A Couple Little Things I'm Wondering About

I spent $160,000 in building my custom engineered listening room.  My former $30,000 listening room which was not engineered but used some of my concepts (5.5" 3000 lb psi steel reinforced slab, 2X6 staggered studs on 8" plate every 8" dual 5/8" soundboard and 5/8" X drywall, 90 lb dense plush carpeting, separate subpanel, 20 amp breakers 12 g. wire, SR black power outlet) but had vaulted ceilings to 11.6', multipane wood casement windows to the sides of the speakers and 1/2 height rear wall, steel CD cabinets for 4,500 CDs, 18,000 LPs and 5,000 78s on the walls.   This room had many acoustical issues.  My professionally engineered room which I have detailed on other Agon posts is 100% better.  Sound is evenly distributed (with 25 Hz versus 32 Hz in former room) with NO bass humps or thumps, superior resolution, superior imaging, etc.  Today, in Enjoy the Music on-line, one writer documents that he would spend 40% of his audio dollars on the acoustics and 60% on the equipment, speakers and cables.   http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/1020/Listening_Room_Acoustics.htm  I agree with him.  My system is about $70,000 retail; however, my anticipated new speakers will make it closer to $105,000.  Still, I have no worries about the acoustics.  All my music is now located in the adjacent room so I have a 100% truly listening room only environment.  Oh yes, those $50 in cable lifters come in handy for improving the sound if only by 5%.

@drbarney1 ....I actually read your post in it's entirety.

Flawless logic....that's burnt my little brain entirely as well.

I will send you an invoice for the time it will take me to put all my little marbles back into my skull.

However, my results Will Vary....to degrees unknown at this time.

glupson....+300mil 👍

Stay tuned--I am interviewing some electrons next week and will discuss this with them.

Look, if YOU hear a difference, it is there. If YOU do not hear a difference, why worry about something this silly?

Last I checked, it is all about the music. I promise you that YOUR ROOM is a million times more important for what you hear than some stray electrons, which, I might add, fill the atmosphere along with alpha, beta, and gamma rays, among tons of other stuff.

Work on finding the best possible room modifications and forget all the cable stupidity. It is, was, and always will be bull regardless of all the oscilloscopes in the world. Oh, probably stay away from 28 gauge Radio Shack wires for speakers. It is ugly.

@djones  I tried taping my speaker cables 5' high to the rear wood wall.  The result was brighter and thinner sound.  Yuk!   I tested various cable lifters and no lifters.  There were marked differences, between 3% and 10% difference estimated.   I preferred the low cost half vibration dampening half "rubber" balls.  It's as if there was no effect, certainly not negative and about 5% better than cables lying on the very thick, dense nylon carpet.  Not monumental, but appreciable difference for maybe $50.

@unreceiveddogma +1

LOL

tuberculin,

I use silicon (I think they are silicon) covers for pretty much anything I could find them for. No dust enymore. Of course, the question is why should I care about dust in the connectors I am not using. It just makes me feel good knowing things are clean.

I never bothered to check what happened to the sound. If anything,

glupson,
I used them on a C-J PV6 and I did not notice a difference. My current pre-amp is relay controlled shunting the open inputs so I don’t need them.

I explained how my TacT’s program uses FFT to time/phase align my system, as simply as possible, and I’m trying, "...to look like an expert..."?      Hilarious!      Semantic Gymnastics is NOT a science, but- obviously all you’ve got.    Nothing you've injected here has anything to do with the OP's queries.       What you’ve proven: you’re a waste of keystrokes.      The ubiquitous last word is yours, with my compliments.      You obviously can’t refrain.

I was wondering what direction your next change of topic would take.      The twists and turns are usually endless (circular thinking).     Those of your ilk are great at semantic gymnastics.      The term, "PULSE", in regards to FFT transfers, is now your problem?      (https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a369180.pdf)      and: (https://dsp.stackexchange.com/questions/62176/difference-between-fourier-transform-and-fft-of-rectan... )                   "Convolution function" is the perfect description, for your cult’s program!      Nothing what-so-ever, to do with this thread and- no surprises!     So tedious!

@dannad- No problem, although; I’ve never used REW.      My Tact RCS 2.2X has a program that sends a very short, very strong initial FFT pulse (pop), to each of my main and subwoofer amps.      Any possible room reflections would take longer to reach the mic, than the direct, initial impulse, from speakers to mic.      The program’s time window is short enough to ignore anything arriving at the mic, after that short, initial pulse.      Once the algorithm has the data regarding arrival time differences, between each main and sub (L + R), it delays the the main, to bring it into phase with it’s respective sub, as well as adjusting the sub’s SPL to match (in my case).      Been my favorite function of the unit.      It frees me from having to time-align the acoustic centers of my subs’ drivers, with those of the mains, like back in the old days (over 20 years ago).      Of course; the closer the subs are to an alignment with the mains, the less correction the TacT has to do.      I’ve used programs/equipment in professional settings(ie: the DBX DriveRack), when bi or tri-amping, that perform the same function.      Nothing new!      After that; achieving a flat room response, using the typical auto-curve, is cake.

tuberculin,

"I thought the subject of this thread is cable lifters!"

That is half of the subject. The other half is dust caps for RCA connectors. The question is "are they just dust caps or they are sophisticated electronic accessory?"

Personally I can't find a difference. The manufacturer of my cables sees no difference. He recommends leaving them on the floor and coiling the excess. He has a very high end system (better than Chuck Miller's). I have a high end system and I can't hear a difference.

I've tried a couple of different cable lifters in my system.  As long and you avoid running an IC in parallel with a power cable and have a high end system you should not notice a difference. Try it yourself. You may like them as much as Chuck Miller does or you may find no difference at all. They do help with organizing the cables and they really look so cool!

Only @millercarbon will disagree because he has spoken and he is always right.

@dannad-      Clearly, you don’t understand the function/choice/application of, "time windows", as regards separating impulse responses, reflections, freqs, times, etc, when using FFT algorithms.    But then, no surprise!     I don’t expect anyone of your ilk (Naysayer Doctrine adherents) to comprehend, assimilate or discover anything, that reflects a modern view of this universe, or-disagrees with your rhetoric.     I never said the thread wasn’t about RCA caps, nor- did I dispute your proposed experiment.      ONLY, that I never addressed the subject.      Again: apoplectic, much?     As for my tone; if it reflects anything but distain for those of your ilk, OOPS!

@tuberculin, yes you are right, the subject is about cable lifters.

What are your findings on the subject? Can you describe the difference it makes?

"I would not be posting the following (repeatedly) unless I had a solid grounding in the sciences, at least in audio since this is an audio forum."       I wouldn't either!  

I thought the subject of this thread is cable lifters!

YES; I most definitely made that statement (regarding FFT).  Had you read the reference material posted with that statement (or- understood the acronym), you might have comprehended the message.     Then again, probably not, or you wouldn't have even challenged the statement.      I repeat:  "When one of these faith-in-outdated-science, religious fanatics can prove (via any 20th Century Science/Physics) that the above factors have no bearing on what we’re hearing, I’ll accept their version of salvation."         All I've ever done, in this thread or any other, is to put forth propositions, based on Electrical/Electromagnetic Theory (later than the 1800's), as to why certain things might actually make an audible difference, in someone's listening room.       All your cult ever does, is to dissuade people from experimenting, in their own rooms, with their own systems and ears.       btw: I've never mentioned anything to do with RCA caps (like I said: apoplectic).

The Naysayer Doctrine (like every other faith-based, religious cult) has as many dopes as it does Popes.         Bring up anything resembling SCIENCE/PHYSICS, dated later than the 1800’s and they become apoplectic, not having the formal education to comprehend the concepts, or- possible ramifications.       It would be hilarious, were it not so pathetic!          Gimme That Old Time Religion, Gimme That Old Time Religion, etc.

The purpose of the shorting plugs is to prevent ingress of electromagnetic grunge into low voltage circuits. Depending on circuit design and local conditions they can be highly effective or a waste of space. Unlike for cable lifters the technical reasoning behind them though seems sound (no pun intended)

In this universe, "honest physics" is an oxymoron.

I have placed my speaker cables in the nearest inter-galactic black hole. As a consequence, I have zero interference and noise. 

I don’t hear a thing, as a matter of fact.

drbarney1,

You dialed wrong number. Please check your number and try your call again.

Stay away from cable and fuse threads. They will not be good for your health although they do get hilarious at times. You cannot make them up.

You're not going to find honest physics on this forum to much hokey subjective nonsense. Cables resting on little cups or balls every so many feet has audible differences to laying on a carpet? If it wasn't so sad it would be hilarious. 

In the matter of electromagnetic radiation from a speaker cable, at 20,000 Hz at the speed of light or close thereto, how could different arrival times of a signal through the fraction of a second of two or three meters of cable at 300,000,000 meters per second be heard? For one meter, far less difference more than a wool rug could make, that is 1/10 of a microsecond. Different arrival times at the speed of sound from a live acoustical instrument is magnitudes more. What fraction of the signal even gets through the insulation? How much dipole shifting in the dielectric of the insulator takes place and is it so slow the minuscule electric field of it able to induce in the cable itself more than a fraction of a micro-Volt? There are too many claims of questionable physics by cable marketers such as skin effect attenuation at audio frequencies which when calculated in a circuit containing a speaker with hundreds of times the impedance of a cable's resistance diminishes the signal current to the speaker by often less than 1/100 db at 20 Hz. What engineering credentials, such as graduate school, do cable designers have and where in any E&M textbook does the golden ratio appear? How can materials and labor cost anywhere near the $20,000 plus some speaker cables sell for? That is why I do not believe most of these stories about high price speaker cables and so many audio components. I am not suggesting some designs sound better to some than other. I just want some honest physics for a change.

I found most of these expensive so made some myself but didn't like the result.  Judging from what is now available and the prices, I think many audiophiles may have lost interest.  I'm going to try them on my new system but found that jack pad adapters may work so ordered a few:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Skelang+4+Pcs+Jack+Pad+Adapter+Rubber+Slotted+Universal+for+Jack+Stand%2C...
https://www.amazon.com/Slotted-Durable-Rubber-Cylinder-65x33mm/dp/B07L3W88SL

I have a quazi-high end system.   I experimented with cable lifters.  I found that 1/2 round vibrapod/rubber-like balls under the cables benefited the sound the most.  They eliminated vibration and elevated the cables 2" above the nylon carpeting (90oz-dense).  I tried caps on my unused terminals on a tube preamp but it diminished the sound quality in every location so I don't use them.  

What is the theoretical likelihood that anyone who's put a lot of time and money into a project will forever bind themselves to the projected end? And swear they hear the difference?

Why? Is that the way it works with you?

Cable elevators?
Pretty dang obvious...they elevate the sound, man. Plus, they look cool. 

What is the theoretical likelihood that anyone who's put a lot of time and money into a project will forever bind themselves to the projected end? And swear they hear the difference?

Here we go again. How can you have an opinion if you have never tried it?

@audioguy85,  how does your post address the OP's question or contribute in any meaningful way?  You state " Waste of money if you ask me." Nobody asked you!

I am seriously puzzled as to why people who have tried and can't hear differences or just regard certain tweaks as snake oil etc. without having tried, bother to waste their time and the reader's time with their vitriol.

I thought the ethos, purpose and intent of these threads was to provide helpful input based on experience. Constructive disagreement is fine and to be encouraged but the dismissive comment 'Well its your money' which often accompanies these threads is simply a rude insult, suggesting those who claim they can hear differences are delusional or subject to expectation bias.

cable lifters: snake oil

RCA shorting plugs: will protect against noise interference that may possibly occur at the unused rca terminals. Shorting them guarantees no signal, noise or otherwise will feed into your device.

@cakyol +1
In addition, some RCAs have a shorting mechanism built in which negates the need for a plug (as long as the designer connects up the third leg to ground). Ironically in my experience it's the most exotic and expensive ones that do without that mechanism.

Once you get past plugging in all the gear and music comes out of the speakers, it a GAS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6le600NWk0

My cables are draped across my wall to wall carpet and my system sounds great to me. As far as plugging unused rca jacks, I don't see how it could make much if any detectable/audible difference. Waste of money if you ask me. I'd put the money towards a nice power chord or something else....

Cable lifters can help separate speaker cables and interconnects from power cords, which can help to reduce or eliminate noise in your system. My previous system had issues when power cords were too close to other cables, so cable lifters helped to keep cables apart and the noise to a minimum.

Other than that, the mere fact of lifting cables off the ground does not lead to audible differences in my experience.

However, this is why I still use them:

1. Cable lifters prevent my robot vacuum cleaner from running over my cables. I use heavy ceramic cable lifters which do not budge when the Roomba bumps into them.

2. RCA caps keep dust and other particles away from my unused jacks, and I feel they also might be helpful in preventing oxidation.

@millercarbon has the best system in the world. It is certified by..(drum roll)..@millercarbon himself. If you follow his instruction you will end up not liking your system because your ears, head shape, room size and construction are all different. @millercarbon's system sounds better than anything to HIM!

I've tried both since it doesn't really cost anything and yes it makes a difference.  Am I doing it now?  No.  Don't really care and not worth the trouble.  I would encourage audiophiles to try some of these tweaks even if they appear to make no sense.  If it doesn't cost anything what have you lost?  

If cable risers are snake oil, then why address vibration in you components at all?  Just what is susceptible to the floor-borne vibrations your system is generating?  

cable lifters: snake oil

RCA shorting plugs: will protect against noise interference that may possibly occur at the unused rca terminals.  Shorting them guarantees no signal, noise or otherwise will feed into your device.

AG just censored my word a—. As in 'kick a—' amplifier.
Clean it up, Katzenjammers!

"AG going dogged as a result of democracy being fed to a shredder?  Snooze at 11..."

Grins just keep gettin' harder to define....

I've never seen a 12mm electron, and am happy as f 'bout it...(refered to in an early post...)

Going through a 12ga cable would be like watching a python being force-fed billiard balls in a terrifying rate of speed...👀!

Feedback?  Don't Even think about it....

"Nice doggie, nice doggie...Now, I'm not a tree, don't....!#&*!"

I met a dog recently that the owner taught it to Smile...Really.  A bit strange, but you could actually tell if it liked you.....*S with big teeth*L*