$27,500 for whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat???

@andy2 - "high-end" isn't an interesting term. Is it high-end or not? What if it's only mid-end? What if it's 53.5678124326243% high-end? It's just not an interesting term. obviously.

How about "leggy"?  

@andy2 - "high-end" isn't an interesting term.  Is it high-end or not?  What if it's only mid-end?  What if it's 53.5678124326243% high-end?  It's just not an interesting term.  obviously.

@Andy, "high-end" is of no interest to me. I have no problem differentiating the two.

It has nothing to do with you.  I am just saying about this forum which is both "audio" and "high-end", and whether you like it or not, it's not my problem really.  

@Andy, "high-end" is of no interest to me.  I have no problem differentiating the two.  People who are interested in audio want the best performance for however much they're willing to spend.  People who are interested in high-end are of no interest to me.  It's such a ridiculous term.  

"high-end" is for people who aren't really interested in anything other than being better.

Better than what?

 It's not a "high end" forum. It's an audio forum.

I think this is both "audio" and "high-end" forum rolled into one.  Anyway, it's hard to separate the two.  Most regular people probably have some inexpensive receivers bought from Fry's Electronics.  A 1000 dollar separate amp probably considered "high-end" to most people.

"paint shop or three for large shiny objects starting at $100 m each" - what?  It's not a "high end" forum.  It's an audio forum.  These are two very different things.  An audio forum is for people interested in audio.  A "high-end" forum is for people who are interested in "high-end".  "high-end" is for people who aren't really interested in anything other than being better.  It's really an absence of interests.  There's nothing in the entire universe you find really interesting so you fall back on the most basic lizard brain instinct - competition.  The lack of interest in audio means you don't care too much about performance.  It's more important to have what others can't.  It's so boring.  

I am sure those who driving Corollas will say the same thing to those who are driving Ferrari.  You won't be able to imagine what it is unless you have a lot of money.  I can't either but at least I can understand on the abstract.  

And yes, I am envious of Ferrari drivers lols.  

"$27 G's isn't subjective, it's a fact."

That is kind of steep. Thankfully, Wilson will give you a paint job for only 27K.

Even that is expensive, but it really is not that much. Each one on this thread has a piece of equipment that seems obscenely expensive to regular people. $1000 amplifier is, among regular people, very expensive.

A valuable thread, learned the mayor has guards red ! Not sure about Carbon, maybe it really is carbon...

paint, good paint well applied and to EPA and other standard is expensive. Perhaps we can all agree we look silly on a high end forum bashing the subjective customer of rabid capitalist providers of audio jewelry?

btw, I ran a paint shop or three for large shiny objects starting at $100 m each, tough customers those.... customers 

$27 G's isn't subjective, it's a fact.

I wouldn't know.  I never had it before :-)

Exactly, Andy.  People are all worked up over subjectivity.  $27 G's isn't subjective, it's a fact.

How much do you think Wilson would charge for a wash and wax and detailed?  For that money, I'd like mine cleaned and waxed :-)

Again, I am NOT defending anyone here but the truth is fancy finishes are driven by consumers not the manufacturers. Builders build mini-mansions because there are people out there who want to buy then. Boutique car companies build $1M + cars because someone out there needs to own one to be different. I can name at lease five well known audio companies (I know this first hand) who have been asked by their Chinese importers to build more expensive products because they have clients that demand the best and equate best with most expensive. It's not right or wrong, it just is. Point is, don't always blame the manufacturer.

I would bet that someone at the factory called someone about a paint job, they said “sure”, who then called someone else who called someone else who called someone else etc and the $1500 paint job middle-manned itself Up to $27k.  I’ve seen it done.

But you get 5 coats so its a GREAT deal dudes!!

I won't comment on whether or not the price for the paint upgrade is justifiable. As a speaker manufacturer I can comment to how expensive custom and automotive finishes really are. Many of these paints are three stage systems. Price out Ford 2020 Mustang Rapid Red. For one gallon of color, base coat and clear coat plus reducers and catalysts you are looking at around $3K. That doesn't include any primers, sealers, fillers or any other prep materials. How much labor do you think it takes to produce a flawless finish? Cost of running a paint booth? EPA? Paying a highly skilled painter. Special handling? It's a lot of work.

Hey, I'm not trying to defend anyone here, just sharing what I know. We quote custom finished per request. They can be all over the place. Usually a decent quality (not too exotic) veneer is less expensive than glossy paint. Anything textured is usually the least expensive. Also, you loose economy of scale doing one custom finish at a time. 

Before we brought our speaker cabinets building in house I received a quote from a reputable (they make cabinets for several of the big names) cabinet shop for our Apollos. Our Apollos are comprised of two towers and two outboard woofer modules. To go from a standard lightly textured finish to a piano gloss or automotive finish for all the pieces they quoted $12K to $14K over the standard cost. That didn't include the actual cabinets. So, standard cabinets = $X. Cabinets finished in High Gloss Ferrari Yellow = $X + $14K. And that's our cost.

Many speaker companies sub out the finish work and usually the cabinets too. Do you think a high quality paint shop is going to give a speaker company that sell products that cost more than most homes a price break? No, but they will produce a flawless finish and charge for it.

"Vanity Brand" comment, I love it. I too agree Wilson makes some aesthetically challenged loudspeakers. I have never, ever, understood their appeal. I have listened to a few over my life and never felt "wow" 

Awry? From the original post about, well not really about anything but mentioning, paint on some speakers. All the way to talking about the way those same speakers look. Not much departure from the original topic.

See how fast discussions go awry?  Oh....we audiophiles.

I don't think they were stating as fact, but expressing an opinions, just as every single audio component reviewer does. I don't think the Darth Vader mask is ugly. I do find Wilson speakers to be ugly, and have shown them to many of my artistic friends, and they agree. Sure, everything is subjective, but that doesn't mean that everything is equally not ugly. There is a reason why there is a profession around design and art. Not everyone can do it well. My opinion is that Wilson's speakers are some of the ugliest out there. It's a shame, too, because I've heard them, and they sound quite nice. Same reason I'm not going to wear a Cosby sweater, even if super comfortable (unless I'm wearing it ironically, but they are much cheaper than these speakers).

For those who think Wilson speakers are "ugly", two words "Darth Vader". Ugly as hell but the mask has been sold like mad. I am sure they made a lot of money.

It's funny how people all worked up over "subjectivity".

cd318

... there's no question that Wilson Audio sell some appallingly ugly loudspeaker ...

Opinion stated as fact. Whether a speaker system is "appallingly ugly" or not is purely subjective.

@yyzsantabarbara  
"When the Wilson rep was demoing the $200K whatever it was called with D'Agasinto (sp?) mono blocks (Dan as in the room). I thought the prices for the gear was a little insane for what I was hearing. It was really good with large scale but it was not the best thing I have heard.

The most uncomfortable part was when I was speaking with the Wilson rep (some VP) and my wife comes over to us and says to the Wilson rep, "Why are those speakers so ugly, they look like Darth Vadar". That comment did not go over too well."

Good for her - I wish I had the nerve to make such comments when confronted by audio monstrosities. Ever encouraging of those brave souls who venture into the manufacturing side of things I just tend to find something/anything positive to say and then quickly move away.

However, that being said I have no problem with mentioning here that even as a fan of some of the more elegant Wilson designs (Sasha/Sabrina) there's no question that Wilson Audio sell some appallingly ugly loudspeakers. 

I guess that as long the money keeps rolling in Daryl will keep churning them out. And why not? 

Just as long as they don't screw up the more elegant models. Looks do still  matter - as all but the out of touch insanely rich know.

stereo5

You were upset I said Wilson is just a greedy bespoke audio company ...

No, I wasn’t upset at all, and it’s not at all clear what would lead you to that conclusion. (Virtually nothing in this forum upsets me, btw.)

... and went on about Walmart suppliers not making a living wage

I have made no such comment here at all. None. Ever. This is just pure fiction on your part. And I still don't know why you would care whether anyone here shops at Walmart, or not. Why would it make any difference to you at all?

You were upset I said Wilson is just a greedy bespoke audio company and went on about Walmart suppliers not making a living wage so I asked if you support Walmart.  What is so hard to understand?   If you think those ugly Wilson’s are worth upwards of 750K then good for you.

stereo5

@cleeds..............
My wife and I never shop at Walmart, do you?

Why would you care? What difference would it make to you, one way or another? Please explain.

@cleeds..............
My wife and I never shop at Walmart, do you?

Back when I had speakers I made sure guests were blindfolded so the issue of what the room looked like was never really an issue. But I can tell you this, there were a LOT of tweaks in that room, my friends. 

So you think manufacturers of expensive products are "greedy?" The argument could easily be made that the greediest manufacturers are those who make cheap, under-engineered products sold in places like Walmart.

Exactly so.

As for having a footprint on/in the world and the environment, the cheap blu ray players and such are among the worst. High end audio remains in service about 10x-15x longer than the cheap cd/dvd/etc players.

However, with it all going digital, this equation has changed.

Failures due to over complexity (the ever shifting digital) and format changes have pushed +$1k home theater receivers to being nearly in a garbage can, after a few years. (maybe 5-6-7 years, in some cases) We see 5-6-7 year old home theater processors being left by the wayside, even when their prices are reduced by a factor of 5 or 10 from the original retail. I exaggerate on this, but by so little.... that few will call me on it.

Manufacturers encourage complex designs that fail quick and charge insane prices for repairs, in order to kill repair viability and force new purchases. So their dedication to the environment can be seen to be pure publicity level lip service and in the real world ..to only to go as far as sucking hard on your wallet. At the cost of everything else.

This is the ethical garbage can that consumer level electronics like cell phones and computers, laptops, tvs, etc...all exist in.

If one saw the recycle and disposal end of the deal up front and personal... then they’d see that this is insanity -- and cannot continue.

Stop lights are only put in at the given intersection after maybe 4 people die at that location. We’ve only got one world and one environment, but the problem is, is that the human mind and body, right to the cellular and down at even the simple amoeba level, was designed, genetically, from the get go, to be reactive, not proactive.

As reaction can be autonomous, programmed, etc...,and is, by design. It might be said to be the very fabric of life and it’s expression. We each do it, a good few thousand times a day, one might say.

Proactive requires intelligence and intelligence/musing/etc is a very late and still simplistic addition to the idea of DNA and it’s expression (meaning: all that lives).

An important thing to understand is that your brain was designed for only very intermittent use of your so called intelligence. it was designed and runs in a way that conserves the use of mind and as it take energy to fire it up and run it. So it was designed to come on line only very seldom. That is what brain fade is many times all about. The shut down after a short run. It’s literally a normal part of the brain wiring and use routine.

The vast majority of your so called non sleeping conscious time, is actually spent in a powerful semi-hypnotic mentally disabled or mentally sedentary/stilled state. People like Elon Musk,etc.. are exceptions, ones where they manage to keep the brain fired up for longer than the norm (as part of their outlier package). Which has it’s own issues, as the mind and body are not designed for it.

stereo5

Wilson is just as greedy as the next bespoke audio company ...

So you think manufacturers of expensive products are "greedy?" The argument could easily be made that the greediest manufacturers are those who make cheap, under-engineered products sold in places like Walmart.

Sometime in the ‘90s, I think, I went to an audio shop in Silverdale, WA, across Puget Sound from Seattle, to audition a pair of small Thiel speakers. Also set up in the room were a pair of Wilson Grand Slams. As I was listening the owner escorted an older couple through the room on the way to another room. 

Here’s my memory of what followed.

The man stopped abruptly and sputtered, “What the hell are those things!”

Owner - “They’re Wilson Grand Slams, $72,000”

Old guy - “That’s ridiculous, I know you have to have something like that to impress customers but no one would actually buy those!”

Owner - “Well, in fact, we’ve sold 23 pair. The nearest other Wilson dealer is in California and with all the young high-tech guys pouring into Seattle with huge salaries they need some way to impress their friends. It’s great for us. The best part is that they also need the amps, turntables and other gear to go with the Wilsons.” 

The old guy walked on, still sputtering about the Grand Slams.

Willy Loman didn’t.

Every crowd has a silver lining. - PT Barnum

Willie Sutton knew where the money was! So does Wilson!

Nobody here complaining paying $200K for sex :-)

+1 for your smart wife.  It is good for the manufacturer to hear that the speakers are not pretty.  Perhaps in time, the manufacturers will get it.

When the Wilson rep was demoing the $200K whatever it was called with D'Agasinto (sp?) mono blocks (Dan as in the room). I thought the prices for the gear was a little insane for what I was hearing. It was really good with large scale but it was not the best thing I have heard.

The most uncomfortable part was when I was speaking with the Wilson rep (some VP) and my wife comes over to us and says to the Wilson rep, "Why are those speakers so ugly, they look like Darth Vadar". That comment did not go over too well.

@testpilot...…………………………………………..
"Chances are if you are paying $850k retail for a pair speakers, Wilson will probably waive the special paint up change to make you feel you got an excellent deal

No they will not.  Wilson is just as greedy as the next bespoke audio company.  You can bet your life there are no freebies given by them.

  boxer12

I'm really okay with someone else spending $27,500 on a paint job.

Exactly! Who cares about how other people spend their money? And I wouldn't expect others to care about how I spend mine.

Could we banish all that stuff to a vanity brand forum?

We can call that forum "Commies".

It's high time we admit that Wilson and a lot of other brands are vanity brands.  Performance is far down the list of priorities.  The silly prices are the appeal.  It's sort of sad when you think about it.  You find yourself in the top 0.1% and you've got nothing better to spend your money on than vanity products.  They're big, they're shiny, a bunch of poor people spent significant chunks of their lives making them look impressive.  I find that world completely uninteresting.  Could we banish all that stuff to a vanity brand forum?

It’s a good thing that they only decided on $27.5k...as some of their dealers were asking for ten times that amount, for the paint job that is~😬

As a person with a pedestrian Guards Red 991.2 RS, I would have gladly paid for PTS which was less than half the cost of paint on these speakers. I agree on the absurd, money grab price. 

I'm really okay with someone else spending $27,500 on a paint job.  

Garnet was actually my fave until the dealer decided to touch up all the nose paint chips from Mid Ohio, without shaking the paint..... there is a LOT of silver in Garnet....

@millercarbon you do know there is a difference between premium paint and paint to match a sample at Porsche.....

never the less, I am fine with Adventurine green, slate grey, Garnet, Zanzibar red and finally Zmexico blue... in that order

But come on man, $27,500 for a paint upgrade.

Apparently, there are a lot of rich people willing to pay for it otherwise they wouldn't have charged that kind of money in the first place. 

Don't fault Wilson for it.  Blame the money.