A Better Bluesound AC Cable?

better to spend money on an external DAC, if you are using it as a transport only, its academic.

@calvinandhobbes - I with you on that score - I now consider cables more important than my components.

I’ve been auditioning and building cables for over 6 years and had the opportunity to try cables on a variety of systems AND that time also allowed me to train my ears

Todays components are much better than the associated cables allow them to be, but only if the listener knows what to listen for and from your comments it appears you have a great handle on that.

Treat ANY system to good cables and it will improve the sound.
- my $350 mini system responded extremely well
- my Bluesound Pulse Mini speaker shocked the sales guy when I put a good power cables on it
- right on up to my Audio system, which sounds better than any high end/priced system I have auditioned in any audio store.

Unfortunately, many cables offer a similar level of performance and as such, for someone that has not experienced really good cables, they may not hear a significant improvement from the cables they currently own. So for them, there is no incentive to change and moving to a better sounding cables is not always within their budget.

Then there is he dilemma of which cables does a person upgrade first?

This is a dilemma not only applicable to cables, but components as well

If you start with interconnects, your speaker cables may not allow improvements to be heard and vice versa

If asked a respond with

1. speaker cables
2. interconnect cables
3. power cables

I leave power cables to last because their effectiveness can vary greatly by component (generally)

• source components "generally" show a larger degree of improvement because their power supplies may not be designed as well as the power supplies in an amp
• The improvements in replacing the PC on an amp is "generally" a lot more subtle, but some people have reported great improvements from upgrade the amp PC.
• So it’s best to leave it as - it varies from one component to another

But I believe once you have great speaker and interconnect cables, the improvements power cables bring to the game is more noticeable.

As for myself - you may have seen/read this thread...
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/duelund-conversion-to-diy-helix-geometry-cabling

These are the cables I use and they saved me a ton of $cash and provided exceptional performance.

In closing - I like to think people on this forum are getting more educated as to the benefits of installing good cables.

But it can be an uphill battle :-)

Regards - Steve

@williewonka 100%, also making instruments and voices sound more 3-dimensional versus sounding flat. People like to harp on the cost of cables, but that can have better ROI than purely spending on more expensive equipment.

@calvinandhobbes  I forgot to add DETAILS - micro details to be precise - those little reflections, echo's and reverberations off venue walls.and ceiling - what I call "Venue Acoustics".

Those add a more realistic element to the music and with it brings out more layers in the recordings.

Since my last posts I have upgraded to the Node 2i and it was worth every penny. They reconfigured the PCB, which is supposed to improve performance - AND IT DID !!!

The analogue stage is amazing - and I've kept pace with more cable upgrades, so it sounds even more amazing.
- even bigger image, due to improved clarity
- deeper bass with even more texture and speed
- faster dynamics across the board

Regards - Steve

@williewonka

Also - what type of improvements were you listening for...
- better defined bass
- faster Dynamics
- improved clarity
- larger, more well defined image and performer focus

-------------------------------------------

100%, that’s exactly what I hear from a "better" cable as well as other improvements to reduce analog noise. The "faster" improvements are something surprising to hear for sure. My guess is that better definition to the leading and trailing edge of notes helps produce clearer rhythms in music reproduction.

I also hear tonal color of instruments and voices more clearly with improvements to clean up power.

FWIW, a Synergistic Research UEF blue consistently sounds smoother to me than other power cords I’ve tried (including a $15 Tripp-Lite Heavy Gauge Power Cord) when used on both a Denafrips Ares II DAC & a Pathos integrated amplifiers. My guess is that the Synergistic power cord may be better at channeling or rejecting analog interference such as EMI which can come across as harshness and lack of transparency.

BTW, the $15 Tripp-Lite Heavy Gauge Power Cord sounded pretty decent and was clearly smoother in sound than an $200 Audience forte f3 powerChord. I also tried out a Shunyata Venom that was pretty decent. I haven’t compared the Shunyata enough versus the $15 Tripp-Lite to know which is better because the Synergistic Research cord is just clearly more enjoyable (smoother, more detailed) than all of the other cords. I think the Shunyata and Tripp-Lite aren’t so far apart in sound quality. At least, not to a degree that is clearly evident to me.

I was lucky enough to have the Synergistic, Shunyata, Audience power cords loaned to me by a friend to see IF power cords made a difference that I could hear. Unfortunately, some do & it looks like I will be now several hundred dollars poorer. Haha.

I too tried the WireWorld C7 power cord, and it really shouldn't make a difference, but it seems to to me; it seems that the overall sound is more dynamic and better imaging, but since it takes about 2 minutes to change over between the cords and power up the Node 2 again, there's no way to do a direct A-to-B comparison.  I picked this one because I'm not an AudioQuest fan and they want $90-$120 for theirs depending on where you shop.  Pangea might have one for $50, I thought.  I check my cords with a voltage tester to see if it detects voltage, and with this cord it does - my Pangea cords, it does not.  The WW one is easier to work with flexibility-wise, and the connector seems more secure in the Node's IEC connector, where my thick Pangeas do not.  It comes down to - if you makes you happy and you can afford it, fine, but I wouldn't expect any magical properties and if you're not happy with any of your equipment, I'd spend the money there first.

I have had a bunch of C7/Figure 8 power cables.

I cannot remember the earlier ones, but I currently have the Audioquest NRG 1.5 and Nordost Purple Flare. Both are better than stock and worth getting at such a low price. The Nordost was the best in my current PC sound system.

Anyone looking to build a power cable for any equipment with the C7 plug, the 12 AWG shielded pair Cryo from VH Audio is a outstanding cable. I just built this PC with only twenty four hours or so on it and I’m floored how good it is on my Bluesound Vault II.

https://www.vhaudio.com/images/shieldedtwistedpairbulk.jpg

Used the following plugs.

https://www.vhaudio.com/images/fi-11mg.jpg

https://www.vhaudio.com/images/furutech-fi-8n.jpg

Tied the shield  to the wall plug ground pin. Really loving this Vault and through my DAC it sounds very good. Probably my best audio purchase in awhile. Having lots of fun with it.

New PC built and up and running. With no time on the new cable it’s already better. Stock cable has a little bit of an edge on top but not too hot but it’s there. Comparing CD’s I’ve ripped to the drive sound much closer to the CD. Need to give it much more time to burn in but very promising. Took half hour to build and $160. All parts from VH Audio.

Whether or not going into a power conditioner I’d say it’s worth changing out the PC. I went with a shielded cable, and on a digital component that alone makes sense over the stock PC. Better plugs will help as well.  Definitely sounds much better.

Stock cord on my Node 2i plugged in to a Shunyata Hydra Triton conditioner.  Absolutely amazing performance from the internal dac.  Node plugged into a wall outlet keeps the magic out.
Granted, the Hydra Triton is expensive, but I already owned it.  A better PC might help to some extent.

Just picked up a new or refurbish Vault 2 directly from Bluesound and I am very pleased to say least. 

I tried it directly to my preamp with Wywires Silver IC’s and it didn’t sound too bad then with a Nordost Silver Shadow to the DAC in my CD player and pretty noticeable difference for the better.

I should have my parts today from VH Audio to build my own which I went with Furutech FI-11M and FI-8NC7, then using VH Audio Shielded Twisted Pair AC cable which I will tie the shield back at the wall. I might build the cable so I can float the shield on the fly as well. After I get some hours I will report my findings.

Also ordered a Supra CAT 8 Ethernet cable which I’ll have in a few days as well.

Hi, I tried the nordost purpleflare, and liked it. Sound was a bit more detailed than standard.
Later on I upgraded the rest of the system to audioquest and used a audioquest z2. Sound was a little deeper and darker. I liked it better. Changes were very small.

Bob, I never tried the internal DAC only because I have a very fine Audio Note plus a High Fidelity S/PDIF cable. 
Sounds wonderful with the Wireworld PC, but pretty dull and uninvolving with the stock.

@lowrider57 ,
I forgot to ask or didn't see it, but are you using the Bluesound internal DAC or an external DAC?
Bob

@gdnrbob, 
I have the Wireworld Mini Aurora C7 for a 30 day audition, $120 for 5 ft. Read my comments above as to why I'm returning it, but it sounds terrific. Realistic, lively, transparent. It really opened up the Bluesound.

@lowrider57 ,
Thanks for posting. Perhaps my cable wasn’t up to snuff. I’ll check out wireworld-never used them before.
Which one would you recommend?
In any case, my system sounds pretty awesome as it stands.
B

Bob, in your case the quality of the C7 you chose was not enough to make an impact. In my case, the Wireworld was a transformative upgrade; it was so superior to the stock cable.
The AQ C7 by all accounts is not a very good cable, also the higher end AQ has been discontinued.
Many of these low current 15 gauge C7’s do not equal the performance of a manufacturer’s full line of power cords.

I doubt that your system is limiting. Mine is pretty revealing with Silent Source and Siltech ICs, Audience PC’s. I hear the differences in each cable I swap. I can hear a good from bad C7 when used on the Bluesound.
I think you should try a different cable.

@williewonka ,
I'm glad you heard a difference, but considering I have AQ Thunder for my Codex, and AQ interconnects and speaker cable, I don't think I have a limiting system.
Perhaps the Power cord did make a change, but, to my ears, nothing different than before- which was very good. Thankfully, it wasn't a lot of money.
My dealer Johnny Rutan says put your best cable on your DAC/source. 

Bob

@gdnrbob RE:...

I put an AQ power cable (forgot which model) in the Node.
Heard absolutely nothing different.

What Interconnects are you using?

If the IC's are not capable of ultra-high resolution audio you will not hear Power Cable improvements.

Also - what type of improvements were you listening for...
- better defined bass
- faster Dynamics
- improved clarity
- larger, more well defined image and performer focus

You should have heard all of the above

Is the Node 2 connected to any type of power conditioner?
- Mine is effectively plugged into the outlet - i.e. no conditioners/filters 

KLE Innovations Power Cables will definitely improve the performance of the Node 2 over the stock cable

Regards

I jist picked up a Vault 2i   thanks for saving me some $$$ gdnrbob

@grdrbob, IME Audioquest PC's don't provide a black background like other cables.

I put an AQ power cable (forgot which model) in the Node. 
Heard absolutely nothing different.
B

IMO, lowering the noise floor will improve any component. In fact, I could see where you may get more "improvement" with power upgrades then stepping up super high priced interconnects (assuming you have well made interconnects). I'm not certain if $5000 power cables will reduce noise any more than a $200 well made cable, however, most component makers source their OEM cables from the same cheap, mass produced suppliers overseas. Chances are your $4000 amp has the the same power cable that a $99 Best Buy receiver has. 

I replace all of my stock power cables and improved the sound on every components

I use the following...
http://image99.net/blog/files/category-002ahelix-power-cable.html
- But with the C7 connector

The improvements were very noticeable and even better with the Helix interconnect.

Another tweak that worked wonders were placing brass cone feet (3 of them) under the Nore 2 and Power Node 2 units.

I have the Node 2, the PowerNode2 and the Pulse Mini speaker - all with the helix power cables and ALL sound  amazing

If you are NOT into DIY then checkout KE Innovations Power cables - they are very good and more reasonably priced than Nordost

Regards - Steve

Well, I tried the Wireworld Mini Aurora C7 on my Node 2i ($120) and the improvement in SQ was dramatic. Dynamic, spacious, detailed yet realistic. I recommend it if you like a forward presentation; I do not.
   In my system, the soundstage was pulled forward to the front of the speakers which caused me to  lean back into my listening chair. The drummer in a jazz combo was almost seated in my room instead of way back near the wall. Very realistic and would sound terrific if my room extended back about 8 feet.

So, still looking for a C7 cable; one that is more relaxed. But this exercise proves to me that using an aftermarket PC on the Bluesound is a worthwhile upgrade. 

There’s an Isotek C7 cable for a decent price, although I’m not familiar with their PC’s.
I do believe that a cable using isolated neutral and ground conductors tied to an earth ground (3-pin connector) would be the preferred design for draining noise vs. a 2- pin design.

https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/isotek-evo3-premier-power-cable

I think the Shunyata Venom would be a good choice, but it's another cable without an earth ground.

I’ve been wondering this myself for my Node 2 and someone here recommended a Nordost Purple Flare as a good replacement. I’m also eyeballing the Shunyata Venom 14.

I had the Pangea and it was loose. 
Now I have the AudioSensability cable, it’s a good fit and it has improved the sound. 

Can anybody explain why use a PC which only has a 2-prong plug?

Wouldn't a figure 8 (C7) IEC to 3 prong plug have an advantage over the 2 prong type? 
Noise would be drained via neutral and ground conductors to the 3rd pin on the plug (a proper ground).

Shunyata makes what looks like a high quality adapter.

https://shunyata.com/products/accessories/venom-v14-c5-c7-c7p-mini-power-adapters/

Do the Pangea SE MKII. Takes some of the brittle brightness off and tightens everything up. I am a late convert to power cable influence, but it does make a difference when the cable can stabilize voltage. Definitely worth the $50 on a $499 unit (I did mine on the Node 2i)

@lowrider57 

I wanted a shielded cable so Cullen made a c7 cable with their Avius cable and used a c7 plug by Viborg.

http://http//viborgaudio.com/en/Product/a/chanpin/jianzhusheji/2017/0821/187.html

Cheers,

Scott

I like the Pangea on Wyred4Sound modified Sonos. Prefer it to the stock cable, didn't compare it to other brands...

I am using Shunyata Venom 14 - C7 Power Cord with my Vault 2. And yes, this PC has improved overall sound of my Vault. 

Here is a Cullen C7...
http://www.cullencable.com/c7-power-cable/

I replaced mine with this:

http://http//www.cullencable.com/avius-series/

The c7 plug is by Viborg. I am extremely pleased with it.

Cheers,

Scott

You might check out pricing from one of the dealers here on Audiogon: https://www.underwoodhifi.com

Thanks @jarcher .
I looked up Wireworld PC's and they're all about lowering the noise floor, which is a good thing.

This C7 has silver coated copper and is a decent price...
https://soundapproach.com/wireworld-mini-aurora-map-mini-power-conditioning-cord.html

Wireworld just introduced a new series of C7 power cords, which I tried out on a Bluesound Node 2.  Definitely seemed to improve the sound to me.  Not a "night & day" difference....but definitely worth the $60.

BTW : am I the only one who things the Pangea power cords suck?  Most of them are monstrously large and stiff as well.  

http://www.wireworldcable.com/power-conditioning-cords.html#powertop

I don't understand what you're saying. Is it that you dont believe aftermarket cables make a difference over the cheap stock cable made of who knows what materials? Or do you mean with the Bluesound Node's low current draw and no separate ground there would be no audible difference?

If you really think that changing the AC cable on your Bluesound will make it sound "better" - well, keep dreaming! Go ahead, spend the money! I recommend getting a Pangea from Audio Advisor. I bought one too - nicely made and not too expensive!

@lowrider,  I have this exact question myself!  So, I realize that I'm no help here, but I'm hopeful others chime in to help on this excellent question.  Best part of this forum is to benefit from the experience of others where possible.