has no idea that this player takes more burn-in than any player in the world!, but man, the out come is staggering!
Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD
Hi All.
Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.
I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.
Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?
All opinions welcome.
And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.
Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.
I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.
Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?
All opinions welcome.
And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.
Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
4,487 responses Add your response
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ps: Matt, if you're looking for a good value high end S/PDIF cable, i'd recommend the Jorma digital cable which is excellent value imho. 2nd choice would be the Nordost Valhalla 2, though i'd take the Jorma every time. You can buy this cable new from The Cable Co for $1100 & even try it out to see if you like it! |
Matt, I've auditioned the Synergistic Research Tesla D2 coaxial digital cable and was impressed. Some say the D3 is even better. Link here: Synergistic Tesla Digital Cables Also, please note that the DSD-S (as many other DACs) has RCA type connectors for the digital S/PDIF inputs using the WBT NextGen that are 75 Ohms too. This was chosen after experimenting with various BNC connectors. So maybe it will be better to get a BNC to RCA cable that will give you a better flexibility. Looks like the Cable Company has a Tesla D2 with BNC to RCA. Link here (scroll to the bottom - Digital Cables): Tesla D2 BNC to RCA digital cable Best, Alex Peychev APL Hi-Fi |
08-31-14: Aplhifi-usa Alex, you have a name for yourself modding transports like the Esoteric. What would be needed to bring it up to snuff, and similarly, would could or should Matt do to bring his Mini up to snuff? |
08-31-14: Mattnshilp Erik strikes me as an instigator and one who enjoys making waves.... It does not pull from iTunes. You either use a NAS or install something like Minimserver (free) on your Mac to communicate with the Aries. Easy breezy. Being lazy, I chose the later..... |
@melbguy1. Thanks for your support. It seems like they avoid honoring the warranty at all costs. I would expect better from this level of high end electronics. I can't buy it ever again. I would be afraid to. If someone takes that king of dough from me and they don't honor the product fixes. There is gonna be a huge problem. I expect service and performance at a high level. I would not be sure if I would get that from them. It's unfortunate that product with so much potential lost a customer like myself for life because of poor customer service. |
Alex, you have a name for yourself modding transports like the Esoteric. What would be needed to bring it up to snuff, and similarly, would could or should Matt do to bring his Mini up to snuff? Agear, those are tricky questions, especially not knowing the audio system synergy in question. From experience with older Esoteric units, there are some clocking upgrades needed, as well as digital signal path and digital output circuit redesigns. Power supply upgrades might be helpful too. The MacMini (especially the later ones) are not very desirable for audio server, at least from what I know. The early examples with Core 2 Duo processor had a dedicated graphics card, while the new ones feature the Intel graphics built into the processor. I have experimented and, in my opinion, when the graphics module inside the processor is used, it takes from the memory and contaminates it (because it uses/shares the same memory controller). Best to me will be an Intel quad-core processor without built-in graphics, and that is what I have as a reference in my audio system. Also, a MacMini, even with a linear power supply is a very similar solution to a MacBook Pro. Some actually may prefer the latter as it runs on a battery power. However, in both cases the multiple charge pumps (switching power supplies) on the mother board supplying everything remain intact, resulting in somewhat mechanical and lean audio quality, at least to my ears. I personally prefer linear power supplies. Hope this explains it. Best, Alex Peychev APL Hi-Fi |
Actually I'm in traction from trying to move it alone from car to house. Holy cr&p this things heavy! My ODSE will be done burning in tomorrow. Ran it for a month straight. 720 hours +/- . I need help getting the K-01 into the rack, so I'm waiting for my brother to come over and help. Been busy with the kids. Last few days before school starts, lots to do. Looking forward to a normal routine again. Alex is sending the DSD-S back to me but I'm not sure when. I'll post a quick report of my ODSE when I get a chance to listen. Hopefully it will sound the same as the one I auditioned before. I'll also post on first opinions on the K-01 when I get it set up. Sorry for the lul. |
Mattnshilp, Digital cables recommendations below 1k. - Sablon Audio Panatella You'll see Tjay, I think, mentioning that it was better than his 2.5k Stealth Sextet which he once loved. - top of the line Coincident Speaker Technology digital cable, ask them directly, they got some new cables. Both companies sell directly, so the prices are great to start with. I have both cables, and chose them after comparing them to Argento Flow, Audioquest Eagle Eye, top of the line Mapleshade, Stealth Varidig, and some others that I forgot. Argento Flow was wonderful as was my premall rounded Audioquest Eagle Eye (beware of fakes that are easier to come buy than the original), Mapleshade was compromised but interesting and well worth it but definitely not worth of your Esoteric K-01, Stealth Varidig I shouldn't even mention, only to put things in perspective. I never heard Stealth Varidig Sextet, though. I can also recommend Argento Flow and Audioquest Eagle Eye if you can find them cheaply second hand. Again, you probably won't find an original AQ. Mexcel cables should work well with your Esoteric but they won't represent a good value for money compared to Sablon and Coincident. |
Matt, re digital cables--I've tried a handful of $1k+ digital cables, and my favorite by far is a 1.5m Transparent Ref XL (xlr version). Pricey but you might find a used one in the price range you mentioned. This cable has soul :); so much so I want to use my dac's xlr input just so I can use the cable! Best, Randy PS-I'm loving the Romulus Sig; I think it's fully burned in now. I've found out that until a firmware/software is available in the future, it can only play dsd files via its usb input. |
OK. I now have a double hernia, but the K-01 is in the rack. I needed to shift some equipment around and move a shelf to fit it. Wow, what a unit! solid as a brick and heavy as a anvil. I am burning it in from CD in the Guido Corona approved setting. I think he put about 250 hours on it already (I think he read Guido's thread since it was already set to those settings). ODSE will be ready tomorrow. I had to unplug it for 12 hours because of a bad thunder/lightning storm. Even with the whole house power surge suppressor, I still unplug when those big bright flashy zig zaggy things outside threaten to cook my beloved gear! No time this week to sit down and listen. it will have to wait until next Wednesday. I'll listen to the ODSE and then give the K-01 a quick listen as a dec as well as pulling out some of the CD sources for my test Play list. No follow ups from the manufacturers, except for Vitus who said they currently have no SCD-025 in the states available for audition, but are working on it. G'night all... |
09-04-14: Audiolabyrinth As I have tried to tell you Dilberts before, 20-30,000 hours should be a mandatory burn in time to prevent the premature chopping and changing of audio OCDness.... |
I have heard/read 500 hours per setting. I will burn in the 2 or 3 most frequently mentioned settings on the forums and then listen. The ODSE finished off its month straight of digital food. I turned it and the computer off to give them a well deserved rest. I'll turn both back on Monday for a good listen Wed. The K-01 is on day 2 of a it's 45 day'ish whirlwind tour of the digital burn in show. Staring - holy crap, if I have to burn one more piece of kit in I'm going to blow an audiophile grade fuse in my cabeza! With special guest - uh oh, now I need a new power cord, spdif cord and XLR interconnect for my K-01! I knew this was going to cost me more then I thought... Featuring - obsessive compulsions Produced by - an unyielding need to find the best performance possible no matter what it takes or costs. Directed by - If my wife asks you, that cable was $132.78! And of course the store gave me full credit on my previous purchase with this trade/upgrade, and a killer discount as well.... And sponsored by my favorite quote: My worst fear is that I die and my wife sells all my stuff for what I told her I paid for it!!!! As my great grandmother used to say, "Oy Vey!" |
matt, as far as you Esoteric player goes, I would not consider more exspensses for a while, the player should be really good with everything stock, and use the cables you already own,be carefull when you play with power cords, they are quirky, and it is difficult to find the proper voicing match to any componet, a difficult rabbit hole to go down, but when you do get a revolutionary match, the outcome is quite stunning! |
Hey Matt,now I can see how power company executives can receive those outlandish golden parachutes! ...High-end audio equipment burn-in with a smidgen of OCD thrown into the mix. Keep that meter spinning...big daddy wants to parachute right into a hacienda on the beach, in Maui,of course... Great thread...carry-on. |
Electronic components should never need more than 200 hours or so. The capacitors are the most difficult to burn in aren't they? I've never heard my gear need more than 300 hours but maybe my stuff sucks. Personally I'd never buy anything that needed that much burn in as I like to listen to music more than gear anyways but that's me. Companies should put their gear on a bench and burn them in before shipping if they really need more than a couple of hundred hours. Jmho |
Hi Keith, I do not own a K-01 at this time. My past findings are summarized in some of my previous posts. Sorry... I am not looking for "believers" of any sort... A healthy dose of Skepticism is expected and welcome. If anyone has experienced stabilization of K-01 in significantly less than 1K hours, please post your detailed findings here or on one of the various K-01 related threads. G. |
Gentleman, I am not kidding here about the burn-in proccess of the Esoteric K-01, go ahead, talk to any owner you like, they will tell you the same, go to the few threads here about the Esoteric players, I have had this conversation many times with owners of all the new Esoteric units, I was just like all of you guys, I did not believe it either!, after so many times of being told the same thing by all the owners, I had no choice but to believe them, OCD has NOTHING to do with it! |
Hi Matt, I have been following this excellent and enlightening thread for a while and would like to chime in with regard to the issue of burn-in. I have been enjoying my K-01 for more than 2 years now. While I agree that burn-in is important, thinking about this detracts from the immense pleasure that can be wrought from this amazing player well before the 500-1000+ hours called out by others. I would like to echo Ctsooner that 200 hours is good enough to start enjoying the gorgeous capabilities of this player. I also have The Muzik speakers in my system, and with the K-01, this is indeed a match made in audio heaven. The sooner we stop thinking about the number of hours needed for burn-in of each of the options - 4 for upsampling and 4 for digital filtering, the sooner we can derive pleasure from just listening. While there are gains still to be perceived after more hours, the increments are small. After 200 hours, the many options/combinations can be tailored according to the overall system sound, personal tastes and the recording on hand. The beauty of this machine lies in its ability to be tailored to many possible situations with no one "right" combination. It's simply laissez-faire. Congrats on getting your ODSE DAC. Unless I am missing something, with the ODSE as DAC for the K-01 as transport, the burn-in of all the K-01's options may be moot. Happy listening! Jon. |
Matt, Thanks for your message. To keep the discussion open in relation to this thread, I reproduce the relevant parts of your message below. "Thank you for your input! It is appreciated and heard. I am listening to the K-01 while I break it in. But not critically for the thread until properly broken in. It actually had about 250 hours on it, so it doesn't need that much more for its current settings. May I ask what settings you use? And may I ask what other amps you considered/tried with the Muzik speakers? I am looking for a new uber amp and Guido Corona has made it very clear that The Muzik speakers demand more then 700 WPC into 4 ohms to deliver the dynamics and nuances that they are capable of." I am currently using DSD for Upsampling and OFF for digital filter. It's strange as I am not a dsd diehard but somehow, having gone through all the different combinations, the dsd setting gets it right 90% of the time. This setting gives a wider and deeper soundstage, provides more body to and air around instruments, while notes decay that much longer. My general impression for all the settings are as follows, depending on the overall sound of the system or recording to begin with :- 1. Cool, dry, lean, thin, fast -> FIR1/2 2. Warm, slow, boomy, laid-back -> SDLY 1/2 3. Balanced - DSD If I am not using DSD for upsampling, I usually keep the setting to ORG instead of 2x or 4x. Of course, it's all about synergy and your mileage will vary with the amps you use. I agree with Guido that the Muzik needs loads of power to soar. The amps I use for The Muzik are the Bryston 28B SST2 monoblocks which put out about 1200W at 4 ohms. I haven't tried other amps with these speakers because I had them before the speakers arrived and I am just lucky they sing well together. So, my K-01 settings are to be placed in this source-amp-speaker context. I am not sure if you can find a pair of these Brystons used with the 20-year warranty intact..... but happy hunting! Cheers! Jon. |
Grannyring, Thank you for your kind words. In this most joyous of hobbies, there is no need for unpleasant debates. It is simply a matter of whatever that is music to one's ears. If we listen less for pleasure than worry more about what "should be" - then the whole point of this hobby is somewhat lost along the way. Btw, congrats on the very recent completion of your current set-up. Sounds awesome! |
I agree completely with Jon2020.... At about 200/250 hours, K-01 starts becoming a very enjoyable machine... Just be aware that... "You ain't heard nopn'" yet.... There is likely to be even better to come for a spell. So, if you are not yet in rapture at this point, be patient and postpone panicking and placing an Agon ad for a while. On the other hand, if panic / buyer's remorse could not be avoided, Do not worry about it.... Some lucky adoptive parent will pick up the "little" beauty and love its music on your behalf. Concerning filter/upsampling settings.... I felt in my own system that 4X + S_dly2 offered a balance of resolution versus musicality that suited me. On the other hand, I might not have broken in the DSD engine to completion. Besides... A personal preference is exactly that... A personal, and often temporary matter. Bottomline, K-01 is an amazingly flexible tool... It can deliver enjoyment to many, but not to all, within a variable amount of break-in time... Let us leave "Beliefs" and the pursuit of absolutes where they belong. G. |
I've been very pleased with my Playback Design DAC 5, has external usb conversion box, lot's of inputs. I use it for my hi res computer system, my Qsonix server via digital AES, and my Oppo 105 via digital RCA. it up samples to DSD, or 2xDSD, and makes whatever source I use sound great. It's been a reliable rock, and I've experienced outstanding customer service and guidance on all things DSD and JRiver from both my local sales team of Ed, as well as Jon Tinn himself. Can't ask for more than that. It has stood the test of time in my rig. Just my opinion of course, and with the synergy of my system. Fun to reach for the stars.... |
