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Matt,
I am ok, man. The audiogon server went a bit whacky and i thought my first post didn't get through, so i posted a new one and so on and voila!...they ALL finally appeared together! I was agreeing with you, not myself. Lol! |
Matt,
Thanks for your message. To keep the discussion open in relation to this thread, I reproduce the relevant parts of your message below.
"Thank you for your input! It is appreciated and heard.
I am listening to the K-01 while I break it in. But not critically for the thread until properly broken in. It actually had about 250 hours on it, so it doesn't need that much more for its current settings.
May I ask what settings you use?
And may I ask what other amps you considered/tried with the Muzik speakers? I am looking for a new uber amp and Guido Corona has made it very clear that The Muzik speakers demand more then 700 WPC into 4 ohms to deliver the dynamics and nuances that they are capable of."
I am currently using DSD for Upsampling and OFF for digital filter. It's strange as I am not a dsd diehard but somehow, having gone through all the different combinations, the dsd setting gets it right 90% of the time. This setting gives a wider and deeper soundstage, provides more body to and air around instruments, while notes decay that much longer.
My general impression for all the settings are as follows, depending on the overall sound of the system or recording to begin with :-
1. Cool, dry, lean, thin, fast -> FIR1/2
2. Warm, slow, boomy, laid-back -> SDLY 1/2
3. Balanced - DSD
If I am not using DSD for upsampling, I usually keep the setting to ORG instead of 2x or 4x.
Of course, it's all about synergy and your mileage will vary with the amps you use. I agree with Guido that the Muzik needs loads of power to soar. The amps I use for The Muzik are the Bryston 28B SST2 monoblocks which put out about 1200W at 4 ohms. I haven't tried other amps with these speakers because I had them before the speakers arrived and I am just lucky they sing well together. So, my K-01 settings are to be placed in this source-amp-speaker context.
I am not sure if you can find a pair of these Brystons used with the 20-year warranty intact..... but happy hunting!
Cheers! Jon. |
Erikminer,
Thanks for the heads up. The review at CA was extremely positive - sounds super delicious! Berkeley saw it fit to not include any usb input altogether. Looks like they subscribe to the philosophy that coaxial spdif is superior to any usb implementation out there. |
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Charles1dad,
Unless I am missing someone else, 99.999% of us in this forum would agree with you where Al is concerned.
J. |
"Where did you get your EE degree?
Steve N.
Empirical Audio"
Most unclassy indeed. And then he clams up after Almarg's classy reply, tormented by what his next response should be - even more unclassy.
This is why in any forum discussion like this, civilities are of paramount importance. |
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Erikminer :
If I was Matt considering that at the beginning of this very long journey the original goal was: "Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD"
I'd "really" want to get a listen to the Berkley.. but that's just me.
+1 |
"......considering that at the beginning of this very long journey the original goal was: "Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD....."
In the eyes of the audio world and the professional reviewers, the list of ABSOLUTE TOP TIER DAC for Redbook CD would most likely include the following(not in order of merit) :-
1. dCS Vivaldi stack
2. Berkeley Reference
3. Esoteric Grandioso
Anything lesser would be considered second tier. JMHO.
The audiophile community looks forward to a shoot-out amongst these 3 sources, most likely by an unbiased dealer who carries all these brands.
Cheers! |
If the Berkeley Ref at $16,000 comes anywhere close to the sonic quality of the Vivaldi or Grandioso, and it seems to have the potential to do so, going by the reviews so far by CA and TAS, then it would indeed be a very "affordable" top tier DAC. |
"Although they are very good, I preferred the DAC in my room, the ODSE."
But, of course! |
Thanks for the heads up, 4orreal.
I found the link to a review of the fascinating Trinity DAC :-
http://www.trinity-ed.de/typo/fileadmin/template/bilder/reviews/387_trinity_dac.pdf
After reading the review, it should most certainly be added to the shoot-out list. |
Well, surprise, at over $50k, the Tinity DAC does not do DSD as well, just as intended by its designer. |
Charles1dad,
Your observation is interesting.
When you say the Lampizator 7 moved you more emotionally, is it being a lot more musical than the Trinity, or is there something else?
Jon. |
tbg,
If the inexpensive BMC puredac floats your boat, then that is all that matters. Price is always secondary to personal pleasure and synergy within the context of your system. I personally find the 1k Marantz NA8005 network player supremely pleasurable, elevating the overall sound quality of my system by a considerable margin.
Charles,
+1. Audio vocabulary has always been a bugbear in this hobby. |
Wisnon,
Thanks for the heads up to Stereo Times which reviewed the BMC PureDac very positively, making it a very big bang for the buck.
I also chanced upon another product reviewed in Oct 2012, the Memory Player 64 from Laufer Teknik. At about $17k, it is a one-box solution that includes transport and DAC for redbook CD's and hi-res files. This is another fascinationg product for the shoot-out list.
There is also a very positive review by, er, Positive Feedback at the link below :-
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue65/memoryplayer.htm
Happy reading, all. :) |
Alex ->
It is all, or nothing at all.
+1. J. |
Andrew, Grannyring,
That system synergy is essential is indisputable. I have been in this hobby for about 20 years and when I finally got it all together from source to speakers 2 years ago, I am just too scared to change any one component in the chain, including cables and accessories. And so I have not. I have only recently added a media player for hi-res audio. Adding isn't half as stressful as changing, especially if you are just adding to expand your music collection/experience. It would be like adding vinyl to one's music experience and with that, all the analog components that go with vinyl.
As for now, I simply want to forget about the equipment, kick back and be awash in the music, literally. |
Agear,
Agree. Even so, a comparative review of the latest state-of-the-art digital gear would make a good read on a lazy Sunday afternoon. :) |
It's a shame that this thread has degenerated to product touting by a persistent small manufacturer. |
Should be ok, AL, as long as it isn't product touting. |
Here's the link to Audiostream's review of the Overdrive ODSE + Power Supply + Final Drive + Short Block
http://www.audiostream.com/content/empirical-audio-overdrive-se-usb-dacpre
Reviewer's comments, comparing it to the Bricasti M1 :-
"The Overdrive SE sounded closer to the tonal balance and general sound of the Bricasti Design M1 DAC. The $8995 Bricasti was even faster and more resolving in the midrange and highs than the Overdrive SE and while possessing much of the general ease of the Analog DAC. Adding the Final Drive, Short Block, and direct balanced connection brought the Overdrive SE’s performance closer to that of the Bricasti Design M1." |
I suppose they can post but they should be civil and professional at all times without resorting to insulting and inflammatory remarks. |
There is a good review of the Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 DSDSse in the latest TAS Spring Buyer's Guide issue, with an interesting comparison using the Off-Ramp 5 usb converter in and out of the chain. |
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Thanks, Almarg.
Regards. Jon. |
More points of interest on the new Cary Audio DAC with on-board reclocker and separate independent solid state or vacuum tube analog output stages to choose.
So many new things to learn about DAC technology :-
http://www.caryaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/DMC-600-DMC-600SE-Features.pdf |
IMHO, the K-01's internal dac is a bit long in the tooth now, as alluded to in another thread.
I humbly predict the following results :-
1) with the K-01 as transport feeding the well-regarded Overdrive SE dac, the SQ of redbook cd will beat out the internal dac of the K-01
2) a cd spinning in the K-01 transport will beat out the same redbook ripped file playing through the mac mini. The K-01 remains a very formidable transport for physical discs
3) VERY high quality redbook recordings on physical discs played through the K-01/ODSE combo are likely to sound as good as most hi-res files played through the ODSE's usb input.
Happy listening!
J.
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Guido,
The power of Googlesphere revisited :-
http://www.technics.com/sp/global/
Cheers! J. |
Matt,
We are actually in full agreement.
When I put up this list :-
"1. Cool, dry, lean, thin, fast -> FIR1/2
2. Warm, slow, boomy, laid-back -> SDLY 1/2
3. Balanced - DSD",
I meant that the settings to be used depends on the overall sound of a system or recording. So, if cool, dry, etc -> use FIR. If warm, slow, etc -> use SDLY. And in a well balanced system, the DSD setting is best.
Hope this clarifies.
As to your finding that the ODSE is better as a straight DAC, I predicted that in several posts back. :) What might improve your current SQ is the addition of a usb-spdif converter from the mac mini to the ODSE.
Cheers! J. |
Here's the next "latest" on the market.
http://www.caryaudio.com/products/dmc-600se-digital-music-center/ |
Whitewind,
Trinity vs Vivaldi - this is absolute top tier stuff. Please tell us more about the comparison setting - preamp or no preamp, power amp, speakers, etc.
Thanks in advance. J. |
Hi Scott,
Nice of you to drop by. I have read the rave review of your product in HiFi+. The transport currently does not have a direct input for usb thumbdrive, SD card or solid state hard drive. Would you consider this in your future designs for those of us who may not want to do streaming or have a computer near our audio rig? If not, could you tell us whether such a provision would compromise sound quality in any way?
Thanks in advance.
J. |
Hi Scott,
All that you have said is indeed music to my ears, so to speak. If I do get the CAD transport, it would be solely for hi-res material. 1 TB of internal SSD is more than enough to hold my current hi-res collection. Can the transport output DSD or 24/192 data via spdif, either RCA or XLR, to any other hi-res DSD DAC?
I ask this because I have quite a number of such files but I note from your website that the CAD DAC is neither DSD nor 24/192 capable. Do you have any plans to incorporate such capability in the near future?
Many thanks. J. |
There is a barely new Esoteric K-01X on auction at Audiogon now. Current bid is 10k but below reserve price. May be an opportunity to get this on the "cheap". |
Thanks, Scott, for your very informative reply.
Please correct if I am wrong - for 24/192 data, the transport can transmit this to the DAC which then downsamples to 24/96?
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Hi Scott,
1. What happens to 24/192 data after transmission from the CAT to the DAC which supports sampling rates up to the maximum of 176.4?
2. Can the CAT output to any other dac or is it, by virtue of its single output which is usb, limited only to the CAD DAC?
3. My conclusion is that the CAT cannot function as a stand-alone transport without the DAC. Is this correct?
Best regards. J. |
Thanks, Scott; for clearing the air.
Your answer to Q2 makes the CAT more desirable now.
Cheers! J. |
That's the thing about digital. There is always something new and exciting just around the corner.
And right now, at its price, the Berkeley Ref dac can't be beat as the current world reference. The price tag of $16k isn't eye-popping but the positive reviews so far indeed are. Can it be better than the megabuck dcs Vivaldi or the Esoteric Grandioso? The audiophile world waits with bated breath for that sort of shoot-out.
As good as the Overdrive ODSE is, whether it befits the title of this thread, "Absolute top tier dac ...." is left to the everyone here to ponder but not by much, I would venture. |
"09-10-14: Audioengr
...... What are you talking about? Where did you get your EE degree?
Steve N.
Empirical Audio"
"09-10-14: Almarg
..... Where did you get your EE degree?
BSEE Columbia University
MSEE Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
+ 33 years experience designing and managing design of analog, digital, A/D, and D/A converter circuits for defense electronics." |
Hi Matt,
I have been following this excellent and enlightening thread for a while and would like to chime in with regard to the issue of burn-in.
I have been enjoying my K-01 for more than 2 years now. While I agree that burn-in is important, thinking about this detracts from the immense pleasure that can be wrought from this amazing player well before the 500-1000+ hours called out by others. I would like to echo Ctsooner that 200 hours is good enough to start enjoying the gorgeous capabilities of this player.
I also have The Muzik speakers in my system, and with the K-01, this is indeed a match made in audio heaven.
The sooner we stop thinking about the number of hours needed for burn-in of each of the options - 4 for upsampling and 4 for digital filtering, the sooner we can derive pleasure from just listening. While there are gains still to be perceived after more hours, the increments are small.
After 200 hours, the many options/combinations can be tailored according to the overall system sound, personal tastes and the recording on hand. The beauty of this machine lies in its ability to be tailored to many possible situations with no one "right" combination. It's simply laissez-faire.
Congrats on getting your ODSE DAC. Unless I am missing something, with the ODSE as DAC for the K-01 as transport, the burn-in of all the K-01's options may be moot.
Happy listening!
Jon. |
Grannyring,
Thank you for your kind words. In this most joyous of hobbies, there is no need for unpleasant debates. It is simply a matter of whatever that is music to one's ears. If we listen less for pleasure than worry more about what "should be" - then the whole point of this hobby is somewhat lost along the way.
Btw, congrats on the very recent completion of your current set-up. Sounds awesome! |
Thanks for the kind comments.
As cliched as it may sound, the proof is in the listening.
For the K-01 to perform optimally as a transport alone, the following settings are necessary :-
1. Digital out > CD
2. Upsampling > ORG
3. Digital filter > OFF
4. Analog out > OFF
Cheers! J. |
"09-06-14: Jon2020
....I am currently using DSD for Upsampling and OFF for digital filter. It's strange as I am not a dsd diehard but somehow, having gone through all the different combinations, the dsd setting gets it right 90% of the time. This setting gives a wider and deeper soundstage, provides more body to and air around instruments, while notes decay that much longer.
My general impression for all the settings are as follows, depending on the overall sound of the system or recording to begin with :-
1. Cool, dry, lean, thin, fast -> FIR1/2
2. Warm, slow, boomy, laid-back -> SDLY 1/2
3. Balanced - DSD
........"
Hmmm..... |
Hi @mattnshilp,
This is off topic but just a shout out for your enjoyable review of the SabrinaX in the latest issue of TAS. Keep up the great work. Congrats!
Cheers!
Jon |
